OK, HOW do you install the Cooling Mod

[O's Fan Rich]

I understand (from somewhat reliable resources... told they were drinking at the time) that the Cooling Mod for the rear cylinders can be installed without removing the tranny or moving the engine.
Is this really so?
If so, can we/me get the details?
I'd like to do this and the tranny removal thing was stopping me for now....

[DEFYANT]

....subscribing.

[Breadfan]

I'm betting it helps to remove the wiper assembly/cowl piece to give more working room between the engine and firewall.

[DEFYANT]

I'm betting it helps to remove the wiper assembly/cowl piece to give more working room between the engine and firewall.


Check this out:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23693&highlight=wiper

I plan on it if I get this mod. It is too easy!

[Rider90]

Check this out:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23693&highlight=wiper

I plan on it if I get this mod. It is too easy!

Also see, http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28231&highlight=cowl

post #10 for pictures

[Dennis Reinhart]

I understand (from somewhat reliable resources... told they were drinking at the time) that the Cooling Mod for the rear cylinders can be installed without removing the tranny or moving the engine.
Is this really so?
If so, can we/me get the details?
I'd like to do this and the tranny removal thing was stopping me for now....

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10004&highlight=cooling+mod+importan t

[juno]

It is much easier with the tranny and or engine out. WIth the cowl out and the EGR system removed you may be able to get it if you can lay on the engine. I doubt it though. I will try to get pictures before I put the cowl back in with the Mod installed, but it won't be til after the weekend.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I would not even consider doing this with out the transmission out

[Zack]

I would not even consider doing this with out the transmission out

Come on Dennis, dont you want to sell some of these?
Although it can be done without removing anything, I prefer to remove the upper and lower intake.
I knock the plugs out from the bottom, than install everything from the top.
the intake removed makes it a breeze.
The Upper and lower intake can be removed as a unit.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Zack to each his own on a lift the trans is out in 35 min and access to both heads is a breeze, so to me that is why I said with the trans out this is what I do.

[teamrope]

I bought this at MV II and still havn't installed it. I will be watching this with intrest. :)

[KillJoy]

Zack to each his own on a lift the trans is out in 35 min and access to both heads is a breeze, so to me that is why I said with the trans out this is what I do.


But Dennis... getting the Transmission out isn't exactly a walk in the park.... especially for us do-it-yourself guys that do not have access to a lift.

Is it the better way.... yes.

KillJoy

[Bradley G]

Has this been proven to be any benifit, other than piece of mind?

[O's Fan Rich]

A BIG problem for me with removing the tranny, is then, since it's out, I'd have to get it rebuilt, add a TC, put a deep pan on it.... If I don't pull the tranny, I'd just do the cooling mod.
Knowing the way to do it without removing the trans will save me thousands!
I don't have cheesehead kinda money...

[SergntMac]

Has this been proven to be any benifit, other than piece of mind?There's a real helpful white paper from Jerry W. about the cooling system, overheating, and the basis for this mod. A link for that is right ^ there in post #6.

What kind of proof are you looking for?

[Bradley G]

Well, many people I have talked to claim it is not needed.
I'm not saying, "Don't do it" I would like to know if any measurable temps or flow is increased.
If so, by how much?
If this is a upgrade, due to lack of flow to the hot cylinders,
How much improvement does the cooling mod offer?
Come on Mac, You like stats and proof.

What kind of proof are you looking for?

[O's Fan Rich]

All I know is I like the concept and the agree with the basic premise. The cost is not that bad, I just wanna know the install without the trans being out...
Or I'll wait a while longer to do it.

[magindat]

Ok, I'm about to have G0DDAMM fit!

In another thread someone said start a new thread for the 'how-to'. So, another thread got started. We may not be smart but dammit we can follow directions.

