Answer to IAT & FRPS

[sailsmen]

http://www.motorcitymarauders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557&page=3

[RCSignals]

Thanks

I must say I am very disappointed in people over how this has all been blown out of proportion, and how it has been handled.
A few don't surprise me, they have had the same agenda for years, and are hyper sensitive when it comes to any question of their choice of SC. It really is too bad because it destroys any hope of intelligent and adult discussion.
The answers should have been handled where the original question was asked for one, not taken somewhere else.

[Smokie]

It is very disappointing that some very significant and important information was disclosed in another forum, I like to learn and improve my knowledge of my car and all the modifications I have done to it.

Information and knowledge should be shared for the benefit of all of us, is too bad because of so much discourtesy and lack of basic respect information that should be available here...is not to be found.

[RCSignals]

It is very disappointing that some very significant and important information was disclosed in another forum, I like to learn and improve my knowledge of my car and all the modifications I have done to it.

Information and knowledge should be shared for the benefit of all of us, is too bad because of so much discourtesy and lack of basic respect information that should be available here...is not to be found.

Yes, and that discourtesy and lack of basic respect is not owned by only one person, despite the apparent opinions.
There may be hope for a few, others will need to prove themselves. It's yet to be seen.

[Hotrauder]

Yes, and that discourtesy and lack of basic respect is not owned by only one person, despite the apparent opinions.
There may be hope for a few, others will need to prove themselves. It's yet to be seen.

My mother always told me, "housekeeping starts at home." She is 86 and wise beyond her years. Dennis

[RCSignals]

My mother always told me, "housekeeping starts at home." She is 86 and wise beyond her years. Dennis

Yes Dennis, and in this case, that applies on many levels

[bigslim]

It is very disappointing that some very significant and important information was disclosed in another forum, I like to learn and improve my knowledge of my car and all the modifications I have done to it.

Information and knowledge should be shared for the benefit of all of us, is too bad because of so much discourtesy and lack of basic respect information that should be available here...is not to be found.
There is a lot of information on all boards. I belong to at least 10 different forums so I can learn about things. Everyone is welcome to join any of these boards.

[Smokie]

There is a lot of information on all boards. I belong to at least 10 different forums so I can learn about things. Everyone is welcome to join any of these boards.

Darryl when I found this forum back in July of 2002 I had just bought my Marauder and was thirsty for knowledge and information about the same, I waited 2 months before I joined here because of my inherent distrust of the "Internet" it took me a long time to come to trust the idea of sharing personal information over this medium and to actually meet people "thru the internet" an idea that back in 2002 I thought was weird at best and dangerous at worse.

This forum and by that I mean it's people are now very real to me and I care about a great number of real people I met thru MM.net, regardless of how many forums there are out there MM.net is "home". It makes me very sad to live in such an unhappy home...does that make sense to you? Javier.

[RCSignals]

Darryl when I found this forum back in July of 2002 I had just bought my Marauder and was thirsty for knowledge and information about the same, I waited 2 months before I joined here because of my inherent distrust of the "Internet" it took me a long time to come to trust the idea of sharing personal information over this medium and to actually meet people "thru the internet" an idea that back in 2002 I thought was weird at best and dangerous at worse.

This forum and by that I mean it's people are now very real to me and I care about a great number of real people I met thru MM.net, regardless of how many forums there are out there MM.net is "home". It makes me very sad to live in such an unhappy home...does that make sense to you? Javier.

That's very true Javier.
This has nothing to do with how many Boards exist. In this case, a specific question was asked here, yet to find the answer given to that question one has to be given a link to another Board.
There is something inherently wrong with that.

[FordNut]

...a specific question was asked here, yet to find the answer given to that question one has to be given a link to another Board.
There is something inherently wrong with that.

So true...

[MERCMAN]

Yes Dennis, and in this case, that applies on many levels



http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=32462

[FordNut]

How about this, upgrade to Trilogy IAT coming?

http://www.motorcitymarauders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=796&page=3

What's the answer to post #26...

[FordNut]

Almost every other Ford/Mustang forum I visit is run by the owner of a performance shop. Their competitors place ads there too. What is so different about Marauders and the Marauder website?

[Agent M79]

It really is too bad because it destroys any hope of intelligent and adult discussion.
The answers should have been handled where the original question was asked for one, not taken somewhere else.

It would have been good had Jerry addressed the question here as well. I expect there are a fair number of his customers here that are not visitors to motorcitymarauders.com.

It doesn't destroy any hope of intelligent and adult discussion, however. Not that I am a judge of the technical parts of the conversation, it does seem to be getting discussed in a largely intelligent and adult fashion on motorcitymarauders.com.


