This year is a wash

[Zack]

My car will not be on the road for an amount of time unknown.
Where do I start, you all know about my bad luck and helped me out which I am grateful for.
But my bad luck continues. I drove 3 hours to VT Engines to pick up my shortblock. Loaded it in the trunk and drove 3 hours home.
Long story short, they loaded the WRONG shortblock into my car.
Thet did drive to MY doorstep with the correct engine to their credit.
Got the engine assembled and running. VT puts a quiet engine together I must say.
Took it to the dyno where I spent 5 hours and $$$ for nothing, cause it was breaking up at the high rpm's. Didnt make crap for power and runs worse now than before.
The best part was watching the car run out of fuel above 5500rpm''s. Twin GT 40 pumps with 10 ga. wire all the way, 3/8 submersible fuel line in tank, -8 line, cpr rails, new fuel filter, AND BAP was connected for a short time and still ran out of fuel.
The rail pressure sensor showed lower than 39 psi above 4000 when the autometer gauge read 60+ throughout the whole pull.
The highest power # of the day was 501/464, 18lbs of boost! Ya think something is wrong?
At the end of the day, highest power # was 375/360. Nice huh?
Im closing the book on this car, for now. :puke:

[fastblackmerc]

Sorry to hear about the engine. Was looking forward to see the Kenne Bell on top of it.

[Hotrauder]

Zack, I am sorry my friend. I know that if anyone can make this work it is you and you will be brainstorming and back into this project quickly. Mac will be over shortly to give you a boot in the ass:D What do you think is happening? I know telling me is like opening up the window and shouting out into the back yard as my understand is limited and my experience non existant but I want to learn and you need to stay with this. So, what is the problem? Dennis

[martyo]

Zack: You know these things aren't easy. Hang in there. I am waiting on ya! :up:

[TooManyFords]

Was the 39 psi read from the datalogger via the OBDII port? If I had to guess, I would say it is a bad FRPS. As soon as my black box comes back I'll compare what my data logger says and what my AutoMeter says and let you know. I'm sure they should be the same.

I don't think you were running out of fuel. Again, I think the bad sensor was telling the computer you were and it was lying. Did the tuner think of swapping this for another when the descrepancy was discovered?

Just take a deep breath and hit it again this coming weekend.

John

[Zack]

Was the 39 psi read from the datalogger via the OBDII port? If I had to guess, I would say it is a bad FRPS. As soon as my black box comes back I'll compare what my data logger says and what my AutoMeter says and let you know. I'm sure they should be the same.

I don't think you were running out of fuel. Again, I think the bad sensor was telling the computer you were and it was lying. Did the tuner think of swapping this for another when the descrepancy was discovered?

Just take a deep breath and hit it again this coming weekend.

John
I have had this reading on more than one occasion, and the FRPS is brand new.

[ckadiddle]

I don't understand all the technical stuff, Zack, but you have my sympathies. You have had a long run of just plain bad luck. You are OVERdue for some good luck now.

[magindat]

I know this may sound elementary, but...

How 'bout trying a know good (read used) FRPS?

Twin GT pumps should be spraying fuel through the oil pan, but maybe a BAP might help. You're wired well for it.

Sorry bout the crappy luck.

All the best,
Rich

[snowbird]

Zack,

The rebuild and swap engine didn't went swiftly, the least we can say but if i understand correctly, it look like the last swap is OK as you state the engine "quiet" and idling ok. If the engine is indeed OK, a very important part is behind you. The worst is over.

I don't know much about the fuel but it look safely overrated so the answers must be in finding the right combinations of fine tuning or fine reading in your particular case. It might be hard to find but it will be probably minor in cost and all at the end.

Keep the spirit as you're almost there. A lot of time, the brain play with all the data in the subconscious (brain is a powerfull multitask !) and the answer come up the least expected. :)

A few beers will solve this !

[DEFYANT]

Well that sucks!

Hang in there man, it's all part of hot rodding. How sweet the victory will be when you get it running right.

[juno]

I understand the bad luck. Mine was stupidity, putting the motor in with a pilot bearing in the crank and damaging an ear on the block. Cost me a couple of weeks in delays. I put the motor in just before I had to leave town but I still have to do all the accessories, the turbo and the instruments, but I am on a forced break for about 7 weeks total, so in a few more weeks I will be rarin' to go.

The FRPS sounds like a possible culprit.
Is any timing being pulled automatically by a knock sensor or anything?
Did you do anything to the injectors?
Any A/F readings?
Have you tried contacting KB? I know it is not a stock kit for them, but they have a world of experience.

[TooManyFords]

A few beers will solve this !

