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View Full Version : how to get 13sec 1/4mile?



Advancedautosec
04-14-2007, 03:48 PM
What do i need to do to get to 13sec 1/4mile, with out supercharger or nitrous. And is it possible. so far i got the k&n CAI, Predator programmer, doing 3.73gears and exhaust this week. any info is appreciated.

Cobra25
04-14-2007, 03:56 PM
GET A 12 SECOND CAR TO PUSH YOU ! :cool5: I'm sorry I had to say that! :wflag:

sailsmen
04-14-2007, 04:10 PM
W/ in the past month the same ques was asked and a good thread followed. Do a search.

OneBADLsE
04-14-2007, 04:36 PM
Ask Blackend300A (Paul). He is in the pursuit of a NA 13 sec 1/4 mile. He has alot of useful info on this topic

ctrlraven
04-14-2007, 04:40 PM
I just have a JLT intake, Reinhart tune, GM COP, 2nd set of cats removed, flowmaster 40 series mufflers, res-delete tips and 255/55-18 bfg kdw2 tires and got a 14.25. I really didn't do much tuning on my SCT Xcal2 beside bumping up the shift line pressure. Next mod will be some drag radials and see how close I can get 13 secs. The rest of my car is stock and I guess next mod will be a 3000 stall PI torque coverter or LT headers with 2.5" exhaust piping to put me into the 13's.

sicilianmarquis
04-14-2007, 04:56 PM
look into TEA heads, they specialize in the 4.6l heads, they have a combo for n\a 400hp engine

KillJoy
04-14-2007, 05:10 PM
look into TEA heads, they specialize in the 4.6l heads, they have a combo for n\a 400hp engine


Since you posted that up....I am assuming you have looked into this...

What kind of pricing is involved in the 400HP engine?

Is it cost effective, compaired to boost?

KillJoy

BAD MERC
04-14-2007, 07:00 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! Or have Tom pull you.
GET A 12 SECOND CAR TO PUSH YOU ! :cool5: I'm sorry I had to say that! :wflag:

sicilianmarquis
04-14-2007, 07:07 PM
the heads i am talking about are i beleive around $1,000, but are made for the 2v but i am pretty sure that company makes something for the 4v's i got most of this from a book called "4.6l and 5.4l ford power" ( it has a picture of an orange SN95 mustang on the front), they have alot of combos and tips and tricks and all that, but of course with those head cames, cams, larger injectors, yada yada yada


cost affectivness?? unless you plan on doing it yourself, instead of paying labor charges, i'de stick to boost, ya know?

fastblackmerc
04-14-2007, 07:10 PM
Underdrive pulleys
Exhaust system work
4.10's
Higher stall torque converter
CAI (JLT or K&N)
Electric water pump
Agressive tune
Good reaction time

merc
04-14-2007, 07:11 PM
4:10 gears
Tune
Drive Shaft
Torque converter
Cold air kit
Exhaust (full)
Tires- Drag or Slicks
Low altitude track
Cool day – spring or fall
Good track prep

Did I forget anything ?

BruteForce
04-14-2007, 07:15 PM
4:10 gears
Tune
Drive Shaft
Torque converter
Cold air kit
Exhaust (full)
Tires- Drag or Slicks
Low altitude track
Cool day – spring or fall
Good track prep

Did I forget anything ?

Good tail wind?

HwyCruiser
04-14-2007, 08:09 PM
4:10 gears
Tune
Drive Shaft
Torque converter
Cold air kit
Exhaust (full)
Tires- Drag or Slicks
Low altitude track
Cool day – spring or fall
Good track prep

Did I forget anything ?

A track that points down hill?

Blackened300a
04-15-2007, 04:43 AM
Im pretty sure 4.10's, high stall convertor, pullies, intake, a good dyno tune, drag radials or a really good hook-up off the line, with cooler temperatures would put you into the high 13 second bracket without having to do headers and a full exhaust. How hard you launch off the convertor makes a big difference. I learned this at our last PTM. I raced a 06 Mustang GT convertible who was just beaten by a 02 Z28 by a car length. I lost to the GT by a half a car but was able to beat the Z28 by a full car, the difference was the traction. I spun too much against the GT off the line but launched really hard off the convertor against the Z28.
There is also the race gas tune which is cheap and effective.

