Affordable supercharger kit

[Dennis Reinhart]

Affordable supercharger, we all have talked about it, and it’s a great idea, a lot of you would like to have one, but its tough to shell out 4500.00 or more, the cost on any kit is a factor for any company when pricing a kit right, you have the price of a base kit, the only way to lesson that cost is to buy multiple kits, or buy a kit with out a after cooler or for example you can save money in going with a satin Supercharger instead of polished,. I have always sold my kit in polished, then you have to add the cost of shipping and a set of 39lb injectors the Mass air flow sensor a better fuel pump, the associated piping and hardware, and you have to consider R&D as well. The after cooler on my air to air kit alone is close to 900.00.

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/vorairairkit.jpg

So here is what I have put together, I can make a non after cooled kit, based off my air to air kit, with a satin E Trim with Injectors and the Maf a GT fuel pump and an Xcal 2 for 3895.00. The E Trim is what was offered for the 01 Cobra and is a good blower with a 3.61 pulley the car will make about 6 PSI, this is plenty safe as a non inner cooled kit, you also will have the option of having the blower polished or up grading to the S trim, the S Trim right now can put the car safely put the car in the mid 400 RWHP with a after cooler. If you went with the S Trim the car would just be tuned to make less power because you do not have an after cooler.
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<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>The kit will include every thing it will use the same air box as my air to air kit I will have a special discharge pipe made to and have every thing powder coated. Below is a picture of this setup. This kit could be installed in a afternoon very easily.

<o:p></o:p>
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1164476478-DSC00143.jpg

<o:p></o:p>
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>The pipe shown in the picture now going to the throttle body would go directly to the Supercharger its discharge would be clocked at the 3:00 position, so there it is all laid out for you. So if you have a interest let me know or give me a call if you have any questions. We will also install the first kit sold for free.

[HwyCruiser]

Since this is posted in the Garage forum I assume the non-intercooled s/c subject is open for discussion. Actually, this has already had a lot of dicussion when Greg proposed it last year.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=26859

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=27171

He took a pretty good beating from the usual suspects back then, but hopefully the community is more tolerant of now to such possibilities. I for one would like to see the results of a low-boost centrifugal application. Good luck in getting the issues raised worked out.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Well I posted it here because I thought the members would like to see it, I am in full agreement that a after cooler should be used especially in a high RWHP application, but this set up will allow members to get a low boost kit that can be upgraded later on, so its really up to the persons that are looking at the kit, to taylor the cost to there budget.

[Raudermaster]

OMG. Dennis, is this a "limited time" only thing? Or is this a forever product that you will offer?

[Dennis Reinhart]

OMG. Dennis, is this a "limited time" only thing? Or is this a forever product that you will offer?\

No its a kit will offer the club and I will post it on my web site

[Raudermaster]

Great. Come March, I should have enough for this. I guess I"ll put off on the headers then, and just get this instead!

[Dennis Reinhart]

Sounds good call me any time if you have any questions.

[Power Surge]

Hey Dennis, a suggestion if I may....

It might be a good idea to also offer a "mid priced" kit, using the same non-I/C parts in this new kit, but with the S-trim head unit from your high end kit. This way, someone who might not have the $$ for the full boogie kit could get a blower on their car sooner, and then purchase the intercooler parts from you down the road to complete the full high power kit.

Just a thought...

[Dennis Reinhart]

Hey Dennis, a suggestion if I may....

It might be a good idea to also offer a "mid priced" kit, using the same non-I/C parts in this new kit, but with the S-trim head unit from your high end kit. This way, someone who might not have the $$ for the full boogie kit could get a blower on their car sooner, and then purchase the intercooler parts from you down the road to complete the full high power kit.

Just a thought...


Thanks Sal, and yes this is what I am doing here, the kit will come with a Satin E Trim with a option to up grade to a satin S Tim or a pollished S or E Trim as well.

[Power Surge]

Thanks Sal, and yes this is what I am doing here, the kit will come with a Satin E Trim with a option to up grade to a satin S Tim or a pollished S or E Trim as well.

Nice :up: .

[tmac1337]

This kit without a cooler, low boost, is definately an option if done right.

I first became interested in air to air after going to the local car show and seeing all the mustangs lined up with centrifical blowers, with very few of the cars having coolers.

Members shouldn't discount the idea of this kit. I remember getting slammed by the usual suspects a couple of years ago even talking about air to air when the roots kit was pushed aggressively. A couple of years later we all know that the air to air kits are performing very well and the crap talk about them was just that.....crap talk.

