Cry02 SC Intercooler Spray Kit

[Glenn]

A new product has been recently been released by DEI (Design Engineering www.designengineering.com (http://www.designengineering.com)) for Trilogy type SC blowers with air - water intercooling. DEI has designed a way to cryogenically lower the incoming air charge with the new CryO2 intercooler spray kit. Using the super-cooling properties of carbon dioxide, DEI has designed a kit that vents C02 directly into the cooling fins of your intercooler, increasing the intercoolers efficiency by up to 50%.

The web site is lacking in good information on the kit and what it can actually do, i.e. increase in HP. Does anyone have any information on this intercooler spray kit and what kind of HP increase one can expect? It does look interesting. but what are the expected results????

Glenn

[sailsmen]

Another Trilogy owner tried a similar or the same product with no improvement.

I beleive this was due to the IAT sensor location and software.

I beleive the new IAT location and software would enable this system to work.

[RCSignals]

Very interesting. Looks like though it isn't a full time system?

[Zack]

Another Trilogy owner tried a similar or the same product with no improvement.

I beleive this was due to the IAT sensor location and software.

I beleive the new IAT location and software would enable this system to work.

You beat me to it.

Since the IAT measures the ambient air, not the super-cooled air, the PCM will never add timing appropriately and will result in minimal, if any performance gains.

The only way this would work on a Trilogy car, is to spray the intercooler on a dyno and have a custom tune for the CRYO2.
But keep in mind, the IC coolant temps will never be the same in the real world, so your tune might have too much spark, or not enough depending on conditions.

Dont waste your money.
Instead, pick up your phone and spend the nickel calling JB to ask him where the IAT2 kit he promised is at.

[BruteForce]

ask him where the IAT2 kit he promised is at.

My Trilogy has the IAT2. :rock:

[sailsmen]

Spray the IAT and use race fuel!

[RCSignals]

My Trilogy has the IAT2. :rock:

mine as well :)

[RCSignals]

...............
Instead, pick up your phone and spend the nickel calling JB to ask him where the IAT2 kit he promised is at.

It was released a while back

[O's Fan Rich]

A couple of years ago I was approached by a company that developed, or actually adapted a cooling system for liquid cooled Ford supercharged setups, primarily designed for Cobras and Lightnings. Since the intercooling setup on the Trilogy Marauders is very simular to the Cobra setup, it was thought it might help out. Their initial research data on a Cobra with this prototype system appreciated a 45 degree drop in coolant temps in fluid entering the intercooler/supercharger. For anyone that knows anything about coolant temps in the supercharger as related to performance as a result knows that is a BIG deal. The Marauder setup was yet another shot at prototyping a system that would yield results for liquid intercooled S/Ced cars. This setup eliminates the single biggest problem with some other CO2 sytems that vent the CO2 on the heat exchanger directly, the problem with that setup is you run a risk of injesting some CO2 into your air intake which is very bad. I plumbed some temp sending units to monitor the coolant temperature as it leaves the supercharger, very hot, and the coolant temperature as it leaves the CO2 cooling unit, which should be cooler and goes directly to the supercharger to cool intake air better.

I have done a lot of research on different cooling methods, from old fashioned ice bath containers in the trunk, to tapping the freon sytem to chill coolant, to using CO2. Of those top 3 methods, the CO2 seemed safer, less invasive than tapping the AC system, cheaper, etc. Of the various CO2 systems, I eliminated the "spraying" CO2 thru the heat exchanger, to much of a risk of sucking in the CO2 in your intake, leaving the system we are trying to modify to the Eaton equipped Marauder. The cooling occurs when the liquid CO2 is sprayed into the coolant chiller. This chiller is a long cylindrical tube with smaller capilary tubes running thru it. The hot coolant flows thru these capilary tubes. The CO2 is pumped into the larger cylinder, and surrounds the smaller caplilary tubes containing hot coolant. The CO2 hits the hot coolant flowing thru the unit, and becomes CO2 gas, which is vented safely away from the air intake side of the motor compartment. The freshly chilled coolant is then run thru the intercooler mounted to the Eaton so you have cooler charge air.

It should be mentioned that CO2 is redily available at welding supply shops, medical suppy centers, beverage companies, and any supplier that deals with gasses. It is safe to handle, not explosive, and dirt cheap. A 10 lb bottle costs $7 to $10 to fill. It cant hurt your car, just make it run like it does on a crisp fall or spring day, when it is 80 degrees out!

