Rotella 5W40 Synthetic????

[Marauderjack]

Has anyone tried this stuff??:confused:

I have used Mobil I 5W30 for 3 yeras now and it seems the OP in our currently HOT weather is a little lower than I remember.....about 40 PSI cruising at 2200 RPM's with coolant temps at 206*-210*....If I can believe the AM gauge??!!:rolleyes:

I know that we collectively agree that the "5W" part helps circulation during cold starts but 20W or 30W when HOT might not be quite enough??:argue:

Any ideas or input here??:confused:

BTW...Rotella 5W40 Synthetic is $16.xx a gallon at Wally World.....I might just give it a try and report back.....I don't think it can hurt anything??:shake:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Mike Poore]

I'm sure the 5W part is a must, but what about the 40W? Is it going to pool-up in the cylinder heads and do the blue smoke start-up thing?

I'm interested in what Bob has to say about it. BTW, isn't that about the same price as the 5qt jugs of Mobil-1, and Mobil-1's a known quantity, FWIW.

The other part of trying something with anecdotal, seat of the pants reports, unless it ruins your motor, a Blackstone report might be considered to get any meaningful data.

[Marauderjack]

I'm sure the 5W part is a must, but what about the 40W? Is it going to pool-up in the cylinder heads and do the blue smoke start-up thing?

I'm interested in what Bob has to say about it. BTW, isn't that about the same price as the 5qt jugs of Mobil-1, and Mobil-1's a known quantity, FWIW.

The other part of trying something with anecdotal, seat of the pants reports, unless it ruins your motor, a Blackstone report might be considered to get any meaningful data.


Thanks for your reply Mike!!

FWIW.....HOT 20W...30W...and probably 40W is not very viscous so I don't think pooling will be a problem....Just wondering if the 40W part might offer more protection (and pressure) in the higher operating temps of Summer??:confused:

I also suspect that Shell Rotella oils are just as high quality as any out there....Been around a long time and have been very effective from a wear point of view!!:bows:

I have run Rotella 15W40 "Dino" oil in my 408W stroker in the Cobra for 4 years and it has performed very well....but that motor has much wider clearances than the MM....I think?? Cobra OP is 25 PSI (Hot Idle) and 55-60 PSI (Hot Cruise 2000 RPM's).

I plan on going over 200K miles on this "Stock" motor.....more if it will do it?? So far...so good and with 58K miles on the FIT blower install it runs better than ever......Probably ready to blow today but if it does I CANNOT COMPLAIN!!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Local Boy]

I read somewhere on this site, a post from some one (sorry can't remember his name) who actualy worked in field. He explained and advised against using oil that has a wide range such as 5w-40. He talked about how it causes the motor to work harder to pump the oil, resulting in more heat. He also said that it had more "something" ( I forget the technical term)that was not good... and had less "something" (forgot technical term)that was not good also. He recommended 5w-30 at the most for our motors. Will try to find that post again for you to read and decided for yourself. It was a good read! Very interesting. ALOHA

FOUND IT: use search button type in "Oil viscosity" ... The 6th post from the top is "Buy your oil form Wal-Mart... Interesting essay" by GreekGod... in that post there is a essay by Boss302 - Read it you may find it interesting as well. ALOHA

[Marauderjack]

Mac did a study once and found that higher viscosity caused less heat to be carried away and I verified this last Winter going to 10W30......I'm talking about Summer temps ONLY in a blower application!!:D I feel like the 40W number might give a little better protection??:cool:

I may just give it a try tomorrow and see what happens??:confused: Worst case I go right back to Mobil I 5W30!!:beer:

Stay tuned!!;)

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Glenn]

Come on guys, use search for the 5W-40 oil answer. The answer is clearly NO - do not use anything but 5W-20 in your MM engine. The clearances are too tight to use 5W-40. Also, 5W-40 will increase heat in your engine and result in less gas mileage. It will not increase engine protection.

Glenn

[fastblackmerc]

With the tight engine tolerences, the heavest oil I run in mine is 5w30 if I can't get 5w20. Why do you think the engineers spec'd 5w20 oil? Because it sounded good?

[CRUZTAKER]

Come on guys, use search for the 5W-40 oil answer. The answer is clearly NO .....


....or read the friggin owner's manual.;)

[Marauderjack]

With the tight engine tolerences, the heavest oil I run in mine is 5w30 if I can't get 5w20. Why do you think the engineers spec'd 5w20 oil? Because it sounded good?

