MM vs 442

[Bradley G]

Ok, word is out at work, that I have a pretty fast car.
Might have something to do with the infrequent hole shots through the parking lot.
And bliping the blower as I near the building.
A couple of the compadres have high performance rides, One guy has an older Corvette 1994 bone stock, the other has a 2006 Charger R/T .
Niether of these guys, want any part of me and "The Mighty Merc"!
But thier are two others, I'm not so sure of.
The first is a Mercedes coupe, I'll have to catch the model next time I see it.He has not said anything yet about, lineing up.
But the last guy came out and asked me today, if I wanted to race him, in his Olds 442.
I did not ask any questions about his Olds, ie; year, mods ect.
I did not hesitate, to say, "absolutely"
I did mention, I prefer to do any racing at the track.
He quickly offered, his "private track" as a place we could test,
Technology VS. Old school muscle.
My car should run high twelves now, do I stand a chance against an Olds Cutlass 442? I'm assuming the 1970's version.
let's presume it is in stock trim.

[duhtroll]

If it's stock? I'll say you should win, and by a lot.

If it's stock.

[Hotrauder]

Ok, word is out at work, that I have a pretty fast car.
Might have something to do with the infrequent hole shots through the parking lot.
And bliping the blower as I near the building.
A couple of the compadres have high performance rides, One guy has an older Corvette 1994 bone stock, the other has a 2006 Charger R/T .
Niether of these guys, want any part of me and "The Mighty Merc"!
But thier are two others, I'm not so sure of.
The first is a Mercedes coupe, I'll have to catch the model next time I see it.He has not said anything yet about, lineing up.
But the last guy came out and asked me today, if I wanted to race him, in his Olds 442.
I did not ask any questions about his Olds, ie; year, mods ect.
I did not hesitate, to say, "absolutely"
I did mention, I prefer to do any racing at the track.
He quickly offered, his "private track" as a place we could test,
Technology VS. Old school muscle.
My car should run high twelves now, do I stand a chance against an Olds Cutlass 442? I'm assuming the 1970's version.
let's presume it is in stock trim.

Brad, lets presume he has no clue what you have. He is way WAY over his head. I would like to see his face while you play with him. Have fun. Dennis

[LILALLEYKATT]

Lets say he has a 70' W-30 with a 455 and it is street car that is dialed in with minimal mods....At best he should not be able to break into the 12's...My money is on you. Good luck!

[stevengerard]

even if it is a hardtop 1970 W-30 well tuned you should beat him, my MM is faster than my W-30 but from a dead start there is nothing like 455 ci worth of 500lbs/tq jamming you into the seat. But who knows what has been done to the engine. Even a moderately tweaked 442 would be slower than a blown MM but a heavily modified 455 in a car that weighs 400lbs less - watch out. My converible only weighs 3790lbs - I used to think that was a lot until I got the MM.

[glassman99]

I watched a stock (AMG) Mercedes S550 run mid twelves all night recently. He was about 60 years old and having a blast beating the Corvettes and most anything else that would race him.

[the_pack_rat]

The Trilogy gives you the upper hand ... you would take him easy.

Now ...

A N/A MM with a tune - 4.10's & some exhaust work vs a stock 1970 442 would be a pretty interesting race.

The 442 should come away as the victor ... but in reality, I think it would ultimately boil down to the person(s) behind the wheel of each. Reaction time - traction etc etc.

[LILALLEYKATT]

I have to agree with that off the line torque stuff as I reciently sold my 73 Trans Am 455 4spd and it would launch like all get out but would run out of breath by the end of the quarter.

[ctrlraven]

If you got drag radials I'd put them on. The 442 has balls and will show it off the line but we don't know how well his traction will be. Give yourself every upper hand you can and blow the doors off the 442. Let us know what happens.

[MarauderMark]

If nothing is done to the 442 you should win.we have one here at cecil that runs 10' and he claims it's stock with cams and headers and he runs slicks.Except for my MM now those were the baddess cars i've ever owned.yes i do admire the 442.:D

[JMan]

I watched a stock (AMG) Mercedes S550 run mid twelves all night recently. He was about 60 years old and having a blast beating the Corvettes and most anything else that would race him.

Ditto/\/\/\
We saw an AMG S55 run 12.5x all night at our private track event at Bradenton in April. No traction problems either due to the torque curve all Mercedes have. It's similar to the Ford 4.6l torque curve. It's all about top end with them.

J

[Bradley G]

Thanks for the replies!
I do recal several years ago, getting my clock cleaned, by a 442, driving a 1973 Mach I.
It would have been alot closer but the Stang had a 2barrel carb and single exhaust.
Besides the 90 Cubic inch advantage,the 442 had some serious exhaust work.
He walked on me like I was sitting still.
I'm ok, with getting beat, just wondering what to expect.

