Supercharging cons....

[Raudermaster]

This is to all you engine guru's, and all you S/C guys. Hopefully by spring time if finances allow I will be joing the joyful club of boost. Now, there are some guys at work, one in particular, that has been around engines since he was 10 years old. He's built well over 800 blower motors that are still running to this day and is very knowledgeable when it comes to supercharging. He is a die hard Chevy guy so there are occasional ball busting's towards me since I'm a Ford guy. Now, I told him about s/cing the MM, and he thinks it's a bad idea unless I do pistons and rods. He doesn't think my engine can handle a lot of boost. I mean, I don't plan on running a ton of boost. If anything, I'll probably run 8 all the time ( I can't remember what is the max limit for our engines) But, technically, is he right? I mean I've told him there are guys on here who have installed their blower when their MM's had like 10k on them and now have close to 40k on them with no issues that I know of. So, why can our engines handle it, but he doesn't think so?

[O's Fan Rich]

What's he consider a lot of boost?

In theory, i agree with him, but actual factual real life proves otherwise..... because it's in the TUNE...

[ckadiddle]

From what I have read here on mm.net the stock engine will handle a s/c easily with no issues. Stick with one of our site vendors who knows the MM's engine and you'll get a safe s/c tune that will do no harm.

[sailsmen]

S/C an engine does not necessarily increase the peak load on the pistons and rods.

It does increase the duration of the peak loads.

I have 30+K and 35+ S/C 10 psi runs on an engine that had 44K miles and over 100 runs N/A.

She does not burn a drop of oil.

[KillJoy]

Before I purchased mine, I asked a lot of Q's from a lot of folks. It came to this, w/ a few exceptions (and I am sure they will chime in ;) )

<10psi = All Good
=10psi = Good.....but may go Bad
>10psi = Will go Bad.....eventually....and depending on driving

My car makes right at 10psi @ 6200RPM. I have only see that high of RPM on the Dyno, so...I feel comfortable. With that being said....I am beginning the cash storing for IF and WHEN things go south :up:

KillJoy

[FordNut]

Before I purchased mine, I asked a lot of Q's from a lot of folks. It came to this, w/ a few exceptions (and I am sure they will chime in ;) )

<10psi = All Good
=10psi = Good.....but may go Bad
>10psi = Will go Bad.....eventually....and depending on driving

My car makes right at 10psi @ 6200RPM. I have only see that high of RPM on the Dyno, so...I feel comfortable. With that being said....I am beginning the cash storing for IF and WHEN things go south :up:

KillJoy
Pretty much true. Another rule of thumb is over 450 rwhp and it's a ticking time bomb. Most of the "standard" MM supercharger kits come in about 380-420 so they're safe.

[Marauderjack]

43K on my ProCharger from FIT and it is stronger today than a year ago!!:bows:

My tune from Dave Lamberson is for 91 octane and I feel it is conservative enough since I think I get 93 octane from Shell every fillup??:beer:

In cool weather it will go to 10.5 PSI at about 6300 RPM's and it really screams....I just grit my teeth and wait for the BOOM!!!:eek: So far so good!!:banana:

Ideally and 8-8.5:1 CR motor would be safer but as long as the tune pulls timing and there is no detonation it should be OK??:confused: I'm saving for the next motor if something goes wrong....just like KillJoy!!;)

Marauderjack:burnout:

[jdando]

With that being said....I am beginning the cash storing for IF and WHEN things go south :up:

KillJoy


My two cents on the situation. We have supercharged our engines. They will see more stress/load/etc than a stock engine. It is not a matter of if our engines will go "bad", but when.

Perhaps it is a more realistic view of the world, but I am storing up some extra cash for when engine my will go bad.


With a good tune, good gas, reasonable HP limits, good transmissions, etc people have run 30,000+ supercharged miles. I hope to be in this group also, but I like track days, I like giant smoky burn outs, this may limit my engine life.

Supercharging an engine is not a cheap playground and you should be ready to pay to play.

All that being said, buying a supercharger was my second best car decision, the first was buying the car.


