Owed Nothing? [Archive] - MercuryMarauder.net Forums

DEFYANT

10-18-2006, 08:29 AM

This thread was inspired by Bradleys Representation thread. To me it seems to be getting abit off track - hijacked maybe.

Agent M79 made a good point on how things here have been run in the past. This really sums it up well:

Nuh uh. You are not 'entitled', you are not 'owed', and you have no 'right'. You give to this site knowing what it is. You give free of any stipulation, entitlement, or increased access (beyond the 'members only area'). You get the disticntion of being a contributor with the finish flag thing. That's it.

The information being requested can't be demanded or required to be given. We can only speculate as to why it isn't and simply remain curious about the genesis of the purchase. We are owed nothing.

How about not being ranted at and being told its my house if you dont like it leave? In the years I've been on this site, that line was never thrown my way. I've been thinking about that.

What if we did start to leave? We the customers would be gone and would not be supporting the vendors. Then the vendors would not be supporting the site. No members and no vendors = no site and loss of investment.

If we are guests in this house common courtesy and mutual respect is expected from the Admin. After all, we give you our money and contribute information to the data base that makes this site more valuable for you. Yes there are times when members will get out of line, that is what PMs are for. We've all pushed the limits once or twice.

Case in point: I recently posted something. A new site owner PM'd me detailing what he did not like in the post and requested I did not refer to the owners the way I did. I agreed and edited my own post and will never post the way I did. Not because I was "ordered", but because of mutual respect. He could have simply deleted my "joke" reference and slammed me.

Being told to basically "fnck off" isnt right. Especially since some of the new bosses have been on the recieving end of that stick when Logan ran the show.

What is your opinion?

Perhaps this is not a house, but a store. Where alot of business is done and money made. You are this sites customer.

If it is a "house" you are a guest (regarless of member status). How much BS until you decide to walk away?

What do you expect?

Dragcity

10-18-2006, 08:53 AM

Very good points.

I was on the front lines of customer service and management for 18 years.

I'm gonna' try to forget everything I read in that bad, bad thread...

DefyantExWife

10-18-2006, 08:59 AM

Where's the bad bad thread? I missed it.

kj31067

10-18-2006, 08:59 AM

right behind ya man.....i still contend to a certain degree that if you support this site monetarily, even if it s a drop in the bucket compared to yearly operating costs, you should get more than the old.." it s my ball and my yard " routine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if people dont like what they see and hear, they will stop giving and leave.
if people pop smoke, the owners will never see a return on their investment.....i dont think anyone will deny that ultimately the decision is theirs, but like i said in the other thread, it s not what was said, but HOW it was said ..........

whoskal

10-18-2006, 09:09 AM

I'm just gonna sit back and watch this one!!!

:popcorn::popcorn:

Agent M79

10-18-2006, 09:10 AM

Firstly, let me just congratulate myself on having said something that caused an entirely new thread to be kicked off. I don't beleive that has ever happened to me before.

That said, I am not sure it is an honor.

The things I said are my interpretation of the respresentations made to so far by the new owners. I don't read every thread and may have missed some things they have said. So do understand, what I said may not be reflective of the entire reality, just my perception of the parts of the reality I am privy too.

Also understand that there are evidently two topics that have been converged here (as I see it).

Topic 1: The backstory to MM.Net's transfer to the new ownership.
Topic 2: Mac's response in that other thread.

I think it is important to separate these two topics.

As to Topic 1, I am passively interested. I am not out to assign negative motive or attention to the transfer. I am simply curious.

As to Topic 2, I have no response. I give high regard to the things I read here that are of value (to me) and little regard to things of lesser value (to me) and it is rare that I respond to such.

I've had my slips, and things have rubbed me the wrong way, and my responses have been of equal or lesser value to what got me worked up in the first place. The net result of my participation in those few devolved threads was zip.

How much BS until you decide to walk away?

I think I can handle a lot. So long as I can skip threads, skip paragraphs, skip people, I am good. As long as there is good people and good info here, I will probably be here.

magindat

10-18-2006, 09:12 AM

I read the other post. I feel this way....