I like the idea of a kit like this. Let's give it a chance and see how it works. Cooler could be added later anyway.

[tmac1337]

Dennis, the more I look at the quality of the pipes you offer.....the more I like em!:P

[94_302]

Since I have never heard of an e-trim I tried to do a quick search on svtperformance and corral. The consensus was that it does not build boost till later on in the rpms. One person specifically said it won't start to build boost until around 4k rpms and keeps going to 7k rpms. Is that a little too high for a stock motor? I'm just asking because I do realize a post online is not a fact written in stone and I have never heard of an e-trim so I'm looking to find out more about it.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Since I have never heard of an e-trim I tried to do a quick search on svtperformance and corral. The consensus was that it does not build boost till later on in the rpms. One person specifically said it won't start to build boost until around 4k rpms and keeps going to 7k rpms. Is that a little too high for a stock motor? I'm just asking because I do realize a post online is not a fact written in stone and I have never heard of an e-trim so I'm looking to find out more about it.

Again its what the customer wants to pay for, the E Trim is a good blower but it's not to be compared to the S Trim, thats why I am offering the S Trim as a upgrade, but with the stock E Trim and a 3.6 pulley, the car will make about 6 PSI, you could go to a smaller pulley, and this would allow boost to come on quicker, but you have to consider heat with no after cooler, you could use a snow system but there 350.00, but to say that the E Trim will not make boost till 4 K is a bit far, I have drove a CV with a E Trim and its pretty Pepe, plus the Corral is Mustangs we don't know if the cars had manual transmissions, or not. And with the E Trim the car should make about 350 RWHP.

<TABLE borderColor=#999999 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width="10%" height=30>
V-1/V-2 S-Trim
</TD><TD width="4%" height=30>
STD/HD
</TD><TD width="10%" height=30>
Clockwise or Counterclockwise
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
Satin or Polished
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
3.50”
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
3.10”
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
2.75”
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
2.38”
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
45,000
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
50,000
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
20
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
1,000
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
680
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
72%
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="10%" height=30>
V-1/V-2 SC-Trim
</TD><TD width="4%" height=30>
STD/HD
</TD><TD width="10%" height=30>
Clockwise or Counterclockwise
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
Satin or Polished
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
3.50”
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
3.10”
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
2.75”
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
2.38”
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
50,000
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
53,000
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
20
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
1,000
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
680
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
75%
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="10%" height=30>
V-1 T-Trim
</TD><TD width="4%" height=30>
HD
</TD><TD width="10%" height=30>
Clockwise or Counterclockwise
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
Satin or Polished
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
3.75”
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
3.29”
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
2.75”
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
2.38”
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
52,000
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
55,000
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
26
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
1,200
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
825
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
73%
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="10%" height=30>
V-2 SQ E-Trim
</TD><TD width="4%" height=30>
STD
</TD><TD width="10%" height=30>
Clockwise or Counterclockwise
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
Satin or Polished
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
3.63”
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
3.33”
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
2.75”
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
2.38”
</TD><TD width="6%" height=30>
62,000
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
65,000
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
26
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
1,200
</TD><TD width="8%" height=30>
750
</TD><TD width="7%" height=30>
76%
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[MarauderTJA]

What Tim said as well. Dennis, it will be interesting to say the least and welcome to those wanting to get S/C'd with having the option to upgrade down the road when the funds become avaiable.

[RCSignals]

Dennis is right. To offer a lower price something has to be sacrificed. Either content, or quality.
In this case an option is offered for less content without sacrificing quality, and can be built on later, In the end after adding on, the final total cost will work out to be the same as a full kit or so. A buyer is enabled to get in earlier at a lower price.

too often people just shop by price alone, and not comparatively. little in life is 'free'

[MarauderTJA]

Dennis is right. To offer a lower price something has to be sacrificed. Either content, or quality.
In this case an option is offered for less content without sacrificing quality, and can be built on later, In the end after adding on, the final total cost will work out to be the same as a full kit or so. A buyer is enabled to get in earlier at a lower price.

too often people just shop by price alone, and not comparatively. little in life is 'free'

Your right. And lets face it, looking pretty has nothing to do with the power either.

[Pat]

Great Offering Dennis,

The S/C's $4500+ costs were more than I could handle but with the reduced cost of $3895 and a tune I'm back in the hunt. Looking at a late summer or early fall time frame. My #2 son can swing the install.