Now this thread is another damm p!ss!n match. Would someone please just take 10 minutes and write a several step process?! We don't need micro-details, just some directions. My freakin GOD. I did my UD's with instructions form this site, I did my brakes with instructions from this site, throttle body, door speakers etc, etc. I, myself have written at least a dozen sets of steps for different odd things. Hell, I even designed a speaker box for FREE for one member! I have had supercharger and mod 'parties' at my place with my tools! Where's the love?! Juno posted step by step WITH PICTURES of the GT pump we did AT MY HOUSE!

WTF has happened to this site?!

I mean damm, we've even sent MONEY to help each other out! Why can't we get some freakin' instructions so we can all enjoy our cars longer without all this BS?!

Would someone please just come down from their tower for 10 minutes?!

Maybe I'll just figure it out myself and document it and only PM it to people who aren't high falutant *********$ on this site!!!!

Mary, delete me if you please. I feel better, now.

[DEFYANT]

Come on Mac, You like stats and proof.

+1

Yes. Considering your generous offer to run a complete test on Amazons ported intake with an unbiased opinion, why not run a complete unbiased test on Dennis' kit?

[O's Fan Rich]

Come on Dennis, dont you want to sell some of these?
Although it can be done without removing anything, I prefer to remove the upper and lower intake.
I knock the plugs out from the bottom, than install everything from the top.
the intake removed makes it a breeze.
The Upper and lower intake can be removed as a unit.

Wonder about doing it with the Eaton sitting there, Zack?
I agree the cowl and wiper assembly will need to come out ( BIG help with the Trilogy install.) and I wanna do some finish/detail work that will require it anyway.

If all else fails... I'll wait til Mom and Dad snowbird and take over the lift for awhile and do it all.... god help me.

[Bradley G]

Ok, I'm about to have G0DDAMM fit!

In another thread someone said start a new thread for the 'how-to'. So, another thread got started. We may not be smart but dammit we can follow directions.

Now this thread is another damm p!ss!n match. Would someone please just take 10 minutes and write a several step process?! We don't need micro-details, just some directions. My freakin GOD. I did my UD's with instructions form this site, I did my brakes with instructions from this site, throttle body, door speakers etc, etc. I, myself have written at least a dozen sets of steps for different odd things. Hell, I even designed a speaker box for FREE for one member! I have had supercharger and mod 'parties' at my place with my tools! Where's the love?! Juno posted step by step WITH PICTURES of the GT pump we did AT MY HOUSE!

WTF has happened to this site?!

I mean damm, we've even sent MONEY to help each other out! Why can't we get some freakin' instructions so we can all enjoy our cars longer without all this BS?!

Would someone please just come down from their tower for 10 minutes?!

Maybe I'll just figure it out myself and document it and only PM it to people who aren't high falutant *********$ on this site!!!!

Mary, delete me if you please. I feel better, now.

If thier is any merit to this mod, I'd consider doing it too.
I would like to know as much as I can about install procedures, tips, ect.
I have done similar mod research as you, I am greatfull for the collective.
I hope you did not get your undies all bunched, over LIL-ol-Me!:P

[Blackened300a]

Ok, I'm about to have G0DDAMM fit!

In another thread someone said start a new thread for the 'how-to'. So, another thread got started. We may not be smart but dammit we can follow directions.

Now this thread is another damm p!ss!n match. Would someone please just take 10 minutes and write a several step process?! We don't need micro-details, just some directions. My freakin GOD.
WTF has happened to this site?!
I mean damm, we've even sent MONEY to help each other out! Why can't we get some freakin' instructions so we can all enjoy our cars longer without all this BS?!
Would someone please just come down from their tower for 10 minutes?!
Maybe I'll just figure it out myself and document it and only PM it to people who aren't high falutant *********$ on this site!!!!.

Dude Im right here supporting you, I feel the exact same way I mean really is it that much to ask?? If you have a better way of installing this mod then please share.

[Breadfan]

I asked for the new thread to be created as a suggestion to not derail the teardown thread of MH350's engine by Zack.

Let's not derail this one.

Just some diy-ers here who could use some tips...nothing more.

