MM vs CVPI

[murphypeople]

How close is our MMs to the CVPI? I don't intend to bring us into the weeds with this question...I hope it is not an apples vs oranges thing. I have considered buying a CVPI in the past but could not find (didn't look hard either) the right unit.
Wondering outloud...:rolleyes:
Tony:burnout:

[murphypeople]

I am aware of this site (http://www.fordforums.com/showthread.php?t=146639) but I guess I am not familiar with my MM yet; let alone the CVPI to tell the diff...
T

[murphypeople]

Well I guess I am on the path to answering my own question.
This QT is from a different thread:
""P71's and civilian models have the same engine. There is no such things as a "Police Interceptor" engine. The police cars and grandma's Crown Vic have the same engine...period. The P71 does have dual exhaust which adds some horsepower but the civilian models were also available with dual exhaust as part of an option package (Sport package or HPP package). My '97 Grand Marquis GS has the "sport" package and thus has factory dual exhaust and rear air suspension.""
I guess I am wondering about the subtle differences between the MM & CVPI. Probably not good forum manners to think out loud.:P
Flame suit on…:flamer:
T

[Marauder386]

Our Marauders have a Dual OverHead Cam...CVPI's a Single OverHead Cam...

We have a four-speed transmission...CVPI's ( I believe ) have a five-speed...

Chime in everyone...lets clear the air for murph !


:cool:

[JonW]

I don't believe the CVPIs have a 5-speed trans.

I had an '02 Crown Vic Sport, which comes with dual exhaust and 3.23 gears. I modded it with a tune, UDP, Marauder air box and MAF, and polished upper plenum. It ran very well.

My Marauder is modded with 4.10 gears, 3000 stall TC, UDP, and a tune. There is NO comparison between it and my Sport. The Marauder will leave the Sport in it's tracks, wondering what the hell happened.

The Sport had 239 hp from the factory, as did the '02 CVPIs. I think the newer CVPIs have 250 hp. But the Marauder has 302 hp and better breathing. So, in a way it's comparing apples with apples, and in a way it's not. You start out with a lot more with the Marauder.

[hal510]

What do stock marauders run in the 1/4 mile?

[sailsmen]

The best I heard in cool/dry air was 14.5.

TTA a member here.

[Kennyrauder]

:banana2:
The best I heard in cool/dry air was 14.5.

TTA a member here.
Boy that car had to have a big tail wind for sure.

[hal510]

Thats good. But whats an average time?

[Ryans PI]

Statring in 2004, the PI gets 250HP, thanks to the MM airbox and MAF. The civilian model does not come with that-rated at 239HP with the HPP or Sport Package. Both the PI and MM have 4 speed autos. PI is offered with both 3.27 and 3.55 gears as well.

Over all, the MM is quicker than the PI thanks to its DOHC engine-something that would be nice in the PI.

[JMan]

Well I guess I am on the path to answering my own question.
This QT is from a different thread:
""P71's and civilian models have the same engine. There is no such things as a "Police Interceptor" engine. The police cars and grandma's Crown Vic have the same engine...period. The P71 does have dual exhaust which adds some horsepower but the civilian models were also available with dual exhaust as part of an option package (Sport package or HPP package). My '97 Grand Marquis GS has the "sport" package and thus has factory dual exhaust and rear air suspension.""
I guess I am wondering about the subtle differences between the MM & CVPI. Probably not good forum manners to think out loud.:P
Flame suit on…:flamer:
T

I hate to disagree with the above, but late model PI's have something different engine-wise. All modular V-8's have a little tag on the timing cover on the driver's side. MM's tags have the number "540" on them. The later PI's tag has "POL" on them. It's still a VIN "W" but there's something different. The civi cars have a number. I don't know what is different and certainly nothing in the outward appearance of the engine, intake or throttle body is unique, but something must be. "POL" only appears on Police Interceptors. [JMan jumps into flame suit].

As far as the difference between the PI and the MM - while they are the same car in effect, the MM is made for luxury, looks, sounds and speed. It is the "Cobra" of the Panther family. A PI or Sport/LSE/HPP would be akin to a Panther "GT". The PI is the plainest, rawest and least luxurious of them all. A 3.55 rar PI would likely be the fastest in the eighth mile as well. The two-valve engines produce greater torque at lower RPM's. 660 feet from the starting line, the MM blows them all away, hands down, period.

You want an intimidating stoplight racer? Find a 3.55 axled PI from '03 or '04. You want luxury, respect and stares anywhere you go? Get a Marauder. You want to modify it into a really fast car? Marauder again! You want a mix of luxury, practicality and performance and don't mind the depreciation? Maybe a Sport/LSE/HPP is for you.