Thanks for remembering us wanna-be's.

Pat

[KillJoy]

This sounds like a nice offering Dennis. Especially if it is possibe to upgrade later on down the road.

<$4K for a blower is one HELLOVA DEAL!!! 350RWHP is one nice kick in the pants to boot.

How quiet is the E-Trim compared to an S? I know that T-Trim sounds like a dying Water Pump :D

KillJoy

PS -


Dennis, the more I look at the quality of the pipes you offer.....the more I like em!:P

The plumbing I got w/ my kit looks NIIIIIICCCEEEEE! :up:

[Vortech347]

This is awesome. Just what I'm looking for...I can just add a Meth kit like on my stang. :) The E-trim is a great blower!!

Damn you for doing this. Now I need to start the blower fund sooner than expected...

[Glenn]

Dennis:

Very nice well engineered and looking package. Great job.

Glenn

[Dennis Reinhart]

Thanks Glenn I really appreciate the compliment, I am looking forward to doing the first install and getting some good numbers.

[94_302]

Yeah what I found when I looked was regarding 99 and 01 cobras. I looked on the vortech site and did not see an e-trim offered for a Mach so everything I read was only about 5spd cobras. I look forward to hearing the numbers produced by the e-trim.

[Raudermaster]

Ha! I completely forgot about taxes! w00t. Just from that, I should have HALF the money for that. Maybe it will be sooner than March.

[Raudermaster]

Forgot to ask, how much is the upgrade to the S-Trim? Are you allowing JUST the S-Trim, or the S-Trim with the aftercooler as like a "package?"

[AzMarauder]

Well I posted it here because I thought the members would like to see it, I am in full agreement that a after cooler should be used especially in a high RWHP application, but this set up will allow members to get a low boost kit that can be upgraded later on, so its really up to the persons that are looking at the kit, to taylor the cost to there budget.

I'm confused Dennis, You are saying the kit is non-intercooled ..in the picture what is the function of the large "heat exchanger" or.. I thought air to air intercooler?

Did I miss something?

Have you done any kits for a 1990 Lincoln LSC?

[DEFYANT]

I'm confused Dennis, You are saying the kit is non-intercooled ..in the picture what is the function of the large "heat exchanger" or.. I thought air to air intercooler?

Did I miss something?

Have you done any kits for a 1990 Lincoln LSC?


LOL, I thought the same thing. Figured I'd get the boot if I said anything.

This sounds like a fantastic low budget kit though. Are there other cars that run a S/C without a air cooler?

[Dennis Reinhart]

I'm confused Dennis, You are saying the kit is non-intercooled ..in the picture what is the function of the large "heat exchanger" or.. I thought air to air intercooler?

Did I miss something?

Have you done any kits for a 1990 Lincoln LSC?


I am sorry you are confused this what the post says, I stated a big cost in any kit is the after cooler, in my air to air kit it alone is close to 900.00
So I have decided to offer a low boost kit with no after cooler.


Affordable supercharger, we all have talked about it, and it’s a great idea, a lot of you would like to have one, but its tough to shell out 4500.00 or more, the cost on any kit is a factor for any company when pricing a kit right, you have the price of a base kit, the only way to lesson that cost is to buy multiple kits, or buy a kit with out a after cooler or for example you can save money in going with a satin Supercharger instead of polished,. I have always sold my kit in polished, then you have to add the cost of shipping and a set of 39lb injectors the Mass air flow sensor a better fuel pump, the associated piping and hardware, and you have to consider R&D as well. The after cooler on my air to air kit alone is close to 900.00.



I just showed the picture of the air to air kit so the members can see what goes in it and they can see the quality of this inner cooler.

So here is what I have put together, I can make a non after cooled kit, based off my air to air kit, with a satin E Trim with Injectors and the Maf a GT fuel pump and an Xcal 2 for 3895.00. The E Trim is what was offered for the 01 Cobra and is a good blower with a 3.61 pulley the car will make about 6 PSI, this is plenty safe as a non inner cooled kit, you also will have the option of having the blower polished or up grading to the S trim, the S Trim right now can put the car safely put the car in the mid 400 RWHP with a after cooler. If you went with the S Trim the car would just be tuned to make less power because you do not have an after cooler.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/ /><o:p></o:p>
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<FONT face=<font size=" /><o:p></o:p>
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>The kit will include every thing it will use the same air box as my air to air kit I will have a special discharge pipe made to and have every thing powder coated. Below is a picture of this setup. This kit could be installed in a afternoon very easily.
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>
<FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3>And I have done many Mark 8's and Crown Victoria's I could help with your Lincoln call me any time.

