Vortech cold start warning

[2ndMDRebel]

Found out today that Vortechs shouldn't be started in ambient air temperatures of 25F or colder because they may have "catastrophic failure". Looks like they recommend either a heated garage or some type of oil heating device like an engine blanket or block heater.

I dl'd the .pdf owner's manuals for street and race applications off their website, here is what Vortech has to say...

regarding cold starts...

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"Never operate your engine at full throttle when the engine is cold. When starting the engine each day, allow plenty of time for the oil to reach full operating temperature before running above 2,500RPM. Full supercharger operating temperature is generally achieved after the engine water temperature has been at the normal operating range for two or three minutes."
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regarding cold weather...

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"IMPORTANT COLD WEATHER INFORMATION: In order to achieve the low noise level of Vortech superchargers, Vortech specifies manufacturing procedures that call for minimumal internal clearance. These precise tolerances however are not conducive to temperatures below 25F. Therefore, storing the vehicle in a heated garage and/or employing the use of an engine block heater/aftermarket engine blanket is required when the vehicle is subjected to a "cold start-up" in ambient temperatures below 25F. Failure to comply with this may result in immediate supercharger failure and invalidate the supercharger warranty."
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I feel lucky in that here in Maryland we just went under that this morning at 21F, its been a mild winter, but those in northern states and Canada 25F is probably more common. Good thing I have a 3rd vehicle to drive, I don't want to play cold-weather-russian-roulette with the car. Hmmm, think we can get a heated garage group buy going?

[MarauderMark]

Hmmm, think we can get a heated garage group buy going?

I'm in as long as its put in my back here;:D

[RR|Suki]

hold on you guys have these blowers and are just finding this out now?? Mine is the same way, I'm supprised ya'll weren't told about this prior, especially those in cold climates :confused:

[RF Overlord]

those in northern states and Canada 25F is probably more common.I live in MA and it was 10.8°F this morning. Now I'm REALLY glad I drive a Trilogy...

:P D'OH! :D

[Dennis Reinhart]

This is also why you never ice down the blower at the track.

[gja]

This is why I will only consider a twin-screw. Centrifugal compressors are simply inferior engineering by design, and this limitation puts a big red circle around it. And that is a simple engineering fact, like it or not.
Don't try to dazzle with high numbers and upper-end headroom. By then old man whipples invention has pulled past you. In this case, in a NE winter just being able to start up the car and move means the centrifugals are "driveway bound and cant get around" while the other blowers happily warm up and drive like they should.

[KillJoy]

I have spoke with Vortech on 4 occasions. They have ALL said that an S-Trim is safe to start and idle (up to 2000 RPM) at ANY temp.

They said they only have temp issues w/ certain models, and that the S-Trim IS NOT one of them.

KillJoy

[RR|Suki]

I have spoke with Vortech on 4 occasions. They have ALL said that an S-Trim is safe to start and idle (up to 2000 RPM) at ANY temp.

They said they only have temp issues w/ certain models, and that the S-Trim IS NOT one of them.

KillJoy

I would take that with a grain of salt, it might not happen right away but it WILL happen no matter what they say to you. I have seen it and there is no changing what you see. I think the point that is being missed is that it's a simple thing to get around, use a block heater or a garage, light a heat lamp/ electric heater and put it by the car over night... it's not hard, it really isn't a big deal. Heck I live in an apartment and it's no issue to me. Kinda like people who can't drive on KDWS in the winter. Boo Hoo

[Dennis Reinhart]

This is why I will only consider a twin-screw. Centrifugal compressors are simply inferior engineering by design, and this limitation puts a big red circle around it. And that is a simple engineering fact, like it or not.
Don't try to dazzle with high numbers and upper-end headroom. By then old man whipples invention has pulled past you. In this case, in a NE winter just being able to start up the car and move means the centrifugals are "driveway bound and cant get around" while the other blowers happily warm up and drive like they should.

I respect your opinion but your wrong, Roots blowers can have the issues as well, they can become heat soaked. They could lock up if cooled down to rapidly, so its not a perfect world with either one

[gja]

HOW am I wrong Dennis. My statement was specifically to the cold start issue. When the temp w/o wind chill is zero you are taking a very bad risk starting a centrifugal blower equiped car. You cannot get around the limitation of the design except through external means of intervention (heat blanket, block heaters, etc).
A twin screw can be started up and driven after a reasonable warmup period.