Best luck in your decisions,

My $.02-

J

[Eric91Z]

I am a big fan of the Panther platform myself, especially since no one else does full frame, RWD, 4-door cars any more (currently). But more importantly because they are tough and will run a long time.

That being said, I think the best of both worlds is a Marauder and another Panther car as a daily driver.

My Marauder is a daily driver and has served well as such. That being said, I have put way more miles on it than I would have liked and some wear and tear on a car that I plan on keeping for a long time to come.

I think a CVPI, Crown Vic HPP, or GM LSE would suite me well as a daily driver/beater (or maybe a '95 or '96 GM B-Body car - Caprice, Buick Roadmaster, Cadillac Fleetwood Broughm, etc). The CVPI could not be a basket case, though. And I think everyone else has covered the differences (motor, tranny, torque converter, gears, interior, headlights, rear end treatment, foglights, wheels).

[DEFYANT]

CVPI = pre 2005 Mustang GT

MM = Mustang Mach 1

Ca'mon Ford, give the CVPI the 3 valve SOHC. Detune it to 295 HP. Thats right - detune it. Why? Cuz "300 hp" might spook some LEO agencys.

[hwy73]

I agree with Charlie, but don't detune it, do it like the old days and just advertise it at 295 hp for the benefit of those in the ivory tower. Trickery and deceit are allowed when it comes to catching the bad guys.

[RCSignals]

CVPI = pre 2005 Mustang GT

MM = Mustang Mach 1

Ca'mon Ford, give the CVPI the 3 valve SOHC.

I agree, but why not across the whole Panther line.
It would seem to be more efficient to produce the 3 valve head for everything, that else is the 2v used for these days?

[G-Man]

From 2005 - Pres, the CVPI has the 250HP version of the 4.6L. The power difference comes from the Marauder Airbox, MAF, a higher compression ratio of 9.6:1 vs the civilian Sport, 239HP version w/ 9.38:1 compression, and a revised computer. That's why the numbers are different on the PI engines. It's debateable to say that the PI has a hotter engine than the civilian CV (it did pick up 11 more HP), but it is definately a unique engine, even if by very subtle changes.

The new PI runs better than the old ones, but it still won't touch an MM.

[DEFYANT]

From 2005 - Pres, the CVPI has the 250HP version of the 4.6L. The power difference comes from the Marauder Airbox, MAF, a higher compression ratio of 9.6:1 vs the civilian Sport, 239HP version w/ 9.38:1 compression, and a revised computer. That's why the numbers are different on the PI engines. It's debateable to say that the PI has a hotter engine than the civilian CV (it did pick up 11 more HP), but it is definately a unique engine, even if by very subtle changes.

The new PI runs better than the old ones, but it still won't touch an MM.

I drove a new one with the fly-by-wire throttle. Made me wanna :puke:. LAG! I'd like to see it after a tune!

I like to feel the throttle blades move, the return spring get tight, and the set screw at Wide! Open! Throttle! with my right foot..

[G-Man]

I drove a new one with the fly-by-wire throttle. Made me wanna :puke:. LAG! I'd like to see it after a tune!

I like to feel the throttle blades move, the return spring get tight, and the set screw at Wide! Open! Throttle! with my right foot..

I know. Mine has the drive-by-wire. It's hard to get used too. I don't like the computers to think for me.

[cyclopsram]

120000plus cv and gm annually would seem to justify keeping it...

[rayjay]

"300 hp" might spook some LEO agencys.

BINGO! Our Chargers are being ordered with the V6 for the very reason stated above. The 6 is alleged to make 250hp, we'll see. :shake:

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

The CVPI is a lot slower than the MM. 0-60 times on a stock Marauder is around 7.0-7.5 seconds, depending on what magazine tested it. A CVPI is around 8.5 seconds. 50 horsepower is a BIG difference, stock for stock. Plus the CVPI gets the low rpm slug 4.6 SOHC engine vs the 4.6 DOHC.

[SilverSport]

This thread is dear to my heart. After much searching and researching, I decided against the MM in favor of my 03 CVLX Sport. Price had a lot to do with it. I couldn't find a decent MM in my neck of the woods for less than 17K. I did however find my car, with 36k miles and not a ding on it for 11,500. The Sport has buckets and a console, 17" wheels, duals and 3.27 gear. Around town, the car feels like a Marauder with better low end torque, but after 60 the MM leaves me like I have the e-brake on. 0-60 times are less than a second apart, a decent Sport will pull under 8 secs times. I don't have to run premium and my insurance is lower. For an everyday commmuter (250 miles weekly) I really enjoy my Sport and believe its a good alternative to a Marauder. I wouldn't mind that extra 60 HP though.