Now THAT'S the way to think!! :up:

:D

[Raudermaster]

Zack, sorry to hear man :(. At least you got the engine IN though and the blower on, that was the hard part. Now you just gotta "tweak" it some. Just be patient, and check EVERYTHING, it could be something "foolish."

[Joe Walsh]

This sounds like a simple idea, but with all that ability to PUMP fuel:

You've got to SUCK the fuel from the tank.

Any chance your suction line is kinked, or the open end is pushed against the gas tank wall???

Kinda like a straw pushed down to the bottom of a cup....

[TooManyFords]

I would be concentrating on the discrepancy between the FRPS psi and the AutoMeter gauge psi.

But for the moment, let's assume the autometer gauge is faulty and we'll run with the FRPS as being accurate. (we all know autometer gauges can fail)

My question is not so much aimed at Zack, but in the construction of the pumps we use, and in this case, the GT pump. Some friends and I were sitting around the other night discussing the possible failure of a pump when two were run in parallel.

My question to the group was, "Is there a one-way check valve on the exit of a pump? IE: If one pump fails, will the other pump just push fuel back into the failed pump and back into the tank thus causing a motor to run lean?"

I know nothing about how these fuel pumps are made, but since I do know that if you open the gas cap that the fuel rail will depressurize thus sending fuel back into the tank through the pump the wrong way. So, there must be some sort of leak-back, no?

I just wonder if Zack migh be the victim of a broken fuel pump wire or bad pump as well? Are there aftermarket one-way check valves that could be built into the system to prevent a back flow if one dies?

John

[Zack]

The pumps were tested before the install.
I really dont like the twin pumps cause it doesnt really fit well in the Marauder tank.
Im gonna try a single GT 40 pump with a BAP.
That should be fine.

[MERCMAN]

Hey Meathead!! Washed up? Give us a break, a car is just a car BUT you have hit the lottery this year in your life. I am speaking of the Lovely Becky and your beautiful house in the Hoosier state. How much luck can one man have? Sit back and enjoy the things that really matter. The numbers will come and I am confident that you will find the problem, but until then, chill, have a beer, and thank the Heavens for what you do have :)

[SergntMac]

Way to go, Zack, keep on it. The answer will be something obviously stupid.

Y'all...Food for thought? I was with Zack for the marathon tune and disappointment. I followed the car up there and back, long drives both ways. The car was very healthy heading out, but not heading home.

My eyes tear over rich fuel mixtures and I cried all the way home. I also studied the engine as pull after pull continued on. It shows a quck shudder about 4000 RPM, and the results of that show in the dyno curves as the EEC reacts to it, about 4500 RPM. What this one bump is I have no clue, I'm not a mechanic or a tuner.

The way the car was behaving for the drive home when Zack nailed it, if it were 1970 again, I'd be going over my jets, floats, things in the carb and fuel system. It may show lean in the data, but I swear it acting like it's choking on fuel.

Just my.02C...

[cyclone03]

Mac you may have hit it on the head....

Wednesday night a friend of my daughters car was acting up.
Her Dad took it to the dealer (Hyundae,whatever) they gave him a long list of all the stuff that was wroung,carbon build up,dirty this,worn that of course not one of those things covered under the 10year 100k warranty.So me being the car guy I am I said bring it over.

Engine was running very rough,so I did what the old car guy in me does I started pulling the spark plugs.
#1 plug boot was arching to the head,not the wires.
#1 plug was of course covered in wet fuel,2,3,and4 where BLACK with soot looking very rich.
Check engine light was on too,one of the codes,thanks Auto Zone was O2 sensor LEAN.Thats right lean,but all the firing plugs are showing rich,why?
Because when 1 cylinder fails to fire the unburned O2 ends up going right on through showing LEAN.

Fixxed the boot,reinstalled plugs and it again ran as well as a Hyundae can,code cleared itself too.

So check the ignition,pull a plug and believe what they are telling you.
I have no dought the fuel system has all the good stuff,so on that end make sure its working.

[HwyCruiser]

The FRPS is referenced to vacuum/boost (injector delta), and the PCM feedback is probably filtered pretty heavily so the PID loop doesn't spaz. The autometer reads gauge pressure and probably isn't filtered at all.

[RCSignals]

Hey Meathead!! Washed up? Give us a break, a car is just a car BUT you have hit the lottery this year in your life. I am speaking of the Lovely Becky and your beautiful house in the Hoosier state. How much luck can one man have? Sit back and enjoy the things that really matter. The numbers will come and I am confident that you will find the problem, but until then, chill, have a beer, and thank the Heavens for what you do have :)


Zack, Listen to the man who wears red shoes.