GM Apologizes to Customers

[Ross]

Intersting Story. http://slate.msn.com/id/2084377/

[ghost]

GM needs to apologize - for discontinuing some great cars and for being Generally stupid.

Eric

[Bigdogjim]

Ok So why the FWD Impala SS ??

[ghost]

Originally posted by Bigdogjim
Ok So why the FWD Impala SS ??

That's a good question. That decision falls within the Generally stupid category. ;) They're not going to learn until Ford reams them a bigger hole than it now already does.

I don't know about GM anymore. <SHAKES HEAD>

Eric

[notacop]

so when are they gonna apologize for the horrible piston slap problems on the 2001 suburban 6.0L engines? sorry, (venting). this is typical GM though. sounds like a childish plea to me: "no mr. import driver, don't go buy another honda. we'll be good this time, we promise" gm, why not prove this with performance? (if you really have turned the corner)

[BlackHole]

They'er reminding me on how Chrysler was in the 80's nothing of any earth shatering in the performance department.

[RCSignals]

You must admit, it's an interesting marketing ploy.
Notice though, no refunds or rebates come with the apology

[Zack]

When the Monte Carlo SS is real wheel drive and packs an LS1 under the hood, then they will have my complete forgiveness.
Until then, GM cars will be gettin' the smackdown by my Marauder.

[RCSignals]

http://www.gm.com/cgi-bin/pr_display.pl?5074

http://www.gm.com/vc/story/home_flash.htm

[CRC]

Piston slap and cold start knocks and oil consumption are all to common in all GM products. MM is the first ford product I have ever owned...Always been a GM guy....No more GM products for me. 95 Z71 cold start Knock 97 Formula WS-6 Oil leak @ intake 99 Yukon Denali Cold start Knock and coolant leak from head gasket. 10K on MM without anything but trim problems.

[Top_Fuel]

I think Ford needs to join the parade and do some apologizing, too.

Anyone have a 4.2 in an F-150? Check out http://www.leakingfords.com

How about a 98-up 4.6 or 5.4 F-150, Expedition, etc? Better check your right rear headgasket for an oil leak.

Own a Crown Vic? It's only a matter of time before your intake cracks and spews coolant all over the place.

Own a Taurus/Sable/Windstar with a 3.8? If your headgaskets don't fail, your transmission just might. Check out the Taurus Transmission Page (http://members.aol.com/MKBradley/)

Ford never accepted responsibility for any of these issues...but quality is still Job 1????

I'm not anti-Ford...I just think ALL domestic manufacturers could do a lot more to improve their image. Stop hanging your customers out to dry when obvious engineering defects make it out the door. A longer drivetrain warranty would be a good start. Build a quality product and you won't have to worry about breaking the bank with warranty claims.

-Greg

[prchrman]

^^I agree^^ just the Ford AOD tranny is enough to make you sick...and I am a blue oval guy...and how bout pintos (zee bombs), vegas (35,000 mile motors), 80s chevy cams and rear ends, mopar inline diode thingys and lean burn systems...and the worst part is they kept producing after knowing they had issues...

[jgc61sr2002]

Top - My son had Cougar with the 3.8 and the head gaskets went after the warranty was over. You are correct this and other common problems were never recognized by FMC. There should have been a recall.:(

[SergntMac]

All of this stuff...From one mention of the big old general...Go figure.

[RCSignals]

There was a time cars came with a 12 month or less warranty, and people accepted that small things would fail over time, and mostly under 50,000 miles. Including gaskets.
Now people with 150,000 miles on an otherwise trouble free car complain if the smallest thing fails.

[prchrman]

Originally posted by RCSignals
There was a time cars came with a 12 month or less warranty, and people accepted that small things would fail over time, and mostly under 50,000 miles. Including gaskets.



This is the very reason our streets are now filled with imports...period!...the quality bar was raised...and personnally I believe it was needed...

[Fourth Horseman]

Agreed. I don't think domestic car manufacturers will take back any significant portion of lost market share until they make similarly significant improvements in overall quality. Some of the troubles I've had on the last couple FoMoCo products I've owned are really unacceptable, IMO.

[Top_Fuel]

Ford has replaced a lot of engines in low-mileage, late-model SUVs and trucks due to defective head gaskets and/or defective head/block castings. If you were lucky, the problem showed up before your 3/36 warranty ran out or you had an extended warranty.

If you were unlucky (as many have been), you had a service manager telling you "there's nothing we can do" as you are left holding a $5K bill for an engine replacement for your $45,000 Eddie Baur Expedition you just bought 3 years ago. "But I thought they were Built Ford Tough?"

All the domestic manufacturers seem to lack a decent sense of responsibility for documented factory defects in their products.

I can accept a piece of loose trim at 50,000 miles...I just can't accept a bad engine at 50,000 mi. How do they expect to build a market base by hanging their customers out to dry?