This response is exactly why I should not have opened an "Oil Thread" here!!!:argue:

The original reason for using light weight oil was to reduce energy consumed moving oil around thus reducing fuel consumption.....maybe!!:confus ed: They also found that with lighter weight oil they needed to tighten tolerances to maintain pressure and prolong engine life!!??:beer:

Let's say I have 200K miles on my engine, bearing clearances are now .003"-.005" instead of .0015" and the OP has fallen 15-20%......my question is will the 5W40 produce higher oil pressure DURING HOT WEATHER and protect what is left of the engine better than the 5W20??:cool:

Are all of the oil companies promoting "High Mileage" oils to scam people with older engines??:argue:

Admin.....If this thread is going to continue to become a "Slug Fest" with smart a$$ responses like the one above....please feel free close it so we can move on!!!:shake:

I'll report the results of my test if & when I do it...for those who would like to know!!:beer:

Marauderjack:bandit:

[Marauderjack]

Well......FWIW.....

I put the 5W40 Rotella in on Friday afternoon and other than a very slight increase in OP (<5PSI) I can tell no difference from the Mobil I 5W30!!??:confused:

Temps are all about the same and as stated the OP is almost identical....which leads me to the conclusion that the bypass in the FL-1A (used with my remote) is most probably a bit lower pressure than in the FL-820S??:cool:

I'll run the Rotella next week and probably go back to the Mobil I stuff at the next change!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[SilverSport]

I always thought that Rotella was specially formulated for Diesels and heavy machinery, at least it was. I did a search and found that is also rated for gas engines. If you want to read up on it, here is a link:
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/product_rotellasynth.html


Personally, I wouldn't use 5-40 because of the close tolerences in a modern OHC engine. I do use 5-30 Mobil 1.

[Marauderjack]

I always thought that Rotella was specially formulated for Diesels and heavy machinery, at least it was. I did a search and found that is also rated for gas engines. If you want to read up on it, here is a link:
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/product_rotellasynth.html


Personally, I wouldn't use 5-40 because of the close tolerences in a modern OHC engine. I do use 5-30 Mobil 1.


What if your engine has 200K miles and runs fine but the OP is low (wider clearances)?? That's the question I posed above (post #9)!!:confused:

BTW, the 5W40 is "Formulated" for EXTREME service......fits the bill in my mind!!??:rolleyes:

Marauderjack:cool4:

[MENINBLK]

Here is a scenario that should at least explain
why it is bad to use thicker viscosity oils...

Take a straw.
Try to push water through it.
It takes a certain PSI to get so much water through the straw.

Now take the same straw and try to push syrup through it.
In order to get the same amount of syrup through the straw as water
it takes a lot more PSI to do it.

Now take the same straw and try to push honey through it.
It will take a lot more pressure to push the honey through the straw
than it takes the syrup or the water.

If the pump you are using is only capable of producing 100 PSI,
which would you want your pump to be circulating ?
Water, Syrup or Honey ?

You have to remember that it takes a large volume of liquid to remove heat
at a rate that will keep the hot parts at a temperature that is safe.
If the liquid stays in place too long it will absorb too much heat and burn.
When it burns, it leaves behind a varnish that coats the moving hot parts.
This varnish can cause unnecessary friction and more heat between these parts.

So are you still willing to use 40 weight oil in an engine that only calls for 20 ?
Remember, our internal parts are ALUMINUM not STEEL.
Aluminum has a lower melting point than Steel.

[CRUZTAKER]

Admin.....If this thread is going to continue to become a "Slug Fest" with smart a$$ responses like the one above....please feel free close it so we can move on!!!:shake:

Ahh comom Jack...6 months ago I could have closed this thread for you and I would have replied the same and STILL not closed your thread.

Our point is...do as you will, but do not condone your irrational choices to the newbies as though they are well meant.

If you "thought" there would be trouble, why offer?

You can be the test bunny and let us all know how your motor enjoys what the engineers at Ford knew wasn't appropriate, but DO NOT CONDONE your choices to members that do not have the knowledge WE already have.

Good luck, and hopefully you do not have an extended warranty to fall back on, because it will be VOIDED much like mine was.

Peace!;)

[Mike M]

Mobil also makes a 5w-40 synthetic.
The high mileage motor oils that are out now contain seal swellers to help with oil leaks.

Ford and Honda seem to be the big 5w-20 users while almost everyone else is using 5w-30.
The Europeans are all over the place with 0w-40 and 5w-40 and 10w-60 (BMW M3).

Update.....we did our 2000th work order yesterday!!! Woopy!
I am taking my guys out for lunch and go-kart racing and the winners get CASH!

Mobil 1 Lube Express
Anthem, AZ

[Marauderjack]

So are you still willing to use 40 weight oil in an engine that only calls for 20 ?
Remember, our internal parts are ALUMINUM not STEEL.
Aluminum has a lower melting point than Steel.


OK.....Tell me where all of these aluminum parts are that will melt by using 5W40 weight oil!!:confused: Keep in mind that our EXHAUST ports are ALUMINUM.....I don't buy your explanation here!!:shake:

Yes....it may take a bit more energy to push 40W around and it may not remove engine heat as efficiently but think about the film strength at the mains and rod journals!!??:cool: Also, the viscosities you give as examples are VASTLY different......30W to 40W is a very minor increase!! I still contend that 5W20 was specified for fuel mileage reasons....period!!:coolman:

I have not noticed ANY change in operating temps or surprisingly oil pressure so I plan to go back to Motorcraft 5W20 next weekend and see what happens!!:beer: Intuitively I would expect a drop in oil pressure but who knows since the 5W40 didn't change anything??:rolleyes:

Congrats on your 2000th work order Mike!!:beer::beer: Keep up the good work!!:D

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Sharky]

Motor Oil 101 by A. E. Haas (http://63.240.161.99/motoroil/) - Everything you always wanted to know about motor oil but didn't know who to ask.

"Bob is the Oil Guy" Forums (http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0) - Reliable answers to questions about motor oil (and just about any other automotive product - fuels, additives, filters, waxes, etc. etc.) from automotive engineers and petroleum company engineers, automotive technicians, and others with extensive knowledge of such topics.

[Sharky]

Yes....it may take a bit more energy to push 40W around and it may not remove engine heat as efficiently but think about the film strength at the mains and rod journals!!??:cool: Also, the viscosities you give as examples are VASTLY different......30W to 40W is a very minor increase!! I still contend that 5W20 was specified for fuel mileage reasons....period!!:coolman:


The greatest confusion is because of the way motor oils are labeled. It is an old system and is confusing to many people. I know the person is confused when they say that a 0W-30 oil is too thin for their engine because the old manual says to use 10W-30. This is wrong.

More confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning when it gets hot. They think this thinning with heat is the problem with motor oil. It would be more correct to think that oil thickens when it cools to room temperature and THIS is the problem. In fact this is the problem. It is said that 90 percent of engine wear occurs at startup. If we are interested in engine longevity then we should concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup.

. . .


It is time to introduce the concept of lubrication. Most believe that pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be using 90 weight oil. Lubrication is used to separate moving parts, to keep them from touching. There is a one to one relationship between flow and separation. If you double the flow you will double the separation pressure in a bearing. The pressure at the bearing entrance is irrelevant.

In fact the relationship between pressure and flow is in opposition. If you change your oil to a thicker formula the pressure will go up. It goes up because the resistance to flow is greater and in fact the flow must go down in order for the pressure to go up. They are inversely related. Conversely if you choose a thinner oil then the pressure will go down. This can only occur if the flow has increased.

It seems then that we should all be using the thinnest oil money can buy. This is partly true. Let me use my 575 Ferrari Maranello as an example. I drive this car around town. The manual of this car states the target pressure is 75 PSI at 6,000 RPM. The gold standard is that all engines should have a pressure of 10 PSI for every 1,000 RPM of operation, not more, not less. After all, you do need some pressure to move that oil along, but only enough pressure, not more. More pressure is not better, it can only result from the impedance of oil flow. Remember that oil flow is the only thing that does the lubricating.

. . .

High flow does more than lubricate. It is one of the things used to cool the hottest parts of your engine, the pistons, valve areas and bearings. This cooling effect is as important as lubrication in your engine. If your engine is running hot use a thinner oil. The flow will increase and so will the cooling. This is even more important in the racing condition.


About the author:
Dr. Haas is a physician and surgeon. He graduated from the University of Florida with a degree in biochemistry with honors. He studied motor oils since high school where he did independent studies on this topic. He studied the properties of viscosity.

When he was a general surgery resident in Chapel Hill he studied the flow mechanics of human blood. Today he continues his research by discussion of oil products with chemists in the field and chemists from the oil manufacturers.

He has personal racing experience in Formula Super Vee. He is his own Lamborghini and Ferrari as well as Mercedes mechanic.

Follow the link in my post above for lots, lots more.

[Sharky]

One more thing then I'll STFU. I recall reading something on Bob is the Oil Guy about it being a bad idea to use Rotella in a gasoline engine. I can't remember the specifics of what was discussed, but if you go to BitOG and search on Rotella you can probably find something helpful.

[Marauderjack]

One more thing then I'll STFU. I recall reading something on Bob is the Oil Guy about it being a bad idea to use Rotella in a gasoline engine. I can't remember the specifics of what was discussed, but if you go to BitOG and search on Rotella you can probably find something helpful.

The only drawback with Rotella was a high level of ZDDP will have an adverse effect on catalytic converters over time!!:argue: Non-converter cars were no problem and that is why I used it only in the Cobra.....Now Rotella oils are just like others and are OK for converter cars!!:confused:

Thanks for your input Sharky!!:beer:

Yesterday I went back to Motorcraft 5W20 and actually saw very little decrease in pressure??:confused: I only began to use Mobil I 5W30 because Wal-Mart here didn't carry 5W20 and I personally felt FULL synthetic was better all around!!:bows:

This little experiment has yielded only a very slight change in oil pressure from the 5W30 I have used for 3 years.......the 5W40 was about "one needle width" higher in pressure while the 5W20 about "one needle width" lower across the board....on the "Real?" AutoMeter gauge!!:cool: I honestly would have expected much more of a difference from 20W to 40W but I guess oil manufacturers understand that FLOW is actually what is needed for lubrication as was pointed out in Sharky's post!!!:bows:

Have I proved anything other than oil threads are a "mine field"??:rolleyes: I think so and I will probably look around and get some Mobil I 5W20 and keep rollin'!!!!:beer:

Thanks for all the interest and all comments!!

Marauderjack:burnout:

[CRUZTAKER]

Booya...group hug.
:beer:

[wchain]

Yup,
Rotella is for Diesels, I use them in all mine, except the SDL that currently has 273,000 miles on it, I use Royal Purple 15W40 in her!

I'd stick with the 5W20 or 5W30. FWIW, CHP was ADAMANT about using 20W50 in their entire fleet for many years, including the 4.6L Engines in the 92+ CVs, some Police Motorcylces etcbut apparently their school of thought has changed (article in Police Fleet Manager).

As everyone else has stated, our Mod Motors have tight tolerances, 5W20 and 5W30 are good choices. I even use 5W20 in my 32V Navigator with 140,000 miles on it, no leaks, no burning, no smoke, no consumption, no problems.

Just my .02

[rayjay]

FWIW, I tried Mobil 1 5w-30 instead of the 5w-20 a couple years ago. I noticed a slight decrease in MPG. Returned to the 5w-20 next change and the MPG went back to where it had been.

[Mike Poore]

Thanks for your reply Mike!!

FWIW.....HOT 20W...30W...and probably 40W is not very viscous so I don't think pooling will be a problem....Just wondering if the 40W part might offer more protection (and pressure) in the higher operating temps of Summer??:confused:


Jack, I still mantain that pooling in the cylinder heads, by more viscous oils, was the cause of many of the reports of the dreaded "TICK" as well as the blue smoke start-up issue; when the car was re-started after a brief shutdown. I personally experienced the blue smoke syndrome, and was told it was because I had used Mobil-1 5W-30 instead of the manufacturers requirement of 5W-20. There was a lengthily and informative post about it some while back, which may have involved some of the heavy weights on this board, like Dennis Reinhart. :)

Still, I wish Bob would jump in.

[Mike M]

I get the occasional smoke at startup, I switched to 5w-30 (always Mobil 1) about a month ago and see no difference in the frequency of smoke (actually I thought it decreased but that is not official).

I went with a Mobil 1 oil filter this time, it has synthetic media and a real nice paint job!

As careful as I am the dammed oil plug threads were getting boogered up and I replaced it.

I have to track down the rear end noise coming from the drivers side. Very weird creaking sound that is not there cold, only after I drive for about 5-10 minutes.

[Shora]

Jack, I still mantain that pooling in the cylinder heads, by more viscous oils, was the cause of many of the reports of the dreaded "TICK" as well as the blue smoke start-up issue; when the car was re-started after a brief shutdown. I personally experienced the blue smoke syndrome, and was told it was because I had used Mobil-1 5W-30 instead of the manufacturers requirement of 5W-20. There was a lengthily and informative post about it some while back, which may have involved some of the heavy weights on this board, like Dennis Reinhart.

I do not agree with you.

I have 39K miles on my Marauder and it has had an oil change every 3K on the button. The engine has NEVER seen anything other than Motorcraft 5W-20 Syn. Blend oil and FL-820S oil filters.

What's my point you ask?

I have the smoke on start up. So, I disagree that the tick, pooling of the oil, and smoke on start up is a result of higher weight oil used.

I believe that it is well documented that the tick is a result of a manufacturing defect on early driver side cylinder head.

[SideshowBob]

I use Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 in all of my motorcycles (perfect for wet clutches), but I stick to the Motorcraft 5W-20 for the Marauder. Times have changed, technology has improved and I believe that, while Ford may indeed have wanted to go with lighter oil for increased fuel economy, they also have to be concerned about warranty issues and customer satisfaction (yes, they really do want you to be a happy customer so they can sell you another car down the line) and wouldn't recommend using the wrong viscosity oil. Also, if it were just for fuel economy, they wouldn't need to recommend 5W-20 so strongly, including printing it on the oil filler cap. They only need to show the car gets X miles per gallon to the EPA, after it's sold they couldn't care less how your mileage may vary.

[Marauderjack]

I use Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 in all of my motorcycles (perfect for wet clutches), but I stick to the Motorcraft 5W-20 for the Marauder. Times have changed, technology has improved and I believe that, while Ford may indeed have wanted to go with lighter oil for increased fuel economy, they also have to be concerned about warranty issues and customer satisfaction (yes, they really do want you to be a happy customer so they can sell you another car down the line) and wouldn't recommend using the wrong viscosity oil. Also, if it were just for fuel economy, they wouldn't need to recommend 5W-20 so strongly, including printing it on the oil filler cap. They only need to show the car gets X miles per gallon to the EPA, after it's sold they couldn't care less how your mileage may vary.

Hello Bob,

Also......MotorCraft=Ford Product:cool:

Marauderjack:rolleyes:

[RF Overlord]

if it were just for fuel economy, they wouldn't need to recommend 5W-20 so strongly, including printing it on the oil filler cap. They only need to show the car gets X miles per gallon to the EPA, Actually, they needed to do much more than just demonstrate to the EPA that 5W-20 increased fuel economy. I have a copy of a letter sent to Ford by the EPA which states that any manufacturer wishing to have a motor certified by the EPA using 5W-20 oil must do the following (in part):

1) The manufacturer provides instructions in the Owner's Manual that clearly and unambiguously identify 5W-20 as the oil which is to be used in the vehicle's engine under ambient temperature conditions likely to be experienced during normal vehicle operation.

2) The manufacturer clearly indicates on the engine oil filler cap that 5W-20 engine oil is to be used in the engine.

3) (not relevant to this discussion)

4) The manufacturer uses 5W-20 engine oil as factory fill in production vehicles.

5) The manufacturer supplies its dealers with 5W-20 engine oil, or otherwise secures the use of 5W-20 engine oil by its dealers in customer vehicles.

6) The manufacturer obtains commitments from manufacturers of engine oils that they will manufacture 5W-20 engine oil in sufficient quantity to meet demand, and market 5W-20 through all of their marketing outlets, and promote the use of 5W-20 at "quick oil change" facilities.
-----------------------------

Motorcraft 5W-20 is a superb oil that gives outstanding performance in the modular motors.

Here's an interesting tidbit: we have emergency generators at the 8 telecom sites I'm responsible for. Some of them use the Ford Power Products 6.8L V10 and the manual for them states to use 5W-20. These are 60 and 80 kW generators that have to start, come up to speed, and take a full load within 8 seconds, and possibly run that way for hours at a time. I've spoken with FPP's engineering staff in Dearborn and they have told me that the industrial motor is internally identical to the ones put in civilian trucks (like the F-250, etc). There's certainly no concern about fuel economy in this application...