Headers and Exhaust installed

[Zack]

Remember when you had your gears, chip, plugs and stat installed? Remember the grin on your face when you nailed it for the first time after that? Yeah, I do to and I had that same feeling all over again today. First off, I had the 3000 stall converter put in yesterday. The engine winds up much faster and hits the powerband instantly. In addition, the stock trans cooler is more than adequate. I spent 6 hours in the garage today installing headers and high flow cats from Dennis. I used simple hand tools, didnt need a lift or air compressor or other fancy tools. Let me cut to the chase.....
Dennis supplies an AWESOME kit. Every part fit perfectly with no need for 'at home ' modification. The instructions provided are superb. Dennis goes into detail with every step taking all guess work out of it. Fit and finish of the completed project looks very clean and professional. OK on to the results.... This car is FAST!
The car is louder (I have Flowmasters) and revs up instantly! While driving, the engine winds up so fast, (especially when downshifting) it just launches the car. I can break the tires loose from a 10mph roll. Flooring the car at 40mph (shifting into second) is DRAMATICALLY different. I used to dread catching a race from that speed- NOT ANYMORE!!! I have never installed an exhaust system on any car that provides results like this. Dennnis, thank you. To everyone else, YOU NEED HEADERS AND HIGH FLOW CATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Menace]

Sounds tempting !

[MI2QWK4U]

Sounds like something else to get after the blower...how much for the cats and headers from Dennis?

[martyo]

Zack: Check your PM's.

[studio460]

Yup. That did it. Zack's post convinced me to purchase/install Dennis' headers/high flow cats even BEFORE I get a chance to get a blower installed. Then I'll FINALLY get my Ravin 55s and preproduction tips installed! Still no chip, since all that will change with blower anyway. Staying with stock 3.55s as well, since I've grown used to the 70-100mph launch with the current gearing.

[mad man]

This i have to see were do you live in Illionis:D

[CRUZTAKER]

Originally posted by Zack
First off, I had the 3000 stall converter put in yesterday. The engine winds up much faster and hits the powerband instantly.

Zack:

How was the difference after the stall converter, but before the exhaust?

And, which brand did you use, stallion?

Thanks.

I want the exhaust really bad, but very pricey for me. The stall converter is also a big move, particulary because I won't be able to install that one......me drop the trans....I don't think so!

BTW: :up:

[Zack]

In response to some questions, the benefits from the converter alone are OK. Let me put it this way, for either of these mods to work properly, you need both installed. The exhaust complements the converter and vice versa. I had the stallion converter put in by my dealer. I saved some bucks because my guy did it as a side job after work.
As for me, I will not stop until I have all upgrades for this car. For those of you not interested in supercharging, I guarantee all will be satisfied 'stopping here' with upgrades. Until you feel the need for more which is inevitable. I plan on making the 7/13 meet at the chicken shack. I will be more than happy to give rides.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Well when I get posts like this it makes my day. I really have tried to improve our cars the best way I know how. I am not a multi millionaire company. I am just the opposite, its tough to do all that I do on most days, there truly are not enough hours in the day, almost every day, I do at times get stressed its more than evident if we talk on the phone but, when I see this it makes all the hard work worth it, My supercharger kit will be ready next week, I want to wait till mid July to release it after its tuned by my friend Jerry in Atlanta July 5th, I will take orders in the next week or so, I believe this will Kit will make safe impressive power, it looks like it was done at the Factory, it will be a turn key system. I will post more on this in the next 30 days, thanks for the support. And yes I am planning on being at Ennis

http://web.iwebcenters.com/reinhartautomotive/images/session/00-00-1056219394-MVC-001S copy.jpg

[JamesHecker]

Awesome! Your almost ready with the supercharger kit, Dennis?!

I think you will, once again, be the first!

Thanks!

[WolfeBros]

Great news Dennis.
You are and continue to be DA MAN. :bows:

Do you have plans to come to Ennis in September ??

[CRUZTAKER]

Ahhhh.....drooling....

