LEO Question

[duhtroll]

OK - I am a little pissed and well, baffled about what transpired on my way to work this AM.

I and a co-worker who carpool were on our way to work at around 7:00 this AM. We work in a small rural town 25 miles SW of where we live. It's my week to drive and we're in the MM.

We are on a winding, two-lane hwy that will eventually hook up with the 4-lane which takes us most of the way to the aforementioned town. My radar detector goes off, and I see up ahead in the distance (I saw a shimmering light, natch!) a gold State Patrol CV - about 0.5 mile ahead going my direction in my lane. I look down at the speedo and see that I am going under 60 in a 55, so I don't sweat it and continue on my merry way.

Side note - 5 over is about what I normally do, but I didn't have the cruise on and happened to not be going that fast, probably because I am very relaxed in the early mornings - takes me a while to wake up and all that.

My co-worker, upon hearing the detector, asks "What's that?" I immediately go into my explanation of where the LEO is as I had spotted him. "Is he after you?" he asks. And I say it can't be because I'm too far away, he's around the curve (by then) and they don't have rear facing radar - especially one that gets a reading indirectly from the rear while both vehicles are moving.

LEO pulls into T intersection on the hwy. We figure he is going to turn around and go after one of the cars going the other way. Nope! After the requisite 10 or so seconds it takes me to pass him, he pulls in behind me and stops us.

He proceeds to tell me that I was going "a little fast" and he's going to write me a warning. As he leaves, my CW says "you weren't speeding - I saw the speedometer and you weren't even going 60 - I know I'm on a bit of an angle, but you weren't speeding, right?" I confirm this. The guy is just being a dick.

LEO comes back with the warning - tells me verbally he had me going over 65 and that I should "have a nice weekend."

My CW speaks up. "I know I'm probably not supposed to do this, but I saw the speedometer and he wasn't speeding. I know I'm on an angle, but I don't think he's going that fast."

I say nothing more than "thank you" (to the LEO, not CW) as it may have gotten me into a situation.

Written warning has scribbled, illegible badge # on it. I pull out, being very careful to not spit gravel as he parked 2 feet behind my bumper - barely enough to walk behind the car, and we continue to work.

About 1-2 minutes later I am gunned again by another ISP car as I am on the onramp to the 4-lane. The guy is staring right at me. The first *****er must have radioed ahead. As I am still not speeding, I don't get stopped a second time.

We get to the small town where I work. At the stoplight on the main drag through town, up behind me pulls THE SAME G*DDAMN OFFICER who stopped me. We're in another county by now - 25 miles from the first stop. There is more than one route here, but he must have driven pretty fast to catch up to me as he was nowhere behind me either on the 4-lane or afterward until I pulled into town. As I am *still* not doing anything wrong, no stop here either.

1) WTF is going on? Is this the downside of the Crown Vic Effect?
2) Is rear-facing radar out there? No way he had me going over 65, 'cuz I wasn't.
3) I am going to at some point, in person, complain about this but I need to know what to say and to whom. This is harassment. I know it's Thanksgiving, but give me a friggin' break here. I think he saw the MM and decided to hassle me. I can't think of any reason I should have been stopped.

Were I speeding or doing anything wrong, I would not be mentioning this. But I don't generally drive in an unsafe manner - truth is I'm pretty damn careful and I keep almost all my racing at the track where it belongs.

Oh well - gives me a good story to tell. Thoughts?

Thanks,
-Andrew

[ckadiddle]

He thinks you're cute, Andrew. No other explanation for crossing your path so many times in the same day.
:lol:

[ezratty]

I Know That in NY they definatly have rear facing radar.

You should have just gotten out of your car beaten you co-worker to a pulp and then proceded on to work.

[2003 MIB]

I'm inclined to agree...Your mouthy CW probably caused the hassle.

[SouLRioT]

He could have also been pace clocking you, and not using his radar.

[gja]

If I note a LEO following for undue cause, out of his jurisdiction I would record the unit (car) number and get his shield number. Then I make a call to either my counsel under retainer or his post command. I would bend the ear of his CO and brother would they get an earful. A self-appointed lone-ranger who decides to not respect the need for restricting their patrol to assigned jurisdiction, when not in pursuit or on directed call can find him/her self standing before IAD answering a battery of VERY uncomfortable questions.

Cops have rules, too. Ask Mac. And if you think cops are hard on others, you should see the pounding handed out when they think one of their own has stepped over a line. Not a lot of sympathy handed out, I can tell you, as in recent years the "one-bad-apples" in the groups have garnered attention most honest cops really don't welcome as it places them all in a bad light.

Kemosabee that followed you best keep his butt where he is assigned, lest he be hit with a call while 'wandering' and someone asks why the hell it took him so long to get to a call when he was supposed to be on post nearby.

[Bradley G]

If they want you, thier gunna git you!:banned:

[TheDonk]

Just a couple of quick comments here:
Rear facing, moving, same direction radar does exist
and is pretty much stock with all the major radar
manufacturers now.
State patrol officers/troopers - the "state" is their jurisdiction.

[duhtroll]

No, this was after the warning.


I'm inclined to agree...Your mouthy CW probably caused the hassle.

[Bluerauder]

OK - I am a little pissed and well, baffled about what transpired on my way to work this AM.
Thanks,
-Andrew

It does sound a little "odd", Andrew. :dunno: Could be that he has observed your 5 MPH over on several other occasions if you use the same route alot. Could also be a "no tolerance" crackdown on over the speed limit due to the Thanksgiving holiday being factored in as well. Lots of departments step up enforcement on big travel holidays as a means to improve safety and reduce accidents. You may have just gotten caught up in this. But seeing the same LEO 25 miles later is quite surprising. Of course, that may be just a coincidence too if that is his normal patrol run.

Have you had your speedo checked lately .... gears?? tire sizes?? Maybe you are off on your MPH estimates?? Again :dunno:

If you haven't already done so ... I'd have a short and sweek talk with the mouthy co-worker and/or return the favor when he ends up in a similar situation with you in the shotgun seat. ;)

[DEFYANT]

First let me say, if you are driving at 55.1 mph in a 55 zone, your speeding. No if ands or buts about it bro - you can be stopped.