All this info is free for the taking. SOMEBODY paid to get it here and keep it here. Like most places on the web, vendor ads pay for a portion of the operating costs, therefore we (as internet surfers) are spoiled to free info.

Like the net at large, you have to sort through some unwanted crap and nonsense to get to your info. Small price to pay. The info was free. It's really no different here.

Until....
2 things happen:
1) Like 'shareware' you decide this resource is valuable enough to pay for. You pay. If this were shareware, your payment would entitle you to support. Analagously, I think contributing members should be looked upon with a little extra 'leeway'.
2) You become part of the 'family' or the 'collective'. You add your own info and experience to the collective. You feel you should help support 'the family'. See #1 above.

In either case, no one is ever obligated to support, however, that fact that we DO support typically carries us a little more 'clout' with the 'brass'. That's plenty for me.

Last but not least. While 9 good folks are now the owners, we, the contributing members hold a stake in this site. As such we should treat this site as if it were our own. After all, we did buy into it! You didn't buy your Marauder and trash it. Why would you buy into it's most valuable resource and trash it? DUH?!

As I have always said (and did myself), if you find the info here valuable, help keep it alive and contribute. Doesn't have to be much, but many little bits do add up.

Bluerauder

10-18-2006, 09:14 AM

How about not being ranted at and being told its my house if you dont like it leave? In the years I've been on this site, that line was never thrown my way. I've been thinking about that.

I agree and I've been thinking about that too since that post !!! Respect is a two way street. If I step out of line, I expect to be called on it. But that hasn't happened yet to me. The post in question seemed a little over the top and full of 'tude for me. That's something that I didn't expect and haven't seen here very often. :(

magindat

10-18-2006, 09:16 AM

Not up for debate or flames....

Of the voters, wonder if 'owed nothing' are non-contributing and 'owed respect' are contributing?

Just a thought, though I'm sure we'll never know.

Breadfan

10-18-2006, 09:20 AM

In this case I think it boils down to very simple terms regarding the role of an "owner." The new owners are just that - they own the site, they purchased it, and they can do with it as they wish. That's the "black and white" version - it's what it is.

Do our donations change that? Really, they do not. We made donations, we did not purchase shares of the site, we're maybe stakeholders, but not shareholders. So in essence, as contributing members we do not become part-owners, but we do reinforce our role as stakeholders. Stakeholders can be a broad role in itself, ranging in definition from a simple user to a customer, etc.

Now, the owners of the site essentially have the rights to do with as they please for what they own.

However, from a leadership/management position as they are now in, those choices will directly drive the direction of this site, so those choices become important for that reason.

The choices on how things are managed, handled, presented, etc., are important choices and ones that must consider the community as a whole, not just the wishes of a few. I'm sure the new owners understand that and recognize their new positions of leadership and site management.

But just like any leadership or management role, the answers to the choices will dictate many things for the community such as morale, growth, activity, etc.

Incorrect choices, or mis-spoken words, could work against the community and produce alienation, discontent, and lack of growth, bad blood, and closing doors.

On that note, my answer the to above question - we are owed something. What are we owed might be the question, I certainly don't expect money, gifts, or riches, but respect as a community member is one obvious one that comes to mind. As a community we are certainly "owed" something by the owners of the site, for it is the community here that makes MercuryMarauder.net. Remove us and you have a .net address, logo, and empty vBulliten forum.

We're not here to get rich, collect dividends, or any of the such, but as a community and foundation of the knowledgebase here we are certainly owed a place to further grow and promote the community-feel and Mercury-Marauder-Know-How that got this site where it is today.

I present my thoughts simply as discussion. I hope this thread stays in that direction, let's discuss, and certainly not breed "bad blood."

Thanks

DEFYANT

10-18-2006, 09:24 AM

I hope this thread stays in that direction, let's discuss, and certainly not breed "bad blood."

Thanks

+1. That is the intent here bud.

Breadfan

10-18-2006, 09:25 AM

+1. That is the intent here bud.

