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View Full Version : Everybody else is doin it....


magindat
10-19-2006, 04:36 PM
Just for fun, here's the Dyno results at Reinharts. No it's not monster HP. But it IS fast and the tune is SAFE. Not bad for N/A, I guess.
Mods are here: http://www.magindat.net/marauder.htm

283RWHP 293RWT
KillJoy
10-19-2006, 04:54 PM
Nice #'s, even for a conservative tune,

KillJoy
bigslim
10-19-2006, 04:56 PM
Good numbers for a N/A car.
Blackened300a
10-19-2006, 05:03 PM
Why is the A/F line wavy? I have 4 dyno results all with consistant straight lines through the range.
Power Surge
10-19-2006, 05:51 PM
Why is the A/F line wavy? I have 4 dyno results all with consistant straight lines through the range.

That's because I am anal in my tuning and I am a perfectionist. I have the straightest A/F lines in the biz. Other tuners actually poke fun at me for it sometimes :D.

Also, do you have the SAE numbers for that car?
Shora
10-19-2006, 06:26 PM
Looks like chineese to me. I have no idea what I am looking at except the Max Hp etc numbers.

Congrats anyway amigo.
Blackened300a
10-19-2006, 06:32 PM
That's because I am anal in my tuning and I am a perfectionist. I have the straightest A/F lines in the biz. Other tuners actually poke fun at me for it sometimes :D.

Also, do you have the SAE numbers for that car?

This is exactly the reason why I tell anyone who will listen why you are the best...
sailsmen
10-19-2006, 07:04 PM
Due to OEM MAF variances some Maruders will have a less than straight A/F.
Zack
10-19-2006, 07:13 PM
Why is the A/F line wavy? I have 4 dyno results all with consistant straight lines through the range.

There is a function in the dynojet software that allows you to 'smooth' the A/F line so it looks perfect.
Take this feature off and it looks jagged.
Power Surge
10-19-2006, 09:00 PM
Due to OEM MAF variances some Maruders will have a less than straight A/F.

Not quite.
Power Surge
10-19-2006, 09:02 PM
There is a function in the dynojet software that allows you to 'smooth' the A/F line so it looks perfect.
Take this feature off and it looks jagged.


That's an excuse usually used by tuners who don't have nice A/F lines, trying to "explain" to customers why some other tuner's lines are so nice. I've been through this many times.

The smoothing feature barely affects the A/F line.
magindat
10-20-2006, 06:09 AM
Why is the A/F line wavy? I have 4 dyno results all with consistant straight lines through the range.

2 reasons: 1) from what I understand, that is typical of the JLT. 2) Mine's a little more pronounced due to the throttle body.

I'm just happy it dips down and not up!! (safety)
magindat
10-20-2006, 06:10 AM
Also, do you have the SAE numbers for that car?

No, I had already done stuff before I ever got on a dyno.
Power Surge
10-20-2006, 06:45 AM
No, I had already done stuff before I ever got on a dyno.

SAE is a correction factor. If you look at your graph, you'll see "STD" on the top. That's for Standard correction. The industry standard is SAE correction, but lots of tuners and dyno shops are starting to give people STD correction numbers because they are higher and look more impressive. If you want to "compare" numbers with other people, then you have to use the same correction factor. If everyone on this site uses STD numbers, then it wouldn't be a problem, but I think most graphs I've seen here are in SAE.
Eric91Z
10-20-2006, 07:11 AM
2 reasons: 1) from what I understand, that is typical of the JLT. 2) Mine's a little more pronounced due to the throttle body.

I'm just happy it dips down and not up!! (safety)

I wonder if that is more a function of the throttle body than the JLT CAI. I have the JLT and CAI only and had the following dyno results on my car:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/1/1/3/5/DynoGraph1.jpg

What ever other mods you have plus, possibly the altitude and temp differences between Florida and Iowa gives you an extra 23hp and 10 ft/lbs of torque.
magindat
10-20-2006, 07:11 AM
SAE is a correction factor. If you look at your graph, you'll see "STD" on the top. That's for Standard correction. The industry standard is SAE correction, but lots of tuners and dyno shops are starting to give people STD correction numbers because they are higher and look more impressive. If you want to "compare" numbers with other people, then you have to use the same correction factor. If everyone on this site uses STD numbers, then it wouldn't be a problem, but I think most graphs I've seen here are in SAE.