Yes there is rear facing radar. When I worked the road, I had it. I'd catch on coming traffic with the front and check'em on the rear.

If the speed slowed, I'd 1) let'em go - they got the point, or 2) they'd probably get a warning depending on thier attitude. Often though, the speed would increase. What do you think would happen?

There is no conspiracy! The police are not out to get you. You came into the officers attention. Before that, maybe he was thinking about his family or his Marauder or something else. When he scratched out a warning to you and let you go, he probably went right back to doing what he was doing before you came through.

The fact he endded up behind you means nothing. Police are allowed to leave the jusidiction for various reasons.

Interesting point about it being Thanksgiving. We can all expect to be pulled over more around the holidays. Even for 5 mpg over. Why? DUI! Any seed over is enough to check you out for DUI. For that matter, for drugs, warrants etc....

If you do not like being stopped, instead of driving 5 over routinely, drive 5 under.

[duhtroll]

If you do not like being stopped, instead of driving 5 over routinely, drive 5 under.

Yeah, I'll just piss off everyone ELSE instead . . . ;)

Hey - I have no problem being pulled over if I'm speeding. But in this case, that uh, wasn't the case. I was doing the limit. I have corrected for my tire size (I have 255s and it makes the diameter a bit off but my xcal lets me redo that) so I'm pretty accurate - also have checked speed with those trailers from time to time. Even if I hadn't adjusted it, the 255/55/18 only adds 1 MPH. Again, not enough to bat an eyelash at.

It's not that he stopped me, but why, and then why he went so far out of his way to stay with me. I don't get it. Musta had a real burr in his a$$.

As far as normal patrol routes, I seriously doubt it, especially since he caught me after I was well ahead of him. That means he's hauling a$$ to catch me as I had a couple minutes' head start, a shorter route, and there are no stoplights or even signs, really along the way.

Between two counties would be kinda unusual as we started in town, and though he has jurisdiction there, very rarely do the ISP show up in town. They leave that to the locals as it is a metro area (as much as Iowa towns get).

This is my regular route but I haven't driven it in two weeks. Last week we drove individually as I had to stay late every night, and the week before was my CW's turn to drive. Again, if he was waiting for me he went to a heck of a lot of trouble, IMO. I'm still of the opinion that he had really no reason to stop me, other than to show me his power.

[Marauderjack]

I thought he said it was a "State Patrol" car.....down here they can go anywhere within the state and outside it under certain circumstances??:confused:

They can stop you for NO REASON at all other than seeing your license and registration....."Thanks you sir....BE CAREFUL"......"BTW, do I smell alcohol?"....BIG PROBLEMS ENSUE IF SO!!:eek: :shake: :bigcry:

Rule of thumb.....If he has (she) a light, badge and a gun you'd best behave!!;)

Marauderjack:burnout:

[DEFYANT]

Yeah, there are some P/O's with a power tripping ego. Usually the rookie just off field training.

[duhtroll]

This guy was about 50-55 years old. If he's a rookie I wonder how he made it through training.

[DEFYANT]

I doubt your guy was a rookie. 55yr old rookies come through once in awhile. Usually retired from another PD or military. They do not have that same mentality as the 20something with a badge, gun and blinky lights.

Rest assured, other P/O's try to keep these hot shots in line.

[Brutus]

First let me say, if you are driving at 55.1 mph in a 55 zone, your speeding. No if ands or buts about it bro - you can be stopped.

Yes there is rear facing radar. When I worked the road, I had it. I'd catch on coming traffic with the front and check'em on the rear.

If the speed slowed, I'd 1) let'em go - they got the point, or 2) they'd probably get a warning depending on thier attitude. Often though, the speed would increase. What do you think would happen?

There is no conspiracy! The police are not out to get you. You came into the officers attention. Before that, maybe he was thinking about his family or his Marauder or something else. When he scratched out a warning to you and let you go, he probably went right back to doing what he was doing before you came through.

The fact he endded up behind you means nothing. Police are allowed to leave the jusidiction for various reasons.

Interesting point about it being Thanksgiving. We can all expect to be pulled over more around the holidays. Even for 5 mpg over. Why? DUI! Any seed over is enough to check you out for DUI. For that matter, for drugs, warrants etc....

If you do not like being stopped, instead of driving 5 over routinely, drive 5 under.


I fully agree with this^^^. I would also add that there are rear facing radars that work while stationary, moving in the same direction and moving in the opposite direction. Even though you have made corrections for your tires and such, the only real way to calibrate your speedometer is with a radar gun. If we (police) want to win a speeding ticket off of a pace, our car must be calibrated using this method. On another note, I have followed cars several miles, or run into them at a later time, and I know the must have thought I was following them, however it was just a coincedence. IMHO, it was just a warning, dont sweat it. :beer:

[Blackened300a]

Interesting point about it being Thanksgiving. We can all expect to be pulled over more around the holidays. Even for 5 mpg over.

Hey Now you LEO's are being petty!! When did you start checking Gas Mileage?? :lol:

[jabo731]

Hey Now you LEO's are being petty!! When did you start checking Gas Mileage?? :lol:

Good catch...went right over my head. MPG.

[RCSignals]

First let me say, if you are driving at 55.1 mph in a 55 zone, your speeding. No if ands or buts about it bro - you can be stopped.

................

I know the point you are making, but what speedometer is that accurate?

In my experience Ford speedometers seem to run under indicated speed, unless changes have been made to the vehicle.

(I think only Mac gets stopped for .1 over speed limit....)

I understand certain types of speed estimating radar/laser have been banned in Britain due to inaccuracy, but are allowed in the US. Rear facing radar when both vehicles are moving, if I remember correctly, is one.

[SergntMac]

Many many years ago, the Wisconsin State PATROL wrote me for 56 MPH in a 55 zone....Charlie is right, speeding is speeding.

You got a warning, not a violation. I got a violation that cost me 26.25 in immediate fine, and when the conviction report came through the system, I got another fine. A day w/o pay from my employer, for a Rule 2 violation, i.e "embarassing the CPD".

Maybe you got bent over, -A, maybe not. But, already you have spent more energy on it than it's worth. Ease up my friend, could have been worse. Enjoy your holiday.

And...Tell your CW to STFU when he's in your car. He may not be with you when you see this trooper again, but the trooper will remember you.