Every Marauder responds different to mods so 13's could be achieved easier on some Marauders then others.

Big House
04-15-2007, 07:17 AM
I am currently running 14.2's and that was before the exhaust gains. My mods are listed in my signature. With the pick up from my exhaust I should be in the 13's now.

sailsmen
04-15-2007, 07:44 AM
For me the following produced 13.7 in the Deep South;
UD Pullies
Cobra Exhaust
4:10
3000 PI TC
SCT Tune
KDW.

At the track I rarely spun. The KDW will hook on a N/A car. I don't see the need for DR on a N/A car.

Others in cold air w/ similar set up ran 13.5.

Temp/humidity can increase times by up to .75.

merc
04-15-2007, 08:18 AM
Temp/humidity can increase times by up to .75.


NO PROBLEM RACEWAY PARK
BELLE ROSE, LOUISIANA
Track Elevation 12 feet above sea level

Sailsman, you take the same car to Bristol and you will lose a full second just because you are 4400 ft above sea level.

Mason Dixon ( A track were I spend most of my time)
Hagerstown, Maryland
2140-feet above sea level.

You might find youself putting on Drag radials to improve your times. Take a look at the link below to see how the NHRA adjusts altitude factors.
http://www.nhra.com/2002/sportsman/news/February/021501.html

martyo
04-15-2007, 08:31 AM
Merc would you please change your avatar.

Rich Christensen is such a doofus.

merc
04-15-2007, 08:38 AM
Merc would you please change your avatar.

Rich Christensen is such a doofus.


Ok, what about this one.

Joe Walsh
04-15-2007, 08:50 AM
At the track I rarely spun. The KDW will hook on a N/A car. I don't see the need for DR on a N/A car.





I definitely disagree!
When I was running 13.6s at Milan (MV3 drag event) the KDWs were going up in clouds of smoke due to excess wheelspin.
I could not run consistent times with the OEM tires.

If you are loading the torque converter at the line, then burying the throttle, you will need sticky tires.

sailsmen
04-15-2007, 08:55 AM
Sealevel is constant. Temp/humidity always vary. Unusual for the humid to be below 60% in our area. As a result of being near sealevel.

At sealevel on a typical 80+* & 80+% running 12.9. On a 50* & 50% running 12.2.

At 4,800', based on the tables, running 12.9 equates to running in the same Temp/humidity 12.51 for S/C and 12.13 for N/A.

For S/C a reduction of .4 and N/A a reduction of .77.

sailsmen
04-15-2007, 09:01 AM
I definitely disagree!
When I was running 13.6s at Milan (MV3 drag event) the KDWs were going up in clouds of smoke due to excess wheelspin.
I could not run consistent times with the OEM tires.

If you are loading the torque converter at the line, then burying the throttle, you will need sticky tires.

The KDW is not an OEM tire. I can only attest to what I have experienced w/ over 100 runs down the 1,320' N/A. The only time the KDW spun was when the track was not prepped or someone dumped on the launch pad.

The OEM KDWS will spin w/o a TC if the track is not prepped.

Marty ran 13.5 I beleive on OEM tires, maybe he can comment on his traction experience.

Based on the above information I suggest cool dry day w/ a prepped track that is near sealevel. You can always change to Drag Radials/Slicks/KDW-2 if traction is an issue. I would not purchase Drag Radials / Slicks based on one experience at the track.

I believe all the same info points were brought up during the same topic 30 or so days ago.

There was confusion over KDW vs KDWS in another thread. Like Tire Rack I will now try to refer to them as KDW-2.

Joe Walsh
04-15-2007, 09:11 AM
The KDW is not an OEM tire. I have over 100 runs down the 1,320' N/A. The only time the KDW spun was when the track was not prepped or someone dumped on the launch pad.

The OEM KDWS will spin w/o a TC if the track is not prepped.

10-4
I thought that you were talking about the OEM KDWS tires.
You find that the KDW tires are that much stickier than the KDWS tires?

sailsmen
04-15-2007, 09:36 AM
Yes, the KDW-2 will hook at the track. I found the OEM KDWS to be gyros, once they start to spin they keep spinning.

I find the KDW-2 to be a better all around tire, except it is not snow rated.