To test the setup, I used a Dakota Digital water temp gauge with two temp sensor units plumbed into the intercooling system. The guage tells me BOTH the temp of the coolant coming straight from the intercooling unit in the intake manifold, AND the temp of the coolant going into the intercooler after being cooled by the heat exchanger and my cooling unit. I have tested the system, and the best results were from the Fun Ford Weekend in Norwalk a couple of years ago. I have noticed that the Trilogy intercooling system is VERY effective! Norwalk was very hot and humid, and the intercooler maintained a very average ambiant temperature for the intercooler itself. Under hard use and wide open throttle, the hot coolant never got higher than 121 degrees, on the other hand, with only the heat exchanger being used, it managed to drop that 121 degrees to about 105 degrees for the coolant going back into the intercooler. After engauging the prototype cooling system in the staging lanes, that coolant temp was dropped even further to appx 89 degrees. That is a big deal....
It would appear that just the stock heat exchanger alone drops the intercharger coolant temps 10-20 degrees depending on the weather, the prototype CO2 cooling mod appears to be able to drop it by another 10-20 degrees on top of that. This testing is far from rocket science testing, but Dakota Digital indicates the gauge and sending units are +/- 1 to 2 degrees in this temperature range. I am positive that the setup helps the car run better in hot and humid weather, in essance on a 90 degree day at the track, the car will run as if it was 60 degrees out. I for one can actually feel the difference it makes.
Just be sure to steer away from ANY CO2 cooling system that sprays the CO2 directly on the intercooler. If your engine ingests any of the CO2 gas, it could create a problem with combustion and damage the motor. At the very least it will cause the car to shudder and stall, losing power as it inhales the CO2 gas. Trust me, I did my homework on this mod a couple of years ago.









__________________
2003 Mercury Marauder Black 300A.
512 RWHP 496 RW Torque @ 13.5 lbs Boost.
Trilogy Eaton Intercooled Supercharger #0002.
11.844 @ 115.99 MPH

[O's Fan Rich]

I am the Trilogy owner that he is refering to. He apparently didnt read, or is incapable of reading, the threads that described the power pickup. Basically, the initial setup yielded results that were best appreciated at the track. Simply put, when we were at the track which was 102 degrees, I was running much faster than the other Trilogy cars. In fact, my timeslips were nearly identical to the slips I produced at the same track, 2 months earlier, when the temp at the track was 65 degrees. I would call that far from "no improvement". As I said before, the setup allows you to lower your intercooler coolant temperatures, which lower your charge air for the supercharger. Used properly, you can run as if the temperature was 40-45 degrees cooler than it really is. On a cool fall night, the temperature was 65, after using the system, my coolant temp was a staggering 37 degrees, and I ran the best time the car has ever produced. I think it gave me an edge when I raced and beat the Ford GT a couple of years back.
It just isnt a full time all the time setup. You are liminted by tank size and usage, just like nitrous. I still keep a full tank in the trunk, ready to go...a quick purge, and I am ready to zap away 45 degrees from the current outside temp! Anyone can tell you how differently the Trilogy Marauder runs when it is 100 degrees out, and when it is 55 degrees out, its much more snappy and responsive. These are the results I have documented.


Someone please cut and past the above response back to the thread on MM.net please. You can see how fair they are when one cant even respond back to an obvious slam when you are "banned". Thanks.

[Zack]

Are you freakin kidding me?

Thats plain pathetic

And to think he just posted he hasn't browsed mm.net in months.

What a loser.
Cut and paste that for me Rich.

[sailsmen]

MI2;

"For what its worth, I did extensive research on this concept over a year ago. I discovered that people were having problems with this very kit. Everyone I talked to, including distributors and salesmen told me it was junk, and could hurt your motor if your car ingested the co2. When I talked to a company rep, they told me that that was just a nasty rumor, and there was no way a car could suck the co2 gas into the motor via the air intake. What a bunch of Bullstuff. I did some further checking to find a co2 system that does not vent inside the engine compartment. The results were good, perhaps more noticable on a supercharged car. Read my thread on it."

Design Engineering is the kit that was asked about in the thread that the above quote is referring to.

The same author that asked to be copied and paste above wrote what is posted above.

Thread - http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17743&highlight=cooling+intercooler

[RCSignals]

I am the Trilogy owner that he is refering to. He apparently didnt read, or is incapable of reading, the threads that described the power pickup. .............................. ...............

Someone please cut and past the above response back to the thread on MM.net please. You can see how fair they are when one cant even respond back to an obvious slam when you are "banned". Thanks.


Who is being refered to here? Sailsmen or Zack?


Another Trilogy owner tried a similar or the same product with no improvement.......