[SergntMac]

I know the point you are making, but what speedometer is that accurate?

In my experience Ford speedometers seem to run under indicated speed, unless changes have been made to the vehicle.Indeed, which is why I trust a ScanGuage over the OEM speedo.

Even with my stock #3 MM, my speedo is off the mark. Sometimes under, sometime over, depending my my actual speed. But, the speed available from the OBDII port, is the most accurate, I have cross checked this on a dyno.

[duhtroll]

I've had a day to think about this now and I really think I got shafted, albeit in a minor way.

With all due respect --

Gonna mention it anyway. I drive pretty damn carefully and I feel this was unwarranted. Obviously the LEO didn't feel strongly that I had done something wrong or I'd be looking at a ticket.

If I make a mistake at my job and someone calls me on it, I can either be a dick about it and act like I'm always right, or I can admit it and gain some respect with my colleagues. If a LEO is wrong, we should be able to say so without fear of reprisal. I know it's sometimes a thankless job. There are lots of those.

AND . . . I feel we can be friendly about it.

LEOs are human too. This guy made a mistake. Most people are totally cowed by the badge and will not speak up, which is why I think some (a small minority of) LEOs are allowed to act like dicks. No one ever calls them on it.

I'm going to be nice. I'm going to be professional. And I'm going to tell someone that this guy made a mistake, and that's all. If they don't like it, then I can't help that. We're allowed to disagree here in the good old US of A. Hopefully the ISP can take some criticism like adults and not "get that guy with the Marauder who complained." We'll see.

I guess I'm pretty comfortable with how I drive and if I bring some scrutiny upon myself, I'm OK with that.

Thanks,
-A

[duhtroll]

I'd say a radar gun is the most accurate if it's calibrated. The OBDII port is still measuring the revolutions, and if those are off, then the OBDII is off.

Only an unmoving, outside source can be totally accurate about the speed of a moving object.


Indeed, which is why I trust a ScanGuage over the OEM speedo.

Even with my stock #3 MM, my speedo is off the mark. Sometimes under, sometime over, depending my my actual speed. But, the speed available from the OBDII port, is the most accurate, I have cross checked this on a dyno.

[LILALLEYKATT]

After hearing everyones rant I realize just how lucky I am to live in a state that has only 300 State Troopers and at any one time 200 of them are sleeping. I am just plain old spoiled rotten getting to drive 90-100mph most anytime I want ...And I love it...I do feel sorry for all the crap you all have to put up with though...Makes for awfully parinoid driving...

[Bigdogjim]

I have said this before and I will say it again......

For ever ticket your get there are 10 you did not get........

Be happy......................... ..............................

[SergntMac]

I'd say a radar gun is the most accurate if it's calibrated. The OBDII port is still measuring the revolutions, and if those are off, then the OBDII is off.

Only an unmoving, outside source can be totally accurate about the speed of a moving object."If" Ahhh, jeeze...

I hear ya -A, so, I'll skip explaining my GPS observations, since I don't have the Marauder with GPS anymore.

However, ODBII 411 is "most" close to any "acccurate" we can ask for, among the tools we have easy access too.

Not everyone has access to Radar, VasCar, LiDar and so much more in the LEO tool bag. Not everyone can afford GPS toys either. But, the OBDII stuff is FREE, and the scan-tool reader is rather inexpensive when you consider what else it can tell you about your car in "live" terms.

Not all of us can guarantee that the Sun will appear tomorrow, but most of us trust that it will. Thus, I trust my OBDII 411. Works for me.

Seems you don't want any consolation from anyone, but prefer to just blow off steam through us.

Cool...Glad to help. Feel better now? Happy T-day, don't eat too fast?

[Motorhead350]

After hearing everyones rant I realize just how lucky I am to live in a state that has only 300 State Troopers and at any one time 200 of them are sleeping. I am just plain old spoiled rotten getting to drive 90-100mph most anytime I want ...And I love it...I do feel sorry for all the crap you all have to put up with though...Makes for awfully parinoid driving...

:lol: Thats great and Big Dog Jim has a good point as he has said to other before... probably me included. ;)

[rayjay]

Whats a "written warning" and what affect does it have on your driving privilege?

[Marauderjack]

FWIW.....

My ScanGauge and GPS are within 1/2 MPH of each other at all times and I believe it is the GPS that may be lagging due to "Refresh Rate"??:confused:

At constant speeds (Interstate 70-75 MPH) they are dead on even though the ScanGauge does not read in tenths like the GPS....but when the GPS transitions to the next whole number the ScanGauge ain't far behind or has just changed!!:beer:

The OEM speedo is off a bit but that is why most LEO's give us 5 MPH or more leeway.....Move on and forgedaboutit!!:cool:

BTW.....Most LEO's down here will write you a citation (no warning) if they see a radar detector.....perceived as "intent"!!!:help:

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!;)

Marauderjack:bandit:

[RCSignals]

.........................
The OEM speedo is off a bit but that is why most LEO's give us 5 MPH or more leeway.....Move on and forgedaboutit!!:cool:

......................
Marauderjack:bandit:

Not only that, but most speedometers only indicate in 5mph increments. (speed limits are also usually in 5mph/kph increments)
Anything in between where the needle points is a guess.

[cyclopsram]

You were speeding... end of story.. RAM

[AstroVic]

I agree with most of the comments from LEOs on here.

You probably were doing the speed he said you were doing. If not, it was probably nothing more than an honest mistake. He obviously wasn't interested in writing you a citation anyhow. (Mostly, written warnings serve no purpose other than to show the brass that you're actually out there making "contacts" with motorists!)

It was a minor deal, so don't sweat it. Heck, why in the world would you lodge a complaint against the guy??? He gave you a warning, and, from the sounds of it, was polite and professional along the way!

If you think he's harassing you, I would bet you're flat wrong. Most cops can't remember your name 5 minutes after they stop you. And, in my career, I can honestly say that I've never gone out on patrol and said to myself, "Hey, I think I'll find someone to harass this afternoon. Look! There goes one right there! That guy, in the Marauder! Get him! Follow him! Bust his nuts!"

