K&N vs. K&N

[GrazniM]

Does anyone know which of the following K&N CAI setups truly performs better for the MM? The series 63 is not ok for CA emissions (but i'm in NY so that's not necessarily a problem) but am seeing different HP and performance gain info, etc, for these depending on where ya look - and I noticed that the series 63 typically costs a bit more than the 57FIPK (the old quandry; does more $$ really mean better?)

I pulled the following details from racepages.com (where they are priced the same):

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD>App:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2004 - 2004 Mercury Marauder</TD></TR><TR><TD>Brand:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: #009933">K&N Cold Air Intake</TD></TR><TR><TD>Part #:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">572563</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Description:</TD><TD>K&N FUEL INJECTION PERFORMANCE KIT, 57 SERIES FIPK, GENERATION 2, COLD AIR INTAKE -- 50 State Legal, Replaces Entire Air Intake Tract And Filter, Reusable Filter Lasts Longer, Produces An Additional 8.66 Horsepower At 6300 RPM, Replacement Filter Part Number RC-4690


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD>App:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2004 - 2004 Mercury Marauder</TD></TR><TR><TD>Brand:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: #009933">K&N Cold Air Intake</TD></TR><TR><TD>Part #:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">631111</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Description:</TD><TD>63 SERIES AIR CHARGER COLD AIR INTAKE -- With Filter, Replaces Entire Factory Intake, Reusable Filter Lasts Longer, Makes More Power, 17.32 Horsepower At 5675 RPM's, Not Street Legal In California, Replacement Filter Part Number RF-1041</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Krytin]

I'd be trying the 63 series based on what you found.
Most people have found that a tune will really net the most gain with any CAI kit. #'s vary in any case.

[magindat]

Buy a JLT for half the money and get horsepower gains right between those two (and a meaner sound, too).

[magindat]

Or buy this:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36253

[MENINBLK]

Does anyone know which of the following K&N CAI setups truly performs better for the MM? The series 63 is not ok for CA emissions (but i'm in NY so that's not necessarily a problem) but am seeing different HP and performance gain info, etc, for these depending on where ya look - and I noticed that the series 63 typically costs a bit more than the 57FIPK (the old quandry; does more $$ really mean better?)

I pulled the following details from racepages.com (where they are priced the same):

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD>App:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2004 - 2004 Mercury Marauder</TD></TR><TR><TD>Brand:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: #009933">K&N Cold Air Intake</TD></TR><TR><TD>Part #:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">572563</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Description:</TD><TD>K&N FUEL INJECTION PERFORMANCE KIT, 57 SERIES FIPK, GENERATION 2, COLD AIR INTAKE -- 50 State Legal, Replaces Entire Air Intake Tract And Filter, Reusable Filter Lasts Longer, Produces An Additional 8.66 Horsepower At 6300 RPM, Replacement Filter Part Number RC-4690


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD>App:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2004 - 2004 Mercury Marauder</TD></TR><TR><TD>Brand:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: #009933">K&N Cold Air Intake</TD></TR><TR><TD>Part #:</TD><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">631111</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top>Description:</TD><TD>63 SERIES AIR CHARGER COLD AIR INTAKE -- With Filter, Replaces Entire Factory Intake, Reusable Filter Lasts Longer, Makes More Power, 17.32 Horsepower At 5675 RPM's, Not Street Legal In California, Replacement Filter Part Number RF-1041</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Don't know where you got your info from.....
Here it is from the horse's mouth.

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=57-2563
This is the EXACT same thing as the 63-1111.
Ask me how I know...

[GrazniM]

Like I mentioned, I was seeing alot of variation in the info - this stuff came from racepages. I checked that K&N link and the Series-57 numbers come up as racepages 63's just like you hinted..... (I'll take the K&N info over racepages :rolleyes:)

Horsepower Gain: 17.32 HP @ 5675 RPM
Type: Gen II
Replacement Filter: RF-1041
CARB Exempt: Yes

the more important thing is when you use the product tool on the K&N site to lookup the 63-1111 you get: No products found, please try your search again

...possibly discontinued, eh?

<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 506556" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>Krytin</TD><TD class=alt2>I'd be trying the 63 series based on what you found.
Most people have found that a tune will really net the most gain with any CAI kit. #'s vary in any case.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The general feel I get on the board is that a custom tune rules when dialing in all these performance components - I think a Lidio or DR tune would be an absolute minimum... im probably going to go with the CAI, Gears (poss DS) and XCAL2 tune in my first pass and control arms/sways on my second ...doing mad reading to try and determine which products delivered the most bang. Dont know any tune shops on the Island (NY).


<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 506557" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>magindat</TD><TD class=alt2>Buy a JLT for half the money and get horsepower gains right between those two (and a meaner sound, too).</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I was looking at the CAI designs and my thinking was very simplistic - big filter element (they all got that), and smoothest possible path to intake. The K&N looks plasticky and all, but it seems to be a single molded piece. The JLT looks nice (and the meaner sound would def be a bonus :D) but I think the path to the intake is a little bumpier - does it really mean anything ....don't know yet.

RE the OEM intake; are all the ridges on the thing and than J-hook-deadend on the underside there to deaden the sound of intake airflow? I can't imagine any other point in creating resistance in the airpath. (Im also not a believer in those aluminium intake vortex-whatever things to assist fuel-air mixing - I think they may accidentally help specific cars that have crappy (sorry, non-optimal) intake designs.....