The rears are larger and fill out the fender. The fronts can be dismounted and swapped for longer wear.

One member does not like them, too noisy and poor handling.

I did not experience that.

Mike Poore
04-15-2007, 09:38 AM
4:10 gears
Tune
Drive Shaft
Torque converter
Cold air kit
Exhaust (full)
Tires- Drag or Slicks
Low altitude track
Cool day – spring or fall
Good track prep

Did I forget anything ?

Yep, Mark, you forgot the BOTTLE! :burnout:

A 75 shot should do it. It's the least expensive and quickest way to the 13's I know of ....once you've done some other, uh, stuff, of course.

MADRODER
04-15-2007, 03:22 PM
I agree^^^^^^^

Advancedautosec
04-15-2007, 03:40 PM
well thats more info than i expected. but thanks for all the info, that will help me get where i want to be. If i change the torque converter do i need to change the cams?

fastblackmerc
04-15-2007, 03:43 PM
well thats more info than i expected. but thanks for all the info, that will help me get where i want to be. If i change the torque converter do i need to change the cams?
You can change the cams but I believe the HP gain per dollar spent is not worth it. Just like modding the intake and heads... lotsa money spent but minimal HP gains. This has been discussed before... search.

Advancedautosec
04-15-2007, 03:50 PM
thanks, it seems like this isnt the first time you helped me out with something.

martyo
04-15-2007, 05:14 PM
Ok, what about this one.

I love that one wat more than Rich Christensen!!

mpearce
04-15-2007, 05:21 PM
3 years ago I ran a 14.23 @ 97.xx with just 4.10 gears and a (fantastic) tune only. I also had 50 degree temps, and a very well prepped track helping me out.

I feel confident that if I just added a higer stall torque converter only, it would have put me into the high 13's in the exact same conditions.

Add long tube headers & exhaust to the higher stall torque converter, and you've got solid 13's IMO.

You don't need much else to hit that goal.

Do your research.

juno
04-16-2007, 06:16 AM
I ran a 14.06 on street tires with a TC, 3.73's, Predator tune. Stock CAI.
On a semi warm-humid SFL night. Well not that warm compared to our standards, but warmer then anything outside the state.

Hack Goby
04-16-2007, 07:03 AM
I have run a best 14.33 with 4:10`s,PHP cold air kit,Metco upper and lower arms,and a Lidio tune.I have the KDW2`S and with the Metco`s I had a 2.1 60ft time.I have seen some nitrous disasters on youtube but I feel that a dry shot(80)and a safe tune should put me close to the mid 13`s. with no worry`s and not spending alot.

juno
04-16-2007, 07:10 AM
Yes, a TC will gain you as much as .5-.7 secs.


3 years ago I ran a 14.23 @ 97.xx with just 4.10 gears and a (fantastic) tune only. I also had 50 degree temps, and a very well prepped track helping me out.

I feel confident that if I just added a higer stall torque converter only, it would have put me into the high 13's in the exact same conditions.

Add long tube headers & exhaust to the higher stall torque converter, and you've got solid 13's IMO.

You don't need much else to hit that goal.

Do your research.

Blackened300a
04-16-2007, 07:12 AM
I have seen some nitrous disasters on youtube

This is why I dont have a bottle hooked up to my car. Im a bit terrified of that huge fireball coming out the hood.

But I have seen a 96 ImpalaSS go from 14.7 to a 13.2 with a 125 shot so it definitly works, but the risk factor

94_302
04-16-2007, 07:35 AM
This is why I dont have a bottle hooked up to my car. Im a bit terrified of that huge fireball coming out the hood.

But I have seen a 96 ImpalaSS go from 14.7 to a 13.2 with a 125 shot so it definitly works, but the risk factor

From what I have seen on the Mach boards a dry shot seems to be the "safest" way to go. The explosion of the 01 cobra on the dyno is a wet kit that they sprayed at too low of an rpm.

