Unusual Engine transplant project...

[ik04]

Howdy All,

For reasons I cannot explain right now, I am planning an unusual engine swap.

I would like as much information from anyone who has experience with Ford trucks and transmissions. I have been unable to get any info from the usual Ford/Mercury forums.

I need information on the specs and dimensions for engine and transmission mounts and the usual compatibility issues with regard to squeezing a 7.3L Powerstroke Turbodiesel into a Panther platform car, probably a CVPI.

You may think I am crazy, and there are people who swear to that right now.... But I have my reasons and it could be a significant contribution to my future post-retirement business plans.

Besides, wouldn't a Marauder/CVPI with 700 lb/ft of torque be a crowd pleaser at the strip? (hint: YES!)

Kevin

[Rider90]

We recently did this transplant into a 72 Chevy, you're biggest problem will be the oil pan and the clearance of the tubocharger/piping in comparison to the firewall, among the heavy springs you'll need. IMHO may not be the best idea for an 03+ panther due to the aluminum front end - if anything, go older and take advantage of the steel components. It won't be close to dropping right in, and the trans hump will need modification. Fabrication will be required, and lots of it. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure if the steering components can handle the weight.

[Commodore Crap]

i saw a 95ish grand marquis with a v10 in it before. maybe try a google search.

[ckadiddle]

A CVPI you can use to drag race or pull stumps with. What a concept! :)

[Blackened300a]

Nice idea but thats quite a tall engine and VERY heavy. Even in a F250 its quite a tight squeeze with the turbo piping

[Donny Carlson]

you can do almost anything. This, well, this, is an uphill climb and I'm not sure when you get there you've really achieved anything.

It would seem to me the only way this could be done in any affordable fashion would be to drop a Panther body onto the frame of an F series with the engine and drivetrain already there. I'm not sure the steering column would line up (you'd use the F series steering column and box). Likely you'd have to modify the body to fit, adding space somewhere, or modify the frame. You'd still have 6 lug wheels underneath. And it would be heavy.

Seems like a lot of work and money when there are lesser expensive, proven workable alternatives.

[wchain]

FWIW, heres some food for thought. I dabble with PSDs on the side too.....

the 7.3L Block weighs 985 lbs...DRY, youre gonna need hellacious springs, and reinforcements to the Frame/Cradle area.
1. It will probably stick out over a foot from the engine bay
2. You're gonna need a MASSIVE radiator
3. Not sure if it will fit due to the location of the turbo
4. 94-97 PSDs that are non intercooled and have single pop injection are good for 235/425 hp/tq respectively. You'll need to intercool and add double pop units, and 4" exhaust
5. Will the 4R100 fit under a panther
6. 8.8" rear wont take that kind of torque that youre looking for. You'll need a 10.5 or Dana 80.

You may be better off finding a F250 donor and chopping it up, put the CV body on the frame, and then put some 24s on it.....

[Blackened300a]

Your best bet is to go with the Cummins B series thats found in the Dodge Ram. Its a more simple engine to work with and has more potential as far as performance. Plus you'll save a couple hundred lbs as well.

[BAD MERC]

Did anyone ever see the CVPI with the propane-fueled Triton V10 a few years back? It was in a magazine or something. It bolted right in.

[Drock96Marquis]

Will the 4R100 fit under a panther
I doubt it would fit in the tunnel, serious hacking would be needed. Goes without saying the #2 crossmember would have to be totally custom. An E40d (older verson of 4r100) can be used as well, but doesn't have the adaptive shift strategy.

I have a Dana 80 in my f-450, it is a beast of rear end. You will have to configure a totally new rear brake setup, as well as an e-brake setup. The Dana 8- trucks use a nifty ZF parking brake mounted on the rear fo trans, though it is a costly unit and again would not fit in the tunnel.


The frame will need to be beefed up to handle the torque, think of the Kenny Brown frame connectors as a guide to the larger setup you will need. The Frotn end will require significant hacking and extra support. I'm not sure what would be best to start with, an 03+ or a -02, perhaps a -02 to make the welding/fabrication part of it easier. You will probably end up having to o all custom frame rails from the cabin foward.

The oil sump alone on my F-450's PSD is about the size of a case of motor oil. The sump will be so low there will be serious ground clearance issues.

The turbo location will pose a problem, significant firewall modifications should be expected. The rear of the engine may have to come into the passenger compartment and dash some to try and have some weight balance. With that much weight upfront the car will handle like shyte for ever. Not too mention the routing of all the exhaust and intake tubes to the turbo location, the turbo can be mounted elsewhere to gain more clearance, though again this would be more fabrication.