[bagpiper]

even if it is a hardtop 1970 W-30 well tuned you should beat him, my MM is faster than my W-30 but from a dead start there is nothing like 455 ci worth of 500lbs/tq jamming you into the seat. But who knows what has been done to the engine. Even a moderately tweaked 442 would be slower than a blown MM but a heavily modified 455 in a car that weighs 400lbs less - watch out. My converible only weighs 3790lbs - I used to think that was a lot until I got the MM.

Was your W-30, originaly painted ralley red.I know a 70 W-30 convertible from Mass that was sold to a guy in Florida who painted it Blue then sold to someone in your area.My friend owned that car since 1975 it sat in his dealership window for 25 years.

[GAMike]

A 70 442 W-30 Bone stock is a mid 13's qtr. mile car. If the owner has done anything to improve traction off the line, and has good launch technique, he might be able to shave it down to the low 13's. They say if you can launch a W-30 perfectly you will outrun a 70 LS-6 Chevelle SS 454 considered the quickest qtr. muscle car.

Most folks who have these though don't mess with them much. Too collectible to alter from stock.

Regards,

[Blackened300a]

Olds engine's are giant torque monsters, will most of its power downlow. Chances are he'll just spin off the line which will make it easy for you to leave him behind. If he does hook up, they are weak up top. This will be to your advantage to run him down.

You are S/Ced this shouldn't even be a issue of if you beat him or not, the question should be how far ahead of him you will be.

[the_pack_rat]

Thanks for the replies!
I do recal several years ago, getting my clock cleaned, by a 442, driving a 1973 Mach I.
It would have been alot closer but the Stang had a 2barrel carb and single exhaust.
.

That's kind of funny. I had a similar experience only it was a full-size Olds(moBuick) vs a full size Ford.

Years ago when working for the LM dealer we traded a 77 Buick Riviera. It was not un-common to find an Olds 403 4bbl in many of the 77-78 Rivi's as well as the 77-79 Electra/Park Avenue(had one of those too). 403's in the 77-79 LeSabres weren't as common - but occasionally you find one. Well this traded 77 Riv had the Olds 403. The 403 ran decent enough - but you could tell it was time for a basic tune up - carb cleaning & some tweaks.(choke adjustment - secondaries not opening). I snatched up that Rivi for something like $250.

At the time my daily driver was a 77 Cougar. Originally equipped with a 302 2bbl & a what I think was @ a 2.76 rear gear ... it now had a 79 351 2bbl Windsor with 3.25 Traction-Lok. The Rivi I believe had a 2.73 gear in it. When I went to bring the Rivi home, I brought a friend with me. I drove the Rivi home, he drove my Cougar.

We had a nice straight stretch of road when we left the dealer, so I started messing around & he took the bait. Well ... there was no competition.

Primaries only & out of tune ... that Riviera made made my Cougar look like it was standing still. Sure extra cubes ... but you would have thought the perfectly tuned Cougar with lower gearing would have put up a better fight.

I was never all that impressed with the mid to late 70's 302 & 351 Ford stuff. I think the original 307 4bbl & 2.14 gearing from my 84 Cutlass would have taken that 79 351W Cougar in all honesty.

A 79 Olds 350 4bbl vs a 79 351 W 2bbl ?. Probably almost as embarrasing as the 351W 2bbl going up against the 403.

Some day I'd like to take a 77-79 Olds 88 or 98 350 4bbl & go find a 77-79 Cougar/T-Bird/LTD II with the 351M or 400 2bbl, both cars having equal rear gearing, & see what would happen in a stoplight ... AHEM AHEM AHEM cough .... I mean private track race.

PS -

That Rivi did some bad azz donuts after a set of plugs/wires - cap/rotor & carburator tweaks.

[Big House]

Hand built AMG's of any number will run circles around pretty much anything. There is not much over "stock" that can be done to an AMG Benz. They are built from the ground up with the highest levels of performance in mind.


Ditto/\/\/\
We saw an AMG S55 run 12.5x all night at our private track event at Bradenton in April. No traction problems either due to the torque curve all Mercedes have. It's similar to the Ford 4.6l torque curve. It's all about top end with them.

J

[SergntMac]

No replacement for displacement...

But a blower helps.

[Smokey]

In 1973, I had a 1969 Olds 442 W32. Yes, that is no typo .. a W32. Very few built. It had the long stroke/small bore 400 CID engine with the ram air setup, TH400 auto, 3.90 posi with 14" redline Uniroyal Tiger Paws tires. I put a more radical factory cam in it. The best times I ever got at the track was 13.67 and that was with borrowed M/T cheeters slicks as we called them. That car launched hard off the line and was hard to keep from just lighting the Uniroyals, but the M/T did pretty good at the track. It shifted out at 6000 rpm which is kinda high for a BB Olds engine, but that was where the redline was on the factory tach. It was not until years after I sold that car that I discovered what a rarity I had. Oh well, you know what they say about hindsight. My other regret is I never had any pics of it.

