LOUD enigine tapping noise!

[grimmace]

started her up this morning to go catch the train and have a horrible tapping noise coming form the enigine....gets louder and faster when i accelerate...sounds like a collapsed lifter to me but not sure....to the dealer i go...depressed...only good news is i have a few months left on the warranty...i guess i have to extend it now....sucks!

[rvaldez1]

I just got mine back from the dealer for a faulty cat, are you sure its from the motor.

[fastblackmerc]

We don't have lifters, we have followers. I'd check your oil level. Could also be a cracked exhaust manifold.

[grimmace]

i think so but not totally sure....i have remote start and soon as i came outside i knew something was wrong...I only drove it 3 miles...it sounds like metal on metal and gets faster and a little louder as you accelerate....i'll check the oil later tonight...i just had it changed at the dealer a few weeks ago...its was embarrassing just to drive it this morning....sounds like a 15 year old tired motor

[grampaws]

hows the oil pressure..spun bearing,cracked manifold or
popped spark plug-most likely.pull off spark plug covers
see if one of the plugs is really loose??!!
If this is the problem insist on the cylinder head being replaced.
other issues can occur if the cylinder head is only repaired..

[RoyLPita]

Keep us posted.

[SergntMac]

What used to be called a rocker arm on a pushrod engine is now called a follower, and they can snap off, it at least out of place. You wouldn't notice much of a performance hit, 'cause the second valve is working, but it could be bouncing around in there.

What used to be called a hydraulic lifter, is now called a valve lash adjuster, and the operate just like the pushrod lifters. Spring loaded and operated by engine oil, but they are pretty tough. Collapsing one on a stock engine would surprise me very much.

[ctrlraven]

I just hit how loud the fuel injectors are on mine cause I can't tell if its the valves tapping or the FI's still being loud. I did the old method of a long flat tipped screwdriver and put it all over the heads and didn't hear much but when I put it on or right near the FI's thats when I heard noise and even my local mechanic said its the FI's.

Hope nothing is majorly wrong with you car, defenitley get it checked out asap.

[JACook]

Coulda blown a spark plug outta the hole...

[grimmace]

service doesn' t have an answer for me yet although he did say "it doesn't sound good"....really?...thanks....he said they were looking to see if the tensioner needs to be tightened...that is what he "hoped" it was...i was hoping for just an answer with what was actually wrong...hopefully i'll get that in a few hours

[Rider90]

service doesn' t have an answer for me yet although he did say "it doesn't sound good"....really?...thanks....he said they were looking to see if the tensioner needs to be tightened...that is what he "hoped" it was...i was hoping for just an answer with what was actually wrong...hopefully i'll get that in a few hours
You can tighten a tensioner? ...

[grampaws]

If the tensioner is faulty, replacement should be the best and
only option..it should be considered a regular maintainence item.

[Rider90]

If the tensioner is faulty, replacement should be the best and
only option..it should be considered a regular maintainence item.
Yeah, I replaced mine. There was nothing wrong with it. I figured I was going through withdrawl, having installed the supercharger myself and now I have nothing to work on. It saved me some time down the road - that's what I keep telling myself :)

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

I had a broken spring on the left side of the engine on my Mark VIII. It sounded like that.

[grimmace]

update # 2....the noise is coming form the left side cylinder head and they are in the process of taking the valve covers off...the ca has been there all day since 7:30 this morning and they are first doing this....i hate dealers

[SergntMac]

Not to confuse this topic any more than it is now, the tensioners on our engines are crap. I've owned three Marauders now, and replaced one on each. I even upgraded to an 8-rib system using an older Cobra front timing cover and Cobra tensioner, and that tensioner broke in half, stranding Zack and Chris at the track. 275 bucks for the flat-bed home, too!

The OEM part is prolly another of Ford's cost cutting measures by farming out the "Job 1" to an independent source, who's lazy or inept, but who knows. I never heard any of them "tick", but if it's suspect, replace it. At least then you can rule out the tensioner as a source of any noise, prolly going to go bad someday anyway.

Back on track...Talking about engine noise can stimulate debate over symptoms, some folk suddenly hear something as a bad noise, when it's been that way since day one, and not drawing attention until the owner concentrates of it. Fuel rails do emit some minor noise when they pulse, and this noise can be magnafied as it telegraps into the cabin. However, if it's loud enough to be closer to a clickty-clack, and it's a new and different noise, something is wrong. Get it checked out.

[Dennis Reinhart]

started her up this morning to go catch the train and have a horrible tapping noise coming form the enigine....gets louder and faster when i accelerate...sounds like a collapsed lifter to me but not sure....to the dealer i go...depressed...only good news is i have a few months left on the warranty...i guess i have to extend it now....sucks!


It could be a carbon knock

[SergntMac]

It could be a carbon knockIndeed, this is very possible, which (in the past) has invited the advice..."Drive it like you stole it" in order to prevent it.