I was probably +1 to you then too, I agree I saw that as your intent as well. :)

Cheers bud :beer:

The discussion points are certainly there, I think I already edited my above post 3 times.

Agent M79

10-18-2006, 09:47 AM

Should respectful people be respected? Yes.

Does the fact that we have contributed cash, information, time, or friendly participation entitle us to an 'inside look' or access to information that technically is none of our business? No. It was a private transaction.

The concept that the contribution entitles one to a buddy-buddy nudge-nudge situation, that 'inside track' idea, is social thing, not a technical requirement. In the real world, this is largely what happens and I think that's where the expectation is built that that would be a universal truth. We rail when situations exist, like this one, where it is not.

I have contributed in the past. I have more than supported events through the raffles. I have 'behaved' myself here and contributed what I could. I don't beleive I have ever had a thread closed and I have never been banned. I suppose I have been a 'model' member.

And yet, though I am curious, I don't feel like I am owed the backstory.

Things have gotten pretty rough here in the past. The Darkside stuff, sometime's Logan's attention would flag for a while and things would degrade and get kinda creepy. This situation, by no means, comes close to representing 'the beginning of the end.'

Heh. Minus the 'representation' thread and this one, you'd not notice the difference.

KillJoy

10-18-2006, 10:04 AM

What / Where is the previous Thread that is quoted in the ifrst post of this one?

I missed it, and am at a loss here.....

KillJoy

DEFYANT

10-18-2006, 10:08 AM

I know I should have included a link. Here is the other thread (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30998)

duhtroll

10-18-2006, 10:13 AM

I have a difficult time feeling entitled to anything here. I have gained more knowledge than I could possibly pay for on this site.

All for free.

I ain't complainin'. If the people who ponied up the dough say something goes, I could make a suggestion if I thought it was in peoples' best interests. Either way it's not my decision.

I run the decision-making process for too many people on a daily basis. Here's thanks for people who are willing to do this part for me. :beer:

I think everyone is owed a modicum of respect, regardless of whether or not they gave money to the site, but I can't order anyone to do anything. If you don't treat people with respect, then it's basically your problem whether or not you're in charge.

cruzer

10-18-2006, 10:25 AM

I have refrained from commenting on either thread--I have an itch I've got to scratch. I've been around the block and exercised "executive priveledge" many times. "Executive priviledge", as I have seen it practiced, gives those in positions of power---earned or bought--- the right to make a decision based on their personal experience, knowledge or political or financial power--kinda like when Mom told you , when you asked "Why????" "Because I said so ". The Administrators are not only executives, they are the owners--They should be able to make make executive decisions---we can ask "why" but they don't have to give a reason. That is a fact of life--live with it.
Now, as to how the transition was handled---you only have to look at the 2 threads that have resulted--NOBODY seems to agree on all points---this is normal---this was a private business transaction---if it had been thrown open for discussion, I am sure the site would have been long gone before any workable consensus could have been reached--and Logan would probably have lost his temper--so would I have. The "Administrators/Owners" were probably asked to give advice and in the process, made an offer---of THEIR time and money---which was accepted without having to get into a donny-brook on the site--the administration of a very large web site is not for the weak. The administrators/owners are a very representative cross-section of our membership--from the highly opinionated to the " I'm just along for the ride" people--that's what makes our group unique.
As far as "contributing"--that is up to you--there are those of us that feel that this site is worth a million for the friendship, comradiery and knowledge that it makes available and are happy to "contribute"--not "buy" in order to keep it functional and viable---we expect nothing in return. The " Members only section"was set up to provide those who have a sincere and constructive question or suggestion , a place to discuss it without being harrassed by those who are not interested in keeping this site viable--just want the benefits without inconveniencing themselves---sounds like a real life situation. Figure it out--look at ANY organization--there are the doers and the watchers---which are you?????
I'm through---I leave it like it is---just an old man's opinion. I love you folks---every one of you--you are a big part of my life---let's play nice, Maury

KillJoy

10-18-2006, 10:37 AM

KillJoy's Thought -

No matter what the website, or who owned it, or why it was there, I have NEVER liked the "it's my house, my rules.