By the way in case we have short memories this horse has been beaten before: http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25805&highlight

and here
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13741

More if you search "cooling mod"

Let's see some install tips at this point.

[Dennis Reinhart]

How to install the rear cooling Mod

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Here is how I install the rear cooling modification, I remove the transmission, and once the transmission is out the first thing we do is on the drivers side adjust by bending out the EGR tube, because as shown in the pictures it will hit the drivers tube, next drain the radiator, even though this is done there still will be water in both heads, so when you knock the large freeze plug out, you will get wet if not careful, after the freeze plug is out put a thin coat of RTV around the drivers cooling tube and o'ring twist and push the tube in the head, be careful not to roll the o'ring install the long 90 deg hose and the Ford clamp next go to the passenger head repeat the process its very clear with the pictures, before installing the transmission be sure to fill and pressure check the cooling system, Zack can tell you how he does it, this is how we do it here, this is normally done when we install a PI converter and or up grade the transmission, its easy to do if you have a lift, Zack pulls the intake. Have a good day :beer: :beer:


http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/COOLINGMOD.JPG.jpg


http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/COOLINGMOD1.JPG.jpg

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/COOLINGMODBOTHHEADS.JPG.jpg

[magindat]

Mr. Reinhart, as usual, you are the man. Thank you.

Zack, you're up...

[Zack]

Mr. Reinhart, as usual, you are the man. Thank you.

Zack, you're up...

What do you want me to say?
I take the intake manifold out and do it like that.
Everyone with a Trilogy will most likely have to do it from the bottom (or top if the wiper cowl is removed.
Bottom line, everyone needs to quit asking questions and go to the garage and either look at the car or just do it.
How do you think I learned?

[Zack]

Bottom line, everyone needs to quit asking questions and go to the garage and either look at the car or just do it.
How do you think I learned?


Amen brotha :beer: :banana: :rasta:

[Power Surge]

I did it the easy way..... with a 2V motor :D.

[O's Fan Rich]

What do you want me to say?
I take the intake manifold out and do it like that.
Everyone with a Trilogy will most likely have to do it from the bottom (or top if the wiper cowl is removed.
Bottom line, everyone needs to quit asking questions and go to the garage and either look at the car or just do it.
How do you think I learned?

You know, ever since you made your last big purchase..... you've been a real prick!:baaa: :baaa: :baaa: :baaa:

[Zack]

You know, ever since you made your last big purchase..... you've been a real prick!:baaa: :baaa: :baaa: :baaa:

Trilogy freakin' #132 put the pedal down and burn some gas with them tires air compressing power making Kool-aid drinking Supercharger kit!! Self installed with alot of help from MM.net.

Right from your sig.
Now go to the garage and see if this is within your scope of capability.

[Dennis Reinhart]

You know, ever since you made your last big purchase..... you've been a real prick!:baaa: :baaa: :baaa: :baaa:

one word MIDOL:lol:

[Breadfan]

Bottom line, everyone needs to quit asking questions and go to the garage and either look at the car or just do it.
How do you think I learned?


Amen brotha :beer: :banana: :rasta:

Haha did you just "Amen brotha" your own post?

[O's Fan Rich]

Trilogy freakin' #132 put the pedal down and burn some gas with them tires air compressing power making Kool-aid drinking Supercharger kit!! Self installed with alot of help from MM.net.

Right from your sig.
Now go to the garage and see if this is within your scope of capability.

Sheesh, Z... I finally get a chance to take a poke at a comment you made to another member, and right away you make it personal......:rolleyes:

Glad you like my sig though!!!

[Breadfan]

I think Zack did state what he does, that mixed with Dennis's pics and description should give folks an idea of what it will take. Pictures won't do the justice until you look at your car. Try reaching across the engine and staying in that position becuase it doesn't sound like a 15 minute job from up top...

Zack's response was only a few lines, after Dennis's long reply with pictures it's probably not unfair to expect folks to want more details - regardless of whether or not they need it. We feed off info...text and pictures are part of the food pyramid here. Don't think it's worth turning things personal over something so trivial huh?