[magindat]

<font]
The pipe shown in the picture now going to the throttle body would go directly to the Supercharger its discharge would be clocked at the 3:00 position, so there it is all laid out for you. So if you have a interest let me know or give me a call if you have any questions. We will also install the first kit sold for free.

The picture is of Dennis' own car. It's not like he's got supercharged Marauders lying around to photograph! Ha Ha!

The way I understand it from this paragraph is that the pipe to the throttle body would come from the TB, dip and turn in front of the radiator and attach the the SC head unit output which would face the driver's side (non-IC) rather than down (IC). Otherwise, all would look the same minus the after cooler.

Dennis, I have one question. If the aftercooler is $900, I wonder why the kit is $3895 rather than $3600 ($4500-$900). I can see there would be less piping, too. I'm not trying to start anything, of course. I do, however, think I would hold out the $700 difference to get the after-cooler for my own peace of mind even if I were only running 6-8 PSI. But hey, that's just me.

Good luck with this kit. I do definately feel 6 PSI is safe non-IC with the right tune. I have turbo'ed and SC'd several ricers to 5-6 PSI and not even had to chnage the stock tune! Sure, they have less compression, but if the stock tune on a ricer charts far enough for 6 PSI, it's gotta be safe for us with a CUSTOM tune!

[ckadiddle]

Dennis, you are truly an Evil Man. :)

[Dennis Reinhart]

Rich I can only cut so many corners to reduce cost, what is not even taken into consideration on the non inner cooled kit is, the cost of the new cooling reservoir or the cobra fan assembly. All this adds up, I am going to have a pipe made, in 3" mandril steel I am still trying to get, the company in Atlanta to do the pipes in alluminum, I have had to send back the last three sets of the air to air pipes back because they were not made to my specs or standards,:( but when I get past this all we be good.

[magindat]

Rich I can only cut so many corners to reduce cost, what is not even taken into consideration on the non inner cooled kit is, the cost of the new cooling reservoir or the cobra fan assembly. All this adds up, I am going to have a pipe made, in 3" mandril steel I am still trying to get, the company in Atlanta to do the pipes in alluminum, I have had to send back the last three sets of the air to air pipes back because they were not made to my specs or standards,:( but when I get past this all we be good.

Gotcha. Just wondering, you knew someone would!

Maybe it would be worth while to invest in a bender and a powder-coating oven!!!!

See ya at the picnic!

[LordVader]

Well it looks like some us will start modding sooner than anticipated. Really curious with the rest to see what kind of numbers this will produce. Thanks Dennis for the R&D.

[Dragcity]

The Evil Hand Of Temptation.....

I think I once learned something in my religion class that relates to just such a thing...


You are all going to He!! for this.

And it seems the extra air form this kit will fan the flames.

Pay no attention to me, I am just jealous.

Looks like you are putting a lot of thought into all this. You are to be commended.

[O's Fan Rich]

The Evil Hand Of Temptation.....

I think I once learned something in my religion class that relates to just such a thing...


You are all going to He!! for this.

And it seems the extra air form this kit will fan the flames.

Pay no attention to me, I am just jealous.

Looks like you are putting a lot of thought into all this. You are to be commended.

We are drawn out and enticed by our OWN desires!
James 1:14.....

Dennis is not the Devil..... we are our own !!

This is a great idea DR.
It seems that the speed needs of the many are going to be met!
excellent!http://www.doheth.co.uk/profiles/burns.gif

[MarauderTJA]

We are drawn out and enticed by our OWN desires!
James 1:14.....

Dennis is not the Devil..... we are our own !!

This is a great idea DR.
It seems that the speed needs of the many are going to be met!
excellent!http://www.doheth.co.uk/profiles/burns.gif


You guys will just get to hell faster, no biggie:D

[Blackened300a]

I wanna see the real world results from someone who has the kit installed on their engine and then I just may take the plunge.
This is looking real good for us guys on a budget

Kudos Dennis

[AzMarauder]

I am sorry you are confused this what the post says, SNIP

Ok, I get it now. I missed the part about the picture being an example...

I will give you a call when I get closer to selecting an S/C solution for my MkVII. I'm still in the gears and transmission phase of the project. I've looked at the Kennebell setup but KB hasn't been real responsive in answering my questions.

Thanks again...

[Dennis Reinhart]

I wanna see the real world results from someone who has the kit installed on their engine and then I just may take the plunge.
This is looking real good for us guys on a budget

Kudos Dennis


I appreciate this and as I said if we can get some one to step up and buy the first kit, I will install it for FREE

[KillJoy]

Dennis..... I will do the real world testing if you like.

You ship it to me...

I'll install it...

Take it to my local Dyno...

Run it for as long as you would like me too...

Post up the results...

Then ship her back home, you pay ;)

:up:

KillJoy

[Dennis Reinhart]

Thats a nice offer Steve but this would not work, I cannot install a brand new SC on your car then take it off, and re'sell it, and I want to do a install photo shoot on the car to, and will do a live dyno video feed. plus will need to have the pipe hand made to fit then send it to Atlanta to be duplicated.

[KillJoy]

:D

Sounds like you got a plan Dennis!

:up:

KillJoy

[magindat]

Dennis, You have a PM.

[Dennis Reinhart]

We have sold two kits this morning one is a Florida customer, he will bring the car in here for the install, and dyno tune, I want to thank every body for there interest in this kit, we will do a live video of the dyno and we will take detailed pictures of the install.

[Zack]

Offer the oil pan punch tool to the customers who do self-installs.

Anyone around Chicago who wants this, I will install it for $400.
(Or you can pay with unused gift cards to the Hardware Store!)

[Dennis Reinhart]

This should be a very easy install, and could, be done in a afternoon very easily, thanks Zack for the post

[Dennis Reinhart]

Here is what we are doing today, I have had the guys pull my car in, and clock my SC at the three O'Clock position, Tracy from Speed Fab is coming over and custom hand make the discharge pipe and then we will send that to Atlanta to be mandrel bent, since I had my car in the shop I had the guys pull my built motor out to show the color scheme, this is a 03 block with billet pistons and rods, Steel crank ARP main and head studs, Fox Lake fully massaged heads Meziere water pump, will run about 18 PSI with a SCT B2800 60 lb inj twin GT fuel pumps with a dash 8 line CPI fuel rails,

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/6/03blueM.JPG

[Kelly]

Hey Dennis!! If you don't need that pretty blue motor any more after you get the pipe fitting done, Ill take it.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Hey Dennis!! If you don't need that pretty blue motor any more after you get the pipe fitting done, Ill take it.


I could do that but you have the same thing, and I would have to paint in black HA HA.

Here are the pictures of the blower clocked and Tracy will be by today to fab up the pipe.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/6/VTETNAC.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/6/VTETNAC.jpg

[KillJoy]

Dennis...... what kind of numbers would you expect, if someone were to run this new setup.....with say.....a Meth Kit installed???

KillJoy

[Vortech347]

Get that Ricer "R" badge off the trunk!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dennis Reinhart]

Dennis...... what kind of numbers would you expect, if someone were to run this new setup.....with say.....a Meth Kit installed???

KillJoy


Good question, thats the beauty of this kit, there are many ways to go with this, with thr E trim the car should make 350/375 RWHP if you were going with a water meth setup I would spend 100.00 more and get the S Trim and the car could make over 400 RWHP.

[Master]

Unlike the ricers, I think this one has earned the "R" badge. :)

[Dennis Reinhart]

Unlike the ricers, I think this one has earned the "R" badge. :)

I think you are right


REINHART

[Master]

LOL! I never even thought of that!

[Master]

Question: If I'm running 10.5:1 on my completely built 5.0 big bore MM, would I be able to use the meth kit to allow for more boost? This is the purpose of the meth injection, is it not? To inhibit detonation at high boost? If so, I think that the "T" trim and meth kit could be a potent combination.
Thoughts?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Question: If I'm running 10.5:1 on my completely built 5.0 big bore MM, would I be able to use the meth kit to allow for more boost? This is the purpose of the meth injection, is it not? To inhibit detonation at high boost? If so, I think that the "T" trim and meth kit could be a potent combination.
Thoughts?

A T rim is a good blower and I would go with a after cooler with that

[maraudernkc]

Dennis, I wanted to do this kit last year but Scott Beer at Diablo would not tune the car for me. He said the car was too heavy and with the automatic would not be worth it. I wanted to do it and try it. Dennis I hope you get the kit to come out well and make some decent RWHP numbers. I wonder what the IAT numbers will be under full boost? Good luck on this project.