If anything, I view MM.Net as a Community Center, everyone's house. ;)

KillJoy

Breadfan

10-18-2006, 10:41 AM

I agree with cruzer in that there is Executive Decision - as I posted earlier the new owners have assumed the role as both owners and leaders - as such they certainly hold the power for Executive Decision to smooth things out, and keep things running when not all agree.

In the end their decision is final. That is that, and we as a community should fully respect that.

However at the same time the choices and Executive Decisions on a whole will add up to furthering the growth of the community and the common good.

The chioces behind the executive decisions though, are what will drive the growth overall.

I personally do view this as their house, I think what should be considered is the "Welcome" mat and that it stays there or gets bigger, not that it gets smaller and the doors lock.

Agent M79

10-18-2006, 11:29 AM

This here POST (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=431950#post43 1950) goes a little further down the road of the how/why the transition took place. I appreciate the added detail.

Paul T. Casey

10-18-2006, 12:53 PM

hitchhiker

10-18-2006, 01:09 PM

I'm just gonna sit back and watch this one!!!

:popcorn::popcorn:

If it were not for the admins/moderators this site would devolve into the name calling, rock throwing, wanna-be kind of site that is CVN and CV NET.

We are far more than a bunch of LEO wanna-bees driving rusted out CVPI's and picking fights with anyone new who comes our way.

We own and appreciate a very special edition Panther vehicle and its classic predecessors here.

We welcome and appreciate new Marauder fans.

Long live the Marauder!

If it ain't a Marauder, well then it just ain't!

Thanks to Logan and the new admins this site is one we can be proud to call home.

Regards,

Dave

:D

LordVader

10-18-2006, 01:23 PM

EVERYONE on this site is my friend. This includes the owners, people I've met, people I don't know, and people with whom I don't agree with. Being my friends, I don't feel that anyone of them owes me anything. Probably the other way around.
^^^ Same goes for me, except I haven't had the opportunity to meet anyone yet, but darn it someday I will!!!

bigslim

10-18-2006, 01:54 PM

I hope this doesn't get taken the wrong way and I don't want to start any flame wars here but I have a couple of questions.

How was it that this group was the one that bought the site? Was it offered to anyone else? Did anyone express interest in this site? It is something that I have been wondering since the sale of this site.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad that the site is still going on. I hope to be able to use this site for as along as I own my car. Thank you to the new owners for taking it over but please can someone answer my questions. Thank You.

prchrman

10-18-2006, 02:07 PM

Mad4Macs

10-18-2006, 03:28 PM

I liked how Logan ran the site. His ball, his show, don't like it? Go away.
And I, for one, welcome our new Iron Fisted OverLord Masters
:lol:

hitchhiker

10-18-2006, 03:36 PM

I liked how Logan ran the site. His ball, his show, don't like it? Go away.
And I, for one, welcome our new Iron Fisted OverLord Masters
:lol:

I like it too and I even got banned a couple of times!

:D

Bill Lalk

10-18-2006, 03:49 PM

So, how does one become a "contibuting member"?

KillJoy

10-18-2006, 03:55 PM

So, how does one become a "contibuting member"?

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/payments.php

KillJoy

Marauderman

10-18-2006, 04:38 PM

To all those who bought this site and are now running it...THANKS...and I really mean it...I could not care less about how you purchased this site...who gives a rat corpse about how it happened...good grief...I think the site is well ran...in the past and now...if it ain't oil, it's super chargers, or timeslips, or who and how the site was purchased...the truth is that this is a site for enjoyment and information...and remember we are members of this board...not board members...willie, a happy member

Somehow , I feel my screen name is approiate for saying the following--
It''s all about the Marauder..man!

Thanks Prchrman (Willie) About time! It seem it took my friend here to put it back where it really is---

Folks--WE "are members of this board"-- and as such--when you first joined whether you realized it or not--you knew you were "joining" a venture that had rules---wheather knowling or unknowlingly--cause its a given--just like any other situation in life--surely you all didn't expect a free for all with no rules--we don't live in such a life style---ok

So continue to abide by the continued rules as originally said many times over here--be polite , nice and share car info ---thats IT!