[grimmace]

i don't think this is carbon knock and it definitely is a new sound...it really sounds like something broke off internally and is getting smacked around...the dealer still didn't have an answer for me but he did say they were doing oil pressure tests and contemplating taking out the head...my question is should i just plant the seed for a new enigine now?...the last thing i want is a patched up motor about to have an expired warranty...maybe i can get ford to extend it for free

[grampaws]

Cracked piston??..New motor generally will be more
reliable..push for a New motor..Pulling the heads
is not a good sign..If the breakage is inside the cylinder
oil pressure test won't reveal much..compression test or
cylinder balance test or leakdown test would be more
inline..There are scopes that can look inside the plug holes
to see the damage without removing the heads.
called a borescope..
http://www.tooldiscounter.com/ItemDisplay.cfm?lookup=VISVO36-6H&source=froogle&kw=VISVO36-6H

[SergntMac]

it really sounds like something broke off internally and is getting smacked around...the dealer still didn't have an answer for me but he did say they were doing oil pressure tests and contemplating taking out the head...my question is should i just plant the seed for a new enigine now?...the last thing i want is a patched up motor about to have an expired warranty...maybe i can get ford to extend it for freeFirst, if it's that loud, you could have snapped a connecting rod. They are the weakest link in the bottom end, and the engine will run until it seizes. That really doesn't fit with your description of symptoms to this point, but it's still possible. Sorry I can't hear it from here.

Secondly, the chance of having a sick engine "patched up" is remote today. As my dealership parts and service guys have explained it to me, Ford has gone over to a "modular" service parts system.

Take the heads for example, if a valve/spring/cam ect. has failed, the entire head is replaced with a "loaded" assembly, and your old head goes back for reman. My parts guy says I cannot buy individual parts such as piston, con rod, ect., not from Ford anyway. Wrenches do not rebuild anything anymore, they just remove and replace assemblies.

If it's serious enough, you may get a whole crate engine to replace it. Saves Ford the cost of wrenching on failed parts. The replacement may be a remanned engine too, but this is fine with most folks, as long as it come with a warranty.

Some of y'all may disagree with what I'm posting here, but it's how things are working in my area. No one does much rebuilding of stuff anymore, it's all R&R. Sadly, the talent needed to rebuild is dying away.

[grampaws]

Agreed! These are very valid points..
New verses Reman..New is my preferred option.

[grimmace]

well turns out i had a bent rod so they are replacing the whole cylinder head assembly...i should have the car back in a day or two...how in the world does that happen...faulty from the start?...should i call ford and try to get the warranty extended...do you think the car will be ok once a cylinder head has been replaced?

[Bradley G]

Ford will probably replace with a longblock remanufactured.
The time frame may be a little longer than two days.
well turns out i had a bent rod so they are replacing the whole cylinder head assembly...i should have the car back in a day or two...how in the world does that happen...faulty from the start?...should i call ford and try to get the warranty extended...do you think the car will be ok once a cylinder head has been replaced?

[grimmace]

they actually said they had a new one that was meant for a navigator but its going in my car

[Fast4Door]

well turns out i had a bent rod so they are replacing the whole cylinder head assembly...i should have the car back in a day or two...how in the world does that happen...faulty from the start?...should i call ford and try to get the warranty extended...do you think the car will be ok once a cylinder head has been replaced?


I'm a bit confused. What rod is bent? I usually think connecting rod, but I don't see how replacing a cylinder head fixes that.

Can you elaborate, please?

Thanks.

[grimmace]

that was what the service advisor said to me...they are replacing the whole cylinder head and it is a loaded assembly....i did some research and these engines (at least on cobra's) apparently have a "silent recall" due to the condition....here is what i found...i actually called the number and this guy pat hoye actually answered....he wanted nothing to do with me...directed me to ford customer service

2003 Mustang Cobras Have Defective Engine Cylinder Heads
29 July 03

According to a Ford Motor Company memo, 2003 Ford Mustang Cobras may have defective engine cylinder heads. The memo noted that the Cobras may exhibit an unusual engine noise that is present at all temperature ranges during engine idle. The memo also states that the noise may be due to bad cylinder head valve guides in the left hand cylinder head. The noise may be heard at the rear of the left hand cylinder head, thought the left side exhaust or at the left front wheel of the vehicle.

If your 2003 Cobra Mustang exhibits this condition, Ford may replace the cylinder head and cam assembly. The replacement cylinder head part number is: 3R2Z-6049-GA. Owners are advised to have their vehicles inspected before the warranty period expires.

This is considered a "silent recall" where upon Ford may NOT notify owners of this condition. For more information, it is suggested that owners contact Pat Hoye (313) 248-8336 at Ford World Headquarters.

