Ring & Pinion change, and no difference

[BillyGman]

I've searched 4 pages of this board and have read every post of all of the 4.10 gear threads, and have not found any possible answers to the following question:
I've just finished installing 4.10 gears in my Marauder, and after putting 200 miles on the car since doing the work, I decided to test it out today, and found that the car is NOT quicker off the line at all!!! Furthermore, I have one of those GPS devices that plug into your lighter and record your ET and trap speed through a quarter mile blast, and My ET's and trap speeds were the same w/the 4.10's as they were w/the stock 3.55 gears!!! What's going on here??? Can anyone help? I'd really appreciate it. This was a lot of money and a lot of work for me to do to my car to have receieved absolutely NO results. I'm not very happy about this to say the least. But I'm also completely baffled. Going from 3.55 to 4.10 is a significant ratio change. I've also bought a Jet brand performance "Module", but have yet to install it. Have I made a $300 mistake by buying that too????

[RCSignals]

I don't know who does Jets programing, but you can't go wrong with the programing used by Dennis Reinhart.

[BillyGman]

and I'll definately keep that in mind, but the guy you've mentioned can't be the only one who offers a good chip for the Marauder. Right? I mean, I don't intend to be making waves here since I'm a new member, but my first resort would be to use what I've got since I've already shelled out the $300. I'm also hoping to find an answer as to why there is no performance change at all after I've installed the 4.10 gears. As far as I can see, different gears should make some difference, chip, or no chip. Or am I missing something here? Another thing I'm curious about> is there a differnce between a "chip" and a "Module"??? Because what I have is a Module.

[RF Overlord]

Billy:

First question first: I haven't done the 4.10s yet, but EVERYONE who has so far has been highly impressed by the difference...this might sound like a stupid question, but are you SURE whoever did the work put the right gears in?

Second question: the word "chip" IS slightly misleading...it does in fact mean a small module, with a few IC chips and other components on it...I know nothing about the JET chip; since you already have it in hand, give it a try...I don't believe anyone else here has any first-hand experience with them, either...the most popular is the one from Dennis (www.reinhartautomotive.com) as he specialises in HP Fords only, and has access to the original Marauder programming...FordChip (www.fordchip.com) is another good one...

[martyo]

^^^ Exactly what our resident massive intellect said^^^

Something ain't right! I don't know where you are, but if you are near NY, come for a ride in my car and you'll see what he 4.10's plus Reinhart Chip mean in the real world.

[rurumon]

Originally posted by BillyGman
I've searched 4 pages of this board and have read every post of all of the 4.10 gear threads, and have not found any possible answers to the following question:
I've just finished installing 4.10 gears in my Marauder, and after putting 200 miles on the car since doing the work, I decided to test it out today, and found that the car is NOT quicker off the line at all!!! Furthermore, I have one of those GPS devices that plug into your lighter and record your ET and trap speed through a quarter mile blast, and My ET's and trap speeds were the same w/the 4.10's as they were w/the stock 3.55 gears!!! What's going on here??? Can anyone help? I'd really appreciate it. This was a lot of money and a lot of work for me to do to my car to have receieved absolutely NO results. I'm not very happy about this to say the least. But I'm also completely baffled. Going from 3.55 to 4.10 is a significant ratio change. I've also bought a Jet brand performance "Module", but have yet to install it. Have I made a $300 mistake by buying that too????

Just curious, what ET and trap speeds did you get from the GPS device?

[joflewbyu2]

a couple of questions. 1st, are you sure by checking the rpms at 60 mph that you actually did get a 4.10 rear ratio? the rpms should be approxitmately 15-20% higher. what were/are your 0-60, 1/8, & 1/4 times and speed with each?

[MM03]

If you installed 4.10s and did not put the module in, your speedo will be reading faster than you are actually going. This might give you an idea if a gear ratio change was done.

[tetsu]

Sounds like this fellow did not get a gear change.

