Headers

[magindat]

Friends,
One of the last steps for me and my 'ALL MOTOR' Marauder is headers. I've got a custom exhaust from the 1st cats back and I love it. This discussion is purely about HEADERS.
I'd like to find shorty headers. I know, I know, everybody loves kooks. Great. Cool. I have no problem with kooks except they don't offer what I think I want which is shorties.
I have been advised about the FRPP headers, but they aren't really headers. At least not from the pictures.
I know Stainless Works has long tubes, but again, I'm looking for low end torgue and umph, not high end HP.
I know DR has Cobra manifolds. How much are they worth in HP by themselves?
At the 1/4, though I do pretty well at the launch and seem to get 'run down' at the top of the track. Maybe I do need long tubes?
Help me out guys. No flaming or wars, just real world SOTP feelings and numbers if ya got em.
I'd like opinions and REAL EXPERIENCES with some of the options out there.
Back to REAL MARAUDER discussions!!!!!
Thanx in advance.
Rich

[Zack]

Kooks doesnt sacrifice any power down low IMHO,
The Ford Shorty's did, big time.
Go with the long tubes, either company. Id buy the one who's cheaper.

[mpearce]

Here's a look at my Stainless Works if you haven't seen any pictures yet. The headers start on page 3 of my gallery. If you want to hear about shorties, talk to Javier. I believe he has them. Good luck with your decision.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/browseimages.php?do=browseimag es&c=3&userid=2114&page=3

-Mat

[magindat]

Kooks doesnt sacrifice any power down low IMHO,
The Ford Shorty's did, big time.
Go with the long tubes, either company. Id buy the one who's cheaper.

Thanx. Was this experience under SC or NA?

[DEFYANT]

I am happy with the Kooks headers. I am not happy with the customer service from Kooks. I posted in their (now gone) forum and called several times with no return call or follow up in the forum.

These were installed after the Trilogy, FYI.

If I had to do it over, I'd look closer at the Stainless' kit. I have done the FRPP shortys on my ole 98 Cobra. It was a MFer and not worth the trouble in the end.

[FordNut]

Long tubes are actually better than shorties for low end torque. What gives long tubes a bad rep is that so many people think bigger is better and go for primaries and collectors that are too big. That DOES kill low end torque. When I got my Kooks they were the only game in town. If I had it to do over again I would give StainlessWorks a serious look.

[magindat]

Mat,
Thanx. Those SW's sure are pretty. Did you install or help install? If so, hows the EGR tube situation. I have heard of some kits needing EGR tube adjustment/relocation?

Charlie,
Thanx for the heads up w/kooks.

So far, looks like 2-1/2 votes for SW.... Guess I'll need to save a few more $$$.

[magindat]

That's 3-1/2 votes for SW.

I'll take a comparative look at primary size and educate myself. Thanx!

[ckadiddle]

Hah! I know why you are looking at headers!!
http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/?action=view&current=5th.flv?t=1167936400
I almost kept up with you when I wasn't asleep at the lights.
:lol:

I don't know much about headers, but I vote for the Stainless Works long tubes cause they are really purty.

[magindat]

I almost kept up with you....


I gotta be ahead or behind so the crowd can take in the beauty of the ride!!!! Can't be havin no plain monochrome blue cars blocking the view!!!

:stupid:

Thanx for the vote. I'll count 'purty' as another 1/2!!!!

[Joe Walsh]

Long tubes are actually better than shorties for low end torque. What gives long tubes a bad rep is that so many people think bigger is better and go for primaries and collectors that are too big. That DOES kill low end torque. When I got my Kooks they were the only game in town. If I had it to do over again I would give StainlessWorks a serious look.

Yep, The longer the header tubes...the better it is for low end torque...same as on the intake side: long intake runners promote low end torque.

I put Kooks on my N/A OEM engine along with a custom 2-1/2" Hi-flow Cats/X-pipe/Magnaflow muffler set up.
I don't think that I lost any low end torque...
I could not light the tires from a dead punch before the install, AFTER the install it would annialate the tires from a dead punch!
I got @ .4 second reduction in ETs as well.

[mpearce]

Mat,
Thanx. Those SW's sure are pretty. Did you install or help install? If so, hows the EGR tube situation. I have heard of some kits needing EGR tube adjustment/relocation?

Rich,

I'm really sorry I don't have more technical info for you regarding the Stainless Works. My MM has taken a big back seat to my life currently. My MM was driven less than 200 miles in 2006!! I bought those in June, and still have yet to get them in. Hence, no answer on the EGR tube situation.

Tom, MarauderTJA, has them and could probably help you with more techincal questions.

I got the "headers only" option, with the ceramic coating. The rest of my exhaust will be a custom job.

Here is my original thread on them. It has more info, and phone numbers if you need them.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Enjoy.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28335&highlight=Stainless+Works+Long +Tube+Headers

-Mat

[Glenn]

I would have prefered the Kooks, but could not afford the expense nearly two years ago and I did not want the complete package with the magaflow mufflers. My alternative was the FR ceramic Cobra shorty headers. They were easy to install and worked very well with the hi-flow Cobra X-pipe and CATS (2) coupled to the stock mufflers (thank you Team Toyland and Grand Muffler). My signature below explains the rest. The true test is on the track.

