Woohoo... he runs now!

[JonW]

We finally got a break in the weather here in MO and I was able to get the goodies installed in my Marauder: 4.10 gears, 3000 stall TC, 180 t-stat, and a tune.

:D :D :D

It's like a whole different car. To tell the truth, I was a little disappointed in my Marauder when I got it, because it wasn't much quicker than my modded Crown Vic Sport. But it is now! It's like a whole different animal. And I have yet to install my Borla mufflers or UDPs. That's next week.

For anyone on the fence about 4.10s or the TC, get off the fence and do it. The difference in the car is like night and day. And before I got the tune, the car felt corked up. Not now, it runs like a scalded ape.

There is a slight slipping feeling to the transmission for just a moment when you take off at part throttle, and that is the high stall converter. And with the 4.10s, I'm turning a few more revs at highway speed. But those small trade-offs are well worth the big increase in performance that they provide.

[ckadiddle]

Both of those are on my eventual mod list.

[JMan]

Congrats Jon!

Best of luck with your new found power. Enjoy it and be safe!

J

[Blackened300a]

There is a slight slipping feeling to the transmission for just a moment when you take off at part throttle, and that is the high stall converter.

I havent noticed this with my convertor. Im sure that slip can be tuned out.

[Bigdogjim]

Enjoy your new found power:burnout:

[GreekGod]

...I contend you should lose the 180 'stat and go back to OEM. The added engine wear from running too cold isn't worth the small hp increase.

[JonW]

I thought the colder 'stat was to help control pinging with the higher timing. And why do you say there will be engine damage?

[Blackened300a]

I didnt even notice any drop in temps on the gauge when I installed the 180 stat.
When installing a tune its better to have a lower temp to avoid pinging and detonation as was said.

[GreekGod]

Some may disagree, but ring wear goes up exponentially (of an increase, becoming more and more rapid) with lower operating temperatures. It is really a tuners trick for 1/4 mile racing.

Your actual operating temperature is more complicated than just the rating of the thermostat. For one thing, the rating is the temp it starts to open.

The Ford 'stat. for our MM's applies to driving in Alaska, Hawaii, Arizona, or Minnesota, and may be a compromise, but the whole engine and drivetrain is tuned to run hotter than what a 180 might allow.

We all seem to like to "mod" our cars, but messing with the 'stat might be counter-productive in the long haul. I like to try to "run the wheels off of" whatever I drive, so I'm more concerned with how it performs after 100,000 miles, rather than the latest 1/4 mile.

I'm sure there is a percentage of MM owners that have a throwaway mentality with buying and selling what they drive. I like to think most of us want to make them a keeper.

[JonW]

The Ford 'stat. for our MM's applies to driving in Alaska, Hawaii, Arizona, or Minnesota, and may be a compromise, but the whole engine and drivetrain is tuned to run hotter than what a 180 might allow.


I agree. But from the factory, the car is tuned more for emissions and fuel mileage than for performance. A hotter engine is more emissions-friendly. I'm not saying you're wrong about engine wear, but I don't think that is the main intent of the factory thermostat.

My car is definitely a keeper, but it will see less than 3000 miles per year use, so I'm not as concerned with 100,000+ miles.

Any other comments from those running a 180 t-stat?

[sailsmen]

Look at my sig, had the 180* stat since 2,500 miles.

She does not burn a drop of oil.

I had Dyno runs done 20+K s/c miles apart w/ the same ( w/in 3+/-) HP & TQ #'s on basically the same tune.

[Blackened300a]

180 stat and Denso plugs were my very first mods at 25K miles, Im now at 55K and not a single engine issue.

[RF Overlord]

I thought the colder 'stat was to help control pinging with the higher timing. That is correct...after all, it can take only a few seconds of detonation at WOT to destroy a motor, so I think the very small increase in wear is a fair trade for reducing detonation.

[Raudermaster]

Congrats Jon! You beat me to installing the T/C and gears. I haven't bought the gears yet though, but they're on my list. How is the gas mileage though? I mean, I drive to school a few days a week, and it's about 15-20 miles one way. I can go just about two weeks on a full tank, and I definately don't want to be filling up every 3 days.