You beat me to it.

Since the IAT measures the ambient air, not the super-cooled air, the PCM will never add timing appropriately and will result in minimal, if any performance gains.

The only way this would work on a Trilogy car, is to spray the intercooler on a dyno and have a custom tune for the CRYO2.
But keep in mind, the IC coolant temps will never be the same in the real world, so your tune might have too much spark, or not enough depending on conditions.
.........................


At some point this all has to stop. This is absurd.



On another note, thanks for the good info Rich.

[sailsmen]

MI2 apparently tested or researched a system by Design Engineering that he did not like.

MI2 apparently has a different system on his vehicle that he does like.

The original post was about a Design Engineering system.

We also know that inorder to fully benefit from a system that cools the air the IAT has to be located in a place where it can read it and the software has to be able to respond.

The internet is a difficult place to communicate.

[RCSignals]

It's the constant accusation of "slaming' that has to stop. There was none that I could see.

We are a very small community, us Marauder owners, we can't afford this 'wedge' or the constant petty sniping.

We should be helping each other without ulterior motive.

[Joe Walsh]

It's the constant accusation of "slaming' that has to stop. There was none that I could see.

We are a very small community, us Marauder owners, we can't afford this 'wedge' or the constant petty sniping.

We should be helping each other without ulterior motive.

Yep!

Gettin' really tired of this B.S.

Both sites are 'devolving' into the same petty crap that pervades every other car enthusiast website.

The FORMER lack of the B.S. and constant slamming is what made the Marauder community so great.

[RCSignals]

Yep!

Gettin' really tired of this B.S.

Both sites are 'devolving' into the same petty crap that pervades every other car enthusiast website.

The FORMER lack of the B.S. and constant slamming is what made the Marauder community so great.

I wish i could say FORMER lack of B.S. because it certainly existed before, and was part of what contributed to our current situation.
It's become worse though, and has to stop.
Where are the calmer heads?

[O's Fan Rich]

Who is being refered to here? Sailsmen or Zack?






At some point this all has to stop. This is absurd.



On another note, thanks for the good info Rich.

Wasn't my car..... you Guy's do understand that, right?
He asked to have it posted here to provide the info he had. He can't post it himself, but I'm sure he can read things here, therefore he knew there was a need to have it posted.

Personally, if I were a regular track guy, I'd look into this C02 stuff. It makes sense to me.

There is a certain sensitivity to some peoples posts, Zack's for instance. There's history there for sure. This leads to the thoughts of "slamming" even if there is just a difference of opinion. Like the dog that bit you, you'll always look at him sideways wonder what's his real objective.
It's not always what you say but how you say it. We can have some fun with it, or take this stuff to seriously and get all pissed off at each other. Heck, this ain't real life.... it's just car crap.

[blackf0rk]

I had the system installed on my 02 Turbocharged Impala. The company said the kit came with everything to make it work; they failed to inform me that you need to buy either the intake bulb, or the sprayer bar. The car was sold before I was able to test it.

Also, injecting C02 into your intake will just extinguish the "fire" and your engine will die.

[Aren Jay]

Would a TEC or multi TEC setup with cooling side on the intercooler yeild any improvement? This is one of the systems that Computer overclockers are using to keep everything cold. All it would need is either a heat source or and electrical source.

http://www.tetech.com/modules/

[RCSignals]

Wasn't my car..... you Guy's do understand that, right?
He asked to have it posted here to provide the info he had. He can't post it himself, but I'm sure he can read things here, therefore he knew there was a need to have it posted.

Personally, if I were a regular track guy, I'd look into this C02 stuff. It makes sense to me.

There is a certain sensitivity to some peoples posts, Zack's for instance. There's history there for sure. This leads to the thoughts of "slamming" even if there is just a difference of opinion. Like the dog that bit you, you'll always look at him sideways wonder what's his real objective.
It's not always what you say but how you say it. We can have some fun with it, or take this stuff to seriously and get all pissed off at each other. Heck, this ain't real life.... it's just car crap.


Yes, i knew it wasn't your car.

I agree this system makes sense for a regualr track guy. Those temp differences are very significant.

and yes, it's not only what one says and how they say it, but also how one 'hears' what has been said. Everyone has to get over all this pissy stuff.

now Rich, how about posting your newest projects with pictures here as well? Please.

[Bradley G]

So someone tried to mod their Marauder, with some new gizmo.
Maybe something to drop intake temps allowing more power?Sounds reasonable
Works? Junk? Risky?
That's a fine reason to spew nastiness.