Glenn

[MarauderTJA]

That's 3-1/2 votes for SW.

I'll take a comparative look at primary size and educate myself. Thanx!

I have Stainless Works long tubes Rich. I love them and would recommend them without question.

[Paul T. Casey]

Friends,
me and my 'ALL MOTOR' Marauder
Back to REAL MARAUDER discussions!!!!!
Thanx in advance.
Rich

So all motor eh? I got some extra scratch in my wallet that says my [I]stock geared[I] all motor Marauder will get it done a little quicker. Just a friendly sort of thing, keep it under three figures, pick a spot, a time, etc., and we'll see what happens. I'll go double if you keep the shortie idea.

Paul

[merc]

I would have prefered the Kooks, but could not afford the expense nearly two years ago and I did not want the complete package with the magaflow mufflers. My alternative was the FR ceramic Cobra shorty headers. They were easy to install and worked very well with the hi-flow Cobra X-pipe and CATS (2) coupled to the stock mufflers (thank you Team Toyland and Grand Muffler). My signature below explains the rest. The true test is on the track.

Glenn

I have a very simular exhaust package as Glenn. I have been told a thousand times that FR Cobra shortys are a waste of time, but in N/A trim I was second behind Cruztaker and 17th overall on the S/C timeslip database with a 3.4 pulley. If there is a differance then it's not much in the 450 HP and under category.

[magindat]

So all motor eh? I got some extra scratch in my wallet that says my [i]stock geared[i] all motor Marauder will get it done a little quicker. Just a friendly sort of thing, keep it under three figures, pick a spot, a time, etc., and we'll see what happens. I'll go double if you keep the shortie idea.

Paul

I'll race anyone anytime, but only for fun! For me, the track is simply a place to have a lot of fun and 1/4 times are for comparison and education. Geez, I know there's no way to beat most folks with similar mods, simply cuz I'm turnin 20's on the rear. So, it's not about the challenge, but more about the information.
Right now, I can't afford an SC from a $ standpoint nor from a reliabiltiy standpoint. I know, they are reliable, but I dare not until I get another car. Just my personal feeling, there.
I'll accept your challenge! Only in person and for a nice cold brew and a warm handshake trackside.

In the mean time. Keep the header info coming, although it sounds like I may be doin a bit more savin for the SW's and the subsequent install and mating to existing exhaust work.

Thanx ya'll!

[bryanthomas]

nor from a reliabiltiy standpoint. I know, they are reliable, but I dare not until I get another car. Just my personal feeling, there.



I agree! Better safe than sorry! :beer:

[ctrlraven]

Do you plan on going SC down the road? If you do get the SW long tubes. I asked this type of question several months ago and everyone told me if I had any thought of going SC to get the long tubes now and not have to worry about it later on.

[Marauderman]

Dang Rich! If I had known I would have you drive my MM while down there at MVIV-----I have Shorty Headers --got them before the S/C'er--made a bunch of difference I think!

Say--I am coming back down to Punta Gorda, Fla in a few weeks---where will you be--maybe take my MM for a drive if nearby on the way down....Tom

[MarauderTJA]

Rich I'll have my car at the picnic with the Stainless Works headers for you to see and hear on the car. I don't know if you should go for a ride though, don't want to get accused of twisting your arm to get a FIT Procharger kit:lol: .

[Marauderman]

Rich I'll have my car at the picnic with the Stainless Works headers for you to see and hear on the car. I don't know if you should go for a ride though, don't want to get accused of twisting your arm to get a FIT Procharger kit:lol: .

.......uh..............Tom.... ..whatcha saying my friend......me...persuading Rich by driving my MM would have him think S/C'er---------NOT!..Hell, he knows any S/C'd MM is fast----he'd be doing it for the sound of the engine and feel of it all--.................he can make his choice on headers as well as anything else.............now mine does sound a bit diff as well--don't know if that will matter...............:lol:

[Tyrone Minto]

Rich I'll have my car at the picnic with the Stainless Works headers for you to see and hear on the car. I don't know if you should go for a ride though, don't want to get accused of twisting your arm to get a FIT Procharger kit:lol: .

Picnic???????????
I will be in FLA on MON for about a week. (Bradenton)
Had to drive the folks down in their Van. Am missing the MM already.

[MarauderTJA]

.......uh..............Tom.... ..whatcha saying my friend......me...persuading Rich by driving my MM would have him think S/C'er---------NOT!..Hell, he knows any S/C'd MM is fast----he'd be doing it for the sound of the engine and feel of it all--.................he can make his choice on headers as well as anything else.............now mine does sound a bit diff as well--don't know if that will matter...............:lol:

Your right Tom, we will just have to :whistle: him into submission:D .

[MarauderTJA]

Picnic???????????
I will be in FLA on MON for about a week. (Bradenton)
Had to drive the folks down in their Van. Am missing the MM already.

Tyrone, the SSM annual picnic is not until Feb 18th. Your welcome to attend if you are back here then.