[gpfarrell]

Well, you don't know what you're up against... but here's what we do know:

Any muscle car could have anything under the hood. They're worth big bucks today, but they've been owned by gearheads all along, so I'd be more surprised if it was stock than if it wasn't.

That being said... new cars run great because the technology keeps them consistent. Old cars always run great in legends, but reality is a bit more hit and miss.

You might win just because your stuff is well sorted out. Either way, it should be lots of fun!

[the_pack_rat]

W32 ... sweet !.

Often forgotten or completley un-heard of much like the W31 - W33 - W34 & W40.

However ... the less people that remember or know what a W41 is ... the better.

:puke:

Your car would have really screamed with a 1965-1967 short stroke 400.

[Bradley G]

Thanks for all the input.
Yeah, I did not know of all the various Head offerings, from Generous Motors.
Knowing this 442 owner, he's probably pushing 600+ RWHP:coolman:

[Paul T. Casey]

Thanks for all the input.
Yeah, I did not know of all the various Head offerings, from Generous Motors.
Knowing this 442 owner, he's probably pushing 600+ RWHP:coolman:

Well knowing that, I would suggest you run him for cash, and lots of it. No sense cluttering up your wallet/bank acct./mattress with the stuff. :rolleyes:

[JVJ]

My money will be on you.

[Bradley G]

These guys are always talking about, "Pinks" Some show about racing, wagering your title.
Just what I need!
A payment(s) on someone elses car.:stupid:
Well knowing that, I would suggest you run him for cash, and lots of it. No sense cluttering up your wallet/bank acct./mattress with the stuff. :rolleyes:

[Smokey]

"Your car would have really screamed with a 1965-1967 short stroke 400."

Actually I had a '65 442 about year before I got the '69. It had a 4 speed and 3.55 gears. It ran real good, but never got it below 14.13 in the 1/4. Not sure why, just never seemed to get it right when I ran at the track. Probably my lack of shifting skills. :)

[GreekGod]

Oldsmobiles have "Rocket-Fire" engines. Think about it man! The power of a rocket under the hood! ;)

[Bluerauder]

Trivia Question: Anyone remember what the 4-4-2 "stood for" ??

[MarauderMark]

Trivia Question: Anyone remember what the 4-4-2 "stood for" ??

455
4 speed
2 exhaust?

[Bluerauder]

455
4 speed
2 exhaust?

Real close Mark .... :D

[Bradley G]

I was thinking 400 cubes, 4 bbl carb, 2 pipes

[endless]

4 barrel 4 speed 2 pipes

[bagpiper]

4 barrel 4 speed 2 pipes

Thats correct,I have owned several.My friend owns a 70 w-31 cutlass that I would like to buy someday,should he ever sell.

[the_pack_rat]

In 1964, only a manual trans was available. The original 1964 442's were similar to our 03-04 MM's, as most of it's equippment was already there, & just needed to be taken off the shelf from the Oldsmobile "parts bin" so to speak.

What they basically did in the later part of 1964 is ... they took the 330 CID police version of the F85/Cutlass & beefed it up some for more power & better handling. The 442's had @ another 20 HP on the police spec 330's. The last minute rush in the later part of 1964 to do this ... was Oldsmobiles desire to compete with Pontiacs new GTO.

In 1964 ... the official definition of "442" was -

4 - Four barrel carb
4 - 4 speed trans
2 - Dual exhaust

In 1965 ... the official definition of "442" was -

4 - 400 cubic inch motor
(1st year for this motor & 1st year the automatic trans in the 442)
4 - Four barrel carb
2 - Dual Exhaust

There really wasn't much hype on the meaning of 442 in the years after that.

A commercial for the 1965 & 1966 442 can be found at this website -

http://www.teds-olds.com

Accessible once you click on the pics of the 65 & 66 442's.

[Bluerauder]

4 barrel 4 speed 2 pipes
Ding, Ding, Ding .... we have a winner !!! :D

4-4-2

4 barrel carbeurator
4 speed
Dual Exhaust

[Paul T. Casey]

Trivia Question: Anyone remember what the 4-4-2 "stood for" ??

4 Wheels
4 Tires
2 little to get into trouble.

[jerrym3]

Friend of mine bought one of the last Hurst Olds 442s W-30s (1973?) and immediately garaged it. Wonder if he still has it? If so, I wonder what that would bring at the BJ auction.

He also had a beautiful 67 442 hardtop, dark blue, 4 speed. Somebody slammed right into his trunk right outside his house. Should have totaled the car, but he could not pull the plug and had it repaired.

Needless to say, he was a certified Olds/442 nut. He even owned one of those very, very yellow rally 350s from the early 70s (?) and a Vista Cruiser station wagon with the slightly raised roof line and glass treatment.