[Zack]

To Dennis and everyone else: The picture of the guage cluster a few posts above looks awesome. I have made the same modification to my car with one exception. I used an angled trim ring on the guage furthest to the right. Sold by Autometer. Simple, Cheap (7 bucks for three of them) and a heck of a lot easier to see. Just a thought for all those who havent done this yet.

[chapel1]

Zack I hope to be at the chix meet,I'm very interested in seeing your Marauder.:coolman: :D

[robotek911]

Well, well, well...... I was saving a big chunk O'money for a new laptop and desktop. SCREW THE 'puter systems!!!! Put me on the list for a SC Dennis!!!!

[martyo]

Ok, let's suppose I wanted to do this mod (headers and exhaust) and I wanted to add the Flowmasters at the same time, what part number would I use for the Flowmasters?

[Zack]

I dont remember theexct part numbers and they are not an exact fit. My exhaust shop used flowmasters off the shelf and fit them into place. They also had to make custom hangers for the mufflers. All you do is this: determine if you have a centered or offset inlet and outlet. then measure the stock muffler and compare all of the specs to what flowmaster sells. Buy the muffler with the same inlet and outlet and the closest overall diameter. And make sure of course to buy the muffler with a pipe diameter that mill mate to the stock pipes. Or you can just drive it to the exhaust shop like i did and let them worry about it!!

[martyo]

So Zack, you did the Flowmasters at a shop and then you installed Dennis' header kit yourself?

[Zack]

Yes. I had the flowmasters put on when the car had 200 miles on it. I put the complete exhaust on at 5100 miles.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Zack
My exhaust shop used flowmasters off the shelf and fit them into place. They also had to make custom hangers for the mufflers. All you do is this: determine if you have a centered or offset inlet and outlet. then measure the stock muffler and compare all of the specs to what flowmaster sells. Buy the muffler with the same inlet and outlet and the closest overall diameter. And make sure of course to buy the muffler with a pipe diameter that will mate to the stock pipes. Or you can just drive it to the exhaust shop like i did and let them worry about it!!
Not flaming you here Zack, just expanding on your advice. I've been through this on MMs twice now, and for a guy who doesn't know jack about this stuff, I need all the help I can get. Now that I found that, I should share it, eh? I don't know if this 411 will help anyone in any way, but give it a try? It helped me.

www.goravin.com is the only website where I found visual aids to help me explain this. Once you get there, select "products," and scroll down to the section "Z 55." Let the graphics load and scroll down to the "Z 55" section. Look at item "RA554201," it should be the first graphic in line.

This is the muffler shape and size that fits our MMs perfectly. This should be helpful to anyone ordering mufflers from any source, because muffler monkeys all talk in these terms.

The RA554201 is a 16" case, 22" long with extensions. It's directional, red arrows in the pics indicate air flow. The mufflers are also clearly marked, so, don't sweat the monkey missing this. OTOH, he's your monkey, you decide.

When held in position, the front "inlet" is offset towards the center of the car, The rear "outlet" is centered in the muffler. These locations match our MMs perfectly. No bending, twisting, or cutting is necessary. Both inlet and outlets are 2" OD, and will be in exactly the right spot when you install.

2" OD matches our stock/OEM "H" pipe and that allows for perfect mating to the H pipe with u-clamps. DO NOT let the monkey weld here. U-clamps are correct because they allow the exhaust system to be disassembled and moved out of the way for other repairs when necessary.

The rear outlet is centered on the muffler and as a 2" OD, it will not match our 2 1/4" tailpipe. That's okay, this is the ONLY modification the monkey will have to make.

The monkey should be able to stretch the outlet pipe to 2 1/4" OD and make it fit snuggly inside the tailpipe. If the monkey cannot open this outlet to fit inside the 2 1/4" tailpipe, pack up and drive away...Now. I don't care what's hanging off the car, you're not in a real muffler shop.

Once the outlet pipe is stretched to fit inside inside the tailpipe, this joint should be welded and NOT u-clamped. If you u-clamp here, eventually, you may come to watch your Megs tips shoot off the car under power. While that may be an impressing show under some circ*mstances, planting that tip in the radiator of the lad following you...Well, let's just say that's an impression you don't want to make, eh?