It is very disappointing that some very significant and important information was disclosed in another forum, I like to learn and improve my knowledge of my car and all the modifications I have done to it.

Information and knowledge should be shared for the benefit of all of us, is too bad because of so much discourtesy and lack of basic respect information that should be available here...is not to be found.

It is a lamentable situation. I agree.

For now and the foreseeable future, mercurymarauder.net won't be the sole repository of this information. I expect there will be some cross-posting though as a good number of members of motorcitymarauders.com are still members here as well and as time goes on I expect there will be more. I see a cross-linking / cross-posting circus in the future.



Yes, and that discourtesy and lack of basic respect is not owned by only one person, despite the apparent opinions.
There may be hope for a few, others will need to prove themselves. It's yet to be seen.

RC, I have no idea who the specific people are you are referring to here or who needs to prove themselves. I am resisting the urge to speculate.


My mother always told me, "housekeeping starts at home." She is 86 and wise beyond her years. Dennis

Again, I don't know who this refers to.


Yes Dennis, and in this case, that applies on many levels

My resistence does have limits. Who? What levels? Am I missing something that matters to this thread? Where the hell is my decoder ring when I need it? Can I say 'hell' here?


This forum and by that I mean it's people are now very real to me and I care about a great number of real people I met thru MM.net, regardless of how many forums there are out there MM.net is "home". It makes me very sad to live in such an unhappy home...does that make sense to you? Javier.

I don't know if it made sense to Darryl (who this comment was directed) but it makes sense to me. I don't like it much either. It's hard to have friends and interests on all sides of this.


That's very true Javier.
This has nothing to do with how many Boards exist. In this case, a specific question was asked here, yet to find the answer given to that question one has to be given a link to another Board.
There is something inherently wrong with that.

Bravo! Yes. A specific question to be answered by a specific person. Forgive me if I don't perpetuate the usage of vague wink-wink nudge-nudge references to specific people and websites but the person that this entire thread should be directed is Jerry Barnes.

Jerry made the decision to relocate his part of the discussion to motorcitymarauders.com. The reasons for that I am not privy to and, again, I resist the desire to speculate.

I presume he is still reading over here but in the event that the information that is being sought by this thread is not present in the fashion or place of your choosing, I'd drop a note to Jerry Barnes. Or email him. Or call him.

[Jerry Barnes]

I'm here! I have not left! I just paid for another year of involvement in this site and until recently felt I was treated fairly. There have been a few things that have come to my attention recently regarding actions that occur behind the scenes that bother me. I do not want to jump to conclusions, but I have had some very serious discussions with a couple of the owners of the MM.net site. The issues are very real and very serious in my opinion.

But, rest assured, if I feel that I am not getting fair treatment on this site, I will pull the plug on this thing in a heartbeat!!! I have made a lot of good friends here and I want to keep my involvement with MM.Net. I pay good money to be here, if I feel that there are subversive actitivites occurring, it is in my best interest to get out of the relationship. If any one of the owners feels I am not a reputable vendor, just call me and I will be gone.

I am not afraid of a fight, but I am afraid of a lynch mob. IF THE SAME TROUBLE MAKERS ARE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE TO PARTICIPATE IN WHAT I CONSIDER A VALUEABLE RESOURCE(MM.NET), WHY WOULD I STAY?

Our product is "ROCK SOLID". I will support our customers and our products to my detriment and expense.

ONCE AGAIN, A valid question was asked, and I will respond wherever I am given a fair chance to explain our design direction at the time. On my schedule, not theirs.

So, I am not dodging the IAT question, I am preparing an intelligent response to a couple of peoples concerns. Customers cars are not blowing up and we continue to sell our product to customers without fear of failures.

And if the membership of MM.Net want us to leave, just say so, and I will be gone!

Thanks

Jerry

[martyo]

And if the membership of MM.Net want us to leave, just say so, and I will be gone!

Don't you dare! :argue:

[Agent M79]

And if the membership of MM.Net want us to leave, just say so, and I will be gone!

Nope. Not this 1/3000th anyway.

[Tallboy]

After what has been allowed to transpire, I say "leave."

[FordNut]

And if the membership of MM.Net want us to leave, just say so, and I will be gone!


The above quote is far from what the members want. I believe most comments I've heard are just the opposite. The questions about your kit were asked here, at mm.net which is where the vast majority of your customers found out about Trilogy. You made a decision to post your reply at mcm.net rather than here. Makes no sense. It's kind of like someone criticized your setup and you ran off instead of standing here and defending yourself.

You do have a great kit, it is reliable and meets its design criteria perfectly. Anybody who is pushing the system to the point of needing to move the IAT is going to blow up a stock bottom end anyway. On the other hand, when a stock motor is worn out or blown up and is replaced by a built motor, the system could really benefit from the relocation so the motor can be pushed to higher levels.