Did anyone care how Logan got started or how much $$ it took and wheather he had associate investors hiding in the back??..no--so forgettabout it!! After all--you may not want like what it takes or would take of your time to maintain or keep this site up of your time---so enjoy it... Have fun and carry on with the best club ever!! Tom

Pat

10-18-2006, 04:53 PM

OK, OK I'm in tears, I sent in my subcription, please let the beating stop, really, my morale has improved. :D

:lol:

OK Bill it's your turn.

Pat, (you bloody well can't do that, I have a flag)

DEFYANT

10-18-2006, 05:04 PM

:hijack:

Gents, this thread has nothing to do with the acquisition of this site or any of the new owners.

If, after reading the recent posts, you wish to post a question along those lines, please do so in a PM to one of the nine or make a new thread. My friends, this is not the place.

Thanks.

Mad4Macs

10-18-2006, 05:17 PM

Bill Lalk

10-18-2006, 05:19 PM

Sorry, I'm still learning the rules.

bigslim

10-18-2006, 05:44 PM

kj31067

10-18-2006, 06:41 PM

i guess this has run it s course. i think when this started with the initial question of how the new 9 were picked, there were a lot of question marks in a lot of members heads...i dont think for a second that anyone meant any kind of trickery or deception in finding out why and how this site was transferred, which is contrary to macs reply.. i think it was just a curiosity thing ..but the fact still remains a couple of members got semi- flogged for asking around a little. hey, you 9 paid the cash, its your deal.. no , we dont have the right to know what the rationale was for the decisions that were made, but i guess a few (including myself) were under the misimpression that being contributing members should afford us a little history into the decisions that were made...our bad...you live and you learn....bottom line is this.......this family, like all families,
has it s ups and downs and at the end of the day..........guess what? yep , it is still a family of tire smokin" marauder lovers..
goodnite all....................

Donny Carlson

10-18-2006, 07:08 PM

I have no personal inside information, so this is all speculation.

I assumed it was like this:

Life goes on, Logan has interests elsewhere. Mary had been running the site for Logan, who checked in whenever he was at home or had time to spare. Logan reached a point when he decided that the burdens of this web site were no longer worth it for him personally, and decided to pull the plug. He communicates this to Mary, who passes this information on to her Marauder owner circle of friends. They discuss what it would take to save the board (conversations with Logan by Mary may have developed some scenarios that would save the board), and they commit in whatever way they need (financial) to meet the terms of a sale of the board. They have to come up with a certain amount by a certain date. They are successful, board ownership is transferred.

I never got the impression that Logan was shopping the site for sale to anyone. He had decided to close up shop, and that was that. The new owners were able to convince him to sell rather than close, and they met his terms.

Under new ownership. Happens all the time. Sometimes it improves, sometimes not.

Again, this is pulled out of my butt, however, I think it's reasonable close to what really happened.

MikesMerc

10-18-2006, 07:39 PM

How about not being ranted at and being told its my house if you dont like it leave? In the years I've been on this site, that line was never thrown my way. I've been thinking about that.

Being told to basically "fnck off" isnt right. Especially since some of the new bosses have been on the recieving end of that stick when Logan ran the show.

What is your opinion?

I've done a good job trying to stay quiet on this issue, but since it has come this far already, I'll add my thoughts...as Charlie asked for.

In a nutshell, I am completely appalled at Mac's rant. If the new owners don't wish to talk about the details, they certainly don't have to. However, berating the members who have questions about it doesn't sound like a successful strategy to me.

I contributed some $$$ for the first time to this site only a few nights ago when Mary asked. I want mm.net to continue so, regardless of my own personal hesitations about the new "regime", I ponied up at a time I thought the site might need it most.

No more than 10 minutes after making my donation I read Mac ranting and berating everyone who voiced a question about the ownship change. If I had known the ownership was going to take a zero tolerance policy on the subject to the point of personally flaming anyone who asked about the change, to be brutally honest, I would have never contributed a dime.

