P.I Torque Converter Impressions

[Marauder131]

Last weekend I had a 3000 stall P.I converter installed to go along with the previously installed 4.10's/alternative auto tune. First impressions from driving the car after the install, is that it pulls a little harder off the line from 1st to 2nd gear, and a little harder overall. That being said, I didn't find the difference to be overly significant. Also, there always was a flat spot at around 60 km/h when you hit it, even when stock, but it may be a little more noticeable now, at least as opposed to just prior to doing the install when I was just running 4.10's and a tune.

Some poeple who have done the mod mentioned a re-tune. With regard to this, is such a reference to doing a re-tune as opposed to the factory one, or a re-tune even after having already had an aftermarket tune installed previously? In the instance of a re-tune after having had a performance tune, what parameters specifically are addressed? I had contacted Lidio prior to the install, and he indicated that a re-tune was not necessary. Many of the comments by people that went the converter route seem to indicate a substantial difference. I am wondering if my expectations were a little high as a result, or if a re-tune of some sort would be helpful.

[Glenn]

The TC cut 0.6+ off my et in the 1/4 mile. That's a big improvement! You should have run the 1/4 mile before and after to accurately judge the improvement.

Glenn

[Grifter]

depends on what you were expecting. a TC is really only going to benefit you off the line. throttle response and torque multiplication are going to increase a bit as well, but its not going to be the same feeling as it was stepping from 3.55's to 4.10's

[Marauder131]

It certainly made a differece; however, as with many things it's subjective. I often hear people comment on the vast difference going to 4.10's makes; that it makes it a whole new car. Personally, I wouldn't go quite that far. The difference, although a noted improvement, logically can only result in so much improvement in such a heavy car. I do feel, however, that the tune, gears and torque converter cumulatively, do make for a significant improvement over the car when it was in stock form.

[sailsmen]

The biggest difference is the increase decible level coming from the rear tires when from a dead stop you quickly push the throttle pedal to it's stop.

Your rear tires become gyros set inperpetual motion resulting in an ear to ear grin.:D

If this does not occurr install Super Charger.

[juno]

Did you try a WOT pull from a standstill? Or even from a slow speed? That is where you really notice the difference.

[Marauder131]

From a dead stop it pulls noticeably harder from 1st to 2nd gear. That being said, if it is remotely warm out, even with the traction control off, it won't utter so much as a chirp from the rear tires.

[ctrlraven]

From a dead stop it pulls noticeably harder from 1st to 2nd gear. That being said, if it is remotely warm out, even with the traction control off, it won't utter so much as a chirp from the rear tires.

I haven't installed my 3500 stall torque converter yet but I do have a tune and when my bfg kdw2 255/55-18 tires were brand new they would chirp everytime at the 1-2 shift. As they started to wear I noticed it would only do it if the tires were slightly wet like driving through a puddle and then go WOT. As the tread wears down it will allow more contact surface area so it's going to grip and grab more on a dry surface, at least from what I have experienced.

You may want to try and bump up the shift % some and see what that does.
I have mine set 1-2 shift 20%, 2-3 shift 15% and 3-4 shift 15%.

I was told by a bunch of members when I started asking questions that I would only really see the difference at WOT or pretty close to it, not with just easing her out of the hole or normal driving. Which was fine with me because the whole point of the torque converter was to decrease my 1/4 time and increase my 1/4 mph. It's truly a go fast mod that actually doesn't add any power whatsoever but just captures and transmits more of power that is already there.

I bought my tune and torque converter from Dennis Reinhart and he said I shouldn't need a re-tune but if I do feel something is flying right to give him a call and discuss the issues and try to resolve them.

[Pat]

During my research on stall converters I discovered that the 03 model converter had a stall speed of 2400 RPM and the 04 model had a stall speed of 2700 RPM.

That tells me that an 03 driver will feel a bigger improvement using a 3000 RPM converter (difference of 600 RPM) than an 04 driver with the same 3000 RPM converter (difference of 300 RPM).

Discussions with vendors and theorists disclosed that a converter stall speed should match the 80% point in the car's torque curve. That equates to about 3500 RPM looking at the many HP/Torque graphs available on this site.

So, armed with that info I had installed a PI 3500 RPM converter and lo and behold my expectations were met.

WOT is, of course, much better, but part throttle is where this thing shines. I just walk away to 50 MPH in a flash. Not even breathing hard. A lot of fun to drive so effortlessly.