[KillJoy]

A T rim is a good blower and I would go with a after cooler with that


:up:

That sucker can make SERIOUS power! I would DEFINATELY use an intercooler!

KillJoy

PS - Have you seen DR's A2A IC....IT"S HUGE!

[Master]

Without question. It would have the heat exchanger. I'd not be skimping on this. My goal is 600 rwhp. Hoping to be at 400 in the spring without the blower, so 200 from the supercharger, I hope, is do-able.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Dennis, I wanted to do this kit last year but Scott Beer at Diablo would not tune the car for me. He said the car was too heavy and with the automatic would not be worth it. I wanted to do it and try it. Dennis I hope you get the kit to come out well and make some decent RWHP numbers. I wonder what the IAT numbers will be under full boost? Good luck on this project.


Well again with the E Trim this will not be a issue, a friend of mine in NC has already done this, and the car ran well with no issues and it made 375 RWHP, I am also toying with other ideas, if I need to I really will not know till I get the car here and on the dyno but there are many options to choose from.

One is to set the car up in a blow through,with a blow through Maf you can vent the BPV to atmosphere to reduce heat soak we could run the 05+ Maf in blow through, why? to reduce air temps. when you recirculate the BPV you keep heating air, you will see 150+ IAT going down the highway, then when you get on it the temps will drop a little but make their way back up to close to 200, so with a blow though and venting the BPV to air reduces heat soak. So when you vent this to air it really helps, KB did this on his set up, he set the car up in a blow through, along with a after cooler.

[Master]

PS
What the heck is an "A2A IC..." ?

[KillJoy]

Without question. It would have the heat exchanger. I'd not be skimping on this. My goal is 600 rwhp. Hoping to be at 400 in the spring without the blower, so 200 from the supercharger, I hope, is do-able.


Hell.....my BASE unboosted was 239RWHP. With DR's "standard" Air to Air, I was at 436RWHP!

So....I think it is doable ;)

KillJoy

[KillJoy]

PS
What the heck is an "A2A IC..." ?


Sorry..... Air to Air Intercooler :D

KillJoy

[Master]

Right. A2A. I've seen it and yes, its huge. I like the arguement for blow through configuration. What is the downside of this? Is it the standard methodology for a Vortec? I know the roots/screw styles are draw through.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Right. A2A. I've seen it and yes, its huge. I like the argument for blow through configuration. What is the downside of this? Is it the standard methodology for a Vortec? I know the roots/screw styles are draw through.

The only disadvantage in a blow through, is the Maf will peg sooner, this is not a issue here because we are not going above 400 RWHP, if some one later on wanted to go up in RWHP they can buy a Maf extender, which is easy to install.:beer:

[Master]

Very cool. I suspect I won't be making any moves in any direction until we look at the "big picture" for my car. At 600 rwhp, I suspect I'll need to do a lot of things properly.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Without question. It would have the heat exchanger. I'd not be skimping on this. My goal is 600 rwhp. Hoping to be at 400 in the spring without the blower, so 200 from the supercharger, I hope, is do-able.

You are looking at over 12K for this project, feel free to call me any time, I will help any way I can

[Master]

Yup. Will do. We've spoken on it before. The biggest problem was my compression. This is where I hope the Meth will come in. 12k to add 200 hp. though, eh? We must be looking at a number of enhancements, I'm assuming. I think I'm letting this thread drift too far anyway, so I appologize to all.

[prchrman]

Is there much difference in what is being done with the Vortech now (no cooler) and what was going to be done with the procharger a little while back? because I was for the non-cooler procharger but there was so big a hoopla made by some about it not working that FIT eventual succumbed to the nay sayers and did not even offer the kit, a bummer to me to say the least...So-----are we now saying that a non cooled blower is OK? or has it been all along? Does a Vortech work better than a Procharger or do they work about the same with the same heat build up? Just wondering because this sure got shot down last round and maybe I am missing something about the design and operation of one as compared to another because I am not seeing the same resistence as before? willie

[Dennis Reinhart]

Is there much difference in what is being done with the Vortech now (no cooler) and what was going to be done with the procharger a little while back? because I was for the non-cooler procharger but there was so big a hoopla made by some about it not working that FIT eventual succumbed to the nay sayers and did not even offer the kit, a bummer to me to say the least...So-----are we now saying that a non cooled blower is OK? or has it been all along? Does a Vortech work better than a Procharger or do they work about the same with the same heat build up? Just wondering because this sure got shot down last round and maybe I am missing something about the design and operation of one as compared to another because I am not seeing the same resistence as before? willie

Gregg answered this a few posts up, I am not here to compare Vortech and Pro charger or any other companies S/C, that is for the members to do, and I sure do not want others to start it here, and have us run in to another S/C war.