I have no friggin idea. This is the only graph I got. The numbers seem right, though based on mods.

I'm not competetive at all with this stuff. It's nice to know it's 'good' but it's trivial to me. I just like to have my fun car!!!

I understand what you are saying, though. I just don't dig that deep.
Power Surge
10-20-2006, 07:19 AM
What ever other mods you have plus, possibly the altitude and temp differences between Florida and Iowa gives you an extra 23hp and 10 ft/lbs of torque.

Also, your numbers are SAE and his are STD, so his will be higher.
magindat
10-20-2006, 07:31 AM
Also, your numbers are SAE and his are STD, so his will be higher.

It follows, though. I have a PHP spacer and a custom exhaust in 2-1/2". If the correction factor is off, it's not by much.

I know the exhaust added major SOTP HP. The spacer adds a couple and so does the TB, so The 2 dyno's are 'in line'.
Dennis Reinhart
10-20-2006, 06:57 PM
That's because I am anal in my tuning and I am a perfectionist. I have the straightest A/F lines in the biz. Other tuners actually poke fun at me for it sometimes :D.

Also, do you have the SAE numbers for that car?


I am also a perfectionist when it comes to AF, And Rich's car was printed on dyno AF, the sniffer as some call it, which goes in the tail pipe, it is used to MONITOR AF at WOT only. I NEVER tune on the sniffer, I use a wide band just behind the cats. I spent 5K on a CDS system, that will map wide band AF boost and IAT. Before and after the the inner cooler, as well as Maf voltage, the only difference between SAE and standard is the correction factor and any one that has been around dyno's, know its only about 3/5 RWHP. And the difference between a WB and the sniffer is about 1% richer. The wavy line is not always a true AF trace. Bottom line is no matter what if the customer is not happy I have lost, and in this case he was very happy, not only with the dyno numbers but more than that, the service, and the cars over all improved drivability.

:beer: :beer:
Power Surge
10-20-2006, 07:09 PM
I am also a perfectionist when it comes to AF, And Rich's car was printed on dyno AF, the sniffer as some call it, which goes in the tail pipe, it is used to MONITOR AF at WOT only. I NEVER tune on the sniffer, I use a wide band just behind the cats. I spent 5K on a CDS system, that will map wide band AF boost and IAT. Before and after the the inner cooler, as well as Maf voltage, the only difference between SAE and standard is the correction factor and any one that has been around dyno's, know its only about 3/5 RWHP. And the difference between a WB and the sniffer is about 1% richer. The wavy line is not always a true AF trace.

Well, I disagree with pretty much all of that, but I don't want to get into a tuning pissing match with you, out of respect that you are a supporting vendor here and I am not.

I also didn't say anything about your tune in his car, obviously it was a mail order deal, and you can't expect perfectly straight A/F lines via mail order, unless the car has been run and then the tuner given dyno data back to adjust off. Naturally I am sure you could produce a nice straight A/F line (as could any good tuner) if the car was done in person by you. As for the numbers, I was curious for my own sake, to see what the SAE numbers were compared to other cars because I use SAE numbers on my tuning.
Dennis Reinhart
10-20-2006, 07:19 PM
Well, I disagree with pretty much all of that, but I don't want to get into a tuning pissing match with you, out of respect that you are a supporting vendor here and I am not.

I also didn't say anything about your tune in his car, obviously it was a mail order deal, and you can't expect perfectly straight A/F lines via mail order, unless the car has been run and then the tuner given dyno data back to adjust off. Naturally I am sure you could produce a nice straight A/F line (as could any good tuner) if the car was done in person by you. As for the numbers, I was curious for my own sake, to see what the SAE numbers were compared to other cars because I use SAE numbers on my tuning.