He probably *was* hauling ass when he got behind you the second time - but it probably had nothing to do with you or your previous encounter. I'm pretty certain it wasn't so he could follow you and give you the ugly-eye treatment. Maybe he was going to a call? Or maybe he thought your car was badass and wanted to take a second look? Or maybe he just hauling ass like we're all inclined to do from time to time? Or maybe his sergeant just called him to the station to answer another B.S. complaint from a motorist whose feelings were hurt after a warning was issued? (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Bottom line, you probably took things the wrong way. That cop probably forgot about you 10 seconds after sending you on your way with a warning. And the warning....well, it's just that...a warning.

Have a nice day, sir. Drive safe. ;)

(Sorry, couldn't resist that one, either!)

[AstroVic]

^^^ On that note, I want to share something with y'all. ^^^

Years ago, I received a formal complaint through Internal Affairs from a lady who said I was "harassing her son" because I had apparently issued him two - yes, count them, TWO - traffic citations six months apart.

The first citation was for 120 MPH in a 65 MPH zone if I remember correctly. He should've gone to jail for reckless driving, but I didn't want to give this 16 year-old kid a criminal record for what I figured was probably nothing more than a serious lapse of judgment.

The second time I stopped him, six months later, was for engaging in a contest of speed (i.e. drag racing), disregarding a red light, failing to signal a turn, and not wearing his seat belt. I only cited him for the drag racing and running the red light. The rest were warnings. (I should point out that I didn't even recognize the kid or his car when I pulled him over - it was nighttime on both contacts. Only after I started issuing the citation on the second stop did I put two-and-two together and realize the name sounded vaguely familiar.)

Anyhow, so his mom goes and files a complaint. She says that I must've had it out for her kid and that I was just stopping him because I was apparently jealous of his turbo Nissan 300ZX, or something to that effect.

The investigator asked her what she hoped would be done about the complaint. Her answer? She wanted the charges dismissed.

The investigator tells her that he can't do that. He explains that the charges still must be handled through the court system.

Weeks go by. In the meantime, I had to file written reports of my encounters with this kid, and explain everything in mind-numbing detail.

After everything was all said and done, the investigator told the lady that he didn't see any wrongdoing on my part. I was cleared.

The lady subsequently told the investigator that the only reason she filed the complaint was because she thought my department would dismiss the citations against her son. (Apparently, the town where she's from up North does that sort of thing. I digress.) She was worried that her son's auto insurance was be dropped or cost a few MORE thousand per year, so she hoped that filing a complaint would pressure me or my department to dismiss the charges.

The next week, I heard the lady took her son to the courthouse, where he pled guilty to all charges and paid about $1,000 in fines.

Now, why do I share this story with you?

Because, that complaint, as much bull***** as it was, has caused me numerous headaches over the years. Since I am a law enforcement officer and I have a license to be such through the State of Texas, I have been forced to disclose that complaint and provide documentation of such on several occasions. I had to disclose it when I applied to law school; I had to disclose it to the Texas Board of Law Examiners when I submitted my "Intent to Practice Law in Texas" request; I've had to disclose it on about 10 law enforcement job applications (when I decided to go on the job hunt and find a department that paid better); I've had to disclose it in polygraph examinations...you get the idea.

Needless to say, I've never had anything denied because of that complaint - I *was* cleared, after all! - but, it's been a recurring thorn in my A$$ for about 12 years now.

To my way of thinking, complaints should only be filed in cases of EXTREME injustice or unprofessional conduct. Formal complaints should not be taken lightly. You shouldn't file one merely because your ego got bruised, or you didn't like the fact that you got a citation (or a warning), or you didn't agree with the speed the officer said you were going (they have courtrooms for that sort of thing), or you felt that officer or this officer shouldn't have been driving so fast, or you saw two cruisers at the donut shop, or whatever.

Formal complaints have very serious consequences and should be carefully considered before being filed. It's not like complaining to the McDonald's manager that the drive-thru clerk messed up your order. Formal complaints can cause longterm headaches for police officers, and can sometimes cause problems if/when the officer seeks promotion opportunities, new jobs, etc.

Finally, not that this applies in the instant situation, but I should note that there have been many successful civil suits filed by officers against complainees who have filed a complaint for malicious purposes. I guess I should've sued that lady. God knows, I might've been the proud new owner of a turbo Nissan 300ZX.

Naw, I wouldn't want one anyhow.

[off rant]

[SergntMac]

Well said Astro, thanks.

I've dressed in both suits myself, answering the BS complaints, and investigating them. What you say is spoken truth, but most folks don't care.

Be safe out there my friend.

[DEFYANT]

Wow! AstroVic that was perfect. Like Mac said, most will not care. In fact, this may just generate false complaints against officers by those with "bruised" egos. Now they will know just how to screw with police....

....at the risk of being sued.

[Bigdogjim]

Well gang after 20+ years of travel (2,000,000 + miles) with the "big bus" in 49 out of 50 States and throw in Mexico & Canada all I can add is Police everwhere are doing a GREAT job, one I would not touch with a 10' pole.

If you drive far enough, long enough you will get a ticket. Pay it shut up and go on with your life:)

Thank the Heavens there are men & women who will watch over us each and every day.
Low pay, crappy hours God Bless 'em, I for one THANK THEM :up:

[duhtroll]

Please reread and find the error of your statement. :rolleyes:


You were speeding... end of story.. RAM

[duhtroll]

Nothing at all. That's kinda my point. If I'm speeding, give me a ticket. If I'm not, I'm not. It should be pretty clear.


Whats a "written warning" and what affect does it have on your driving privilege?

[duhtroll]

Again, this is kinda what I'm getting at. Thanks.


Not only that, but most speedometers only indicate in 5mph increments. (speed limits are also usually in 5mph/kph increments)
Anything in between where the needle points is a guess.

[duhtroll]

I never said I was making a "formal complaint" which to me indicates something like where I go down to HQ and fill out paperwork, submit evidence, pee in a cup or something.

I said I think he screwed up and it wasted a few minutes of my time and my passenger's, I felt harassed, and I wanted to tell someone about it - maybe even the officer himself if I could ever find him. As I said before he didn't have the decency to write his officer number/whatever on the card, nor sign it.

I guess I look at it this way. Why do I bother to say anything? Because he did. If it's important enough to stop me and yet not cite me, then it should be important enough for him to listem to my side of things. I don't argue with the guy on the side of the road -- I think that's inappropriate. However, asking him about it later shouldn't be of any harm.