Where did I mention a roots? Did I miss something?

[RCSignals]

HOW am I wrong Dennis. My statement was specifically to the cold start issue. When the temp w/o wind chill is zero you are taking a very bad risk starting a centrifugal blower equiped car. You cannot get around the limitation of the design except through external means of intervention (heat blanket, block heaters, etc).
A twin screw can be started up and driven after a reasonable warmup period.

Where did I mention a roots? Did I miss something?

you didn't you said 'Whipple' then "the other blowers". I guess an assumption was made.....

[Dennis Reinhart]

calm down all I said was both types of blowers have similar issues, you stated

This is why I will only consider a twin-screw. Centrifugal compressors are simply inferior engineering by design,

That is where your wrong to state they are inferior, both blowers have pluses and minuses neither one is inferior.

[Dennis Reinhart]

you didn't you said 'Whipple' then "the other blowers". I guess an assumption was made.....


Thanks RC, I respect every ones opinion, I may not agree with it:beer:

[DEFYANT]

I never heard of this. Is this true? I am suprised this has not been revealed before..

If so, whats the fix if there is no garage or the car is not equipt with a block heater?

I suppose you could just let your car idle until the engine temps come up to normal, then drive it nice and easy for a few miles...?

[Joe Walsh]

No matter what S/C you have:

Cold Air = Big HP

Cold Pavement & Cold Tires = ZERO traction

Any S/C Marauder is severely traction limited 'coming out of the hole' in cold weather.

But I did not know of the low temperature operating cautions for a Centrifugal...I'm going to check out my Procharger's manual to see if this warning applies.

BTW: Who is offering a Twin Screw S/C kit for the Marauder??

[DEFYANT]

No matter what S/C you have:

Cold Air = Big HP

Cold Pavement & Cold Tires = ZERO traction

Any S/C Marauder is severely traction limited 'coming out of the hole' in cold weather.

But I did not know of the low temperature operating cautions for a Centrifugal...I'm going to check out my Procharger's manual to see if this warning applies.

BTW: Who is offering a Twin Screw S/C kit for the Marauder??

Hey Joe, the issue is cold engine (and oil) start up on a Vortech S/C car. There could be a blower failure in cold weather at start up. I assume due to lack of proper lubracation.

As for the twin screw... I know a guy who will be offering one soon.

[GreekGod]

...as I understand it, Ford tests for cold weather problems at Sault Saint Marie, Michigan. The supercharged Mustangs, F series trucks, and the GT all have Eaton 'chargers, and a warranty.

Eatons are the best. I have spoken. ;)

[Joe Walsh]

:whistle:.... :whistle:..... :whistle:

......waiting for impending S/C War to start....

:hide:

Note to self: Drink 64 oz Big Gulp for upcoming pissing contest.

[DEFYANT]

:whistle:.... :whistle:..... :whistle:

......waiting for impending S/C War to start....

:hide:

Note to self: Drink 64 oz Big Gulp for upcoming pissing contest.


Kool-Aid Joe, Kool-Aid! :D

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Defyant/koolaid37rj.jpg

Seriously, this should be a truthful and fact revealing thread. We all know what the best S/C is, it's the one each of us bought.

So ummm, if a Marauder has a plug hanging out from the grill for the block heater, can we call it the "Diesel F250" mod? :rofl:

[Raudermaster]

No, instead it should be the "PSD Marauder."

[RCSignals]

No need for any war....would be boring if our cars were all the same

[DEFYANT]

No need for any war....would be boring if our cars were all the same


War! What is it good for? Absolutly Nuthin! I say it again...

[teamrope]

I feel lucky in that here in Maryland we just went under that this morning at 21F, its been a mild winter, but those in northern states and Canada 25F is probably more common. Good thing I have a 3rd vehicle to drive, I don't want to play cold-weather-russian-roulette with the car. Hmmm, think we can get a heated garage group buy going?

I like the Idea of a beater car best. Temps get that low it's too easy to get in trouble, and it doesn't have to be your fault. I've seen to many idiots that drive the same if it's hot or cold, and they usually take out an innocent bystander in the process.