Back to the original question; My opinion is that our engines handle 8-10 psi quite nicely. A lot of boost is 18-26psi. That would be a recipe for disaster with our pistons, rods and crank.


jeremy

[Marauder386]

As a sortof sidebar to this, RP#1 had almost 60k on it when DR put the A/W system in it...now have just over 67k on it in the year its been in and I havent been a very nice boy to his toy. I have no problems yet and I have been down my "personal 1320" alot over the century mark. I have embarassed alot of Jeeps, Rice, Riced American, et al. No problems...NADA.

:cool:

[RF Overlord]

Raudermaster, how many blown Ford DOHC 4.6L modular motors has your die-hard Chevy guy built? These aren't small-block Chebbies with a 6-71 glommed on...

Technically, though, he's right...if you want a blower motor that's absolutely bullet-proof, you need to build it that way from the crankshaft up. On the other hand, the blower vendors here have done lots of research and, for normal street use, their kits will not appreciably affect the longevity of this motor.

As Rich_Long said^^^: "...it's in the TUNE."

[Cheeseheadbob]

As most of the guys here have said, it is not if your motor goes, but when. I am running 13.5 lbs. of boost max with 460 RWHP and 459 ft. lbs. of torque. My lower end is not forged, I have almost 72K on the car, and I drive it every day that is does not pour down rain. It still runs like the day I, (read Tallboy, Shakes, Carfixer), installed my S/C. I know eventually when I do a pass in the 1/4, something will let go, but in the mean time, I am having a blast. Also, as Rich Long said, when you take a motor to its limits, the tune is extremely important. You have to pay to play.

[juno]

It's not about the psi, it's about the HP and TQ. About 450 is a a safe limit with a good tune. A forged motor with stock compression is good to about 15 psi boost.....but I'll let you know when I get there.:D

[GreekGod]

..." Now, there are some guys at work, one in particular, that has been around engines since he was 10 years old. He's built well over 800 blower motors that are still running to this day and is very knowledgeable when it comes to supercharging"...

"He is a die hard Chevy guy so there are occasional ball busting's towards me since I'm a Ford guy. Now, I told him about s/cing the MM, and he thinks it's a bad idea unless I do pistons and rods. He doesn't think my engine can handle a lot of boost"...

..."So, why can our engines handle it, but he doesn't think so?"...

How old is your fellow worker, 120 years old? I see you work with computers. Is Mr. Super Chevrolet a mechanic where you work? Even if he is 60 years old, that would be over 16 supercharged engines built per year since he was age 10! Even if he built over 800 s/c engines, how in the hell would he know they are "still running to this day" (extremely unlikely!)? I'm calling Mr. supercharged Chevrolet full of super bull-****.

[teamrope]

..." Now, there are some guys at work, one in particular, that has been around engines since he was 10 years old. He's built well over 800 blower motors that are still running to this day and is very knowledgeable when it comes to supercharging"...

"He is a die hard Chevy guy so there are occasional ball busting's towards me since I'm a Ford guy. Now, I told him about s/cing the MM, and he thinks it's a bad idea unless I do pistons and rods. He doesn't think my engine can handle a lot of boost"...

..."So, why can our engines handle it, but he doesn't think so?"...

How old is your fellow worker, 120 years old? I see you work with computers. Is Mr. Super Chevrolet a mechanic where you work? Even if he is 60 years old, that would be over 16 supercharged engines built per year since he was age 10! Even if he built over 800 s/c engines, how in the hell would he know they are "still running to this day" (extremely unlikely!)? I'm calling Mr. supercharged Chevrolet full of super bull-****.

I wasn't going to say anything... but I would have to agree.

[Raudermaster]

..." Now, there are some guys at work, one in particular, that has been around engines since he was 10 years old. He's built well over 800 blower motors that are still running to this day and is very knowledgeable when it comes to supercharging"...

"He is a die hard Chevy guy so there are occasional ball busting's towards me since I'm a Ford guy. Now, I told him about s/cing the MM, and he thinks it's a bad idea unless I do pistons and rods. He doesn't think my engine can handle a lot of boost"...

..."So, why can our engines handle it, but he doesn't think so?"...