I'm not about to start posting "screw cops" signs around. If stopping me shouldn't be such a big deal, then my comments shouldn't be, either.

As for not remembering me -- how many MMs do you think he's pulled over, since there are about 10 in the entire state? He'll know me, or at least my car and co-worker. ;)

And why should I worry about what effect my complaint might have? Not that I'm going to have him investigated . . . Everyone has to deal with complaints at their job. If I get enough of them I get fired, too. It's called life in the workplace. Be good at your job so you don't get them. If my comments make a difference in his career it means he has done other stuff to warrant the change.

If he's going to be vindictive about it, then he doesn't deserve to wear the badge.

-A


^^^ On that note, I want to share something with y'all. ^^^

Years ago, I received a formal complaint through Internal Affairs from a lady who said I was "harassing her son" because I had apparently issued him two - yes, count them, TWO - traffic citations six months apart.

The first citation was for 120 MPH in a 65 MPH zone if I remember correctly. He should've gone to jail for reckless driving, but I didn't want to give this 16 year-old kid a criminal record for what I figured was probably nothing more than a serious lapse of judgment.

The second time I stopped him, six months later, was for engaging in a contest of speed (i.e. drag racing), disregarding a red light, failing to signal a turn, and not wearing his seat belt. I only cited him for the drag racing and running the red light. The rest were warnings. (I should point out that I didn't even recognize the kid or his car when I pulled him over - it was nighttime on both contacts. Only after I started issuing the citation on the second stop did I put two-and-two together and realize the name sounded vaguely familiar.)

Anyhow, so his mom goes and files a complaint. She says that I must've had it out for her kid and that I was just stopping him because I was apparently jealous of his turbo Nissan 300ZX, or something to that effect.

The investigator asked her what she hoped would be done about the complaint. Her answer? She wanted the charges dismissed.

The investigator tells her that he can't do that. He explains that the charges still must be handled through the court system.

Weeks go by. In the meantime, I had to file written reports of my encounters with this kid, and explain everything in mind-numbing detail.

After everything was all said and done, the investigator told the lady that he didn't see any wrongdoing on my part. I was cleared.

The lady subsequently told the investigator that the only reason she filed the complaint was because she thought my department would dismiss the citations against her son. (Apparently, the town where she's from up North does that sort of thing. I digress.) She was worried that her son's auto insurance was be dropped or cost a few MORE thousand per year, so she hoped that filing a complaint would pressure me or my department to dismiss the charges.

The next week, I heard the lady took her son to the courthouse, where he pled guilty to all charges and paid about $1,000 in fines.

Now, why do I share this story with you?

Because, that complaint, as much bull***** as it was, has caused me numerous headaches over the years. Since I am a law enforcement officer and I have a license to be such through the State of Texas, I have been forced to disclose that complaint and provide documentation of such on several occasions. I had to disclose it when I applied to law school; I had to disclose it to the Texas Board of Law Examiners when I submitted my "Intent to Practice Law in Texas" request; I've had to disclose it on about 10 law enforcement job applications (when I decided to go on the job hunt and find a department that paid better); I've had to disclose it in polygraph examinations...you get the idea.

Needless to say, I've never had anything denied because of that complaint - I *was* cleared, after all! - but, it's been a recurring thorn in my A$$ for about 12 years now.

To my way of thinking, complaints should only be filed in cases of EXTREME injustice or unprofessional conduct. Formal complaints should not be taken lightly. You shouldn't file one merely because your ego got bruised, or you didn't like the fact that you got a citation (or a warning), or you didn't agree with the speed the officer said you were going (they have courtrooms for that sort of thing), or you felt that officer or this officer shouldn't have been driving so fast, or you saw two cruisers at the donut shop, or whatever.

Formal complaints have very serious consequences and should be carefully considered before being filed. It's not like complaining to the McDonald's manager that the drive-thru clerk messed up your order. Formal complaints can cause longterm headaches for police officers, and can sometimes cause problems if/when the officer seeks promotion opportunities, new jobs, etc.

Finally, not that this applies in the instant situation, but I should note that there have been many successful civil suits filed by officers against complainees who have filed a complaint for malicious purposes. I guess I should've sued that lady. God knows, I might've been the proud new owner of a turbo Nissan 300ZX.

Naw, I wouldn't want one anyhow.

[off rant]

[duhtroll]

There's no HQ in the town where I work. If he was on a call, he sure took his time when he got into town.

As for speeding up just to look at the car or any other reason, why should the rules be any different for him? I ask only because I'm confused as to why just because they are LEOs they can drive over the limit when they feel like it. I can't believe for a second it says that in the manual.


I agree with most of the comments from LEOs on here.

You probably were doing the speed he said you were doing. If not, it was probably nothing more than an honest mistake. He obviously wasn't interested in writing you a citation anyhow. (Mostly, written warnings serve no purpose other than to show the brass that you're actually out there making "contacts" with motorists!)

It was a minor deal, so don't sweat it. Heck, why in the world would you lodge a complaint against the guy??? He gave you a warning, and, from the sounds of it, was polite and professional along the way!

If you think he's harassing you, I would bet you're flat wrong. Most cops can't remember your name 5 minutes after they stop you. And, in my career, I can honestly say that I've never gone out on patrol and said to myself, "Hey, I think I'll find someone to harass this afternoon. Look! There goes one right there! That guy, in the Marauder! Get him! Follow him! Bust his nuts!"

He probably *was* hauling ass when he got behind you the second time - but it probably had nothing to do with you or your previous encounter. I'm pretty certain it wasn't so he could follow you and give you the ugly-eye treatment. Maybe he was going to a call? Or maybe he thought your car was badass and wanted to take a second look? Or maybe he just hauling ass like we're all inclined to do from time to time? Or maybe his sergeant just called him to the station to answer another B.S. complaint from a motorist whose feelings were hurt after a warning was issued? (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Bottom line, you probably took things the wrong way. That cop probably forgot about you 10 seconds after sending you on your way with a warning. And the warning....well, it's just that...a warning.

Have a nice day, sir. Drive safe. ;)

(Sorry, couldn't resist that one, either!)