As awesome as this could be, I highly advise against this project. In the end you will be left with a useless 7.3 engine and a hacked up panther. I'd stick with a modular, the v10 swap has been doen and is no where near the challenge you would have with a 7.3 install. A 5.4 DOHC swap would be pretty unique, don't think I've seen one yet, not too mention the 5.4 DOHC makes 355 tq at 2750rpms straight from the factory. Throw a S/C on there and that would be a sick panther!!!



i saw a 95ish grand marquis with a v10 in it before. maybe try a google search. yes, look at the pics I posted in this thread (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28638&highlight=5.4)


Did anyone ever see the CVPI with the propane-fueled Triton V10 a few years back? It was in a magazine or something. It bolted right in. not quite, but a pretty good fit :D
http://www.caranddriver.com/specialtyfiles/2279/propane-v-10-ford-crown-victoria-police-interceptor.html

[ik04]

FWIW, heres some food for thought. I dabble with PSDs on the side too.....

the 7.3L Block weighs 985 lbs...DRY, youre gonna need hellacious springs, and reinforcements to the Frame/Cradle area.

Yup, that's a show-stopper...


1. It will probably stick out over a foot from the engine bay
2. You're gonna need a MASSIVE radiator
3. Not sure if it will fit due to the location of the turbo

Ditto the above.


4. 94-97 PSDs that are non intercooled and have single pop injection are good for 235/425 hp/tq respectively. You'll need to intercool and add double pop units, and 4" exhaust

I was hoping for an unmodified engine/transmission that would make enough power and torque to motivate a bigass Panther body car. Is there an available engine that will be somewhere near the dimensions of a 4.6/5.2 modular? Perhaps a reasonably sized inline or V-6 from a small truck...


5. Will the 4R100 fit under a panther

I don't think the 6.0L and the 5R110W would be any smaller... They are pretty massive.


6. 8.8" rear wont take that kind of torque that youre looking for. You'll need a 10.5 or Dana 80.

Those torque numbers were just me having some fun... I don't really need high performance numbers. A decent power output and equal performance to a stock gas engine are what I am looking for. Gotta be diesel, though.

Thanks for the input. I see you have an SDL, too. I will get one of those soon also as a similar test car. I would like to have something close to the Mercedes-Benz in an American car, and a diesel-converted CV/GM/Town Car are the only close matches I can think of.

Perhaps the 6 cylinder from the W126 MBz might work. I was shoping for something stronger, but not the Cummins. Too noisy.

Thanks,

Kevin

[crouse]

A recent Dream Car Garage episode showed a guy England that stuffed a V12 Merlin aircraft engine into a 56 Chevy. Thought they said 3000 hp.

[ik04]

I just remembered the 1981 Town Car had an optional and very rare Steyr 2.5L 5-Cylinder Diesel...

Wonder wher they all ended up?

Hmmmmmm


Kevin

[JohnE]

Remember that you're working with a body-on-frame car. You can always raise the body for more room. It would look odd, but doable.

[ScottB]

I was hoping for an unmodified engine/transmission that would make enough power and torque to motivate a bigass Panther body car. Is there an available engine that will be somewhere near the dimensions of a 4.6/5.2 modular?

The FE series big blocks are much smaller than the modulars. They are even smaller than the Windsors, actually.

You could look into an aftermarket build of a SOHC 427 from either Shelby or Dove, or maybe find one already built; if lucky maybe find one with an aluminum block. You should be able to get 650-1000 streetable mild mannered horsepower, and that block should mate to the C6 or quite possibly the 4R100. Even if you don't go with a cammer, a nicely done 428CJ should give you the torque you want in the size you need. With nice cross-bolt mains at that. Good luck.

[Joe Walsh]

'FE' engines are not a cheap way to go for a Ford Big block...

Cast Iron 427s are rarer than hen's teeth, and the new Genesis blocks are not cheap.
A new Shelby aluminum block will run close to $5,500.:eek:

428CJ blocks are getting pretty rare as well.

I'd look at the '385' engine series...you can get a 460 block cheap and build a stout 514 Stroker, or buy one complete right out of the FRPP catalog.

[ScottB]

'FE' engines are not a cheap way to go for a Ford Big block...

Cast Iron 427s are rarer than hen's teeth, and the new Genesis blocks are not cheap.
A new Shelby aluminum block will run close to $5,500.:eek:

428CJ blocks are getting pretty rare as well.

I'd look at the '385' engine series...you can get a 460 block cheap and build a stout 514 Stroker, or buy one complete right out of the FRPP catalog.



Compared to stuffing a PS in there I think it is ;)

I would have mentioned the 385 but I believe they are pretty large.

[fairlane347]

'FE' engines are not a cheap way to go for a Ford Big block...

Cast Iron 427s are rarer than hen's teeth, and the new Genesis blocks are not cheap.
A new Shelby aluminum block will run close to $5,500.:eek:

428CJ blocks are getting pretty rare as well.

I'd look at the '385' engine series...you can get a 460 block cheap and build a stout 514 Stroker, or buy one complete right out of the FRPP catalog.

FE engines are all over for resonable price, the 427 and 428cj are more money. I just bought a FE, freshly rebuilt for $400. It even has 428cj adjustable valve train, that is worth the $$$ right there. I will build you a sweet FE for a good price. You can build 600+hp without having a crossbolted 427. The shelby stuff is too expensive, look for regular FE stuff, and build it up.:D