News obtained via BlueOvalNews.com

[ctrlraven]

According to a Ford Motor Company memo, 2003 Ford Mustang Cobras may have defective engine cylinder heads. The memo noted that the Cobras may exhibit an unusual engine noise that is present at all temperature ranges during engine idle. The memo also states that the noise may be due to bad cylinder head valve guides in the left hand cylinder head. The noise may be heard at the rear of the left hand cylinder head, thought the left side exhaust or at the left front wheel of the vehicle. Interesting, I have a loud noise coming from the back of the driver's head, just recently started. My uncle who has been an air plane and vehicle mechanic for about 30 yrs was talking to me last night telling me about a friend of his who repairs 2v,3v,4v ford mod motors only and he has been seeing a lot of the motors come in with around 60K on the clock and needing new valve guides and they should be replaced with brass or brozne, I can't remember I was half asleep. So as an early birthday present to myself I want to go buy a set of heads and have them worked on so if I have a problem with my oem heads I can just switch them out in a day and be back on my way. I was looking on www.KarKraft.com (http://www.KarKraft.com) and they have 96-98 heads and 99-01 heads, would either work for the MM?

[SergntMac]

I want to go buy a set of heads and have them worked on so if I have a problem with my oem heads I can just switch them out in a day and be back on my way. I was looking on www.KarKraft.com (http://www.KarKraft.com) and they have 96-98 heads and 99-01 heads, would either work for the MM?The combustion chamber on the older heads was different that today's head. The '03-'04 4V heads are all the same and very close in design to the FR500 head, as well as the GT Supercar 5.4V 4V head. Very close, a little touch up here and there, you have a kick azz head.

It's not going to be a simple swap out, it's not just replacing a blank head for head. There are no cam bearings, the cams wear on the journals directly. After some mileage, each cam is unique to it's girdle and journal, and you should not disrupt this relationship. The journals will be too large for a replacement cam, and you won't get a good tune on the car. You can line bore a fresh journal, but you'll need to update the specs for the cam.

You would be better off building a complete new head, with fresh cams, valves ect. And once you go that far, may as well just install them and enjoy your investment. Installing cam bearings is an option to you at build time, but it can be pricey.

[Dennis Reinhart]

that was what the service advisor said to me...they are replacing the whole cylinder head and it is a loaded assembly....i did some research and these engines (at least on cobra's) apparently have a "silent recall" due to the condition....here is what i found...i actually called the number and this guy pat hoye actually answered....he wanted nothing to do with me...directed me to ford customer service

2003 Mustang Cobras Have Defective Engine Cylinder Heads
29 July 03



According to a Ford Motor Company memo, 2003 Ford Mustang Cobras may have defective engine cylinder heads. The memo noted that the Cobras may exhibit an unusual engine noise that is present at all temperature ranges during engine idle. The memo also states that the noise may be due to bad cylinder head valve guides in the left hand cylinder head. The noise may be heard at the rear of the left hand cylinder head, thought the left side exhaust or at the left front wheel of the vehicle.

If your 2003 Cobra Mustang exhibits this condition, Ford may replace the cylinder head and cam assembly. The replacement cylinder head part number is: 3R2Z-6049-GA. Owners are advised to have their vehicles inspected before the warranty period expires.

This is considered a "silent recall" where upon Ford may NOT notify owners of this condition. For more information, it is suggested that owners contact Pat Hoye (313) 248-8336 at Ford World Headquarters.

News obtained via BlueOvalNews.com

I think you are confused, the TSB for the drivers head is because Ford had two different vendors making the right and left cylinder heads, and they sup[osidly have issues with the drivers head. That is why they only change the drivers side head and it was for ticking and or smoking, not rod knock, I can see no way the dealer can change out a single rod and have the car back to you in two days and I would never settle for this repair, all the rods should be changed and or checked, so you may mean the dealer is changing the head, I have no idea, but from your description it does not make sence.

[grimmace]

i just called again...he said it could be a bent VALVE (yesterday he said a rod) but its defintely the cylinder head...they don't take apart the heads because its a modular head so they aren't EXACTLY sure what is wrong with it but they are replacing it (his words)...they had to order a gasket so i won't get the car back until thursday now and no loaner...that will be a week they have the car already...yesterday they told me it would be ready possibly late tonight otherwise tomorrow morning...i already called ford customer service...they are obviously getting annoyed with me that i keep calling....every time I call i get a different story though...

[DeadVic]

I had an issue with a oil leaker (head) on a 2001 Expedition. They "fixed" it with a new head...blah blah. then it continued to leak after the fix. they eventually put a new motor in. (reman long block 5.4)

I went by the shop everyday on the way home. Never stopped in the customer service area, just walked right back to the bay my new Expedition was sitting, in pieces, in. (this was in 2002 and it had just 9500 miles on it). I talked with the tech every day and got the straight story from him direct. Then, I'd go in to the service manager and compain that another day had passed by without them touching my Expy. This went on for three or four days and they were really tired of me by the time they finished. I had to get the district rep on the phone in the service managers office to get resolution. They just kept up with BS excuses. I told them that if they didn't have it fixed by X date they would have to put it back together, as is, and I'd tow it to Detroit and park it at Ford world headquarters and spray paint my message all over it. they were not amused.

The point? These dealers have you over a barrel and know it. I decided to have some fun messing with them. it was amusing to me. Now, if it was the MM I would not be amused. But, an expy, who cares...

[grimmace]

final update....got the car back after a week and it seems fine...cylinder head was replaced...does anyone know the cheapest place to get a ford ESP?