How do you mail order a dyno graph, last time I looked the car has to be on the dyno, it was on my dyno, and yes he was here in person, but I loan my dyno out to Speed Fab. My friend Tracy and he changed the title, when he tunes his ricers, and I never caught this till now, and as I said you and I both know the difference between SAE and standard and this was simple over sight, since Tracy used the dyno before me I will post the SAE sheet tomorrow, with a wide band AF as well. But as I said there is only a minor difference and I tune on SAE 99% of the time.
Dennis Reinhart
10-20-2006, 07:41 PM
Why is the A/F line wavy? I have 4 dyno results all with consistant straight lines through the range.
Because they were printed using the sniffer and the smooting setting was not turned up the af was taken in the tail pipe, we tune using a wideband not the sniffer and this is a NA car not SC.
magindat
10-20-2006, 10:00 PM
Dudes, I didn't mean to start a pissin match. I just thought it would be cool to share the terriffic and educating experience I had. I love these cars (mine especially) and the people involved with them. I shared for comparison's sake and to share my good experience.

Further, I asked Dennis to tune conservatively. Most of the work Dennis took care of was for longevity mixed with a small percentage of 'fun' factor. I was there. Drove 4 hours to be there. The education and experience I got was a bonus. Hell, it's worth my money just to see the car up there and watch the gradual increase in HP and torque on the dyno itself.

Dudes, this is fun first, friends second, education third, and friendly competition a distant 4th. Notice I didn't mention pissin matches anywhere in that list.

Don't ruin this for me. It took me a long time to get here.

If you have any doubts on whether I'm a happy customer, you need only read my SEVERAL threads in DR's forum.

And to top it all off.... I discovered a ROOKIE MOVE tonight at the track. I haven't cleaned my JLT filter since it was new. So you can just add another 5 to that graph!!!!!

Power Surge, I appreciate the points you have put forward and I add the info to my mental library. Please let me be happy and proud of my investment and experience.

Eric, Thanx for sharing. Sorry this turned into a mess.

Carry on gents (and I MEAN GENTS!) - Macism
Rich
Power Surge
10-20-2006, 10:16 PM
Power Surge, I appreciate the points you have put forward and I add the info to my mental library. Please let me be happy and proud of my investment and experience.



In no way am I trying to take away your fun and experiance. If you notice, I did not knock, or even comment on your car, or Dennis' tune. I just simply asked if you had the other correction factor.

My biggest thing is education. I love to share my knowledge and experiance with people. Dyno "numbers" have been an ongoing debate on web forums for many years, and it's always attributed to people not understanding what they are actually looking at. When I see something that has the potential to start a debate (like correction factors), I just try to help get everyone on the same page.
DEFYANT
10-20-2006, 10:18 PM
Yet another dnyo debate.
ctrlraven
10-20-2006, 10:21 PM
I'm going to try and get my dynos redone sometime soon cause 277rwhp & 309rwtq just didnt sound right to me and especially now looking at your numbers with me having less mods but the air was perfect when I got mine done, no humidty and 55-60 degress. Just can't wait to hit the 300rwhp mark....one day lol.
Blackened300a
10-21-2006, 07:38 AM
2 reasons: 1) from what I understand, that is typical of the JLT. 2) Mine's a little more pronounced due to the throttle body.

I'm just happy it dips down and not up!! (safety)

I had my car dynoed with a PHP airbox, Metco Carbon fiber intake tube. PHP intake spacer, and the Accufab throttle body.
My first dry run had a wave in the A/F mixture so you are correct about the intake mods having a affect, However that was corrected with tuning and by the 3rd run I had a straight line across the board.
IMHO, I would rather go to the guy who takes the time to make sure everything is perfect before he unstraps my car from the dyno.

As far as SAE vs Corrected number. Im guilty of using the SAE cause they look better, Im pulling 286 and 308 to the wheels rather then the 293 and 312 like I have in my sig.