Raudermaster
04-16-2007, 07:47 AM
Well, I'll let you guys know how my 125 shot goes. I hope I have no regrets.

prchrman
04-16-2007, 08:39 AM
Drag way elevations have been mentioned on this post and others...like Bristol is 6000' or 4000' when it is really 1500' to 1600'...also Hagerstown is 2100' when it is less the 600'...I live 1.5 hours from Bristol and it is down hill the whole way and I live at 2700'...the issue with Bristol maybe that it is a up hill track...not to be a jerk to anyone but these elevations are way off...willie

Hack Goby
04-16-2007, 08:56 AM
Well, I'll let you guys know how my 125 shot goes. I hope I have no regrets. Lidio has only done a few Marauders with just nitrous and a 80 shot is as high as he would want to go.This is my everyday driver and I don`t plan on beating on it all the time but it`s nice to have when someone needs a beatdown.

merc
04-16-2007, 08:58 AM
Drag way elevations have been mentioned on this post and others...like Bristol is 6000' or 4000' when it is really 1500' to 1600'...also Hagerstown is 2100' when it is less the 600'...I live 1.5 hours from Bristol and it is down hill the whole way and I live at 2700'...the issue with Bristol maybe that it is a up hill track...not to be a jerk to anyone but these elevations are way off...willie

http://www.masondixondragway.com/
Track Elevation 535' (listed on home page)

http://www.bristoldragway.com/about%5Fthunder%5Fvalley/fact%5Fsheet/Elevation: 1,475 feet above sea level

I listed a site with bad information, but the facts don't change in the conversation. I have run Bristol 3 years in a row and each time I was almost a full second off my best E/T. I had this conversation with Martyo and Brian a couple of years ago. Most racers that have the equipment make electronic and manual adjustments for competing on this track. The other just run what the track gives them.

ctrlraven
04-16-2007, 09:42 AM
I think a 3000 stall TC and Hoosier drag radials will be my next mod to hit 13's, guess I'll have to pick up a helmet now.

Anyone know a good site to get a helmet from?

merc
04-16-2007, 10:06 AM
I think a 3000 stall TC and Hoosier drag radials will be my next mod to hit 13's, guess I'll have to pick up a helmet now.

Anyone know a good site to get a helmet from?

I got one from the local motorcycle store (Colemen). It had a snell 2000 rating. Look inside the helment for the snell sticker. The cost was around 120 for the full face model or check E-Bay.

UPDATE

A helmet is required for the driver of any car or truck running 13.99 seconds or quicker in the quarter mile, and for the rider of any motorcycle. Most drivers can use a helmet meeting SNELL M95, SA95, K98, or 2005 specifications. Professional category and some alcohol burning vehicles require an SA rated helmet. It is important to note that the helmet rating must be designated on a tag INSIDE the helmet, or sewn to one of the helmet straps. The designation stenciled on the exterior of the helmet is insufficient for NHRA technical inspection. Also, some tracks require a helmet on ALL drivers, so check in advance.

juno
04-16-2007, 11:06 AM
If you can afford it, get an SA rated helmet as roadcourse and some other driving events will not accept anything else. Don't forget the DS loop also.


I got one from the local motorcycle store (Colemen). It had a snell 2000 rating. Look inside the helment for the snell sticker. The cost was around 120 for the full face model or check E-Bay.

UPDATE

A helmet is required for the driver of any car or truck running 13.99 seconds or quicker in the quarter mile, and for the rider of any motorcycle. Most drivers can use a helmet meeting SNELL M95, SA95, K98, or 2005 specifications. Professional category and some alcohol burning vehicles require an SA rated helmet. It is important to note that the helmet rating must be designated on a tag INSIDE the helmet, or sewn to one of the helmet straps. The designation stenciled on the exterior of the helmet is insufficient for NHRA technical inspection. Also, some tracks require a helmet on ALL drivers, so check in advance.

Blackened300a
04-16-2007, 11:29 AM
Don't forget the DS loop also.

This rule annoys me. The factory can sell you a 13 second car without a loop and feel confident with you driving in the public without having the driveshaft fall out but you cant drive in a straight line.
I would imagine if there is a chance of losing the driveshaft then the factory should address it and install it on all RWD cars.

Out of curiosity, Since we have a H-pipe from the factory, wouldnt that do the same job as a loop is if the drive shaft snapped?

ctrlraven
04-16-2007, 11:31 AM
Oh yeah forgot about the driveshaft loops but really how many tracks check for those? I usually run at Capitol and I've never seen them check my friends cars who run 11's-13's.