[magindat]

Rich I'll have my car at the picnic with the Stainless Works headers for you to see and hear on the car. I don't know if you should go for a ride though, don't want to get accused of twisting your arm to get a FIT Procharger kit:lol: .

Why?! You're already accused!!!!!

Besides, I'm doing all the stuff that many SC folks have gone back and done. Sometimes due to failure, sometimes to make improvement. As my only driver, this beyotch needs to be bullet proof before an SC is even a consideration. In the mean time, it's a whole lotta fun!!!!!

[MarauderTJA]

Wh y?! You're already accused!!!!!

this beyotch needs to be bullet proof before an SC is even a consideration. In the mean time, it's a whole lotta fun!!!!!

Paleeeeeze Rich. You already have the car set up, just itching for an S/C. You really have to stop :hide: . You want, you need it. That's it buddy. Your gonna drive my car:run: :tantrum:. Then you will have serious reason for accusation.

[magindat]

Paleeeeeze Rich. You already have the car set up, just itching for an S/C. You really have to stop :hide: . You want, you need it. That's it buddy. Your gonna drive my car:run: :tantrum:. Then you will have serious reason for accusation.

Bwaaaahaaaahaaaaa!!!!!!! :laugh:

Yeah, I'm itchin a little, but no rash decisions. I am watchin Greg's roots development closely, though. If I can keep things on an even keel financially, perhaps by the end of this year, maybe. I have a few more things up my sleeve I wanna do first. Things even you, oh Great Arm Twister, would be proud of!

[magindat]

I'm assuming my tune doesn't use the rear O2's.

So here's the question...
If I run NO CATS, then I still need the front 02's, right?

I know, I know illegal, blah blah. Just answer the question, K?

Any body ever tried this?

[FordNut]

I'm assuming my tune doesn't use the rear O2's.

So here's the question...
If I run NO CATS, then I still need the front 02's, right?

I know, I know illegal, blah blah. Just answer the question, K?

Any body ever tried this?

Front O2 sensors are used by the PCM to read AFR, so yes they are still required.

[magindat]

Front O2 sensors are used by the PCM to read AFR, so yes they are still required.

OK, I figured that much, but I don't remember if they were B4 or after the 1st cats. In other words, does it matter for the PCM's AFR reading if the cats are there or not?

Thanx

[juno]

I'm assuming my tune doesn't use the rear O2's.

So here's the question...
If I run NO CATS, then I still need the front 02's, right?

I know, I know illegal, blah blah. Just answer the question, K?

Any body ever tried this?
Rear O2 sensors? Cats? EGR? Never heard of them. :D

[magindat]

Rear O2 sensors? Cats? EGR? Never heard of them. :D

Oh yeah. What do you do with the EGR tube?

[ctrlraven]

Regarding the rear O2 sensors, I know I'll be coming up on MD emissions soon should I reload the stock tune (a good amount of time before I go) so the emissions computer will read the rear sensors or will having a tune loaded up with the rears sensors off cause me to fail?

[juno]

Oh yeah. What do you do with the EGR tube?

http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=149&parent=8

$30 dollars, we use the same flange and tube on our cars.

[juno]

Oh yeah. What do you do with the EGR tube?


Oh the tube!!!! It is in a box full of OEM parts I have collected, flywheel, torque converter, throttle body, MAF, injectors, water pump, block, etc.

[FordNut]

OK, I figured that much, but I don't remember if they were B4 or after the 1st cats. In other words, does it matter for the PCM's AFR reading if the cats are there or not?

Thanx

No, it doesn't matter if cats are there or not.

[magindat]

Oh the tube!!!! It is in a box full of OEM parts I have collected, flywheel, torque converter, throttle body, MAF, injectors, water pump, block, etc.

Funny, Jay!

So, just plate over the hole on the upper manifold and forget the egr altogether? Sounds too easy!

[juno]

Funny, Jay!

So, just plate over the hole on the upper manifold and forget the egr altogether? Sounds too easy!

Plate over the hole and cap the tube on the drivers side exhaust/header. Then turn off with the programmer.

No real good reason to get rid of it, it does not hurt anything, but it was a PITA to get back in after the PHP spacer and rear cooling kit and it looked like crap.

[magindat]

Plate over the hole and cap the tube on the drivers side exhaust/header. Then turn off with the programmer.

No real good reason to get rid of it, it does not hurt anything, but it was a PITA to get back in after the PHP spacer and rear cooling kit and it looked like crap.

Only reason is if SW headers don't have the port for it.

My EGR made it thru the spacer and the rear cooling kit, but it was a PITA on both installs.

[Joe Walsh]

Regarding the rear O2 sensors, I know I'll be coming up on MD emissions soon should I reload the stock tune (a good amount of time before I go) so the emissions computer will read the rear sensors or will having a tune loaded up with the rears sensors off cause me to fail?

Chris, I've got a set of "MIL" eliminators wired into my rear O2 sensors and I passed the MD. Emissions check with no problem.
They just plug into your computer port under the dash and as long as you haven't 'thrown any trouble codes', or you clear them from the computer's memory you should be OK.

You do have catalytic convertors??