Johnny

[BillyGman]

thankyou for your responses. First let me say that I happen to live in CT. So martyo, if you were serious about me getting a ride in your car, then I just might be willing to drive a little bit of a distance to take that ride, and to learn a bit more about my Marauder by discussing w/you about what you've done to yours.
Secondly, I've installed the ring & Pinion gear set myself, and before doing so, I counted the number of teeth on the new gears as well as on the gears that were removed and did the math too. So I know for a fact that the gear change has indeed taken place. And like MM03 has said, the speedo is going to be reading faster MPH than I'm actually moving at now, so I therefore I cannot look at the RPM to determine what R's I'm turning at for any given speed. But I can tell that the speedo is off. So I'd like to hear from anybody that has an answer for me, or someone here who has changed the gear ratio to 4.10's before they ever installed a chip or have done any other modifications.Because my car is exactly the same now (perfomance wise) than it was w/the 3.55 gears!!! I'm wondering if the computer system has to have the sttings modified by a chip in order to allow the car to accelerate any faster so that it can take advantage of the 4.10 gears I've installed. Freakin new hi-tech cars. my 73 Vette is so simple to work on, and when I've performed my own modifications, things were noticibly different when I got behind the wheel. But ofcourse that's another story for another board.:D And BTW, my ET's and trap speed was 15.22 @ 96 MPH. (my 73 Vette is 13.48 @ 110mph w/3.73:1 gears and a 350 motor). Any answers to my dilemma will be appreciated. Thanks again guys........

[MAD-3R]

I have no idea... You should be getting a good kick at launch now... The computer shouldn't be retarding the acceleration...

Just as a WAG, does your have Traction control, and if so are you turning it off?

[BillyGman]

No traction control on my car. I'm very surprised that nobody can solve this mystery. I gotta tell ya, it's very aggrivating for me to have done all that work to the car, and NOT get any benefit whatsoever from it. I hope that there's someone else here who hasn't responded yet who will do so. I don't know where else I can turn to for an answer on this. Obvoiusly I cannot go to the dealer since I don't want them to know that I've performed a gear change.
let me bring up this point: The car magazine write-up for the Marauder(I think it was Car & Driver mag) stated it's top speed as being only 117MPH. I know these cars are heavy, but C,mon, with 3.55 gears in the rear 18" wheels, and 302HP I'm sure these cars are capable of a much better top end speed than 117. So that must be because of some computer regulation. Don't you think? And if that is the case, then that same regulatory effect by the engine's computer must also be regulating my performance w/the new gears now. What do you guys think???

[MAD-3R]

The 117 was set by the computer for some reason. It is belived to be because of Driveshaft issues, but that is a guess.

[Hemlock]

SPEEDO READING FOR MY MM NEW WAS 124MPH . MAX. DID DENNIS CHIP LAST, SURE UPPED THE PERFORMANCE . GOOD LUCK , I DONT THINK ITS THE 4.10s

[merc]

I was in Richmond last weekend and ran a mile at 127mph on the stock drive shaft, very smooth. As far as the 4:10 gears are concerned, I have a diablo chip and performance upgrades downloaded from www.diablosport.com. The upgrades included 4:10 gear settings, shift points, Speedo, removed top speed limiter, and a host of many positive things. I now reach 6500 + RPM’s at maximum thrust, leaving a patch of rubber shifting from 1st to 2nd, chirps from 2nd to 3rd can be heard depending on the pavement.

Now I am wondering about my stock differential. After a few more upgrades I will be pushing more torque through those spider gears.

:pimp:

[jgc61sr2002]

BillyGman - Why don't you give Dennis Reinhardt a call, I think he could solve your problem.

[martyo]

BillyG: Call me: 914.582.6262. I am in meetings until about 7:00 p.m. EST

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by BillyGman
I'm wondering if the computer system has to have the sttings modified by a chip in order to allow the car to accelerate any faster so that it can take advantage of the 4.10 gears I've installed.

I cannot believe that your ECM would have anything to do with this...a couple of members had the 4.10s installed, then sent their chips back to Dennis for speedo correction, and didn't notice THAT big a difference without the chip...call Dennis or send an e-mail to FordChip...and definitely let us all know what you find...