How old is your fellow worker, 120 years old? I see you work with computers. Is Mr. Super Chevrolet a mechanic where you work? Even if he is 60 years old, that would be over 16 supercharged engines built per year since he was age 10! Even if he built over 800 s/c engines, how in the hell would he know they are "still running to this day" (extremely unlikely!)? I'm calling Mr. supercharged Chevrolet full of super bull-****.


He's about 60. Before he works where I work, he used to work out of his garage doing anything from simple tune ups, brake jobs, engine rebuilds, and doing blower motors. You're right, he doesn't know if all of them are running, and neither do I, (I'm just going by what he said)but he knows his "finest" work ones are still running. And who am I to tell him he's full of BS. I mean, I'm mechanically able, but I'm not disrespectful and don't say he's full of crap to his face, I just sit down and listen. But you guys are all right, he doesn't know much about our/Modular engines. The only thing he says is that they're junk. :shake:

[Raudermaster]

Raudermaster, how many blown Ford DOHC 4.6L modular motors has your die-hard Chevy guy built? These aren't small-block Chebbies with a 6-71 glommed on...

Technically, though, he's right...if you want a blower motor that's absolutely bullet-proof, you need to build it that way from the crankshaft up. On the other hand, the blower vendors here have done lots of research and, for normal street use, their kits will not appreciably affect the longevity of this motor.

As Rich_Long said^^^: "...it's in the TUNE."

He hasn't done ONE modular Ford blower motor. Funny you should mention a 6-71....He doesn't "care" for any other blower except that. He calls the L blowers, Cobra and the Trilogy's "baby" blowers. Essentially he's right, compared to a 6-71, but who the hell cares? It still kicks ass!

[RCSignals]

...................... But you guys are all right, he doesn't know much about our/Modular engines. The only thing he says is that they're junk. :shake:

Another open minded chevy 'expert' then.


I have to agree with the assessment of Greekgod.

[MarauderMark]

If ya want to build a ford motor then you do not go to a chevy dealer.If the person talking to you doesn't kike mod motors then his knowledge is very limited and i for 1 wouldn't want him working on my motor.:rolleyes: If you want info on our motors then asking those who built , raced and modified here would be a good start.:D
Good luck with whatever you choose:up:

[Bluerauder]

As most of the guys here have said, it is not if your motor goes, but when. I am running 13.5 lbs. of boost max with 460 RWHP and 459 ft. lbs. of torque.
I think that "Sherm" is running 14.0 to 14.5 psi. But he's gone with forged internals and bottom if I am not mistaken. He runs mid-11s with his DTR when the conditions are right. Think he was turning 12-flats at SSHS6.

[FordNut]

I think that "Sherm" is running 14.0 to 14.5 psi. But he's gone with forged internals and bottom if I am not mistaken. He runs mid-11s with his DTR when the conditions are right. Think he was turning 12-flats at SSHS6.

Not sure about the boost levels, but what he put in is a Cobra bottom end, OEM spec factory rebuild type with cast iron block and 8.5:1 CR.

[merc]

Not sure about the boost levels, but what he put in is a Cobra bottom end, OEM spec factory rebuild type with cast iron block and 8.5:1 CR.

He has a 2.8 pulley and he ran his best times at SSH6. I thought it was a 11.7 something. He has his eyes on a few new upgrades. 2007 should be the year of the Marauder. My MMR 4.6 Street Mod short block should be here in the next couple of months.

[sailsmen]

He was running stock gears at SSH6.

[GreekGod]

"He's about 60. Before he works where I work, he used to work out of his garage doing anything from simple tune ups, brake jobs, engine rebuilds, and doing blower motors. You're right, he doesn't know if all of them are running, and neither do I, (I'm just going by what he said)but he knows his "finest" work ones are still running. And who am I to tell him he's full of BS. I mean, I'm mechanically able, but I'm not disrespectful and don't say he's full of crap to his face, I just sit down and listen. But you guys are all right, he doesn't know much about our/Modular engines. The only thing he says is that they're junk. :shake:"

Ok, you've got his "number". You are wise to let him talk. He will dig a very deep hole, that he can't get out of. Keep the bite on your tongue and you will be amused with his "wisdom".