I feel for those with extra things bolted to the manifold (i.e. a Trilogy blower) it's probably best to do the on-lift trans-out method unless you have some really good dexterity, patience, and small hands. Look at it this way, if you have trouble reaching the transmission dipstick then doing this work behind the heads with everything in place is gonna be a b****.

[O's Fan Rich]

Agreed..... I'll see if I can handle this task sometime.
If I can do it, anyone can do it.

[DEFYANT]

How do you get the freeze out plugs out with the transmission, blower and headers in place. If I do this, it will be with the cowl removed.

This may seem simple, but I've never installed or removed these plugs before.

[SergntMac]

+1

Yes. Considering your generous offer to run a complete test on Amazons ported intake with an unbiased opinion, why not run a complete unbiased test on Dennis' kit? Well, now you just being a wise-guy, Charlie, and it doesn't suit you IMHO.

My offer to Amazon was to lend a hand and help develop a possible mod for the Marauder. Amazon didn't take the offer. Meanwhile, I have done a full ported intake experiment with Zack, with full testing and reporting. IMHO, it's not a worthy mod on a heavy car, but Amazon's porting may have taken a different approach. What does that have to do with this cooling topic? I'm a cop, not a wrench. I know how to collect facts and report my observations, but I pay someone to change my oil.

What's there to test and report on here? Either you believe in proper cooling or you do not.

IMHO...Without this cross over pipe in the rear of the heads, there is no circulation of coolant over the 7 and 8 pistons. On my 3 Marauders, this area of the engine bay ran as much as 40 degrees hotter than the rest of the engine, which makes it candidate for detonation before the remaining cylinders. If and when the knock sensors located between the 6 and 7 piston detects detonation (you don't alwys hear it), the EEC pulls timing, fuel and spark, and the hottest of the cylinders will be the cylinders that continue detonating after the fact. I read and full understand Jerry W. discussion of the problem (see link in post 6), so much for the lab work.

In real time, I have seen the insides of three failed Marauder engines with piston top damage in cylinders 7 and 8 from running lean and detonation. I've seen other Ford product engines too, the pistons look a lot like the pisons we pulled from MH350s engine. Noticable and remarkable build-up of carbon deposits are present in 7 and 8 as well, and much more severe than the remaining cylinders. The powdered metal piston construction slowly breaks down, craters eat into the material and it breaks away in "slivers" until the piston top comes off. Hopefully this gets caught before any lateral damage occurs, but this is not usually the case. We got lucky with MH350's engine, very lucky.

Again, what's to test? Either you believe it, or you don't.

The only "stat" I can offer, is a cooler running engine with uniform burn rates between the cylinders. On my #1x MM, my temps are very stable at 180-185 degrees, whether I am on the highway at 85 MPH, or, or on a side street somewhere at 15 MPH. My #3 MM has yet to be modified, and my engine temps jump around between 190 and 210 degrees on the street, and 220 when cruising at 75 MPH. These are my facts from my Marauders, your results may vary.

Sometimes I don't understand y'all very much at all. Drama at the turn of a card...Geeze...

[Zack]

Sheesh, Z... I finally get a chance to take a poke at a comment you made to another member, and right away you make it personal......:rolleyes:

Glad you like my sig though!!!

I thought I said that to Rider90 :beer:

[O's Fan Rich]

I'm ok.... just having fun.
Besides, I have the face for radio, not drama.:cool4: :cool4:

[DEFYANT]

Well, now you just being a wise-guy, Charlie, and it doesn't suit you IMHO.

My offer to Amazon was to lend a hand and help develop a possible mod for the Marauder. Amazon didn't take the offer. Meanwhile, I have done a full ported intake experiment with Zack, with full testing and reporting. IMHO, it's not a worthy mod on a heavy car, but Amazon's porting may have taken a different approach. What does that have to do with this cooling topic? I'm a cop, not a wrench. I know how to collect facts and report my observations, but I pay someone to change my oil.