[DEFYANT]

You don't have to like the answers to your questions, but I think you got them - in three different flavors.

As far as contacting the officer, that may not be a bad idea. If all you want is an answer to "why you" and the reason for the warning - not a ticket, then that would be the way to go.

Just be cool and calm. I've gladly spelled it out for MV operators - just not on the side of the road. Usually on the phone.

[03SILVERSTREAK]

WOW- for someone to get pulled over for alleged speeding and then given a warning , you sure get a little bent over it.

In my 20+ years of service and counting , I pull them over when they violated a traffic rule , sometimes I warn and admonished them and let them go on there merry way , but there,s no reason to have this sitting in the back of your head nawing at your feet. many of us get pulled over for one reason or another , those that violated a traffic rule get a summons and those that didn,t are given a W & A ( warn & Admonished ) .

Maybe he wanted to check your car out up close . hell i,ve been stoped several times and when heard the reason Im just polite with the uniformed officer. I then talk ( not yell or hit him with 21 questions as to the stop or the usual " what rights do U have to stopping me" ) as to the traffic violation he claims.

You can,t just get pissed off over a car stop unless he saw something that was done in his present that gave him reason to pull you over. Remember this my friend if you give an officer attitude like your an attorney on the streets in a car stop he will act professional towards you , but make no mistake 1) he will issue you that summons. 2) he will remember you very well. 3) for as long as you drive through his jurisdiction , everything about you and your ride better be squared away , and 4) he will tell everyone at his command during rollcall to be on the lookout for your ride and to check you out if your 1 MPH over the speed limit or bald tires or loud exhaust or tinted windows ETC ETC
You get what I mean.

Just let it go and enjoy the fact you received a warning and not a summons that would have cost you points and crank your Ins:payments.

Be Safe All...

[RCSignals]

A- I suspect the premise that he issued you a warning citation was because of what has been stated: It was Holiday time motorist awareness, and he gets credit for the warning.
If he wanted to cite you he would have.
Are you more upset that he appeared again later?

Try writing out how you feel as if it's a letter to him. At the end of it you may just feel better enough to not send it.

[AstroVic]

First you said...



3) I am going to at some point, in person, complain about this but I need to know what to say and to whom. This is harassment.

And then you said...


I never said I was making a "formal complaint" which to me indicates something like where I go down to HQ and fill out paperwork, submit evidence, pee in a cup or something.

Going in person to complain usually is referred to as a "formal complaint," particularly if you make a written statement and swear to it (an affidavit).

I find it bizarre that you would think it necessary to drive all the way down to the station to lodge your complaint for something so trivial. In fact, let me put it this way:

When you file a complaint (formal or informal) against an officer who just gave you a WARNING, I can assure you that the officer will not be so likely to give warnings to the next motorist he pulls over - which might end up being YOU!

You see, it goes like this - and I learned this a LONG time ago in my career - if I stop you and give you a verbal or written warning and you complain on me because you didn't agree with the *reason* for the stop, then I have to fade your bull***** complaint. However, if I write you a citation and you don't agree with the *reason* for the stop, then any supervisor worth his salt will tell you to take your complaint to the courtroom in the form of a "not guilty" plea.

I'm not personally attacking you, so please don't take it that way. All I'm saying is, it's people like you who cause officers to become hardened and callous toward the motoring public.

[AstroVic]

And why should I worry about what effect my complaint might have? Not that I'm going to have him investigated . . . Everyone has to deal with complaints at their job. If I get enough of them I get fired, too. It's called life in the workplace. Be good at your job so you don't get them. If my comments make a difference in his career it means he has done other stuff to warrant the change.

What exactly do you think is the purpose of a complaint if it's not investigated (at least to some degree or another)?

And as far as being good at your job, I still don't understand exactly how this officer who pulled you over was *not* being good at his job. Was he unprofessional in his demeanor toward you? Was he rude and abrasive? I think not.

Your grievances amount to this:

1. You don't agree with his assessment of your speed.
2. He showed up behind you a short while later and you don't know why he did this, so you suspect it must have been some form of harassment.

If I was that guy's supervisor and you came in with your non-formal, in person complaint, I would listen politely and then I would tell you this:

1. "He didn't issue you a citation, did he? No? Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, sir, but oftentimes motorists don't drive down the roadway staring at their speedometer so it's possible you were not aware of your speed at the precise instant Officer X observed it on his radar. (Radar detectors usually have some amount of lag response to them, by the way.) Oh, and sometimes the speedometers in a person's car are not always accurate. Our radar units are accurate and they are calibrated for accuracy at the beginning and end of every shift. Did you say your tires are not the stock size? Yeah, you see, sometimes that messes up your speedometer, too. (And it's not simply a matter of being off by 1 MPH, either. The variance increases exponentially at higher speeds - at 10 MPH your speed might appear to be 9 MPH and at 65 MPH your speed might appear to be 60 MPH.)"

2. "You say he showed up behind you at some later point and you feel this was harassment? Hmmmm...did the officer pull you over again? No? Well, sir, don't you think if he was 'harassing' you he would've pulled you over again? What would be the purpose of catching up to you just to 'look' at you again? Well, rest assured, sir, I'll let the officer know about your complaints and I'll tell him to be sure he's 100% certain about your speed the next time he sees you. And if I were you, I'd take that car and get the accuracy of that speedometer checked out. Have a nice day and drive safe out there."

[AstroVic]

As for speeding up just to look at the car or any other reason, why should the rules be any different for him? I ask only because I'm confused as to why just because they are LEOs they can drive over the limit when they feel like it. I can't believe for a second it says that in the manual.

So, now you have yet another complaint?

Look, I don't know you, but you seem like a decent guy and all. As a friendly piece of advice, you're going to kill yourself with a heart attack if you don't get over this stuff. I mean, you're getting wayyyyy bent out of shape about this.

I used to be like that and I imagine that I wasn't a very fun person to be around sometimes. Now I've learned to let things roll off my sleeve a lot easier. The truth is, life's way too short to get worked up about the small stuff. Just relax and enjoy life. Heck, take the $150 that citation would have cost you (had the officer issued you one) and buy something nice for your wife (or your car). Or buy a gag to stuff in your coworkers mouth. :)

Cheers.