To the folks that seem to think they have to validate their choice in brand W by bashing Brand X, Y or Z, by all means. Go ahead and take a chance with the idiots out there not hitting you... Better your car than mine. :rolleyes:

[teamrope]

No need for any war....would be boring if our cars were all the same

If I wanted to be the same as the majority I'de be driving a Civic. :beer:

[RF Overlord]

I've seen to many idiots that drive the same if it's hot or cold, and they usually take out an innocent bystander in the process.



If I wanted to be the same as the majority I'de be driving a Civic.

^^^what Phil said^^^ :D

[Haggis]

^^^what Phil said^^^ :D

Who's Phil???^^^

[KillJoy]

What did Kenny Brown say about his cars? Were any special instructions given for cold weather use?

KillJoy

[Haggis]

What did Kenny Brown say about his cars? Were any special instructions given for cold weather use?

KillJoy

I always warm up my cars a few minutes before driving them, never had any problems. Besides I have other vehicles that I drive in inclement weather.

I do not remember at this time, will have to reread the paper work for specific instructions.

[Vortech347]

My dad daily drive his 05 Roush with an S-trim and starts it in -15 temps up at their condo. He lets it idle and warm up for about 10 minutes and dosn't romp on it untill his oil pressure starts to drop so that the oil is closer to operating temp.

You'll be fine. Just don't start up the car and drag down the street with it cold. :lol:

[merc]

Besides I have other vehicles that I drive in inclement weather.



http://www.scottwarrenphotography.com/images/Siberia-Sled-w-Misha.jpg

Yep, you do.

[Haggis]

Now if I had snow that might just work.^^^

[Badger]

Just don't start up the car and drag down the street with it cold. :lol:


Standard advice for any engine. Too bad my wifey keeps ignoring it with her CV>

[KillJoy]

I just got off of the phone w/ Vortech TS.

Like I said above, the S-Trim is safe at ANY temp.....as long as RPM's stay under 2000 until engine oil gets up to temp.

:up:

KillJoy

[RR|Suki]

I just got off of the phone w/ Vortech TS.

Like I said above, the S-Trim is safe at ANY temp.....as long as RPM's stay under 2000 until engine oil gets up to temp.

:up:

KillJoy

and I'll say to you again, go ahead and do it and see what happens, I can show you bills of rebuild from vortech on this very matter so believe what you want

[RR|Suki]

PS the techs at Vortech are also the ones who sent me a pulley with the wrong offset for my blower:D

[RCSignals]

I just got off of the phone w/ Vortech TS.

Like I said above, the S-Trim is safe at ANY temp.....as long as RPM's stay under 2000 until engine oil gets up to temp.

:up:

KillJoy


Are you sure they don't mean "warm the car up well before driving, and take things easy" ?

[RCSignals]

^^^what Phil said^^^ :D

Phil said it too?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Dennis,

The owners manual on the website is outdated. The correct number is 0 degrees F.

[KillJoy]

Are you sure they don't mean "warm the car up well before driving, and take things easy" ?


Yup.....that too :D .....and to NOT go over 2K w/ cold oil ;)

KillJoy

[Blackened300a]

Dennis,

The owners manual on the website is outdated. The correct number is 0 degrees F.

OK good then there is hope that I may own a SC at some point the future.
This thread was giving me that sinking feeling since I dont have a heated Garage or a nearby plug for a Block heater.

BTW, If you do own a heated Garage and/or a place to plug your block heater in, What happens on a cold day that you head to work or to run a errand and you park the car outside for a few hours?
Sure your initial start in the morning will be safe, but leaving your destination will kill your S/C?

[MarauderMark]

Yeah i read it on the Vortech site too.Ever since i got blown i park the car inside .when i use it i open the garage door start it up let the idle take the car out and thats where it stays until it's @ operating temp.So no worries here mate.:coolman:

[RR|Suki]

OK good then there is hope that I may own a SC at some point the future.
This thread was giving me that sinking feeling since I dont have a heated Garage or a nearby plug for a Block heater.

BTW, If you do own a heated Garage and/or a place to plug your block heater in, What happens on a cold day that you head to work or to run a errand and you park the car outside for a few hours?
Sure your initial start in the morning will be safe, but leaving your destination will kill your S/C?