Don't misunderstand me. The new ownership is under no obligation to explain anything. I think we all understand that. But blasting those who have questions isn't the way you handle a "no comment" situation. I'm deeply disappointed thus far. Not that that matters as I know I'll be shown the door if I don't like it.

I never got the impression that Logan was shopping the site for sale to anyone. He had decided to close up shop, and that was that. The new owners were able to convince him to sell rather than close, and they met his terms.

Just for the record, and for those unwilling or too afraid to say what they know, there were actually other offers on the table. Ultimately it was Logan's choice to make and he made it. Its over now. Time to move on.

BruteForce

10-18-2006, 07:47 PM

Maybe I'm missing something but I'm not seeing any reason for all the pantie twisting going on here. Management has changed hands. The rules we've implicitly agreed to haven't. If you're all sweaty 'cause you're not getting the answers you think you deserve, maybe that's 'cause it ain't none of your business?

Now if you folks had paid this much attention when GWB was rattling his sabre... oh wait... can't go there. :P

CRUZTAKER

10-18-2006, 07:50 PM

Just for the record, and for those unwilling or too afraid to say what they know, there were actually other offers on the table. Ultimately it was Logan's choice to make and he made it. Its over now. Time to move on.

Kudos! :up:

And I embrace you, too, our new Iron Fisted OverLord Master

:baaa:

Charlie does indeed scare me.:P

I voted as well.;)

Mad4Macs

10-18-2006, 08:10 PM

Now if you folks had paid this much attention when GWB was rattling his sabre... oh wait... can't go there. :P

I did, and I have 7 years in the Navy, and I still think he was right.
Now, why don't we get our butts into stopping a genocide in Africa???:confused:
Oh, and for those of you who "won't" step up to save a life of a human being, 'jus cuz your party doesn't support it" or they've cuz they got the wrong colored skin, I don't mean you, and I don't want you and I wouldn't stand with you in a fight.
I served, and proudly so, against Arabs being gassed by Hussien.
<rant off>
And
:banned:

Donny Carlson

10-18-2006, 09:11 PM

Just for the record, and for those unwilling or too afraid to say what they know, there were actually other offers on the table. Ultimately it was Logan's choice to make and he made it. Its over now. Time to move on.

Agreed.

As I said, it was speculation. I hadn't realised that there were others involved, though thinking back on it, this makes sense. That's interesting.

Bluerauder

10-19-2006, 03:33 AM

In a nutshell, I am completely appalled at Mac's rant. If the new owners don't wish to talk about the details, they certainly don't have to. However, berating the members who have questions about it doesn't sound like a successful strategy to me.......

Don't misunderstand me. The new ownership is under no obligation to explain anything. I think we all understand that. But blasting those who have questions isn't the way you handle a "no comment" situation. I'm deeply disappointed thus far. Not that that matters as I know I'll be shown the door if I don't like it.

Bingo !!! Thanks Mike for summarizing the real point that many posters here have seemed to have missed completely.

What really surprises me is that nearly 40% of the folks in this poll don't even want mutual "Respect". :rolleyes:

2003 MIB

10-19-2006, 05:30 AM

If you know Logan- I guess I can say I do, this wasn't a big suprise. When? Who? Details? I don't know- I'm assuming on a busy travel schedule he called Bunny and said "I can't do this anymore." She said, "sell it to me" and rallied some investors. One of my friends sold his site to some of my other friends. Months ago, he did the same thing with his second Marauder. He's got hobby ADD. It's probably that simple and non-drama laden.
I am a huge fan of "my house- my rules" and believe that's why it's a cool, safe place to visit. I hope it continues.
Ya know, I've always thought of Logan as a retarded kid with a balloon- don't get me wrong, he's one of the smartest guys I know but a creature of passing obsssession. When he has "the balloon" it's the coolest thing ever- when it pops or deflates- NOTHING will soothe him but another balloon.
Good on ya, Logan- I hope you get some rest.
Owed something?- not me.