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View Full Version : 12.790 in 1/4



mensrea
05-21-2003, 09:09 AM
Last night my Kenny Brown Marauder S ran a 12.790 in the 1.4 in Indy... speed was 106.51. This was on street tires, can't wait to try the slicks on it. Check the gallery now for four slips.

MAD-3R
05-21-2003, 09:11 AM
HOT DAMN!!!

Long Live #3
05-21-2003, 09:41 AM
Mensrea:
I thought you said you were going to sell the car.

BODYMAN
05-21-2003, 09:57 AM
way to go Bill very nice#'s what was the temp and humidity outside? I keep getting very similar mph to what you have posted but my 60fts is were Iam losing time. leaving me w/ alot of low 13 passes

Todd

MMM2003
05-21-2003, 10:12 AM
Mensrea,

When is that special going to be aired on TV, featuring your MM-S?
Did I miss it, or is it still coming up. Thanks!

By the way, you got your Hot-Rod sold yet? I'd make an offer, but I'm afraid you might be offended. I'm cheap, you know!

Like 93Teal... said. Nice#'s. Wish you could have been at 'Da Grove, to give those TurboSS an run for the money.

mensrea
05-21-2003, 10:37 AM
I will get the official track conditions here shortly. Teal, how are you launching, 2000 seems to work best for this car, however that may be due to the torque converter... are you getting wheel spin? I am going to try my slicks again in two weeks, wonder if it will help.

I AM trying to sell the car; a little fun never hurts till itís sold... I have had some offers but nothing interesting (so keep em coming).

Autoweek hasn't updated us on the air date, hopefully it will be sometime in the next month, it's a great show, and the Marauder S rocket the road course and drag strip. Nice interview with Kenny.

prchrman
05-21-2003, 10:42 AM
for the speedy needy them is good #s...way to go....

kbmg
05-21-2003, 10:46 AM
The tentative air dates for the Kenny Brown Marauder S is on June 8, 2003.

89lxbill
05-21-2003, 11:52 AM
Cool deal. My buddy has his at Kenny Brown now getting the overhaul. Do you have the stall convertor in yours?

ilpimp
05-21-2003, 01:41 PM
hey bill, that's pretty sweet. you think i can drive it when i'm in chicago next week???

i found another article on your car, but it's in some other language, so it's pretty funny. http://www.auto1.hu/archivum/auto12003041709155314.html


who were you racing, cuz you kicked their a$$

Hemlock
05-21-2003, 02:39 PM
REALLY A STRONG PASS FOR STREET TIRES !!!

kbmg
05-21-2003, 02:58 PM
The editorial mentioned above was done by our friends at Auto 1 in Hungary. Very cool automotive enthusiast publication and e-zine.

I am a little bummed that you guys found this editorial. I really did not want mensrea to know that I took a side trip to Hungary before I went to the Pirelli media launch in Atlanta.

Also, just like Pirelli girls - 5 out of 5 Hungarian girls prefer a big HOT ROD over a Ferrari.

ilpimp
05-21-2003, 04:21 PM
is there any way that you can translate the article so that we can see what they said about the car, cuz i'm kinda interested

mensrea
05-21-2003, 05:33 PM
Ilpimp - of course you can drive it.... and one of my girl friends speaks Hungarian, let's see if she'll translate

89LXBILL - yep, PI Stallion baby!!!

kbmg - again with rubbing it in that my car and you have more fun than I do.... now stay out of my posts buddy!!!! (just kidding of course Brad)

CalipSSo
05-21-2003, 05:48 PM
Good run there menserea. 12.7 is awsome, especially when you ran that on street tires. Unbelievable.
It's too bad you couldn't make it to GLD. You would have gave those 12sec Impalas a good run.
Regards,

Effster
05-21-2003, 05:51 PM
cranking mensrea!!!......a side note,,106.5 mph is a 12.20 pass.get that thing hooked up and the et should come way down............good stuff

mensrea
05-21-2003, 05:57 PM
I am getting excited, I KNOW this thing has more in it...