[CRUZTAKER]

OK, this is gonna sound 'kindergardenish'....but, one thing should be apparent. I say apparent, cause I don't know whose gears you installed, BUT, if they are Ford Motor Sport gears, a big old "4:10" will be inscribed on the gear. Of course you'll have to drain the gear box, wrench a handfull of bolts, and pry the cover off, but this will tell you for sure.

All the guys are right, there is a considerable difference, not just in launches, but the RPM 's are VERY apparent with and in an increase of about 15%. A chip or module won't (can't) hide THAT.

[WolfeBros]

Bottom line is that you would have a difference with the gear change. Having us explain why your not is kinda like the tail wagging the dog. Everyone that has made this change knew and felt it immediately. I am not sure what your problem is.
:confused:

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by BillyGman
I've searched 4 pages of this board and have read every post of all of the 4.10 gear threads, and have not found any possible answers to the following question:
I've just finished installing 4.10 gears in my Marauder, and after putting 200 miles on the car since doing the work, I decided to test it out today, and found that the car is NOT quicker off the line at all!!! Furthermore, I have one of those GPS devices that plug into your lighter and record your ET and trap speed through a quarter mile blast, and My ET's and trap speeds were the same w/the 4.10's as they were w/the stock 3.55 gears!!! What's going on here??? Can anyone help? I'd really appreciate it. This was a lot of money and a lot of work for me to do to my car to have receieved absolutely NO results. I'm not very happy about this to say the least. But I'm also completely baffled. Going from 3.55 to 4.10 is a significant ratio change. I've also bought a Jet brand performance "Module", but have yet to install it. Have I made a $300 mistake by buying that too????

Well Bill yoy are absolutley wrong 4:10 gears with the corect tuning is the best thing that has ever happend, to the Marauder, you chip is wrong is all I can say, almost 90% of the members have done this conversion, most have used my programing, a lot have dyno numbers showing over a 30 RWHP gain the car is transformed totaly, I will send you a chip for free, to try and you will be toatly amazed at the cars transformatin, or just send it back, if you like you can buy it, as all the members here have done go with a better set of plugs and cooler thermostat.

[TAF]

Originally posted by Dennis Reinhart
I will send you a chip for free, to try and you will be toatly amazed at the cars transformatin, or just send it back, if you like you can buy it,


^^^THAT'S why he is the BEST and gets MY $s. Well done, as usual Dennis!

[joflewbyu2]

dennis, he did NOT install the chip yet!, he is stating that doing just 4.10 gears did not change his 1/4 mile time nor speed! 4.10s might be quicker to 60 mph but are too short for the 1/4 compared to the stock 3.55s.

[Dennis Reinhart]

well the car is loosing power, because no chip is installed, the speedo is off, and he is hiting the rev limiter befor up shift. I have explainned this before. This is not a wise move with out having some ones chip in your car, reguardless if you never buy mine don't waiste your money on Jet. Call me any time I will help if I can.


Dennis

[joflewbyu2]

dennis, do you recommend the rear differential support girdle (cover) for extra protection from axle shift and axle cap flex? also, is the oem stock ecm programming that conservative in timing being retarded for acceptable use of 87 octane. not wanting to change my spark plugs nor thermastat, is your chip still making power gains alon

[WolfeBros]

Originally posted by joflewbyu2@aol.
also, is the oem stock ecm programming that conservative in timing being retarded for acceptable use of 87 octane. not wanting to change my spark plugs nor thermastat, is your chip still making power gains alon

I can answer this because I have seen Dennis answer this. The stock programming is that conservative. Dennis's chip makes its power with the 93 octane and higher spark timing tables.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by joflewbyu2@aol.
dennis, do you recommend the rear differential support girdle (cover) for extra protection from axle shift and axle cap flex? also, is the oem stock ecm programming that conservative in timing being retarded for acceptable use of 87 octane. not wanting to change my spark plugs nor thermastat, is your chip still making power gains alon

The Marauder has Knock sensors if you run low octane gas the computer will pull timing, but at WOT it may be to late. I would not risk 87 octane, if you start spark knocking and or detonating, you will bust a piston or break rings.

The cars engine was NEVER designed to run 87 octane, Sure I can do a chip for 87 octane but the car will never make the power it should. I have the rear stud kit and the covers in stock, and they are a good Idea. If you are going to really hammer the car and race it.