-Greg

[VaderSS]

I have to say, GM and Ford have made huge advances since the '80s, but I feel they both have a long way to go.

Like the article mentions, they've been turning corners for years...

As for the Wimpala SS, it's NOT a stupid decision, it's something that the Wimpala community has been demanding for years, and I lay odds that they will blow the doors of of MM sales, and sell more of them than they sold B-body SS's.

Jon Moss recently mentioned that the Impala will be recieving a V8 within a few years, and that there was a 50/50 chance of it being RWD. Considering all of the up and coming GM RWD platforms, it is certainly a possibility.

Personally, I could care less though. GM built the right car for me back in '96...

Now if Mercury will only do a MM convertible...

[Bigdogjim]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Top_Fuel
[B]Ford has replaced a lot of engines in low-mileage, late-model SUVs and trucks due to defective head gaskets and/or defective head/block castings. If you were lucky, the problem showed up before your 3/36 warranty ran out or you had an extended warranty.

If you were unlucky (as many have been), you had a service manager telling you "there's nothing we can do" as you are left holding a $5K bill for an engine replacement for your $45,000 Eddie Baur Expedition you just bought 3 years ago. "But I thought they were Built Ford Tough?"


I just had that happen to one of E-350 work vans 22 months on the road 146,650 miles and it was due to bad casting of the left head. The fleet dealer laugh when I asked if they stand behind it? I usally get 350,000 to 400,000 miles off 5.4L gas engines.
Rebuilt out the door $4607.66

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RCSignals
Now people with 150,000 miles on an otherwise trouble free car complain if the smallest thing fails.


Agreed... but that's where the quality bar has been raised to. If my old 1984 and 1985 P.O.S Honda Civics could run 200000 + miles without interior rattles (incredible on these cheap cars, considering our temperature swings up here), then there's no excuse for the CONSTANT rattles in my 1987 GTA, which is RWD and is therefore supposed to be 'better'. Yes, they've come a long way, my 1998 WS6 was my preferred 'easy' car (ie. least hassles to enjoy), but after this really long winter (ie. storage), I'm noticing all sorts of noises and creaks after having spent so much time with my Civic.

And speaking of mileage, I can accept (sort of...) a wiring harness getting damaged after 150000 miles, but consider my MM shorted itself out at barely over 3000 miles on the clock! I have a squeaky seat since the car was practically brand new. My brake lights were wonky. There was a dangling loose wire in my trunk. And paint that scratches itself the moment the clear coat touches it at the factory...

Lots of fun before 15000 miles, much less 150000. (I still haven't been reimbursed for all that happened that fateful day my MM shorted out on me 2 hours away from home... wanna bet they will refuse to own up to that whole situation?)

[RCSignals]

My experience with Hondas when something goes wrong, is that their attitude is "We don't build cars that have problems"
They also will not do anything if a problem occurs "just out of warranty", even if it's a known problem. "sorry it didn't happen sooner, it would have been covered"
I know people who have had Ford honour work "just out of warranty" I understand that a dealer can also authorise at least one out of warranty repair to be covered by warranty.

Even BDJ well out of warrant head replacement could probably be covered if the dealer had wanted to pursue the fault in manufacture angle.

Every manufacturer has replaced engines and mechanical parts before 50,000 miles. Mercedes has, BMW has, certainly GM has.

[Top_Fuel]

Originally posted by RCSignals
I know people who have had Ford honour work "just out of warranty" I understand that a dealer can also authorise at least one out of warranty repair to be covered by warranty.
That's true in limited cases. According to service managers on flatratetech.com, AWA (after warranty assistance) repairs are generally only made for customers who have most of their service work performed at the dealer. Kind of a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" program. Does anyone actually go to a dealer for service anymore? ;)

If you don't have your oil changes, brake jobs, alignments, etc done at the dealer...your chance of receiving after warranty assistance goes WAY down. For every person who might get a break, there are probably 2 or 3 others being told "you need a new engine and there's nothing we can do." Unfortunately, I know 2 people with 4.6 Expeditions who would have had to pay for engine replacements at 40K miles (due to a factory defect) if they didn't have extended warranties.

The point of my posts is just to say that I'm not convinced Ford is different than any other domestic manufacturer when it comes to standing behind their products. What's that old saying... "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." :D

-Greg

[RCSignals]

Some dealerships probably do that, however, it's not them paying for that "out of warranty" repair, it's Ford.
Personally, from my experience and other family members experience, Ford is different from other domestic manufacturers in standing behind their products, in that they are more likely to.
Sure, there are always stories of someone who complains of a problem, but most of the time, once you get their whole story, you begin to understand why they were denied for something.
For every loud cry, I'm sure there are many happy customers we just never read about.