[GreekGod]

It isn't the shape or bends in the tract that gains or loses hp as much as the cold air part of the intake airstream. The Marauder intake is a very good design, but after observing intake air temps with my ScanGauge and the OEM intake, I can see where they get their 17 hp.

Sal Menella at http://www.powersurgeperformance.net/ is on the Long Island, and he knows his stuff.

[Krytin]

It isn't the shape or bends in the tract that gains or loses hp as much as the cold air part of the intake airstream. The Marauder intake is a very good design, but after observing intake air temps with my ScanGauge and the OEM intake, I can see where they get their 17 hp.

Sal Menella at http://www.powersurgeperformance.net/ is on the Long Island, and he knows his stuff.
What he^^^^said!

[Smokie]

I documented a before and after of a CAI on a dyno and the results can be presented or manipulated (choose your preferred word) in different ways.

I could tell you that it increased maximum hp/tq as follows:
6 rwhp/ 9rwtq.

Equally true would be this: At 3500 rpms.

16 rwhp/18 rwtq.

It is important that you when you compare results you look at the total power curve. Also I feel that the torque is far more important at 3500 rpms than the hp. at 6000 rpms.

[GreekGod]

I documented a before and after of a CAI on a dyno and the results can be presented or manipulated (choose your preferred word) in different ways...

...It is important that you when you compare results you look at the total power curve. Also I feel that the torque is far more important at 3500 rpms than the hp. at 6000 rpms.

I forgot about your dyno test...it sounds like a street driven car might gain even more hp/torque going down the road @ 60mph.

Please post a link to your test...I have been thinking about spending more money on the bottemless money-pit known as a Marauder.

[Smokie]

I forgot about your dyno test...it sounds like a street driven car might gain even more hp/torque going down the road @ 60mph.

Please post a link to your test...I have been thinking about spending more money on the bottemless money-pit known as a Marauder.

I hope you find the info useful:CAI_DYNO (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14370)

[GrazniM]

<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 506993" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>GreekGod</TD><TD class=alt2>It isn't the shape or bends in the tract that gains or loses hp as much as the cold air part of the intake airstream. The Marauder intake is a very good design, but after observing intake air temps with my ScanGauge and the OEM intake, I can see where they get their 17 hp.

Sal Menella at http://www.powersurgeperformance.net/ is on the Long Island, and he knows his stuff.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

What is the temp difference between stock and your CAI? Does the scanguage pick up the temps from the MAF sensor?


<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 507046" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>Smokie</TD><TD class=alt2>I documented a before and after of a CAI on a dyno and the results can be presented or manipulated (choose your preferred word) in different ways.

I could tell you that it increased maximum hp/tq as follows:
6 rwhp/ 9rwtq.

Equally true would be this: At 3500 rpms.

16 rwhp/18 rwtq.

It is important that you when you compare results you look at the total power curve. Also I feel that the torque is far more important at 3500 rpms than the hp. at 6000 rpms.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I agree that more torque at 3500 is more significant than hp at close to the rpm limit. From your test results it looks like you get a pretty consistant increase in both hp & torque in the 3K - 5K rpm range...nice.

[GreekGod]

What is the temp difference between stock and your CAI? Does the scanguage pick up the temps from the MAF sensor?

I agree that more torque at 3500 is more significant than hp at close to the rpm limit. From your test results it looks like you get a pretty consistant increase in both hp & torque in the 3K - 5K rpm range...nice.

The ScanGauge gets all its info. through the OBDII port under the dash, which comes from the on-board Ford processor/ECU/computer.

The temp seems to increase when stopped in traffic, and drops 20 or more degrees when moving. I haven't done enough observations to see how much the benefit is with my stock MM, but I am sure increasing speed reduces the "IAT", until it reaches ambient, and is less influenced by radiator output.

When I get out of warrenty, I have decided to get a CAI. My A$$ dyno is not very sensitive, but can probably detect 17 lb. ft.

[GrazniM]

I believe when the vehicle is moving that the plastic air-dam underneath produces a slight vacuum effect which helps remove heat from the engine bay (the faster you are moving the greater this effect).

Re the scanguage info; the onboard computer (ECU/prc) has to get the temp info from a sensor somewhere - the MAF sensors are one possibility...I don't know if there is another sensor somewhere in the air intake on the throttle-body...

[MENINBLK]

.... Also I feel that the torque is far more important at 3500 rpms than the hp. at 6000 rpms.....

In a 4V engine, you need Horsepower to build torque.
The way the power curve works, the mid point is 5200 rpms.
This is where the Torque and Horsepower meet.
Above 5200 is your max Horsepower, below 5200 is your max Torque.

[MENINBLK]

I believe when the vehicle is moving that the plastic air-dam underneath produces a slight vacuum effect which helps remove heat from the engine bay (the faster you are moving the greater this effect).

Re the scanguage info; the onboard computer (ECU/prc) has to get the temp info from a sensor somewhere - the MAF sensors are one possibility...I don't know if there is another sensor somewhere in the air intake on the throttle-body...

Intake Air Temperature (IAT) comes from the Mass Air Flow.
Ambient Air Temperature comes from the sensor right behind your grille.