Yep I can run with the cars at the Grove, but I also know there is a ten second twin turbo SS out there that could hand me my undies....... not to mention those damn sables.

TripleTransAm
05-21-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Effster
cranking mensrea!!!......a side note,,106.5 mph is a 12.20 pass.get that thing hooked up and the et should come way down............good stuff


Whoa, where did you get that 12.20 from 106.5 mph? I'm not calling you out on this, I'm just curious what you based this on. Normally, the mph to ET correlation is different for every engine depending on whether it's a high-RPM screamer or a low-RPM torquer, so I'm curious what you based the extrapolation from.

106.5 mph (ironically, my best mph from my WS6 back in 2000... 106.7 mph) correlates to low low 13s in an LS1-equipped 4th gen F-body (or a mere 13.4 if you're a lousy driver like myself). This is because the LS1 sacrifices a *little* bit of sub-1500 RPM torque for a flat curve practically all the way up to the 6200 RPM redline.... it pulls real hard at the top.

However, 106.5 mph in the low-end-torquey Tuned Port Injection motors of the late-80s-early-90s F-bodies would equate to low to mid 12s. When properly modded to this extent, they'd charge ultra-hard out of the box and eventually flatten out at the top end... they'd get most of their 1/4 mile pull fairly early in the run.

Effster
05-22-2003, 04:12 AM
look it up triple ,,,any speed calc tells you et to mph....btw....et to matching mph has nothing to do with what engine is installed.its more of how the car gets it to the ground and what loses are encountered from the chassis/drivetrain

jgc61sr2002
05-22-2003, 06:12 AM
mensrea - Very nice numbers,with street tires. John:D

TripleTransAm
05-22-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by Effster
look it up triple ,,,any speed calc tells you et to mph....btw....et to matching mph has nothing to do with what engine is installed.its more of how the car gets it to the ground and what loses are encountered from the chassis/drivetrain


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree somewhat. :D

The examples I gave were of two cars with practically identical chassis and suspension layouts (the 3rd and 4th generation GM F-bodies). You're absolutely correct that the efficiency and delivery of power has a big impact on 1/4 mile performance, but I hope you understand my point that an engine's powerband seems to have a big impact on the ET/MPH relationship as well. It's really visible in the 4th gen F-body when comparing the LT1 and LS1 versions with totally identical drivetrain and chassis.

I've used the calculators you're referring to, and they're a good estimate but they seem to have been optimized for older drivetrains, especially the motors with a torque curve characteristic of a carb'ed induction system.

Anyway, it's all bench racing anyway... :P
I'd love to be able to pull off a low 12 second pass with my WS6's 107.6 mph best. :D

Back to the subject of Mensrea's 106.5 mph, I will be the first to venture a guess that the resulting 12.79 ET matched with the 106.5 mph speed means the presence of a supercharger manages to address any softness in the stock MM's drivetrain in the low-mid RPM range (say, 2500-3500?) with a nice whallop of power. Am I close to the truth?

Effster
05-22-2003, 02:27 PM
triple TA,,his et is off the mark because of 2reasons. first would be the tires,,second being the sway bar in the front is more than likely hindering the weight tranfer to the rear tires.if he yanked out the front bar,and put in some 90/10 shocks,the transfer to the rear tires would be much improved thus providing a better et.which motor is what has nothing to do with it.the mph will always show the true horsepower,and the et would be how well the car itself works

kbmg
05-22-2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Effster
triple TA,,his et is off the mark because of 2reasons. first would be the tires,,second being the sway bar in the front is more than likely hindering the weight tranfer to the rear tires.if he yanked out the front bar,and put in some 90/10 shocks,the transfer to the rear tires would be much improved thus providing a better et.which motor is what has nothing to do with it.the mph will always show the true horsepower,and the et would be how well the car itself works