For those who are not, the Ford Motorsport gear is enough, the gears are only as good as who installs them.

[BUCKWHEAT]

BillyGman, I put in FMS 4.10's but no chip. I used an Abbot Enterprises electronic ratio adapter that interdicts the variable speed sensor. Speedo reads right once you dial in the adaptor. Results are good seat of the pants feel from the 4.10's including chirping the tires on the 1-2 shift. Bad news is I hit the rev limiter on 2-3 shift and it's a sloppy shift. My car did 15.068@94.10 at Ennis on the 3.55's. with 9.8 for the 1/8th. I ran the 4.10's at Thunder Valley but couldn't get any time with the bad 2-3 shift. I need a chip, which I think means getting rid of the ratio adaptor.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by WolfeBros
I can answer this because I have seen Dennis answer this. The stock programming is that conservative. Dennis's chip makes its power with the 93 octane and higher spark timing tables.


Exactly the chip is only as good as the gasoline you are putting in the car, low octane low performance again fellas the gas guage does say premium. it is a DOHC modular motor designed to run on higher octane, so you cant have your cake and eat it to. As far as performance goes. Now again I can firm shifts up, remove speed limiting, corect the speedo and pull timing if you want but again when the car does not scream and your ET'S are low, its not my fault its your decision to tell me or any one else what you want to do with your car.

[BillyGman]

That's a great offer that you've made to me by allowing me to try out the chip that you offer first. Obviously you're confident about your product, and you also must sense that I'm as serious about performance as I'm sure that most of the other guys on this board are since I've already put the time and the effort to install the 4.10 gears. I'm gonna take you up on that offer. I'm sending you a PM. Thanx very much. Martyo, I'll give ya a call.......
And to everyone else, let me also say thankyou for your responses. I appreciate all of you trying to help me figure this whole thing out. But at the same time let me also address a couple obvious misconceptions here that I've noticed in one or two of the previous posts. I installed the gears myself, used a depth MIC, and dial indicator to measure the Pinion depth to make sure it was correct, and to make sure the backlash was right on the money. And BTW, they're Ford MS gears that I installed. I also checked the tooth pattern w/marking compound. I did my homework on this as far as the installation process of the gears goes. And it was done absolutely correct. Furthermore, not only did I look and verify that the ring and Pinion both said "410" on them, but I also counted the teeth on each one and did the math to verify that the gear set wasn't marked wrong either. So the point is that i covered all the bases as far as the installation goes. I DO presently have 4.10 FMS gears in my car, and I've put 250 miles on it, and there is no whining or clunking noises whatsoever. However, there has absolutely been NO performance improvement at all. Those are the facts Boys. And that's all I can tell you. Again, thankyou all for the help. This seems like a really great board, and I'm glad that I found it. Peace......

[Jeff]

I love this place! :bounce:

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by BillyGman
let me bring up this point: The car magazine write-up for the Marauder(I think it was Car & Driver mag) stated it's top speed as being only 117MPH. I know these cars are heavy, but C,mon, with 3.55 gears in the rear 18" wheels, and 302HP I'm sure these cars are capable of a much better top end speed than 117. So that must be because of some computer regulation. Don't you think?

Exactly, the speed is limited in the programming.

I wouldn't believe too much of what Car and Driver wrote in their Marauder review.
The track times published by MM&FF are closer to what people here have experienced.
C+D published times are more in line with the SOHC Police Interceptor

[martyo]

By the way Billy, where in CT?

[MAD-3R]

Billy,
I want to apologize if it sounded like I was dougting you abilitys. I have very little automotive skills, but am an expert troubleshooter (trained in electronics) and the first thing you do after assertaining the problem, is ask, "Is it plugged in? Is it turned on?" Stupid questions, but it normaly solves a surprisingly large number of problems.

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
I want to apologize if it sounded like I was doubting your abilitys. I have very little automotive skills, but am an expert troubleshooter (trained in electronics) and the first thing you do after assertaining the problem, is ask, "Is it plugged in? Is it turned on?" Stupid questions, but it normaly solves a surprisingly large number of problems.

This about says it all, Billy, I don't think anyone here meant to slap you around any. Any forensic search for cause requires that one start at the beginning and rule out possibilities. No one meant to flame you while following that process. Some of the brightest automotive brains out here checked in on your complaint, hang in here, a solution will surface.

The problem you pose to us is quite challenging, your single complaint, lack of improvement from 4:10s, defies the experience of all here who have installed 4:10s. You've got us all wondering WTF? You didn't share all your steps taken in your first post, so it's normal for the questions to surface as we catch up on your manner and motive, K?

I don't know that much about the GPS readings you present, that technology baffels me. But, if you believe that your 15.2x 1/4 mile time is accurate and valid, then you have achieved the expected improvement from 4:10s. A bunch of us recently went to the strip and ran a bunch of bone stock times, 15.6x seemed to be the average on that day. 15.2x is a decent time for this car with only 4:10s.

I'm going to suggest that your SOTP expectations are a bit high, 4:10s would not necessarilly cause more G force in the seat. Could be that you're expecting too much of a change, or, because of your other automotive experience, the change you expect is not well founded in this situation. It's a big, heavy car, with poor performance in the lower end, which is our rationale for mods to begin with. You added only one mod, now add another, see what develops.

Add Reinhart's chip, state and plugs and I know exactly what you'll get. I know not because I've done that, but because I went through several scientific tests to prove the performance gain. A full Stage 1 kit is gears, chip, stat and Denso plugs, and that will provide you with 25 HP and 30 ftlb of torque, and should get you down into the 14s no sweat. You won't be disappointed.

Hang in there Billy, hook up with Marty or someone who has gone futher into mods than you have, the bang for the buck is waiting for you...IMHO.

[BillyGman]

I must admit that I was getting a bit defensive. My bad. I wasn't really ticked off at anybody though. And I know that nobody flamed me. I'm a Moderator of another board and so I know how things can go on boards like these from time to time. People have different writing styles, and sometimes it's more difficult to communicate in writing than it is face to face since people who are reading your replies don't get to see the expression on your face, tone of voice, or mannerisms as you speak. So I understand. It's no biggie. Like I said, this seems like a great board, w/some great members too. So I'm glad I've found it.;)
SergnM, you have some very thought provoking points there about my expectations, so let's try to sift this out. Perhaps my expectations were high, because I've had my 73 Vette for 6 years now, and that's putting out 310 HP at the rear wheels(according to the dyno) and naturally, it's also a lighter car w/an engine that has more cubes than our Marauders do(it's a 350, w/mods) and it has 3.73 gears. But as far as the ET's I've obtained using my GPS device, I guess you can't compare 2 10ths of an ET increase on the street over the ET on the drag strip even if the GPS device is accurate because it's difficult to find a road that is perfectly flat w/out any bumps, and level like the track is. So that might explain my 15.2 ET. But the main thing is for comparisent sake, I ran that ET on the same stretch of road that i ran the ET on BEFORE I did the gear installation, and like I said, it was the same time and trap speed. Maybe the 0-60 time is better now. I dunno. Cuz even though this device I have will measure that too, I didn't pay attention to that before the gear work.
But since we've talked about my expectations, then let me explain to everyone exactly what my expectations were and really what they still are, and if anyone thinks they're too high, then please tell me that.
I expected to get atleast some noticeable difference in acceleration off the line. And for specificity, I'll give you an example. I expected to be able to light up the tires from a dead punch on dry pavement. And my car still doesn't even break the tires loose at all. I also expected to shave atleast 3 tenths of a second off my ET's w/just the gear change. Now going from 3.55's to 4.10's I didn't think that's unrealistic expectations at all. otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to spend several hours installing these gears, and spending a couple hundred bucks on then as well. What would be the point? And let me also add to explain my mindset on this, that before I bought my Marauder, I test drove a 2000 Mercury Marquis that had the performance package from the factory which includes 3.27 gears, and 239 HP and that thing smoked the tires from a dead punch!!! Don't get me wrong, that's not something I'd be doing every day w/my car, and that certainly isn't the only test of performance in my book. Furthermore I'm sure that this Marquis that i drove wouldn't keep up w/my MM in the quarter Mile, but if having 239HP and 3.27 gears can light up the tires from a dead punch, then why can't my "302HP" car w/4.10's do that? Something is very wrong here. That's why so far I've concluded that it must be the Computer. I don't know what else to think guys.:confused: Maybe I should'bve put 4.56 gears in it instead........

[WolfeBros]

Billy have you talked to Dennis Reinhart yet ?

[MAD-3R]

Billy,
I feel you should have seen the decrease in the times, by at lease a couple of tenth.
I do have a couple of questions.

How many miles are on your car?
Was OD off?

As for smoking the tires, even with the full stage one Mod list, I could break them loose, but not "Light them up." The tires on these cars are good, wide, and tall, and takes alot to break traction. Great at the strip, not so good trying to impress the ricers.

The reason for the miles question, is these cars do get faster whis a few thousand miles on them. 3-5 k is the consensous as to when it comes into it own.

[BillyGman]

no but I sent him a PM. I plan on calling him today or tomorrow. He sounds like a cool guy.

MAD-3R, I have 2000 miles on my car. In light of what you're saying about the full stage one thing, I'm sorry that I didn't choose the 4.56 gears now. Thanx for your reply. Oh, and BTW, I tried w/the OD on(which is how I ran it before the gear installation), and also both on and of after the installation, but it only made a difference in the trap speed by 2MPH.

[MAD-3R]

Oh, don't get me wrong, with the stage one mods, I had dyno runs made, and came back with
262 RWHP
284 RWTQ

and a 2-3 shift that would snap your neck.

Are you planning on this being a city, drag car?

[BillyGman]

that's the reason why I didn't opt for the 4.56's in the first place. I want this to be a highway car as well. But I am into "G" force and 0-60 acceleration. But I don't want it to get so extreme that my ET would suffer. I don't plan on taking to the drags, cuz it's also my daily driver. But I've noticed only a 350 RPM change at 70MPH going from the 3.55's to the 4.10's. And because my speedo is off, i was only able to determone that by having a buddy of mine travel at exactly 70MPH w/his car on the highway lastnight, and I kept exact pace w/him and watched my tack and speedo. My speedo says 80MPH when I'm actually going 70MPH. I anticipated a greater RPM increase than just 350RPM's at &)MPH. So maybe I should've went w/the 4.56's. Knowing me I probably will not be satisfied now until I do the work all over again and install the 4.56's. I wish that I found this board before I did this.

[looking97233]

Hi Billy, First off Your gear troubles have me stumped. But I wanted to say, the last time I heard anybody talk about JET was about three years ago. They were involved in a class action lawsuit for providing programing that blew up peoples cars. They lost the lawsuit. I thought they were out of business. If it was me, I would return the the Jet thing. If I couldn't return it, I would throw it away. $300 lost is better than the cost of a new motor. go see Dennis.

[MAD-3R]

Before you switch over to the 4.56, give it a test with Dennis's chip. IF your still not satified, then 4.56 may be your only option.

Again, I have no idea why your not feeling the kick from the 4.10 in the butt-o-meter.

As for Jet chips, I don't know them from adam, but I recommend Dennis's stuff with no resevations.

[BillyGman]

I'll take your advice guys. Thanks again for the info. This is good stuff I'm getting from you guys....... I guess what I'll do is get the chip from Dennis, and see how it goes then. If I'm not satisfied, then from what I'm reading on this board it sounds like i could send the chip back to dennis to have him "flash" it for the 4.56's if that's what I decide to do. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that though.......

[MAD-3R]

Sounds about right.

BTW are you planning on Supercharging it, or staying NA?

[cyclone03]

You all knew I would jump in here some time.........

OK 1/4 mile test w/gps.
How was the weather during the before and after test?
Just a 4 deg.f difference in air temp was good for 2/10 in the 1/4 mile in my car.(No gears or chip)
How about the engine temp?
I went from a 15.6 to a 15.36 (88 deg.f air temp)by letting the car sit for 2 hours and cool off.

With the gps off just driving around did you feel any diference just driving normaly?You know lite throttle,not WFO?
You should feel the gear helping out on starts for sure.
The Wide open throttle shifts I'm sure are nailing the rev limiter hard,this will kill the et.
First thing I thought when I read your post today was you got ripped off by some shop,but sense you did the work I'm now sure you have 4.10's but just for fun I would jack up the rear and count drive shaft to tire revalutions,4 to 1.

I'll bet it's the weather that is holding back the et.That said the Butt-O-Meter should tell the story.

[martyo]

I forgot, but I think I left my telephone number around here somewhere.....

[Billatpro]

I hav'ent done a damn thing to my yet, it has'ent made a damn bit of difference! but it just keeps getting faster anyway!!!!

[jgc61sr2002]

BUCKWHEAT - Welcome to the MM site. You came to the right place. The best sight on the web.:D

[BillyGman]

what is "Buckwheat"???? Must be an inside joke I guess.......but anyway, I don't have to count the driveshaft rotations per each wheel revolution because I already know that it will be turning 4.1 times since there are 41 teeth on the ring gear I've installed, and 10 teeth on the Pinion gear. Like i said before, I've counted them myself before installing them. So 41 divided by 10=4.1
I really don't know about outside temperature during the before ET's and after ET's. But I do know that this car is taking off the line exactly the same as before. It's gotta be a governing action by the computer. What else can it be??? If the top speed of these cars when bone stock is 117MPH, then if that isn't a governing action of the computer than I don't know what is. And also the engine was at full operating temperature for both the before and after quartermile blasts(I mean before and after the gear installation). I've got a question though......I've read guys statemnts on here claiming that they pulled out their computer chips to send back to Dennis to re-program them, and still have experienced better acceleration from just the 4.10 gearing. But doesn't the EEC settings change for good once that chip has been installed? Because if that's the case, then that can't be compared to someone's car that never had the chip in the first place. And I don't plan on supercharging this car. But then again I might have said that about a gear change if you had asked me a month ago:D

[Jeff]

I got 125 mph out of mine before the governor took over.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by BillyGman
But doesn't the EEC settings change for good once that chip has been installed? Because if that's the case, then that can't be compared to someone's car that never had the chip in the first place.

The short answer is no...The ECM senses the presence of the chip and is told to use the chip's spark and fuel tables instead of its own. Once the chip is unplugged, the ECM reverts to its native (stock) programming.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
The short answer is no...The ECM senses the presence of the chip and is told to use the chip's spark and fuel tables instead of its own. Once the chip is unplugged, the ECM reverts to its native (stock) programming.


So, if going with an aftermarket chip is a Bad Thing (tm) in the eyes of Ford Warranty, why is the damned socket there to begin with? Sure, I can see the need for quick on-the-fly changes during development, but on a production PCM? Sounds to me like they WANTED the aftermarket to pick up the ball and offer some customization possibilities. There hasn't been a chip'able PCM on a G.M. performance car in close to a decade, which means you REALLY have to want to tamper with the s/w to do so (requires a laptop, cable, special s/w, and some know-how). And yet here we have a mechanism where all that is missing is a bright flourescent neon label with a big arrow saying INSERT MODIFIED TABLES HERE.

[MAD-3R]

I wondered the samething about 6 months ago, and the only thing I could come up with, is they use the same PCM cover for the Ford sponsored race cars that need to access the board, and to save some money, they just bulk order covers.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
So, if going with an aftermarket chip is a Bad Thing (tm) in the eyes of Ford Warranty, why is the damned socket there to begin with?

I believe the socket is there for testing and programming during the manufacturing process...

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
I believe the socket is there for testing and programming during the manufacturing process...


Fair enough... I can understand the socket/port being used to verify the PCM's innards, but why leave behind a function (unlocked) allowing overriding of the internal tables? ;) Ford has shown it has the functionality to simple download new software without requiring it's own chip... so why even include that ability? I smell a conspiracy... :coolman:

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
I smell a conspiracy... :coolman:

OK, Oliver Stone...

:lol:

[Dennis Reinhart]

WELL FELLAS THATS WHY ALL NEW FORDS HAVE NO SERVICE PORT AFTER 2005.

Sorry caps were locked but it makes no difference I can just as easily flash the EEC

[merc]

For anyone wanting to find information about the Jet chip

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=131026&prmenbr=361

[BillyGman]

that I already have, although I never installed it. But they don't call it a "Chip" they call it a "Module" and that's what kind of confuses me. But I've just ordered Dennis's chip because that one will correct the shift points and the speedo error that the gear change caused. That "module" from Jet Performance will not. I know that because before I told Dennis that I want a chip from him, I talked to someone from Jet, and that's what they told me. The bad thing for me is that they will not refund my $$ because the seal on the package was broken since i just had to open it to take a look.:rolleyes: So I blew that $$ for something I never even used.

[WolfeBros]

Don't worry Billy. You will get your moneys worth and more with Mr. Reinhart. :D

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by WolfeBros
Don't worry Billy. You will get your moneys worth and more with Mr. Reinhart. :D


Sounds like the slogan to a discount chain store! "you get your money's worth and more at ReinMart!" :D (please don't hurt me, Dennis)

Gman, put the other chip up for sale on eBay or any other online market. You may be able to recuperate some of your investment in it. I have no idea how it compares to Dennis' product but I'm sure someone out there would be willing to pick it up, especially if it was cheaper than at brand-new prices and they didn't particularly need the speedo-adjusting function.

Personally, if I decide to go with this chip mod one day, I'll be dealing with Dennis. The way he offered to help BillyGman out, that definitely counts for something in my book.:up:

[MAD-3R]

E-bay man, E-bay.

[BillyGman]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm


Personally, if I decide to go with this chip mod one day, I'll be dealing with Dennis. The way he offered to help BillyGman out, that definitely counts for something in my book.:up:

Well not so fast......I called Dennis yesterday, to take him up on that free test drive offer that he made to me in this thread, and he told me to e-mail him my EEC code off my car.
And I did that early this morning, and he sent me a reply indicating that he didn't understand my request for the chip. So perhaps there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. I hope that's what it is anyway. I'm assuming it was because when I called him on the phone, and told him my username and that I'm a member of this board, it didn't sound like he really knew who I was or what I was talking about concerning this offer that he made. But i want to give the man the benefit of the doubt, and I think that we all should, so let me wait and see if he gets back to me on this and what he says about it. I tried to call him three times but just kept getting bust signals, no answers, and fax machine noises, and that was the same phone number I got him on yesterday w/no problem. :confused:

[BillyGman]

let me set the record straight here, cuz I always want to give credit where it's due. Dennis just called me and explained that the reason for the confusion was that he offered to send me the chip for free and NOT the plugs and thermostat also. And when I requested all three for free in my e-mail that's what threw him off. So that's understandable, because like he said to me "I can't go and sell the thermostat and the plugs to someone else once you've installed them in your car and sent them back to me if you don't like the power gains that the whole package gives you". And that's a good point. The reason I requested all three from him in my e-mail was because he didn't mention the need for the plugs and thermostat in this thread when he made that offer to me, so I didn't know that I needed them also. But when I telephoned him yesterday to take him up on this offer, he said "well you just can't put the chip in w/out the plugs and the stat". So that's what threw me off. So that's why I requested all three(chip, plugs, and stat). But like I said he just called me and we spoke on the phone w/no debates needed and I agreed to buy the plugs and stat from him too. So it sounds like it's all good. I was surprised at first to hear the price of the plugs, but again to give the man his due credit, I priced those very same plugs in a speed shop near me and they told me about the same price also. I guess that I just wasn't expecting that, but everyone here knows what we all do for speed. i remember when working on my 73 Vette to make it faster trying spark plugs that were also pretty expensive. What are ya gonna do? The "Need for Speed".......

[martyo]

Billy: It will be all good. Trust me, my friend. We'll be at a car meet in no time and you'll cut your drive time down some as a result of the mods! ;)

[BillyGman]

yeah so I'll get there a lot faster:D (provided I don't get pulled over by the coppers)....(but if it's in CT, I'm golden, cuz my Brother is a COP;) ).....