[G-Man]

BINGO! Our Chargers are being ordered with the V6 for the very reason stated above. The 6 is alleged to make 250hp, we'll see. :shake:

They do make 250HP, but they are slow. I chased a Montgomery County Deputy, he had an '07 Charger, while I had an '02 intrepid, both had 250HP 3.5L V6's. At least he had a 5-speed. I was up his a@! the whole time.

No comparison to the Hemi's. They really haul.

[RCSignals]

BINGO! Our Chargers are being ordered with the V6 for the very reason stated above. The 6 is alleged to make 250hp, we'll see. :shake:

there s also a big price difference between the v6 and 'hemi'

[RCSignals]

I drove a new one with the fly-by-wire throttle. Made me wanna :puke:. LAG! I'd like to see it after a tune!

I like to feel the throttle blades move, the return spring get tight, and the set screw at Wide! Open! Throttle! with my right foot..

Sadly, the direct link is gone forever

[Vortech347]

I've ran my buddy's full loaded 01 cruiser 0-80. I think I was at 80 before he got near 60.

Bwaahahah

[Drock96Marquis]

I think SilverSport's reply was the best yet.


The Marauder boasts better top end performance, the 2vs better low-end response.
The 2v engines are, without a doubt (don't even try to dispute) more reliable than the 4vs. Too bad they aren't as fast :biggrin:

Mechanically, an MM is somewhat of an HPP/CVPI combo.
It uses comparable-to HPP suspension (same RAS, slightly tweaked shocks, front springs are closer in spring rate to HPP than CVPI)
The driveshaft is aluminum, like a CVPI, but has a yoke dampner to reduce NVH (civilian application) Along with it is the elongated tailshaft housing, as used in the CVPI and Town Cars.
The Rear axle is the same 8.8" 28 spline as use in the 3.55 CVPI w/ LSD (which is still the same as all, just with a new ring/pinion and carrier)
Some people were told they have a 31 spline "limo" rear axle in their Marauders, well, they don't lol.
Control arms, etc are all standard production components.
The steering rack is most similar to the CVPI unit.

As it turns out, the Marauder uses the same transmission as the CVPI in both 2003, and 2004. The Marauder application had a unique t/c for 2004 (we are pretty sure at least)

Basically, the only notable mechanical difference is that engine. 4.6l 4v DOHC 32v versus the 4.6l 2v SOHC 16v which has been used since 1991 in the Town Car, and 1992 in the CV/GM.



Granted, the MM has it's share of trim/features.
Though, an LX Sport has many comparable features to a Marauder. Leather bucket seats, the same center console with floor shifter, EATC, redundant controls, monochromatic trim, unique wheels, etc.
The MM's heated seat option was the same as the production CV/GMQ, as well as the moonroof option.
Interior-wise; the MM has some dot matrix stuff printed over the shifter bezel, the shifter collar and button are left unfinished/plain black plastic, and standard 1995+ GMQ dash trims are given the dot matrix look as well.
The steering wheel eas the same as the CV/GM w/ wheel controls, but they got pref leather instead of solid.
The instrument cluser is given a stain aluminum colored face, and there is a tachometer. All 2006+ panthers now have a tachometer, however (and it is not just a recolored marauder cluster)
The seats are uniquly trimmed, but are copied by the GMQ GS Two-Tone seats, with a Mercury badge embossed implace of the God's head.

[DEFYANT]

I think SilverSport's reply was the best yet.


The Marauder boasts better top end performance, the 2vs better low-end response.
The 2v engines are, without a doubt (don't even try to dispute) more reliable than the 4vs. Too bad they aren't as fast :biggrin:

Mechanically, an MM is somewhat of an HPP/CVPI combo.
It uses comparable-to HPP suspension (same RAS, slightly tweaked shocks, front springs are closer in spring rate to HPP than CVPI)
The driveshaft is aluminum, like a CVPI, but has a yoke dampner to reduce NVH (civilian application) Along with it is the elongated tailshaft housing, as used in the CVPI and Town Cars.
The Rear axle is the same 8.8" 28 spline as use in the 3.55 CVPI w/ LSD (which is still the same as all, just with a new ring/pinion and carrier)
Some people were told they have a 31 spline "limo" rear axle in their Marauders, well, they don't lol.
Control arms, etc are all standard production components.
The steering rack is most similar to the CVPI unit.

As it turns out, the Marauder uses the same transmission as the CVPI in both 2003, and 2004. The Marauder application had a unique t/c for 2004 (we are pretty sure at least)

Basically, the only notable mechanical difference is that engine. 4.6l 4v DOHC 32v versus the 4.6l 2v SOHC 16v which has been used since 1991 in the Town Car, and 1992 in the CV/GM.