What's there to test and report on here? Either you believe in proper cooling or you do not.

IMHO...Without this cross over pipe in the rear of the heads, there is no circulation of coolant over the 7 and 8 pistons. On my 3 Marauders, this area of the engine bay ran as much as 40 degrees hotter than the rest of the engine, which makes it candidate for detonation before the remaining cylinders. If and when the knock sensors located between the 6 and 7 piston detects detonation (you don't alwys hear it), the EEC pulls timing, fuel and spark, and the hottest of the cylinders will be the cylinders that continue detonating after the fact. I read and full understand Jerry W. discussion of the problem (see link in post 6), so much for the lab work.

In real time, I have seen the insides of three failed Marauder engines with piston top damage in cylinders 7 and 8 from running lean and detonation. I've seen other Ford product engines too, the pistons look a lot like the pisons we pulled from MH350s engine. Noticable and remarkable build-up of carbon deposits are present in 7 and 8 as well, and much more severe than the remaining cylinders. The powdered metal piston construction slowly breaks down, craters eat into the material and it breaks away in "slivers" until the piston top comes off. Hopefully this gets caught before any lateral damage occurs, but this is not usually the case. We got lucky with MH350's engine, very lucky.

Again, what's to test? Either you believe it, or you don't.

The only "stat" I can offer, is a cooler running engine with uniform burn rates between the cylinders. On my #1x MM, my temps are very stable at 180-185 degrees, whether I am on the highway at 85 MPH, or, or on a side street somewhere at 15 MPH. My #3 MM has yet to be modified, and my engine temps jump around between 190 and 210 degrees on the street, and 220 when cruising at 75 MPH. These are my facts from my Marauders, your results may vary.

Sometimes I don't understand y'all very much at all. Drama at the turn of a card...Geeze...

It was just a suggestion Mac. You know if I do this I'll cobble together some thread detailing this and detailing that and posting results. I figured you'd be all over this. From what I've read in the past, you do not blindly "believe it or not". You want numbers and proof regardless of who posts the info.

To date the biggest impact on my cooling system has been the FRPP trans cooler (at your suggestion BTW). Both the engine and trans are noticably cooler.

[TooManyFords]

Just FYI, when my motor let go last year on the track, take a while stab in the dark which pistons disintegrated...

Yep, #7, #8 and #4. All of them in the prime spot where the heads get the hottest. I've done a lot of searching on other forums and it continues without fail to be these cylinders that go BOOM before all others.

Until someone builds two identical motors, one with the cooling mod and one without, and then runs them on engine dynoes until one fails, we will not know either way. But we're all pretty smart cookies on here. If the assemblies are balanced and the only other variable can be water flow, I would put my money on needing to cool the whole head and not just the front cylinders.

I just amazes me that Ford did not see this as a potential problem and fix it in the design stages. All the old pushrod motors had water crossovers in the intakes at the front and rear. Even the DOHC heads have plugs where a crossover -could- be installed but isn't.

I'll just close in saying that I feel much safer with this mod than without.

John

[O's Fan Rich]

I thought I said that to Rider90 :beer:

Yep... I tried but could not find it.... did a search for "prick", there seems to be alot of those.
Oh, and thanks for reminding me that I wanted to add picture to my sig.... it's done.

[SergntMac]

It was just a suggestion Mac. You know if I do this I'll cobble together some thread detailing this and detailing that and posting results. I figured you'd be all over this. From what I've read in the past, you do not blindly "believe it or not". You want numbers and proof regardless of who posts the info.

To date the biggest impact on my cooling system has been the FRPP trans cooler (at your suggestion BTW). Both the engine and trans are noticably cooler.Now I understand, Charlie, all is well my friend.

Maybe that's the underlying problem here? There is no real proof that it works, only indications of a chain of events in the pathology of failure. This is one of the reasons I bought MH350 used engine, to do the autopsy on a 100K stock Marauder engine.