There are engine blankets that will hold the engine heat for quite a number of hours

[snowbird]

Interesting tread. I guess we should not consider lightly the potential problems of cold starting a supercharged car.

Here is my experience: My Procharged Marauder is my daily. I use it in the winter with common sense on a disciplined start-up procedure. It sleep outside and I block heat it. This week, it was between -20 and -26C on startup. No problem since 2 winters. By reading some of the posts, i might be pushing my luck a little bit though ...

[Breadfan]

So wait, when Vortech folks go on a winter-road-trip they gotta park next to the Big-Rigs at the roadside diner and leave the car idling next to the Mack trucks while you step inside for a burger?

:D

j/k!

Good info to have though.

I am curious though, the issue appears to be related to the difficulty of cold oil to flow in those temperatures, is the problem the flow reaching the S/C unit through the feed line or the tight tolerances inside the blower not allowing cold thick oil to circulate internally properly?

If that's the case, one might think a different oil might do the trick, something like a 0W-X oil, the Mobil 1 OW products were tested at very low temps and proved to flow just about as good at these very low temps as they do at operating temperature.

That may be a safe precaution for those who still wish to drive them, even if the S-Trim is OK as Vortech says doesn't hurt to have a safety net, right?

[RCSignals]

has anyone ever set up a separate oiling system with an electric flow pump?

[Badger]

Kinda like a pre-lub set up you're thinking RC?

[KillJoy]

A s/c pre-lube would be kind of cool to have.

Peace of mind is never a bad thing to have....

KillJoy

[RCSignals]

Kinda like a pre-lub set up you're thinking RC?

that or completely separate from the engine constant lube with it's own oil reservoir

[Vortech347]

The Vortech on my stang has its own oil filter. Maybe put a heating element around that? But I doublt it would make a big enough difference

[Marauderman]

Yeah i read it on the Vortech site too.Ever since i got blown i park the car inside .when i use it i open the garage door start it up let the idle take the car out and thats where it stays until it's @ operating temp.So no worries here mate.:coolman:

Weather in or outside--#7 is treated the same way^^^^^^^^^^^

[sailsmen]

I live in the deep south so below 25* is unlikely.

In the unlikely event it is one morning I will just relieve myself on the S/C housing.;)

[Hotrauder]

I live in the deep south so below 25* is unlikely.

In the unlikely event it is one morning I will just relieve myself on the S/C housing.;)

Billy, I love and respect you way to much to post the first reply that jumped into my head. It would have been a joke, you would have laughed; but of course jokes don't work in S/C threads so I am all cramped up on the floor biting my lip and being good. Dennis:beer:

[teamrope]

Billy, I love and respect you way to much to post the first reply that jumped into my head. It would have been a joke, you would have laughed; but of course jokes don't work in S/C threads so I am all cramped up on the floor biting my lip and being good. Dennis:beer:

As long as it's a joke ment in good fun and not a flame I won't mind... :beer:

[Aren Jay]

Reviving this thread.

Given that I have, like every car up here, a block heater. And that there is some kind of engine blanket thingy, that can be used as well.

(can this engine blanket be installed for the winter month or is it a put on when you stop thing?)

Anyway I think i'm going to have to talk to Dennis soon.

[MarauderMark]

Weather in or outside--#7 is treated the same way^^^^^^^^^^^

I love it when great minds think alike:)

[Marauderman]

I love it when great minds think alike:)

Yeah Mark---I don't get it why there is a problem in the first place---who would get into a cold engine car and start it and pull out with high rpms possibily ....that is stupid---regardless of type engine......stock or blown---doesn't matter-- doing what we do is the only sence to me------oh well...

[MarauderMark]

Yeah Mark---I don't get it why there is a problem in the first place---who would get into a cold engine car and start it and pull out with high rpms possibily ....that is stupid---regardless of type engine......stock or blown---doesn't matter-- doing what we do is the only sence to me------oh well...

So very true had to teach son #3 about doing that in the morning. id be in bedd and VArrooooooooom a coupld times in a row got up in my jammys went to the door YO yo yo dont do that again.but he didnt know is what he told me ..Whew save the motor...