Touch up the install with one hangar to each muffler, at the rear of the muffler and towards the outside of the car, and you're done. Start her up and enjoy. Whichever muffler you have selected, your only benefit will be the sound. Hope you enjoy your selection.

For the benefit of the engineers here, this 411 is has been offered "IMHO."

[SFMarauder]

SergntMac

What is your opinion on the Z-33's??

Thanks Nick

[darebren]

where do you install the spark plugs to do fuel dump flamin' tail pipe shots???

[Murader03]

As usual, the 411 for this car just keeps rolling and rolling from the finger tips of board memebrs. You just gotta love it......

Thanks to Sarge and all of the guys and gals who post info to this board. Thanks th Logan and LML for taking the time to not only bring this board to life, but in keeping it rolling along without all the BS that seems to proliferate on other boards.

My hat's off to all of you. That's why I'm here and enjoy being here.......

:banana2: :beer: :bows:

[Jeff]

Have I said that I love this place, today?

[Marauder57]

Would you guys say that the Marauder NEEDS exhaust improvements? What I mean is for performance...if say you DON'T do headers? I like the sound of the car as is....I like the throaty sound on some cars....but for me I don't need it.....I was under the impression that the MM exhaust was already pretty good unless you wanted improved sound....

I guess basically I did not think there was much if any HP to gained my just changing the exhaust on the MM alone....without headers..... :confused:

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by Marauder57
I guess basically I did not think there was much if any HP to gained my just changing the exhaust on the MM alone....without headers..... :confused:

57:

That was my impression, also...The only reason for changing the stock exhaust was for a change in sound, or if you were adding a blower.

[Menace]

I believe the Trilogy car still has the stock exhaust system.

[Dave Jackson]

I have yet to make any modifications but would like to do it right the first time. My mechanic has recommended Dynamax - has anyone had experience with this muffler. I read something about pre-production tips changing the sound. When referred to "tips" are we talking about the chrome extensions on the end of the tailpipe. I have looked inside these with a flashlight and cannot see a baffle or any flow restrictive devices. Since I'm not an exhaust expert I'm not sure where to start. I'm looking for a lower louder rumble - not necessarily an increase in performance. Is anyone EXTREMELY happy with their exhaust modification sound by changing only exhaust parts behind the cats? By the way my Maurauder's name is "Elvira".

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Dave Jackson
When referred to "tips" are we talking about the chrome extensions on the end of the tailpipe. I have looked inside these with a flashlight and cannot see a baffle or any flow restrictive devices.


The first thing to come to mind is that a baffle has to be some sort of restriction, but that's not the case. If you look inside your tips (with the engine off, otherwise you risk seeing all sorts of other interesting things as the exhaust gases get to you...), you'll see what looks like a restriction in diameter. This restricted diameter appears to span the first half of the length of the tip. My first impression is that the inner diameter is the same as the overall diameter of the pipe leading into the tip, so that's why I feel it's not restrictive, especially so far back from the engine.

It doesn't look like there are any holes in the walls of this restricted diameter area, so I doubt it is a 'baffle' in the sense that it quiets the exhaust note. Some have removed these stock tips and are in a better position to confirm or deny the solid nature of the inner diameter... if there are holes in the stock tips, then yes it does perform a baffling function.

If the inner wall is totally solid, then I think it's the larger diameter of the 'unbaffled' tips that creates a resonance. Supporting my argument is an experiment I performed back in the early 90s with my old '85 Parisienne: the simple inclusion of a bolt-on chromed exhaust tip (slightly larger diameter than the stock pipe, and extending about a foot past the outlet of the stock pipe) resulted in a more aggressive burble at idle.

I was considering removing the stock tips and slicing off the inside wall at both the inlet and at the 90 degree "face" you see when you look through the outlet side. This in the hopes that the entire inner diameter tube would simply fall out and I'd end up with the same "unbaffled" result of the prototype tips. However, I don't know if the inner wall has any other supporting points throughout its length. That's the engineer in me talking... the "more normal" side of me says to just go out and buy the damned "unbaffled" tips and be done with it!!!:D

[RCSignals]

Dave Jackson
Welcome, you've found the right place for the Marauder.