So lets keep this on track, about what I have offered here, I have done about five Lincoln Mark 8's with out after coolers, and they are also a 4000 pound cars, they also have a 4.6 DOHC motor, there is no reason why a low boost Vortech S/C will not work on the Marauder,and as I have out lined this kit can easily be upgraded with a after cooler later on. So just be patient will have a kit on a car very soon and I will post the data and the owner can post his own evaluation.

[magindat]

Is there much difference in what is being done with the Vortech now (no cooler) and what was going to be done with the procharger a little while back? because I was for the non-cooler procharger but there was so big a hoopla made by some about it not working that FIT eventual succumbed to the nay sayers and did not even offer the kit, a bummer to me to say the least...So-----are we now saying that a non cooled blower is OK? or has it been all along? Does a Vortech work better than a Procharger or do they work about the same with the same heat build up? Just wondering because this sure got shot down last round and maybe I am missing something about the design and operation of one as compared to another because I am not seeing the same resistence as before? willie

Agreed. I think it was OK all along. Perhaps there's been some tuning realizations since then? I have read about many mustangs non IC SC and see kits for the 05 up new stangs non IC and those 3V's are 9.7:1. I do, however think it is really cool to have alternatives offerred at the moderate boost/power levels I'd be comfortable with.

I'm sure many want a kick in the pants but don't want the dangerous nature of a 450-500 HP car. Until now, we'd have to pay the 450-500HP price and then de-tune. Now we have a price point that more matches our power desires.

[Justin00Stang]

In the Mustang and F150 world guys have been doing non-intercooled blowers for a long time. I think with a proper setup and proper tune the kits can still make decent power, and do it safely.

I know a Mustang is a light car, but an F150 definitely is not. My 97 4.6L short bed reg cab (smallest F150 you can get) weighed over 4500lbs.

[RCSignals]

Is there much difference in what is being done with the Vortech now (no cooler) and what was going to be done with the procharger a little while back? because I was for the non-cooler procharger but there was so big a hoopla made by some about it not working that FIT eventual succumbed to the nay sayers and did not even offer the kit, a bummer to me to say the least...So-----are we now saying that a non cooled blower is OK? or has it been all along? Does a Vortech work better than a Procharger or do they work about the same with the same heat build up? Just wondering because this sure got shot down last round and maybe I am missing something about the design and operation of one as compared to another because I am not seeing the same resistence as before? willie

did you read this?


Dennis, I wanted to do this kit last year but Scott Beer at Diablo would not tune the car for me. He said the car was too heavy and with the automatic would not be worth it. I wanted to do it and try it. Dennis I hope you get the kit to come out well and make some decent RWHP numbers. I wonder what the IAT numbers will be under full boost? Good luck on this project.

doesn't look like it was shot down by a discussion here

[Zack]

Hey Dennis, why dont you try this out?

http://i2.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/83/9a/fa29_12.JPG

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PWR-BARREL-LIQUID-to-AIR-INTERCOOLER-polished-4-x8_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ 33742QQihZ016QQitemZ2600743326 63QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[prchrman]

Gregg answered this a few posts up, I am not here to compare Vortech and Pro charger or any other companies S/C, that is for the members to do, and I sure do not want others to start it here, and have us run in to another S/C war.

So lets keep this on track, about what I have offered here, I have done about five Lincoln Mark 8's with out after coolers, and they are also a 4000 pound cars, they also have a 4.6 DOHC motor, there is no reason why a low boost Vortech S/C will not work on the Marauder,and as I have out lined this kit can easily be upgraded with a after cooler later on. So just be patient will have a kit on a car very soon and I will post the data and the owner can post his own evaluation.