I didn't notice any anomolies around the 50-60 mph points but the shifting pattern has changed. I'll get that looked at after MV V when I can talk to DR and he can feel the car's performance and make a recommendation based on observation.

Pat




Pat

[Blackened300a]

Last weekend I had a 3000 stall P.I converter installed to go along with the previously installed 4.10's/alternative auto tune. First impressions from driving the car after the install, is that it pulls a little harder off the line from 1st to 2nd gear, and a little harder overall. That being said, I didn't find the difference to be overly significant. Also, there always was a flat spot at around 60 km/h when you hit it, even when stock, but it may be a little more noticeable now, at least as opposed to just prior to doing the install when I was just running 4.10's and a tune.

Some poeple who have done the mod mentioned a re-tune. With regard to this, is such a reference to doing a re-tune as opposed to the factory one, or a re-tune even after having already had an aftermarket tune installed previously? In the instance of a re-tune after having had a performance tune, what parameters specifically are addressed? I had contacted Lidio prior to the install, and he indicated that a re-tune was not necessary. Many of the comments by people that went the converter route seem to indicate a substantial difference. I am wondering if my expectations were a little high as a result, or if a re-tune of some sort would be helpful.

I had a dead spot which was noticable as well. I had a tune to take care of that and I felt a difference in performance as well. I have a 3000 stall and 4.10's as well and like you in the hot weather, its not easy to get the tires to break loose. If you hold the brake, bring up the revs and launch it that way you'll get the full potential of the convertor.
When the temps drop you'll break the rears loose with ease.

[CRUZTAKER]

.... I didn't find the difference to be overly significant.

Wow.

After my install, bear in mind I was already laying down 318 at the rear NA, was OMG-WTF!!!!

The rear broke loose insanely upon a rolling crush.

One of the best mods I ever did. :up:

[Marauder131]

I had a dead spot which was noticable as well. I had a tune to take care of that and I felt a difference in performance as well. I have a 3000 stall and 4.10's as well and like you in the hot weather, its not easy to get the tires to break loose. If you hold the brake, bring up the revs and launch it that way you'll get the full potential of the convertor.
When the temps drop you'll break the rears loose with ease.

What parameters did the tune address to achieve the improvement? I'm just wondering if I could use my tuner to tweek things if needed.

[Blackened300a]

What parameters did the tune address to achieve the improvement? I'm just wondering if I could use my tuner to tweek things if needed.

Its in the lock-up schedule. I would suggest someone who knows how to set it up adjust it for you.

[bigal614]

Hey buddy, I have an 03 MM so would suggest a 3000 stall instead of a 3500 as you have put in your Rauder??


During my research on stall converters I discovered that the 03 model converter had a stall speed of 2400 RPM and the 04 model had a stall speed of 2700 RPM.

That tells me that an 03 driver will feel a bigger improvement using a 3000 RPM converter (difference of 600 RPM) than an 04 driver with the same 3000 RPM converter (difference of 300 RPM).

Discussions with vendors and theorists disclosed that a converter stall speed should match the 80% point in the car's torque curve. That equates to about 3500 RPM looking at the many HP/Torque graphs available on this site.

So, armed with that info I had installed a PI 3500 RPM converter and lo and behold my expectations were met.

WOT is, of course, much better, but part throttle is where this thing shines. I just walk away to 50 MPH in a flash. Not even breathing hard. A lot of fun to drive so effortlessly.

I didn't notice any anomolies around the 50-60 mph points but the shifting pattern has changed. I'll get that looked at after MV V when I can talk to DR and he can feel the car's performance and make a recommendation based on observation.

Pat




Pat

[mpearce]

My before and after impression is very significant. It drives differently, it launches differently. I really like the feel. Its more conducive to my driving style anyway. Some people say it hurts driveability. I don't think so at all. Instant power when you want it with a touch of the pedal. Well...as much as you can get N/A anyway.

:cool:

-Mat

[Dragcity]

I had a 3500 stall in my '78 T-bird when I raced it. Made a HUGE difference and did NOT effect normal drivability.

Sounds like you ned a re-tune.

Additionally, have you cleaned your MAF sensor and Throttle Body lately. (make sure you use the correct cleaner) If those two areas are dirty, you will suffer from poor throttle response and those nasty dead spots. I clean mine at each oil change...