You'll love it here!

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by Dave Jackson
I have yet to make any modifications but would like to do it right the first time. My mechanic has recommended Dynamax - has anyone had experience with this muffler. I read something about pre-production tips changing the sound. When referred to "tips" are we talking about the chrome extensions on the end of the tailpipe. I have looked inside these with a flashlight and cannot see a baffle or any flow restrictive devices. Since I'm not an exhaust expert I'm not sure where to start. I'm looking for a lower louder rumble - not necessarily an increase in performance. Is anyone EXTREMELY happy with their exhaust modification sound by changing only exhaust parts behind the cats? By the way my Maurauder's name is "Elvira".


I have used them for years on Mark 8's I use the oval stainless steel and they sound great, have not done this on a Marauder

[jgc61sr2002]

Dave - Welcome to the best site on the net. Just ask and you shall receive. Enjoy your new ride.:up:

[martyo]

Dennis: I believe that you installed the headers on Keith's car. Did you change the mufflers or stay with the stock one's? If you swapped them, can you tell us what you used?

[Dennis Reinhart]

Yes Keith has every thing but Mufflers this is his call if he wants me to try them I will I like the sound of the headers and cats with X Pipe with the OEM mufflers

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by Dave Jackson
My mechanic has recommended Dynamax - has anyone had experience with this muffler. I read something about pre-production tips changing the sound. I have looked inside these with a flashlight and cannot see a baffle or any flow restrictive devices. I'm looking for a lower louder rumble - not necessarily an increase in performance. Is anyone EXTREMELY happy with their exhaust modification sound by changing only exhaust parts behind the cats?

Dave... Visit www.goravin.com they have a sound file of a Mustang with their muffler in place. This is exactly what my MM sounds like with the Z-55 muffler and open tips. The RA554201 is the correct fit for the MM, about 80 bucks each. BTW, the difference between Z-33, Z-55 and Z-77, is just size.

You won't find any baffles inside the factory tips, because the tips are resonators. As Steve Babcock explained it, the original tips passed all the sound threshold for loudness, but at 1400 RPM they produced a serious howl in the passenger cabin. The only cure was to reduce the OD of the tip. Changing tips was out of the question, so, the 2 1/4 exhaust pipe was extended deep into the tips and welded into place. In a way, the tips are "falsies."

The open tip will produce more noise. In my book, it's pleasing, but not enough. I suggest changing the tips first before changing mufflers. If you can't find fresh open tips anywhere, a good exhaust monkey should be able to cut the tips just right and pull the smaller pipe out (my guy says it's a piece of cake). Weld on a new collar and put them back in place.

Muffer choice is up to you, it's only going to produce sound, not performance, so shop by sound and get what you want.

[TripleTransAm]

Thanks for confirming the exhaust tip modification, Sarge. Now that you've confirmed it, since I'd have to slice off the tips anyway, I might as well save myself the cost of new tips and try to mod the original ones. I was initially worried that there would be some sort of extra supports between the two ends of the inner pipe section, and I'd end up with an inside tube that was loose on both ends but fixed in the middle... can we say "RATTLE"? :(

I've got vacation coming up... I'll contact my favorite exhaust primate and have him take a shot at it. He did a great job on my WS6 so I'm confident.

[RCSignals]

Basically what they did when they extended the exhaust pipe about halfway into the tip was just reduce the "length" of 3" dia area. They aren't really "falsies" in that the still function as 3" tips, just effectively shorter length, so slightly less "megaphone" effect.
They also strengthened the tip installation when they extended the exhaust pipe into them.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RCSignals
They also strengthened the tip installation when they extended the exhaust pipe into them.

Cool. Now I can say I have "reinforced heavy-duty exhaust tips" as well! :D

[martyo]

Originally posted by Dennis Reinhart
Yes Keith has every thing but Mufflers this is his call if he wants me to try them I will I like the sound of the headers and cats with X Pipe with the OEM mufflers

Thanks, Dennis. This is what I was thinking of doing. From what you are saying about Keith's car, I can always swap in the mufflers later on. Correct?