:beer:

[Bluerauder]

Yeah, I'd let it go and not lose any more sleep over this. You need to pick and choose your battles .... and this one just ain't worth it.

[duhtroll]

1) Talking to the officer in question is rather INformal. You're reading between the lines where there's no need to do so.

2) Again I say to you and to others, if he's going to be on the lookout for the guy who disagreed with him and tell his buddies the same thing, in other words be vindictive, that's his problem. I drive safely and he's going to waste an awful lot of time figuring out how to find when and where I drive just to follow me around.

Well, that, and if he IS going to be that way, that is, harass me after the fact, then all the more reason for me to mention something now.

3) If me telling him he made a mistake is going to make him more callous to the public, again, not my problem.

I'll turn that one around on you. Why the heck is it such a big deal for someone to say "you screwed up" just because you're an LEO? Deal with it already. I'm being told just to shut up and let it go, but what I am asking about shouldn't cause any harm to anyone, and to be honest is the main reason I'm pursuing this still. LEOs are not above reproach because they are LEOs.

People can be questioned - it doesn't matter who you are. When authority is blind and doesn't ever admit they make mistakes, well, you have our country in its current foreign predicament.

Did I say I'm going to haul his ass in front of a judge? No.

Did I say I'm going to see that that so-and-so is suspended and how DARE he ever approach me? No. Matter of fact I said quite the opposite, if you check.

I'd say I'm not the one bent out of shape.



First you said...



And then you said...



Going in person to complain usually is referred to as a "formal complaint," particularly if you make a written statement and swear to it (an affidavit).

I find it bizarre that you would think it necessary to drive all the way down to the station to lodge your complaint for something so trivial. In fact, let me put it this way:

When you file a complaint (formal or informal) against an officer who just gave you a WARNING, I can assure you that the officer will not be so likely to give warnings to the next motorist he pulls over - which might end up being YOU!

You see, it goes like this - and I learned this a LONG time ago in my career - if I stop you and give you a verbal or written warning and you complain on me because you didn't agree with the *reason* for the stop, then I have to fade your bull***** complaint. However, if I write you a citation and you don't agree with the *reason* for the stop, then any supervisor worth his salt will tell you to take your complaint to the courtroom in the form of a "not guilty" plea.

I'm not personally attacking you, so please don't take it that way. All I'm saying is, it's people like you who cause officers to become hardened and callous toward the motoring public.

[duhtroll]

If he says I'm speeding when I'm not, and then speeds himself for no good reason? Yeah, I'd call that a complaint. I know its a double-standard in our society, but that doesn't make it right.

I believe the only reason I didn't get a ticket is because I had a corroborating witness in the car. They are ticket happy around here, like in many places lately.


So, now you have yet another complaint?

Look, I don't know you, but you seem like a decent guy and all. As a friendly piece of advice, you're going to kill yourself with a heart attack if you don't get over this stuff. I mean, you're getting wayyyyy bent out of shape about this.

I used to be like that and I imagine that I wasn't a very fun person to be around sometimes. Now I've learned to let things roll off my sleeve a lot easier. The truth is, life's way too short to get worked up about the small stuff. Just relax and enjoy life. Heck, take the $150 that citation would have cost you (had the officer issued you one) and buy something nice for your wife (or your car). Or buy a gag to stuff in your coworkers mouth. :)

Cheers.

:beer:

[duhtroll]

AND - I have to add, again, that I have adjusted for the tire size.

Even if I hadn't, it's 1 MPH off at 60, (actually 0.9 IIRC) so using your calculations, it's off less than that at 55.

The speedo is correct.

[AstroVic]

This is hopeless.

Good luck anyhow. May you be successful in your quest for justice.

[duhtroll]

And again, you're making this out to be more than it is.

What I'm learning from this thread that everyone should abide by is "don't ever question anyone in positions of authority."


This is hopeless.

Good luck anyhow. May you be successful in your quest for justice.

[MM2004]

If he says I'm speeding when I'm not, and then speeds himself for no good reason? Yeah, I'd call that a complaint. I know its a double-standard in our society, but that doesn't make it right.

I believe the only reason I didn't get a ticket is because I had a corroborating witness in the car. They are ticket happy around here, like in many places lately.

The last ticket I received was about 3 - 4 years ago. I WAS speeding, and wound up getting the ticket 'fixed' if you will. Cost me $100.00 to have it removed as if it never happened. The fine, had I chose to pay it, would have been $125.50 and 4 points against my license. The officer could not have been more polite. Nor could I have been.

You said above the LEO's around your area are 'ticket happy'. You did not receive a ticket, therefore I do not see an issue.

You were not cited. Therefore your insurance will not be impacted. Cost savings all the way around.

Right or wrong, if you apprach the officer or his CO about this, there could possibly be circumstances down the road that may make you wish you would have said nothing.

I would let this go as I wish I only received a warning on my last stop.

But I WAS guilty. ;)

Mike.

[wsmylie]

This is hopeless.

Good luck anyhow. May you be successful in your quest for justice.
Yes AstroVic... came to the same conclusion a page or two back. But thanks for giving it a try buddy.:)

[duhtroll]

The wife of another co-worker received a ticket on the same road that morning. Unmarked car in front of her in the 2-lane going 50 MPH. She passed him, She got a ticket for 58/55 while passing.

Granted, her fault for going over and not noticing the license plate, but setting people up going 50 on a busy road in rush hour?

There are days when highway 20 is known as the "cash register" or "ATM" around here.

Look, the law is the law and we can agree on that. However, try and tell me these piddly little stops are about safety. They aren't, and we all know it.

It's about money. In my case, the guy knew he didn't have anything on me or I would have a ticket.

If that sounds "conspiracy theory-ish" to you guys, then fine. But these stories persist for a reason -- because they happen daily.

Let's see if we can get a bunch more of those "me too" posts like Smylie . . . :rolleyes:

[wsmylie]

You're welcome Duhtroll, my plesure buddy. Was going to post something of more substance earlier-on but it appears that Mac, Charlie-Defyant, AstroVic and a couple other guys have already pretty much said it all. Best of luck though on what ever avenue you decide to follow on this.:)

[Bigdogjim]

What was the song...."I fought the Law and the Law won"

Yeah! That's it.

Good luck on your path to the truth!

