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View Full Version : Trilogy 69 is missing in third gear



robomac
10-31-2006, 10:40 PM
Hey Lidio I talked to you today about my SC MM missing in third gear. I checked where you said to look and yes there is a bung there for a WB AFR. I measured the pully OD and it is 3.30 ( the real OD not whee the belt rides. The guys name is Michael Harbury from Coral Key Florida

So what I did was buy the car from King Fubar truck it to CA and then fill with oxygenated CA gas, remove the JLT and clean the MAF of the dirt and oil(I hate K&N). At this point it passed smog (don't ask) super clean (mine has CA emissions stickers and is a ULEV when they say the SC makes them run cleaner they are serious the smog guy has not seen a car this clean in a long time)

Now on the fwy it runs out nice in 1 & 2 but misses from around 3800 on up. Seems like a lean misfire. I will check the fuel pressure and intake pressure readings. According to trilogy tjere is a CA tune for the 91 gas but I still suspect that it alreeady has a custom tune from you which may not be so great for CA. If this is true where are you at on th methanol kit? Still waiting for them to ship kits? My cell is 714 865-8716 if you have any more info to share. Thanks

Breadfan
10-31-2006, 10:59 PM
If you're running 91 octane the car may have a 93 octane tune in it...that could be the problem. I'd be careful with it until you get a response from Lidio in case there is some detonation going on. If you have access to race gas put some in to bump the octane up.

The comment about the ULEV was very interesting! I'll keep that in mind when the Prius drivers try talking to me. :)

DEFYANT
11-01-2006, 05:58 AM
Find a dyno!!

RoyLPita
11-01-2006, 06:01 AM
Call Trilogy Motorsports and talk to Jerry Barnes.

DEFYANT
11-01-2006, 06:11 AM
Sounds like you did some cleaning. Did you spray down the engine with water? Pressure washer...? This also be caused by the coil packs.

Has the check engine light come on?

robomac
11-01-2006, 10:48 AM
I removed the JLT kit (smog guy didn't like it cuz it was "modified" )and then removed the K&N oil from the MAF using offical MAF cleaner. It was noticably dirty and oily. DId not wash the enigne at all. So the changes I know I made are CA 91 octane (oxygenated which I think means less actual fuel per gallon/hour) pulled the JLT and repalced with stock new element. My understanding is that the car was custom tuned for 400HP RW and the pulley is silver and measures 3.3 inches OD (so probaly a 3.2) My BAP setting looks to be 33 and it may have been bumped accidently. I am trying to find a dyno place with a WBAFR gage locally but no joy so far.

What would I expect the fuel pressure to be at WOT? I can measure that.

Yes I believe that this is a lean misfire and I have not changed the fuel fliter. On florida fuel with no changes this did not happen. I can revert back to the JLT kit but am reluctant to oil the MAF!

I have seen signifcant discussion that fuel pumps are marginal and yes the car has over 50K on it so maybe it is dying? But so quick?
any thoughts you guys have on what to do is appeciated and will be thoughtlfully considered.

robomac
11-01-2006, 10:57 AM
My Car has the CA emmisions sticker (good for me otherwise smog would have been even tougher!). The ULEV is the way that Ford made it. Both Triloigy and Lidio made it clear that the SC kit made it even cleaner. So my results were 1 ppm HC (minimum detectable above zero!) and nothing else measurable except NOX which was 20% of the allowable. The smog guy was shocked at how clean it was. The mechanic came out to look at it as he could hear the car (not normal sounds) but was breathing the exhaust and it was not horrible. Note that CA does not have a listing in the offical computer for a marauder so it was a manual entry. So when you blow by that Prius be content that you can eat their cake and your also.

Lidio
11-01-2006, 03:22 PM
Hey Lidio I talked to you today about my SC MM missing in third gear. I checked where you said to look and yes there is a bung there for a WB AFR. I measured the pully OD and it is 3.30 ( the real OD not whee the belt rides. The guys name is Michael Harbury from Coral Key Florida

So what I did was buy the car from King Fubar truck it to CA and then fill with oxygenated CA gas, remove the JLT and clean the MAF of the dirt and oil(I hate K&N). At this point it passed smog (don't ask) super clean (mine has CA emissions stickers and is a ULEV when they say the SC makes them run cleaner they are serious the smog guy has not seen a car this clean in a long time)

Now on the fwy it runs out nice in 1 & 2 but misses from around 3800 on up. Seems like a lean misfire. I will check the fuel pressure and intake pressure readings. According to trilogy tjere is a CA tune for the 91 gas but I still suspect that it alreeady has a custom tune from you which may not be so great for CA. If this is true where are you at on th methanol kit? Still waiting for them to ship kits? My cell is 714 865-8716 if you have any more info to share. Thanks