The old 90/10 philosophy on drag racing suspension set up is no longer effective. The old thinking was to allow the vehicle front end to rise quickly and stay there to promote as much weight transfer as possible to the rear wheels. This could be acheived by dedicating 10% of the valving to rebound forces and 90% to bump forces. The theory was that the massive amount of bump force would hold the front end up and maintain bite. Unfortunately, the nose in the air position traps huge volumes of air under the car and in no way whatsoever will ET times be improved. The old 90/10 philosphy no longer applies to contemporary performance cars or big sedans for that matter. In fact that 90/10 valving will not allow the rear suspension to properly unwind during launch and will further decrease ET times. Removing the front sway bar will do nothing other than create an improper balance in the car's weight transfer and impact roll vs. squat.

Just take a look at Jeg Caughlin's Pro Stock car next time your at an NHRA event or watching on TV. You will notice that the nose of the car rises very little and the rear squats very little. Weight transfer is still there in a big way, but you don't notice it as much. Also, too much weight transfer and the car won't even get off the line but rather feel like it is bogged down. Furthermore, the dynamics of the Marauder's rear suspension is very good. Weight transfer is not optimal but still very good and the balance of squat vs. roll is excellent due to the watts rear design.

I could go on for hours about the new philosophy of suspension tuning for drag racing applications, but I will spare you all. KONI shock absorbers is a pioneer in drag racing shocks and for those of you who are interested, I would check out what they have to say about the whole 90/10 theory. It will definately open your eyes to the new way of thinking and the new technology being used in professional drag racing today.

cyclone03
05-23-2003, 03:02 PM
kdmg
comparing a prostock car to a real door slamming STREET car is unfair.
As for removing the front swaybar or not,well,it all depends.
My car does not spin the tires off the line so my GUESS is that more wieght transfer wouldn't help my 1/4 mile time at all.Chassie tuning for more traction would be a waste of time.

Now lets add gears,chip and stat.Are the rear tires spinning now?I don't know I dont have that set up.
But....... if I did first thing I would do at the track is make sure I have every loose item out of the car to lighten it up,next I might REMOVE the spare the reason for this is to equalize the weight over the rear tires,next I would remove the links off the front swaybar, the reason for this is the swaybar HOLDS the front of the car down,makes it tight.By removing the bar the springs are allowed to release energy faster this helps the STRAIT line traction.
Now being the rearend has PARALLE control arms if we could make one end adjustable we could move the instant center and really plant the tires,only problem there is STREET tires don't like to be HIT that hard so now we need street drag radials.And it goes on and on.........................

Removing mass from the front of the car helps too.

You are correct about 90/10's being old school.But 90/10's can do great things for 60ft times and maybe 1/8 mile but they do suck on anythiing over about 90mph.A friend swapped from 90's to the then new adjustable drag Konis and lost in the 60 but picked up in the 1/4! When he would run 1/8 tracks he went back to 90's.

I would think that softening up the front a little,and freeing it up,would help some but the biggest gains would come from changing the rear suspention pick up points.
I'm talking DRAG RACING here not road work.

Effster
05-23-2003, 03:32 PM
thank you cyclone,,of course he wouldnt say anything about touching the front....it would be less handleing kits that they would sell

mensrea
05-25-2003, 09:21 PM
huh what, I am lost

ilpimp
05-25-2003, 09:49 PM
yah, they kind of lost me with all that technical stuff about cars. i'd rather just have the facts in lamon's terms, and preferably some diagrams.

mensrea
05-25-2003, 09:52 PM
Adam, what the hell are you doing on line at this time? Tim and I just got back from a weekend of fun in Wis, are you coming Tues?

ilpimp
05-25-2003, 09:55 PM
hopefully, i'm still in the middle of nowhere in southern illinois with my sister. we're gonna go to an old fashion auction tomorrow all day, woohoo. i hope i don't die. see probably tuesday. and what do you mean what am i doing online so late for, i have nothing better to do down here, might as well play online, why are you on???