[duhtroll]

Hey, I'll put my driving record up against just about anyone's.

Would you rather I post stories about f-tarded escapades and "HOO BOY I didn't get caught?!"

Please.


What was the song...."I fought the Law and the Law won"

Yeah! That's it.

Good luck on your path to the truth!

[Marauderjack]

Andrew....

You must at this time observe the "First Rule Of Holes".....When In One.....STOP DIGGIN' !!!;)

Let it be and move on....These folks are gonna mess with you until you REALLY get MAD!!!:shake:

BTW.....The "First Rule Of Holes" applies to almost every situation in life and works EVERY TIME!!!:bows:

Forgedaboudit and have a Happy Weekend!!:beer:

Marauderjack:bandit:

[duhtroll]

I'm just messin'.

It takes a good deal more than this for anger. After all, this is the internet, and what's that old saying?




Andrew....

You must at this time observe the "First Rule Of Holes".....When In One.....STOP DIGGIN' !!!;)

Let it be and move on....These folks are gonna mess with you until you REALLY get MAD!!!:shake:

BTW.....The "First Rule Of Holes" applies to almost every situation in life and works EVERY TIME!!!:bows:

Forgedaboudit and have a Happy Weekend!!:beer:

Marauderjack:bandit:

[Blackened300a]

A few minutes of your time was wasted, but look at the bright side, No Money laid out for a ticket , no points on your license, no wasting even more time fighting in court, and no jacked up insurance rate.
If I was in your positition, The LEO could have screamed and yelled at me for going a "Little Fast" but at the end of the ordeal, if I pulled away with nothing more then a verbal beating, I consider that a good day.

What answer were you expecting to hear from other LEO's in this forum?

[jgc61sr2002]

IMO you are making a mountian out of a moll hill.
Let it go.

[Bigdogjim]

Hey, I'll put my driving record up against just about anyone's.

Well over 2,000,000 miles in a tour bus alone not counting cars and school bus. Yeah I'll take that bet:):):)

[03SILVERSTREAK]

I'm just messin'.

It takes a good deal more than this for anger. After all, this is the internet, and what's that old saying?

" And the beat goes on " :shake:

[Alan]

So, does this mean you don't want to see my new 35th Anniversary 350Z?
:burnout:



God knows, I might've been the proud new owner of a turbo Nissan 300ZX.

Naw, I wouldn't want one anyhow.

[AstroVic]

So, does this mean you don't want to see my new 35th Anniversary 350Z?
:burnout:

Hey, Alan, what's up bro?

Are you serious? You got one? I'd love to see your car, but you have to come see my Marauder in return. ;)

[Alan]

Dead serious! She is a sweet ride!

I've been meaning to come over and see your beast but moving into my new house has taken all my time. We've been settling in over the T-giving break.

I know your schedule is a LOT more hectic than mine..so just give me a call and I'll come over when it's convenient for you.


Hey, Alan, what's up bro?

Are you serious? You got one? I'd love to see your car, but you have to come see my Marauder in return. ;)

[MeanMachine]

HA, I don't think CHP gives warnings :shake:. Count your lucky stars, even if he was flexing his muscles.

[ctrlraven]

Few months ago I got a warning for running a traffic stop light. It was middle of the night, raining like cats and dogs so I was going maybe about 30-35 mph in a 50mph zone. A vehicle driving in the other direction without any lights on caught my attention for a second and when I looked back the way I was driving about 30ft from the traffic signal and it was turning yellow, hit the hazrads and gave it a little gas to get threw intersection and my luck a county cop was sitting to my right waiting at the light. I knew I was going to be pulled over and I was. Cop was extremely polite, I had explained to him that I saw a vehicle without his lights on going the other way and someone almost ran into them and when I looked back I saw the light change and I knew either way slamming on the brakes or giving it a little gas I would of still been in the intersection. The officer gave me a warning and told me I made a good judgement call with putting on the hazards and that I wasn't flying threw the intersection. A real ticket for this would of been $140 which the officer told me and I polite told him thank you very much officer and we both went our ways.

This is something a guy wrote on the SVT forum


1. You decided to break the law, not the officer!
2. The officer didnt write or vote for the law/statute, nor did he recommend its content!
3. The officer doesnt have better things to do than to enforce the law, even if you dont agree with that particular law.
4. Believe me when I say any L.E.O. would rather stop a rape, murder, burglary, etc. rather than listen to you complain about being stopped for no front plate, tinted windows, 7 mph over, failure to yield, speed not consistant with conditions, etc.!

Additionally, if you give an officer Probable Cause for a traffic stop you have invited the encounter. The officer is not picking on you or harassing you.

Traffic stops are where a lot of very bad criminals are caught. It is this encounter where warrants are discovered as well as drugs and weapons. The simple traffic stop often leads to arrests for serious felonies. So, the next time you are stopped because you invited the encounter and then let go with a warning, dont come here and complain about the officer, thank them and be done with it!!!

Thanks to Adam at SVT

[TheMoor]

That LEO is an ass hole! take him to court! I was pulled over for almost the same reason, I had the a good time telling him his job after I I.D. myself, I really think it'a our MM"s.
signed, one of the good LEO's.

[DeepSea117]

Happy one year to you, happy one year to you!

What's with the spate of really old threads coming back to life? Night of the Living Thread?

[Richy04]

I know its an old thread but, I will tell you this..

The Stalker Dual and the DSR are sets that have two antennas, one facing forward and one facing rearward. This set can do stationary radar (parked) and be set for oncoming cars or departing cars on one of these antennas at a time. So you can literaly weed out the cars going south from the cars going north for example to the front or rear of your vehicle.

A neat trick is to have your car on the center median and facing oncoming traffic but have your rear antenna on and watching the cars on the other side in your mirror :-p

You can also use this set for moving radar too, it will also weed out vehicles based on direction. So if you are on a two lane road, you can observe cars traveling away from your car or towards your car on either the front or rear antenna. From left to right on the three position display it will show the offenders speed, the locked speed and the patrol car speed.

Its a sweet set once you learn how to use it but moving radar is easily defeated by a good detector like a Valentine or escort as it is always on when driving. But most detectors will not pick up 30+ ghz sets all that quickly in instant on mode as the band is very wide and must be scanned.