[JonW]

Rauder, if you can keep your foot out of it (yeah, right), you probably won't see much effect on your gas mileage. It actually may stay the same or go up slightly around town, since with the 4.10s you need less throttle to get the car rolling. You'll probably see a slight drop on the highway, since your rpms will be higher at cruising speed. But no more than you fill up, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If the fuel mileage is a real big concern, ask your tuner about giving you two tunes, one for performance and one for 87 octane. You could run the 87 octane tune back and forth to school during the week and switch to the performance tune on the weekends. Of course, on the weekends you'll be out on search and destroy missions for Mustangs, so you won't have any fuel mileage anyway :)

[RF Overlord]

It actually may stay the same or go up slightly around town, since with the 4.10s you need less throttle to get the car rolling. You'll probably see a slight drop on the highway, since your rpms will be higher at cruising speed. That's it in a nutshell.

[Raudermaster]

Thanks Jon. I'm going to do it anyway. I have to see what it's like with the combo with the T/C.
-Jarod

[metroplex]

That is correct...after all, it can take only a few seconds of detonation at WOT to destroy a motor, so I think the very small increase in wear is a fair trade for reducing detonation.

Run slightly colder spark plugs if necessary to prevent detonation. That is what Ford does on its truck/van modular V8s. The stock T-stat is designed to allow the engine to run at optimum temperatures. While this is needed for reduced emissions and better gas mileage, what many people fail to realize is that a cold engine is LESS efficient than a warm engine which means you LOSE power with a colder engine. A lot of people correlate a hot engine with the summer, and a loss of power. The reason heat soaking robs your engine of power is that the air intake becomes saturated with residual engine heat and causes the IAT to read higher than normal. The PCM sees this and pulls ignition timing. The MAF and zip tube can absorb quite a bit of radiation. This is the same reason why you want to ice/cool down the supercharger intake (using the intercooler system) at the track and not the engine itself.

Ideally you want the engine itself at optimum temperatures, with a very cold and dense air intake (lots of oxygen) for maximum performance (even more important with forced induction). With the engine fully warmed up, the exhaust is at the optimum temperatures and the rotating parts in the engine are running smoothly.

[rauder775]

Perhaps a stupid question, but do you have to do the converter change w/ the 4:10 gears? I have been considering the gears, but really did not want to mess w/ the tranny. Perhaps, I'm too old school where I had not done converter changes unless serious 1/4 mile use. This is a "aggressively used" street car instead.

[JonW]

No, you can do the gears and converter independently of each other. If you only pick one, I'd suggest the gears. But you know you'll have to have a tune if you do the gears, right?

[Ed Tarras]

I agree there is a difference in performance with the mods, but I still wonder if I should have just bought a Charger. I have 4:10's, 3000 stall T/C and the xcal. from Lideo. Still think the stock Charger is faster but won't know for sure until I get to the track. I like the difference the 3000 stall made, at least I have some bottom end performance. Wonder if I need to send my xcal back and have it reprogramed? Maybe that will help to get more performance. Hate to think I'm wasting my money.

[metroplex]

I'd recommend upgrading the Marauder. The Charger R/T in stock form will run low to mid 14s. If you can bypass the torque limiters on the R/T and swap in some REAL gears instead of the 2.82s, it will fly. The Charger SRT-8 will run 13s in stock form.

If Daimler had worked more closely with aftermarket parts vendors, they would have gotten a larger market for add-ons right from the get-go. Those Hemi motors already punch out enough torque to totally decimate high 14s Panthers off the line (My Vic runs 14.9/15.0 and it got the doors sucked off by a Charger R/T) in naturally aspirated form, and are total monsters with forced induction.

The Charger R/T is also going to cost you more money up-front. You've already paid for the Marauder, or are finishing the payments.

[SlkMerc]

Ive wanted to run the 89 in my car since gas went to $3.20 a gallon for the 91. Ive been told many times here that since the car was designed to run on 91, detonation would make the motor go boom boom. Validation anyone?

[JonW]

The Marauder has the advantage of relatively cheap and time-tested mods, and a lot of folks with experience under their belts. And it doesn't have the all-intrusive computer that the Charger has. If I want roast the tires on the Marauder, I can. If I want to throw it into a slide, I can. Not so the Charger. HAL won't let you do it.

The Charger is the better car since it's a newer Mercedes-derived platform. But the Marauder has an old-school musclecar feel to it that I like, and even with the chrome wheels, it has more stealth factor than the Charger. I can't wait for my first Mustang kill with my Marauder. I hope the kid tells all his buddies that some old guy in a Grand Marquis blew him into the weeds.
:)