[Tallboy]

I posted this in the other thread as well. If any of our customers feel they want or need the IAT2 upgrade, we will install it for free. Just drop me a line.

[Smokie]

Jerry I cannot speak for the owners, certainly not for the MM.net membership, only for myself, I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I know this much; you as a person and as business owner have enriched this forum tremendously.

I have never been witness to a conversation "ever" where you or your product were been maligned, your reputation to the best of my knowledge is second to none in this forum, by the way I do mingle with members in very large numbers from all over the country, it is my opinion only but it is based on a larger "sample" than the average member here.

Your product, the sales and customer satisfaction speak for themselves and are beyond question. My satisfaction with your product exceeds all expectations I had prior to the sale. So now I must address the only harm to your reputation that I know of "by proxy" some of your customers that love your product so much that have actually said or implied on this site that anyone that installed in their car anything other than a Trilogy Kit is stupid...yes this has happened and it created ill will between members that carries on until today. This is what I mean by harming you by "proxy", you never made such statements but some folks assumed you perhaps condoned the implication.

I have presented my thoughts as even handedly as I am capable of, in my book you are a great guy with a great product, nothing to apologize for and I hope you will continue to grace our forum with your participation. Javier.

[RUSTY]

I come to this sight after a hard day of work to relax and share and learn about our beloved MM. Different mods and power build ups are what i want to read and see discussed. Instead i get to read alot of childish bickering.
The more vendors the better. Thats what i want.The MM is a limited production run and there are not as many aftermarket mods as say a mustang. sorry about my rant.

[Jerry Barnes]

The above quote is far from what the members want. I believe most comments I've heard are just the opposite. The questions about your kit were asked here, at mm.net which is where the vast majority of your customers found out about Trilogy. You made a decision to post your reply at mcm.net rather than here. Makes no sense. It's kind of like someone criticized your setup and you ran off instead of standing here and defending yourself.

You do have a great kit, it is reliable and meets its design criteria perfectly. Anybody who is pushing the system to the point of needing to move the IAT is going to blow up a stock bottom end anyway. On the other hand, when a stock motor is worn out or blown up and is replaced by a built motor, the system could really benefit from the relocation so the motor can be pushed to higher levels.

Fordnut, and I feel disrespectful calling you that, But I agree with you completely! I don't want you to think I am dodging a very valid question and taking my ball and going home. That's not it. Some of the other members said it for me. If this were anyone elses product and reputation, this thing would have been killed quickly. I am not trying to hide a flaw, or give people an inferior product, or cover up a problem.

I just want the time and opportunity to do my homework. Because in this environment whatever you say will get immediately taken apart for review. So, I could give a very brief answer and then get my ass kicked all over again. When I answer the question, I want several people I respect to review it and tell me they agree. I would like some quantitative information to go along with it.

So, if I feel the deck is stacked against me, I will go where my response will be fairly presented. That's all!

Thanks

Jerry

[MERCMAN]

In light of Jerry's response I am moving this thread to the trilogy forum.
This is all about Trilogy and Jerry should have the option to edit and/or delete posts in this thread.

Jerry, please note that the owners have no desire to see your departure from this site. Your work with the Trilogy has been a boon to many on this site and it is a tribute to you to have the number of zealous (and satisfied) customers on this site. We hope to continue MM.net's association with Trilogy Motorsports and look forward to help you with any problems you might encounter here

[Jerry Barnes]

Jerry I cannot speak for the owners, certainly not for the MM.net membership, only for myself, I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I know this much; you as a person and as business owner have enriched this forum tremendously.

I have never been witness to a conversation "ever" where you or your product were been maligned, your reputation to the best of my knowledge is second to none in this forum, by the way I do mingle with members in very large numbers from all over the country, it is my opinion only but it is based on a larger "sample" than the average member here.

Your product, the sales and customer satisfaction speak for themselves and are beyond question. My satisfaction with your product exceeds all expectations I had prior to the sale. So now I must address the only harm to your reputation that I know of "by proxy" some of your customers that love your product so much that have actually said or implied on this site that anyone that installed in their car anything other than a Trilogy Kit is stupid...yes this has happened and it created ill will between members that carries on until today. This is what I mean by harming you by "proxy", you never made such statements but some folks assumed you perhaps condoned the implication.

I have presented my thoughts as even handedly as I am capable of, in my book you are a great guy with a great product, nothing to apologize for and I hope you will continue to grace our forum with your participation. Javier.

Javier,

I have read many of the posts you have made on this and other subjects. Your input is very valuable and the manner in which you present it is excellent. You are a good friend and customer.