I am not trying to start a SC war but am wondering why now non cooled is ok and in the past it was not with somewhat similiar setup (centrifuge)...I am not knocking the Vortech, you, or your kit (a cheaper SC is a great idea now and was when it was suggested by FIT) just trying to get an understanding of why a change of thinking around here...no one with experienced working tech knowledge (including you Dennis) of non cooled SC spoke up at that time it was ok to run a non cooled SC at 6 psi...all I heard was no real power gains, blowing because of overheating, your business will go under, blah blah blah, when several on here wanted the lower boost-cost option...I think it is a great idea and support anyone giving us more power adder options, especially upgradeable ones:burnout: ...willie

[RCSignals]

I am not trying to start a SC war but am wondering why now non cooled is ok and in the past it was not with somewhat similiar setup (centrifuge)...I am not knocking the Vortech, you, or your kit (a cheaper SC is a great idea now and was when it was suggested by FIT) just trying to get an understanding of why a change of thinking around here...no one with experienced working tech knowledge (including you Dennis) of non cooled SC spoke up at that time it was ok to run a non cooled SC at 6 psi...all I heard was no real power gains, blowing because of overheating, your business will go under, blah blah blah, when several on here wanted the lower boost-cost option...I think it is a great idea and support anyone giving us more power adder options, especially upgradeable ones:burnout: ...willie

I guess it's another day....People will either buy this downgrade kit or they'll save their money and buy a full kit all at once.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Willie, no one says you were, I am just saying this is about my Vortech kit, and what I am offering to the club, it is very easy to misunderstand what some one is typing, you can not see facial expressions or hear the tone in there voice, I just do not want to see this veer off the intended subject matter, the question you asked was answered three posts above yours, as RC pointed out, I just looked at Zack's post, and that cooler looks neat, but again I did this set up to give the members a affordable S/C kit, if you add that cooler and the heat exchanger and the pump and hoses retooling for new pipes your at a price others can not afford which defeats the purpose of this topic.

[RCSignals]

Hey Dennis, why dont you try this out?

http://i2.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/83/9a/fa29_12.JPG

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PWR-BARREL-LIQUID-to-AIR-INTERCOOLER-polished-4-x8_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ 33742QQihZ016QQitemZ2600743326 63QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW



Common sense....Air comes from Turbo or Supercharger in a ROUND PIPE. Air goes through ROUND PWR INTERCOOLER.
Air goes into ROUND throttle body.Thus...air goes in a direct manner.Fast airflow.SIMPLE.


So, I guess the key to it all is ROUND Square is out.

Air knows the difference

[Dennis Reinhart]

Well here is the completed kit installed on my car as you can see it looks very good its a clean install and very easy,
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/6/NISCSIDE_142586.jpg

The red dots show where the Maf will be installed, the one dot at the top will actualy be on the bottom so the blow off will not be seen.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/6/gtmafadapter.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/6/NISCtop.jpg

I will be doing the first kit with in the next few weeks, we are going to do this kit in a blow through maf, I have explained why in the earlier posts I am still trying to keep this under 4K and its a very tough job, thanks for all the posts and comments I think this will be a very good kit.

[RF Overlord]

I am still trying to keep this under 4K and its a very tough job How many other out-of-production cars get this kind of vendor support? I think we are very lucky to have Dennis on our side, along with all the superior vendors here at mm.net. :up:

[Zack]

I heard Vortech was having a price increase 1st of March.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I heard Vortech was having a price increase 1st of March.

Well Dennis may have to, will wait and see:burnout:

[ckadiddle]

Dennis is still evil. ;) Four grand would choke my visa card less hard than six would. Dennis is doing this for people like me that are of more modest incomes than some members are. I appreciate his efforts. Frankly, I would be less apt to pile up my MM with less HP anyhow. :) You guys would be kinda pizzed at me if I totalled a blue.

[magindat]

Dennis is still evil. ;) Four grand would choke my visa card less hard than six would. Dennis is doing this for people like me that are of more modest incomes than some members are. I appreciate his efforts. Frankly, I would be less apt to pile up my MM with less HP anyhow. :) You guys would be kinda pizzed at me if I totalled a blue.

Um, Dennis' car is blue and one of the fastest....

Whatsa matter? Chicken?

+1 for the modest income! I been doin 'baby steps'. One of these days, I'll take the plunge (but it won't be into a pool of Kool-Aid).

[Dennis Reinhart]

I heard Vortech was having a price increase 1st of March.


Procharger just released their new price lists for this new year, they are substantially higher than before, avg is about 400-500 a kit.

[LVMarauder]

Baby steps does sound good. I like this idea alot.