Granted, the MM has it's share of trim/features.
Though, an LX Sport has many comparable features to a Marauder. Leather bucket seats, the same center console with floor shifter, EATC, redundant controls, monochromatic trim, unique wheels, etc.
The MM's heated seat option was the same as the production CV/GMQ, as well as the moonroof option.
Interior-wise; the MM has some dot matrix stuff printed over the shifter bezel, the shifter collar and button are left unfinished/plain black plastic, and standard 1995+ GMQ dash trims are given the dot matrix look as well.
The steering wheel eas the same as the CV/GM w/ wheel controls, but they got pref leather instead of solid.
The instrument cluser is given a stain aluminum colored face, and there is a tachometer. All 2006+ panthers now have a tachometer, however (and it is not just a recolored marauder cluster)
The seats are uniquly trimmed, but are copied by the GMQ GS Two-Tone seats, with a Mercury badge embossed implace of the God's head.


Now all they need to do is add teh 4V to the GM! They still wont call it a MM:mad:

[RCSignals]

Now all they need to do is add teh 4V to the GM! They still wont call it a MM:mad:

Even the 3v would do

[GreekGod]

'05 < Panthers have 31 spline axles.

[OneBADLsE]

im thinkin about an 03' sport... black on black. Wonder how much i can get one for....

[JMan]

im thinkin about an 03' sport... black on black. Wonder how much i can get one for....

Dude,
If you're gonna modify it, go for the gusto and get a Marauder! There is no high-performance gear made for the CV. Plus the '03 Sports still have a little chrome on them, they're not fully monochromatic like the '04's.

What's wrong with the car you have? A set of '02 Sport wheels and some God's Head center caps would really set it apart! You do have the option of "dished" wheels the '03 and up crowd doesn't. Food for thought.

J

[SilverSport]

im thinkin about an 03' sport... black on black. Wonder how much i can get one for....

Like I posted before, I bought mine for 11,500 with 36k miles in Denville NJ, and probably could have done better with more looking. They did however over value my trade by about 1000 so in reality I paid 10,500. Thats what you should shoot for. When I was looking on Autotrader and Cars.com, there were a few Sports out your way and on the Island. If you notice one on there for more than a couple weeks, hit them with a low ball price. They may take it just to move the car. If you find an 04 it may have a sunroof, which is a big bonus!

[sicilianmarquis]

the cvpi are the same motor as the regular crown vic and grand marquis (4.6l 2v) i.e. the maruader has the (4.6l 4v) the only difference is the cvpi has duel exhaust, a few interior difference, and the engine has no rev limiter or top speed regulator, so with no rev limiter comes, different shift pionts, and\or a few more rear whell horse power

[PhastPhil]

Like I posted before, I bought mine for 11,500 with 36k miles in Denville NJ

So that's what happened to my CV Sport. Well, it would have been mine.
Did you buy it at a Honda dealer?
Someone here was kind enough to stop by to look at it, but it was sold. Oh well, I'll keep looking. I'm glad to see it is now a member here. They don't sit on the lots for too long. I also just missed out on DTR one in NH. I have my name in at nearly every dealer on Long Island. I dealer close to me got in one and still has it. Also low mileage. But it is in terrible shape. It was not taken care of cosmetically. Lots of dings & dents, was parked under a tree, and the interior looks like shredded wheat!

[SilverSport]

Like I posted before, I bought mine for 11,500 with 36k miles in Denville NJ

So that's what happened to my CV Sport. Well, it would have been mine.
Did you buy it at a Honda dealer?
Someone here was kind enough to stop by to look at it, but it was sold. Oh well, I'll keep looking. I'm glad to see it is now a member here. They don't sit on the lots for too long. I also just missed out on DTR one in NH. I have my name in at nearly every dealer on Long Island. I dealer close to me got in one and still has it. Also low mileage. But it is in terrible shape. It was not taken care of cosmetically. Lots of dings & dents, was parked under a tree, and the interior looks like shredded wheat!

Sorry about that! You missed out on a nice one. It even has the trunk organizer in it. I'm extremely happy with my purchase and the people at Joyce Honda were very nice. I had been looking for at least 2 months, and passed on this one at first because it was over an hour from my house. I finally made the trip and bought it on the spot and picked it up 2 days later. The car is in very nice shape and have only had to cut the rotors and replace the tires since I bought it. Oh, and I also replaced the mufflers with some Magnaflows and upgraded the stock speakers. So, even though you didn't get it, it did find a good home.