In the end, it comes down to producing uniform combustion rates in all the cylinders, and lower engine temps that allow for more focused tuning. Since day one, Jerry W. and Dennis have preached to me that lowering engine temp improves tuning, which is also their rationale for the 180 stat and Denso plugs in a Stage I upgrade. That, and some folks think it's a new mod, when it's one of the oldest.

BTW, the "kit" is mostly Ford OEM parts from another 4V DOHC application. That tells me something, but if y'all don't believe in the theory behind this mod, by all means save your money. If your Marauder doesn't get pushed around hard, it's not really necessary.

[Rider90]

I thought I said that to Rider90 :beer:
Whoozit? Huh?

[O's Fan Rich]

Whoozit? Huh?

You don't remember that?:confused: :confused:
It just stuck in my head for some reason... nothing personal!

[Rider90]

I was just trying to help out by posting a link to a thread with some pictures in it of my cowl removed.

...Can't even help out without being dragged into something...:rolleyes:

[magindat]

What do you want me to say?
I take the intake manifold out and do it like that.
Everyone with a Trilogy will most likely have to do it from the bottom (or top if the wiper cowl is removed.
Bottom line, everyone needs to quit asking questions and go to the garage and either look at the car or just do it.
How do you think I learned?

Same way I learned to install a GT fuel pump, a half missing parts FIT supercharger, aux vacuum can, etc., but I don't hold back ANY of THAT info!!!

Simple situation is: I have one car to drive, and I'd like to get it right the first time. Thanx for your input.

In summary, it seems go from the top with either wiper cowl and\or intakes removed for clearance.

[magindat]

I was just trying to help out by posting a link to a thread with some pictures in it of my cowl removed.

...Can't even help out without being dragged into something...:rolleyes:

Hey Jason, I looked at your pics and thanks for posty and linky.

Do you think (after your experience with the vac lines) there's enough space there to do the rear coling mod? Even without removing the manifolds?

Thanx

[Rider90]

Hey Jason, I looked at your pics and thanks for posty and linky.

Do you think (after your experience with the vac lines) there's enough space there to do the rear coling mod? Even without removing the manifolds?

Thanx

From what I remember it was tight when you got close to the heads and the firewall. It was probably too small for my hands but I think if we have a user, one that takes his engines out as often as he ties his shoes, saying it can be done than so be it. Someway, it can be done. But it may be one of those situations where you get all frustated...any mechanic knows that moment...if I were doing it, I'd pull the trans out like DR suggested. It just sounds like a cleaner way of doing things, without question, and you'll learn more about the MM. Since this is your first time doing such a mod you may want everything laid out for you so you can see everything and ensure it is done right. If you had experience doing this mod, you know what feels right, but in this case you're new so I'd take it slow and basic. Indeed there is more labor involved, but I'd rather make sure its right the first time than go back in the second time because something wasn't done right.

[magindat]

From what I remember it was tight when you got close to the heads and the firewall. It was probably too small for my hands but I think if we have a user, one that takes his engines out as often as he ties his shoes, saying it can be done than so be it. Someway, it can be done. But it may be one of those situations where you get all frustated...any mechanic knows that moment...if I were doing it, I'd pull the trans out like DR suggested. It just sounds like a cleaner way of doing things, without question, and you'll learn more about the MM. Since this is your first time doing such a mod you may want everything laid out for you so you can see everything and ensure it is done right. If you had experience doing this mod, you know what feels right, but in this case you're new so I'd take it slow and basic. Indeed there is more labor involved, but I'd rather make sure its right the first time than go back in the second time because something wasn't done right.

Ed Zachary.

I plan to go to DR's for some trans work as soon as I can afford it anyways. However, I like to do as much work as I can myself, although I do reach that frustration point sometimes. Maybe DR will let me get my hands dirty and help!

Thanx J.

Rich

[KillJoy]

Maybe DR will let me get my hands dirty and help!

Sure he will ;)

Hourly Rates:

If you Sit in the Waiting Room - $50
If you Watch - $75
If you Assist - $150
If you DIY - $275

:D

KillJoy