The meth kits have worked out real well in the supercharged Mustangs ranging from supercharged 5.0's to both 2V and 4V -- 4.6L's in the last year or so.
The cars that benefit the most from it have been non inter-cooled Centrifugal blower applications which for us has been predominately Vortech equipped cars. Althoguh on the MM's I'm still very firm on only letting those guys but the Trilogy kit. On Roots and Screw type blower applications that have an inter-cooler... the gains with Meth have been good, especially with a boost bump-up at the time the meth is installed. But not as dramatic as the non-inter-cooled cars for some obvious reasons.

We've yet to install a Meth kit on a Trilogy equipped MM. I'm sure we're more then capable of it. Its just that no one with a Trilogy MM has commishened us to do it. I think that since the MMs are 10.1:1 compression and bumping the boost to no less then 12-14ish with meth should make a pretty good difference with the TQ and HP. Until I do one I cant say though about the fit and finish and of course the performance gains.

robomac
11-02-2006, 09:40 AM
I hooked up my scanner and read the fuel rail pressure. At 10-12 psi 4K rpm pressure was no better than 40 psi. At boost tip in I would see it flare to maybe 50 psi once in a while but it would drop fast as load applied. I cranked the BAP up to 50 (5 volts) and the pressure would jump to 85 psi but drop immedialty back down to 40 or so. I think this means I have a fuel delivery problem right?. Next step is to swap out the fuel filter tonigt and retest.

Anybody have anything else for me to look at?

The BAP is back to 33 and man do the brakes get hot when you apply 400 hp to them!

Zack
11-02-2006, 10:22 AM
I recommend moving out of California so you have access to good gas.
Or eat plenty of chili.

robomac
11-02-2006, 06:33 PM
Here in CA we eat salsa. Grow it in our backyard dontca know.

Seriusly I do not think it is detonation. I have seen detonation and this is misfire. Given that the fuel pressure is ot holding up I will replace it tonight and then see.

robomac
11-03-2006, 04:10 PM
At 4000 full throttle ands 12 pounds of boost what should the rail pressure be? I am measuring 40 psi and I htink it should be higher? If I change the fuel filter (I looked and it was dirty and flowing less tha new) and rerun the test when do I decalre victory?

Has anybody measured the flow rates of the various fuel filters or just get the Motorcraft and be done with it?

superford3
11-04-2006, 02:18 PM
your fuel pressure should be over 40psi under heavy load with boost and very rarley does a fuelfilter cause problems like this id say your fuelpump is going bad

robomac
11-04-2006, 02:59 PM
OK so I made another run. Hitting 50 psi now with cleaned filter and going to pull it and repalce with new filter (if no crap is coming out). However decided to check the plugs as that also could contribute. Plug is agsf 22c and gap is over .050. So I am going out for plugs.

SO if the pump is going what are the sysptoms? If bad go for the Ford Gt pump? Your thoughts?

superford3
11-04-2006, 03:25 PM
do you actually feel a miss or what kind of symptom other than low fuel pressure

jdando
11-04-2006, 04:41 PM
Plug is agsf 22c and gap is over .050. So I am going out for plugs.

The plug is correct, but the gap is huge. Recommended is 0.032".

jeremy

robomac
11-04-2006, 10:16 PM
I actaully felt the miss. rpm jumped, slow to accelerate (realtively speaking) got worse in third gear. So upon advice from others checked the plugs. AGSF-22C kind of worn out. Gap varied from .04 to +.050. Could not get new ones so regapped and filed edges to get them a litle sharper (reduces voltage requiremnts) So miss much reduced or gone? Now all I need is assurnace (or whatever) that fuel pressure is NOT an issue. I just need to know it is all right. I am a little leary or burning the motor down cuz I was stupid ot impatient. I use to run high boost (40+ psi) in my youth and broke lots of stuff. I can not afford to do this on this car it is my daily driver.

Your thoughts?

Marauderjack
11-05-2006, 03:58 AM
New copper plugs set at .032" and you should be good to go!!!:burnout:

I tried platinums in my 408W stroker and had an awful missfire.....Found out that small spark from platinums was being "Blown Out" on hard acceleration??:confused: Back to coppers at .035" and has not missed once since!!:beer:

I think you have it figgered out!!;)

Marauderjack:D

robomac
11-05-2006, 09:27 PM
So where can I get plugs? I like in the peoples republic of Califurnia and they don;t need no stinkin plugs. Migh mess up the little Prius!