[bigal614]

What is the correct cleaner?

[Dragcity]

MAF specific cleaner for the Mass Air Flow Sensor (CRC brand is good and innexpensive) Sensor Safe Throttle body cleaner for the throttle body (CRC again) Do search engine and type in "MAF Cleaner" ~ "Throttle Body Cleaner" You'll see.....

Don't use brake cleaner of Carb claner. Stuff is like $3 or $4 a can, good to have around. First time cleaning the TB, if it's real dirty, you'll probably go through a whole can. after that, should get three cleaning per can. The MAF cleaner will last longer, as the sensor is the size of a hair pin....

Follow the instuctiones'. Not like cleaning a carb, can't have engine running. Put a rag down below the Throttle Body before spraying. I always use a clean rag to wipe out the throttle plates and as far inside as I can reach with my Sausage fingers. Concentrate on the plate felcrums (where the plates pivot [4 points])

I am heading down to VA this weekend, and will perform this tonight.

[bigal614]

Very cool! Thank you!!!

[fastcar]

Hey buddy, I have an 03 MM so would suggest a 3000 stall instead of a 3500 as you have put in your Rauder??

Is this a question, or a statement??? I can't figure it out...

It was in response to a previous post recommending a 3500 stall speed.

fastcar:burnout:

[MM_BKK]

Last weekend I had a 3000 stall P.I converter installed to go along with the previously installed 4.10's/alternative auto tune. First impressions from driving the car after the install, is that it pulls a little harder off the line from 1st to 2nd gear, and a little harder overall. That being said, I didn't find the difference to be overly significant. Also, there always was a flat spot at around 60 km/h when you hit it, even when stock, but it may be a little more noticeable now, at least as opposed to just prior to doing the install when I was just running 4.10's and a tune.

Some poeple who have done the mod mentioned a re-tune. With regard to this, is such a reference to doing a re-tune as opposed to the factory one, or a re-tune even after having already had an aftermarket tune installed previously? In the instance of a re-tune after having had a performance tune, what parameters specifically are addressed? I had contacted Lidio prior to the install, and he indicated that a re-tune was not necessary. Many of the comments by people that went the converter route seem to indicate a substantial difference. I am wondering if my expectations were a little high as a result, or if a re-tune of some sort would be helpful.

Going with the high stall TC, you're pretty much going to only notice a big difference off the line or at lower speed. Don't get me wrong, this is by far one of the most cost effective mod you can do to really wake up the Marauder, especially with the 3500 stall. This can cut your e.t by up to .6 seconds as some member have reported and if you're at the 1/4 mi track, this could mean winning a race with it or losing without it. Once you're rolling up to 60-70 mph, you're not going to notice much difference. I hope you weren't expecting any additional HP from the engine from just the TC. Although, the TC does give you the effect that the engine has more torque from dead stop. The hard pull you're experiencing from dead stop is the result of additional torque multiplication from the TC from RPM flashing to ~2800 RPM as oppose to ~2200 stock when you punch it. Once the input and output speed of TC is nearing each other or your RPM is greater than the rated stall, the torque multiplication is just about done and now you're working strictly off the engine's torque output.

As far as getting a retune for the higher stall TC, I would address the area of shift points and TC lock up. I would have the part-throttle shift schedule raised about 25% and the TC lock up to only occur in 4th gear. This will greatly improve driveabilty. Just normal driving, your will be at 60MPH before you even know it. :D

[Pat]

Is this a question, or a statement??? I can't figure it out...

It was in response to a previous post recommending a 3500 stall speed.

fastcar:burnout:


I think the sentence should read "would YOU suggest".

Now to answer his question, I'm partial to the 3500 stall converter.

[Pat]

MM BKK;

Great post, very informative. Mirrors my experience with the 3500.

Thanks,


Pat

[Local Boy]

^^^+1^^^What he said...Learned alot...Thanks (MM BKK)...ALOHA

[Blackmobile]

Yes again this was very informative. Maybe I can add something After Monday when I get my MM back with a Beefed up tranny and a 3500 stall TC.
Ed

[fastcar]

I think the sentence should read "would YOU suggest".

Now to answer his question, I'm partial to the 3500 stall converter.

Thanks, Silverback. Seems obvious now.

I'm looking forward to Blackmobiles indepth analysis when he gets his 3500 PI TC installed this week.