The Mod motors are far from junk. Ford has built way more than one million V8 engines, as has GM. They are (nearly) all throw away designs, when compared to heavy duty Diesel truck engines, which have replaceable cylinder liners, and can be rebuilt in chassis.

I believe all of the GMC 6-71 and 8-71 type superchargers lack concealability, because they require a hood scoop, or else they need a hole in the hood for clearance (except possibly some pick-up trucks).

The Eaton type sits low enough to clear a factory hood. Score one for the sleeper factor. All engineering involves compromise, and the Eaton is an outstanding example of balance in that respect.

[MM_BKK]

And who am I to tell him he's full of BS. I mean, I'm mechanically able, but I'm not disrespectful and don't say he's full of crap to his face, I just sit down and listen. But you guys are all right, he doesn't know much about our/Modular engines. The only thing he says is that they're junk. :shake:

Perhaps you should really listen to Mr. Chevy and give him full respect, after all he's built over 800 s/c engines and they're all "still running".:bs: Perhaps then you should sell your Marauder and may be get one of those new Chevy Impala? He did say the Ford Modular Motors are junk!
I believe he's offended a lot of us here with the Modular Motors. I think you should stand up for us and tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the Ford Modular Motors and he shouldn't say something is junk when he has no idea about it.
Just my $0.02

[Joe Walsh]

Yeah..these Mod motors are junk....why else would FORD have to put in double the valves and FOUR times as many cams as a 350 Chevy???..;)

[GreekGod]

"I believe he's offended a lot of us here with the Modular Motors. I think you should stand up for us and tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the Ford Modular Motors and he shouldn't say something is junk when he has no idea about it.
Just my $0.02"

Just consider the source! I live in the center of the GM universe. The Chevrolet loving idiots are legion around here, just because there are so many of them. Some of my best friends are Chevrolet lovers. I love to hear (some of) them and their rediculous claims. You can't let the ignorent offend you.

[HotrodMerc]

Perhaps you should really listen to Mr. Chevy and give him full respect, after all he's built over 800 s/c engines and they're all "still running".:bs: Perhaps then you should sell your Marauder and may be get one of those new Chevy Impala? He did say the Ford Modular Motors are junk!
I believe he's offended a lot of us here with the Modular Motors. I think you should stand up for us and tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the Ford Modular Motors and he shouldn't say something is junk when he has no idea about it.
Just my $0.02

Raudermaster, probably nothing will open and penetrate a mind such as Mr. Chevy the blower motor expert, but what might come closest is a ride in your ride after you follow the above advice to, when you are financially able, purchase a blower and reasonably "safe" tune, or a multi-tune device, from one the vendors on this site, then try to get your sage friend to go for a ride in your Ford product. It may be that the aesthetics of your Mercury Marauder with say 425 rwhp under the STOCK hood and paint job, an interior which to me is nicer than the Impala SS, would mean nothing to your buddy. But it may, though he probably would not let you know even if he was impressed with the beauty, refinement and comfort of your MM compared to his Camaro's, Chevelles and Nova's with the big truck blowers sticking out of the hood. But those are all factors you need to decide for yourself on the importance of to you. If you want an all-out hot rod, with 15-25 psi of boost, then your stock shortblock is not the long-term candidate. But if you want to have a nice car, that the MM is, with significantly more punch that will entertain you and plenty of those that would challenge you on the street, then your MM with 8-9 psi could last you as long as my wife's '99 Bonneville, which has over 101,000 mi. on the drive train with it's 8 psi Eaton charger. And the B'ville probably does not have forged pistons and rods or a forged/billet crank. Plus your MM with 8 psi would run circles around the V6 front driver Bonneville and similar rigs. Just do your research with the vendors on this board and you can have a lot of satisfaction no matter which is your choice. Have fun and drive defensively. :)

[RCSignals]

Just remember, you can make daily use of your MM with a Trilogy or other S/C.
Can that be said of all 800 of his Princesses?

[Vortech347]

Excessive rear tire wear....

More likely to get in races getting you tickets....

Cost of upgrading drivetrain to handle excessive power and/or replacing parts due to the additional wear/tear.