All the Supercharger products for our Marauders are good products. They approach a performance upgrade from different prospectives. You have never heard me say, Buy Mine, There's is Crap! I remember a cuple of years ago we had similar discussion and heated debates about superchargers. It is up to the customers to DO THEIR HOMEWORK when spending that kind of money on a performance product. I know Dennis, I know the guys at PowerWorks, I know the guys at ProCharger. We talk at the track. No one argues about who's product is better. We all get along. I am good friends with Marty, and he does not have a Trilogy kit.

So, I think there are the same people that like to stir the pot. I for one will no longer stay on the same web sites with these people. It's too stressful, too time consuming and too disruptive to my life. I am getting tired of this. I want to hang out with good friends and enjoy my cars. That's it!

I value your input more then you know, Javier.

Jerry

[RCSignals]

Jerry I cannot speak for the owners, certainly not for the MM.net membership, only for myself, I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. I know this much; you as a person and as business owner have enriched this forum tremendously.

I have never been witness to a conversation "ever" where you or your product were been maligned, your reputation to the best of my knowledge is second to none in this forum, by the way I do mingle with members in very large numbers from all over the country, it is my opinion only but it is based on a larger "sample" than the average member here.

Your product, the sales and customer satisfaction speak for themselves and are beyond question. My satisfaction with your product exceeds all expectations I had prior to the sale. So now I must address the only harm to your reputation that I know of "by proxy" some of your customers that love your product so much that have actually said or implied on this site that anyone that installed in their car anything other than a Trilogy Kit is stupid...yes this has happened and it created ill will between members that carries on until today. This is what I mean by harming you by "proxy", you never made such statements but some folks assumed you perhaps condoned the implication.

I have presented my thoughts as even handedly as I am capable of, in my book you are a great guy with a great product, nothing to apologize for and I hope you will continue to grace our forum with your participation. Javier.


I agree completely.

[JMan]

Jerry,
For those that did not get to see the responses in the vaporized thread, a brief summation of my post:

IAT1 does not have the calibration in the PCM to work after charge compression. It may even be detrimental due to excessive enleanment under boost (Very ungood!).

That said:

Although I'm extraordinarily novice when it comes to HiPo aftermarket tuning, I am extremely familiar with factory calibration tables and mapping. Moving the sensor isn't the ticket! It is better off where it is and inferring the compressed Air Charge Temperature.

I respect your getting the facts straight before making a knee-jerk response to an interesting question. The fact that you're not a tuner or tuning expert will obviously require some research time. I respect that greatly! What you do is build great products for a great car. Hopefully you will rise above the snide and remain a welcome guest to those of us who respect you and your products. I personally don't have a supercharger and I've only had a MM for two weeks, but I appreciate all that you bring to the table in this (formerly) informal forum.

The info brought to the table by that tuning expert at MCM was tremendous. He seems to think recalibrating IAT1 to work in a boost environment will do the trick. He is certainly correct, but it is going to take some research time to make the tables applicable to all conditions - both grandma and John Force driving styles as well as Florida and the Canadian Rockies climatologically! It is but a small piece of a very large equation.

Thanks for sticking with this. I realize one play can win or lose a game, but that play has a tremendous number of variables within itself! Don't settle for three points, ignore the interference, take your time and go for seven!

Bravo to you sir! My 1/3000th.

J

[Jerry Barnes]

Jerry,
For those that did not get to see the responses in the vaporized thread, a brief summation of my post:

IAT1 does not have the calibration in the PCM to work after charge compression. It may even be detrimental due to excessive enleanment under boost (Very ungood!).

That said:

Although I'm extraordinarily novice when it comes to HiPo aftermarket tuning, I am extremely familiar with factory calibration tables and mapping. Moving the sensor isn't the ticket! It is better off where it is and inferring the compressed Air Charge Temperature.

I respect your getting the facts straight before making a knee-jerk response to an interesting question. The fact that you're not a tuner or tuning expert will obviously require some research time. I respect that greatly! What you do is build great products for a great car. Hopefully you will rise above the snide and remain a welcome guest to those of us who respect you and your products. I personally don't have a supercharger and I've only had a MM for two weeks, but I appreciate all that you bring to the table in this (formerly) informal forum.

The info brought to the table by that tuning expert at MCM was tremendous. He seems to think recalibrating IAT1 to work in a boost environment will do the trick. He is certainly correct, but it is going to take some research time to make the tables applicable to all conditions - both grandma and John Force driving styles as well as Florida and the Canadian Rockies climatologically! It is but a small piece of a very large equation.

Thanks for sticking with this. I realize one play can win or lose a game, but that play has a tremendous number of variables within itself! Don't settle for three points, ignore the interference, take your time and go for seven!

Bravo to you sir! My 1/3000th.

J

Thanks JMan, it is appreciated!