I'm getting my 4.10s installed this week, and #4 Progress Report should be forthcoming. Hoping for a 14 second timeslip corrected. Oh ya :beer:

Some people are saying the converter is worth .6 seconds. That's A LOT of time. I can't help but wonder if these times are corrected, so that the testing is NOT skewed by changes in pressure, temp. and humidity...

fastcar:burnout:

[Blackmobile]

Thanks, Silverback. Seems obvious now.

I'm looking forward to Blackmobiles indepth analysis when he gets his 3500 PI TC installed this week.

I'm getting my 4.10s installed this week, and #4 Progress Report should be forthcoming. Hoping for a 14 second timeslip corrected. Oh ya :beer:

Some people are saying the converter is worth .6 seconds. That's A LOT of time. I can't help but wonder if these times are corrected, so that the testing is NOT skewed by changes in pressure, temp. and humidity...

fastcar:burnout:

Well I just got the MM back today and "What A Difference". But to start, I didn't get a PI TC, my builder went another route, but it is still a 3500 stall.
The best way I can describe it is, if you don't mind the neck breaking starts,
then the 3500 is for you, but be forewarned, it's a feel not for everybody. But it will put you back in your seat so much that, I now can feel the imprint of the owner's ( who I figured who drove it the most) wallet in the drivers seat.
It is an extreme mod, meaning..........WOW.

[Aren Jay]

I'm confused about this whole Torque Converter thing.

What does it do?

Why doesn't my car idle at 2000+ RPM instead of 500 rpm.

[fastcar]

Well I just got the MM back today and "What A Difference". But to start, I didn't get a PI TC, my builder went another route, but it is still a 3500 stall.
The best way I can describe it is, if you don't mind the neck breaking starts,
then the 3500 is for you, but be forewarned, it's a feel not for everybody. But it will put you back in your seat so much that, I now can feel the imprint of the owner's ( who I figured who drove it the most) wallet in the drivers seat.
It is an extreme mod, meaning..........WOW.

He Black,

OK, the neck-breaking starts are great, when you want them. But supposedly the beauty of the PI is that it DOES NOT STALL all the way unless you mash the throttle. The way you describe it, it sounds like the motor revs to 3500 everytime you start, regardless of how hard you launch.
It's not suppose to be an extreme mod, I didn't think.
I hope you didn't make a mistake by going with another brand. The PI's construction is very unique, and is suppose to give you the best of both worlds.
Can you please explain in detail what your car does, how it behaves, revs, etc, from start and on the highway? Thanks,

fastcar:burnout:

We could use a few comments from other 3500 RPM PI owners...

[fastblackmerc]

I'm confused about this whole Torque Converter thing.

What does it do?

Why doesn't my car idle at 2000+ RPM instead of 500 rpm.

Checkout http://www.converter.com/ for TC info.

[Blackmobile]

He Black,

OK, the neck-breaking starts are great, when you want them. But supposedly the beauty of the PI is that it DOES NOT STALL all the way unless you mash the throttle. The way you describe it, it sounds like the motor revs to 3500 everytime you start, regardless of how hard you launch.
It's not suppose to be an extreme mod, I didn't think.
I hope you didn't make a mistake by going with another brand. The PI's construction is very unique, and is suppose to give you the best of both worlds.
Can you please explain in detail what your car does, how it behaves, revs, etc, from start and on the highway? Thanks,

fastcar:burnout:

We could use a few comments from other 3500 RPM PI owners...

To start it revs up a lot higher than before.
OH, it does roll when powered under 3500 but there is what I would describe as a slush level, stay within it and everything is all good but get up to it or past it and HOLD ON. And for my choice of TC, I just went with the shop that is backing this unit up to 700 ponies.

[MarauderTJA]

To start it revs up a lot higher than before.
OH, it does roll when powered under 3500 but there is what I would describe as a slush level, stay within it and everything is all good but get up to it or past it and HOLD ON. And for my choice of TC, I just went with the shop that is backing this unit up to 700 ponies.

Nail (flash) that puppie and hold on....then you see what the stall convertor does:lol:

[fastcar]

Nail (flash) that puppie and hold on....then you see what the stall convertor does:lol:

Dude, your Marauder looks like it's FRONT WHEEL DRIVE!!!

What a burn out:eek:

fastcar:burnout: