One of my air bags leaks down when parked. Help?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Hi guys, one minor but annoying thing that I have noticed is that my driver's side rear air bag leaks down slowly when the car is parked. The other side does not leak down, so you will notice after a while that the car slants to one side. When you start the car and the suspension pumps up, it more or less levels out.

When I first got this car and realized it had the infamous Ford air bags, I was worried that they were going to cause a problem. Surprise! I had images of Lincolns with leaky air bags that would lay the frame against the ground after they were parked.

Nooooooo! Since it happens when the car is parked, the solenoid at the air bag is closed, so the leak has got to be closer to the air bag (or the solenoid is leaking down? can this happen?)

[Grifter]

how far down is it leaning? It could just be a bad shock.
Mine had a bad drivers rear shock and it would sag almost 2" with the bags deflated to 'resting' height.

[Raudermaster]

+1 on the bad shock, but you only have 26k on it, so I doubt it's bad already. Go drive around, come back and park, and lean under the car and see if you can hear air leaking out.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I spent soooo many hours under the car working on my ring and pinion install (which took several complete tear downs) and I didn't hear any air leaking

However a small leak really won't be audible. I have had slow leaks in tires etc and you could never hear it.

If you get under the car and squeeze the air bags, I thought the driver's side air bag felt softer than the pass side. It also looked visibly less inflated. I am pretty sure it is the air bag. The ride height levels out as soon as the air pump kicks in, but after being parked for an hour the driver's side has dropped down noticeably and the car leans.

Thanks for the advice on the shock, I know a shock shouldn't really affect ride height statically but I will change the shock just for the hell of it anyway. Maybe I'll see if anyone on the board has some low mileage stock shocks if they swapped out to something better.

This air suspension makes me want to convert to the cop car coils in the rear w/ no air bags...

[Grifter]

the shocks do affect the sitting height. the air bags deflate automatically once the car is off, then the shocks are left to support more of the weight of the car once the bags get to a certain point. If you have a weak shock, it wont sit as high. if it was a blown/leaky bag, it would be sitting on the axle bumpstops in a very short amount of time.

easy test for a leaky bag. run the car a short time until the pump has filled the rear bags. Flip the air ride switch off before you shut off the car. Note the rear height. Leave the car overnight with the switch off, and check it in the AM. If the car drops, leaky bag/solenoid. If it stays the same height, weak shock.

[carfixer]

Shocks do not affect ride height. They only dampen motion. Only exceptions on our car would be if someone installed air shocks or you had a seized shock (you would know by the ride if it was seized). The car is supported by the springs only.

Get a spray bottle and put some soapy water in it. Spray the air spring concentrating on fold area and check for bubbles.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Yeah I agree that the shock can't support the weight of the car, it just is not possible. A shock damps motion but will allow the car to sit at whatever level it wants to. I will check around the fold of the air bag. This car only has 26k though, what I am experiencing has got to be a factory defect and not a wear problem.

If a solenoid is leaky will it let the air bag deflate by backfeeding into the system with the car off?

If I let the car sit overnight w/ the air ride off the level will drop. Like I said, with the switch off and the rear wheels hanging off the ground doing the gear swap, I noticed that the suspect air bag looked less inflated and it felt softer to the touch pushing on it. I just have to figure out where and why it is leaking so I can replace the offending part.

[Grifter]

Fine. LOL you all can not believe me that shocks affect ride hight. Whatever.
Shocks exert vertical force onto the chassis. remove the vertical force, more weight will be resting on the airbag/coil spring therefore compressing it more.
There is a reason when you buy new shocks they come with that strap over them keeping compressed. cut that strap outside of the car. try to compress the shock by hand. Not going to do it. Now grab a blown shock. sure enough, you can compress that fairly easily by hand.

VicsEvilBrother's case may very well NOT be a blown shock, and thats fine. But the fact is that shocks do affect static resting right height.

[jgc61sr2002]

Shocks do not affect ride height. They only dampen motion. Only exceptions on our car would be if someone installed air shocks or you had a seized shock (you would know by the ride if it was seized). The car is supported by the springs only.

Get a spray bottle and put some soapy water in it. Spray the air spring concentrating on fold area and check for bubbles.

What he said^^^^^^.

[larryo340]

Fine. LOL you all can not believe me that shocks affect ride hight. Whatever.
Shocks exert vertical force onto the chassis. remove the vertical force, more weight will be resting on the airbag/coil spring therefore compressing it more.
There is a reason when you buy new shocks they come with that strap over them keeping compressed. cut that strap outside of the car. try to compress the shock by hand. Not going to do it. Now grab a blown shock. sure enough, you can compress that fairly easily by hand.

VicsEvilBrother's case may very well NOT be a blown shock, and thats fine. But the fact is that shocks do affect static resting right height.

I agree with ^^ when parked , which is what I think he means

[JACook]

There is a reason when you buy new shocks they come with that strap over them keeping compressed. cut that strap outside of the car. try to compress the shock by hand. Not going to do it. Now grab a blown shock. sure enough, you can compress that fairly easily by hand.

What you're describing is a gas-pressurized shock. There are two styles of gas-pressurized shocks,
low-pressure, and high-pressure. However, with either style, the purpose of the pressure has
nothing to do with holding up the car, but rather, to keep the shock oil from aerating. Any effect
on ride height is a side-effect, and is directly related to the pressure of the gas inside the shock,
acting on the cross-sectional area of the shock absorber's push rod. The pressure exerted by a
high-pressure shock can affect ride height, but-

When I replaced the non-gas shocks on my '65 Mustang with high-pressure KYBs, the car did end
up sitting about 1/4" higher. But my '65 Mustang weighs less than 2700lbs, compared to my MM's
~4400lbs. You do the math.

BTW, gas-pressurized shocks come strapped for shipping reasons, not because they're impossible
to compress by hand. Not gonna do it? I've never installed a gas-pressurized shock that I couldn't
compress by hand, and I've installed plenty...

[JohnE]

If the parked height is different between the right and left, this is not shocks.


There is a solenoid on the top of each airbag, with an o-ring sealing it. Normally another solenoid at the compressor is used to release air. You are having a leak. I suggest filling a spray bottle with soap and water and find the leak source. Good chance its out the bottom of the bag if its the bag or out where the solenoid is.


John

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Fine. LOL you all can not believe me that shocks affect ride hight. Whatever.
Shocks exert vertical force onto the chassis. remove the vertical force, more weight will be resting on the airbag/coil spring therefore compressing it more.
There is a reason when you buy new shocks they come with that strap over them keeping compressed. cut that strap outside of the car. try to compress the shock by hand. Not going to do it. Now grab a blown shock. sure enough, you can compress that fairly easily by hand.Yeah see here is the problem with your logic. A shock at STEADY STATE will not exert any force on the chassis. All a shock is, is a damper, that will resist a change in position using its hydraulics. Once It has settled in there will be no resisting force. The force you are talking about a shock exerting new out of the box is at most what, maybe 25-50 lbs? You can push it back down with your hand. That kind of force can't prop a car up. I will check the bag later today. The solenoid with the O ring is up at the top of the air bag -- can I get to that without taking the air bag out?

[Wags]

Check the bottom of the bags. That's where mine was. I have been through 2 compressors, and a set of air bags. The life span of air bags (what I've been told from Ford) is about 80 to 100k miles, but they said that it usually is 100 to 120k. I replaced both mine after cutting one.

Wags

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Wags, I have 26k miles on my car. I am going to check the bags but I sure as heck hope they are not leaking at my mileage.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I had an idea, just for the sake of science and I'm sure a few people would be interested in the results. I am going to swap my rear shocks side to side and see if it leans to the other side. I'll report back.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

It turns out the air suspension is not to blame. Although I will probably have to eat my hat, it looks like it may be a shock. What direction I turn when I am parking seems to affect if the car sits level or not. I haven't had a chance to swap the shocks out yet but I will. The ride height incongruity is not bad but it bothers me.

[RCSignals]

Your car doesn't like you. It's that simple

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Or I have higher standards than a production line Ford is meeting. But thanks for the snide remark just the same.

[BruteForce]

Or you're just whinier than most. :bigcry:

[JMan]

It turns out the air suspension is not to blame. Although I will probably have to eat my hat, it looks like it may be a shock. What direction I turn when I am parking seems to affect if the car sits level or not. I haven't had a chance to swap the shocks out yet but I will. The ride height incongruity is not bad but it bothers me.

I had two shocks fail and lock in odd positions. My left front locked "down" raising the right rear of the car (Hydroformed is tough). My left rear would lock "up" and cause the RAS to adjust. Once it shook loose, it would regulate itself again. And people wonder why I have issues with Tokico shocks. They work great - when they work!!!

J

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Thank you Jman for being one of the rare useful replies.

[RCSignals]

Or I have higher standards than a production line Ford is meeting. But thanks for the snide remark just the same.

Mine wasn't wasn't snide. Lighten up Evil.

[RCSignals]

Or I have higher standards than a production line Ford is meeting.

You really should consider selling this car, before it beats you to death

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

If someone wants to pay me $18,500 for it they can have it. Otherwise I will forge ahead. The car is immaculate inside and out, 26k miles, has new tires on the front, new rotors and pads all around, the TSB axle replacement has already been done 3k miles ago, and a polished "spare" with a new tire on it as well. I think I need a german made car to not find build quality issues with.

[RCSignals]

If someone wants to pay me $18,500 for it they can have it. Otherwise I will forge ahead. The car is immaculate inside and out, 26k miles, has new tires on the front, new rotors and pads all around, the TSB axle replacement has already been done 3k miles ago, and a polished "spare" with a new tire on it as well. I think I need a german made car to not find build quality issues with.

Sounds like a good deal for someone, put it up in the classifieds and see what happens.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

It sounds like anyone on this board who doesn't already have an MM doesn't have one because they don't want to spend the extra $$ to come up from a regular panther. There are cheaper MM's for sale if you settle for more abuse and higher mileage than mine, so I have been hesitant to post it here and deal w/ people lowballing. I might stick it on ebay w/ a reserve and see what happens, they seem to get top $ there because of the extra exposure on this particular low production # car.

[RCSignals]

Give it as much exposure as you can. eBay has been successful for some people, give it lots of good pictures and a readable description.
See Wes Chain's eBay ad for his Navigator as a good example of a well presented eBay auction.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I do a lot of ebaying and I'm a good writer. I also just did a photo shoot the other day when I had just washed the car and it was nice out. I'm ready to go if need be.

[BruteForce]

Mine wasn't wasn't snide. Lighten up Evil.

Mine *was* so disregard RCSignals' advise. :D

[larryo340]

. I think I need a german made car to not find build quality issues with.

I take it you haven't spent any time in a german made car service dept??

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I was being sarcastic.

[Bradley G]

So are you going to replace, the leaking air bag? Forget the low mileage, age, is our enemy too!

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

The air bag is not leaking, I'm a moron. I was trying to come up with a reason why the car does not sit as perfectly level as I'd like (the reason being it is a mass produced car that people aren't supposed to be taking a tape measure to when they park it, I suppose). I am noticing what a lot of other people have noticed, that this car does not sit dead level if you measure it at all 4 corners, it's just the way it's going to be. The deviation is about a half inch. If I keep the car I am going to shim the front spring on the low side, because I am crazy. There's nothing wrong with anything on the car, I think I need my head examined though.

[larryo340]

stupid question here:
Are you aware that after the car is turned off the air suspension system will vent some pressure??
Measuring with key off will give eratic readings.
When started and drivers door closed system will turn on and level car to specs.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Yeah but side to side isn't individually controlled on these cars, there is just one (off center) ride height sensor. Airing up and down maintains the same slight skewness.

[Bradley G]

The Margins Ford deems "normal", is quite a bit. On the Linclon Navigators, it was 3/4" before they would try any fix. My buddy has a 2004 4X4 F-150 FX4 several inches lower, than a comparable truck, he is beside himself, Ford won't do anything to make it the same height as others like it. but I regress.
Yeah but side to side isn't individually controlled on these cars, there is just one (off center) ride height sensor. Airing up and down maintains the same slight skewness.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Yeah it's just crappy build quality, I complained to the dealer about it too and they were not concerned.

[RCSignals]

Can someone list vehicles that do sit dead level please.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

My Acura was level to within 1/8" max deviation from any corner. That is close enough for me. More than 1/4" is easily detectable unless you aren't looking (or your head isn't level, then a skewed car probably looks straight). 1/4" deviation on a mass produced passenger car is probably normal. 1/2" or more is getting up there. It all depends on how high your standards are. My 1977 Camaro is level to within 1/4" side to side, front and rear, and it is old and shoddy Detroit at its best.

You might think your question was rhetorical but I do check these things... I'm an engineer so I like measuring.

[RCSignals]

I was serious about my question. Curious to know.

considering all possible variables I'd think 1/8" variance is pretty near perfect.

[1of327]

I just think that this fellow" Vic Evil Brother" is just an analytical individual...much like those that paly Dungeons and dragons or fantacy Land games, and surfing chat room in their mothers basement.

Sorry, some people that knock the car , just offend me.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

just offend me.


That's because you're crazy. Look at you, sitting in an online forum about fixing a car, passing personal judgement on someone and feeling emotional about a friekin car, over tech questions. I build engines and do body and paint work. I do lots of hands on stuff, I am outside most of my free time.

I don't dislike the car at all as a whole. That doesn't mean I don't try to tweak things to improve them. That's the sprit of innovation, my friend. Some people supercharge their Marauder, because it is too slow for their liking from the factory. Does that mean they dislike the car? Nope. I choose to try to tweak little things like ride height, to make me happy. Does that mean I dislike the car for not being quite level from the factory? No. Nothing that I ask is "bashing" the Marauder. It is only "bashing" when some overly emotional people seem to take it personally. Don't take car tech questions personally, they are not meant to be.

Seriously. I don't understand why someone who likes to improve the fit and finish of their car poses a threat to some of you guys, it is really confusing to me. So I measure my car with a tape measure when it's on level ground. Is that really that threatening? If I hated a car I wouldn't care enough to do such things.

I am sorry some of you guys love your cars so much that you can't be helpful when I ask tech questions. That is the opposite of promoting good feelings about this car. Congratulations.

[1of327]

consider me corrected

[RCSignals]

I wonder if you could add a second ride height sensor to be able to adjust each side individually?
I guess that might need two compressors.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

That would work. I'm sure you could use one compressor, but you'd need independently controlled solenoids to shut one and let the compressor run with the other open, to inflate one side.

[JohnE]

The front and rear anti-roll bars and there mounts have a lot to do with the rear differential height. Also, are you keeping a passenger in the driver seat when measuring? The computer updates the height more often when running. Another factor is the actual weight of both sides.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I have checked with and without passenger, with engine running. The sway bar mounts have been inspected and the bushings preloaded to spec per the FSM. I have no cargo in the trunk except the spare, which is pretty well centered.

[larryo340]

Not for nothing, but I don't get why the ride height is important when car is parked and off. As long as it is ok when car is running is what's important here.
To me it's like asking why the tires have a bulge at the ground, and what can I do to eliminate it ? Buy bias-ply tires!!....lol

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Did you read my above post? WITH ENGINE RUNNING. It's a moot point though. Our air bags can not level side to side. So if the car is slanted off, it will be slanted on (unless something is screwed up with shocks or control arms binding), just at an overall higher height.

[TCBO1]

Hey, I just wanted to let ya'll know... this was an AWESOME thread... we just got our Marauder and low and behold, we are having the exact same problem, on the exact same side!

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Surfr, I'm glad you can appreciate the TECHNICAL VALIDITY of my thread. Some morons just want to BS at me that my complaints against their sacred car are not allowed. It looks like it's just one of those "that's the way it's gonna be" kinda things, and that the build quality is to blame. If you really want to go nuts you can probably have a custom spring shim made for the left front (you can probably shim on top of the air bag too, but I haven't looked yet). You should never have to shim side to side like this, but ... I know GM back in the 80s had complaints about one side sitting lower on a whole batch of trucks/vans they made, and their solution was to shim the springs.

[larryo340]

Hi guys, one minor but annoying thing that I have noticed is that my driver's side rear air bag leaks down slowly when the car is parked. The other side does not leak down, so you will notice after a while that the car slants to one side. When you start the car and the suspension pumps up, it more or less levels out.



Did you read my above post? WITH ENGINE RUNNING. It's a moot point though. Our air bags can not level side to side. So if the car is slanted off, it will be slanted on (unless something is screwed up with shocks or control arms binding), just at an overall higher height.

funny how your first post states "when you start the car and the suspension pumps up, it more or less levels out"

then your quote above in caps "WITH ENGINE RUNNING"
so which is it? or are you not sure.

Good luck with the sale of the car, I'm sure it'll go to someone who will enjoy it.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

No it doesn't really level out, I thought it might (wishful thinking) but no dice. I'm not in a hurry to sell unless I have a motivated buyer, the car is a fun car but I could put the money to better use in a CD and drive one of my other cars instead. I don't know why you guys have to leave these one liners about not enjoying the car blah blah you don't bow to the altar of the almighty marauder like I do blah blah, who cares. That's your life, not mine (thankfully, worshipping a car is not for me). Go watch some soap operas if you like bad drama. I'm feeling like I've walked into a room full of old ladies lately around here.

[larryo340]

No it doesn't really level out, I thought it might (wishful thinking) but no dice. I'm not in a hurry to sell unless I have a motivated buyer, the car is a fun car but I could put the money to better use in a CD and drive one of my other cars instead. I don't know why you guys have to leave these one liners about not enjoying the car blah blah you don't bow to the altar of the almighty marauder like I do blah blah, who cares. That's your life, not mine. Go watch some soap operas if you like bad drama.
No drama just plain logic, if you don't like it sell it, and move on.:wave:
I don't think I'm alone in thinking you won't be missed.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I like the god damn car, I am just improving it. Do you need a neon sign with it spelled out for you? I'm surprised you don't yell at the supercharged guys that they must not "like" their marauder enough if they feel the need to change it. YOU DON'T EVEN DRIVE A MARAUDER AND YOU ARE ON A MARAUDER BOARD. Nobody gives you crap for that, why are you giving me crap? You're a Marauder bystander. At least I am in the game.

[RCSignals]

Evil, no one is against modifications or improvements. In fact properly presented most people here will be all over them.
In your case it is how you present yourself and your findings, it comes across as antagonistic, not only toward owners of the Marauder, but the car itself.
When you get a response you don't like, you resort to insults and name calling, showing an arrogance and haughty aire, which only escalates peoples response to you.

This is the 'technical' forum, but a little lightheartedness has always been a part of it.

[1of327]

I really think that you Higher than thou mentality has caused your welcome to be worn out...I can say that I do worship my car, as do most of us here, hence the creation of this community. I myself hate ford as a company that it has turned out to be, but I love the cars. It is a good product. I hope you do seel that GOD DAMN CAR, and find someone that finally appreciates it. I sure as hell won't miss you!!

[1of327]

No drama just plain logic, if you don't like it sell it, and move on.:wave:
I don't think I'm alone in thinking you won't be missed.

I'm cool with your GM...screw that guy.

[Bradley G]

I never looked that close, to see if one side, sits higher. I did however, invest in a bunch of other stuff . I have never enjoyed any vehicle, as the Marauder. My ride height compressor, makes ten time as much noise, as the wifes GMQ. That is a little annoying. But like Vic Brother said, "maybe, that's what it's going to be like" enjoy the ride! don't go away! Their are mean people everywhere!

[larryo340]

I'm cool with your GM...screw that guy.
thanks much,
when my situation changes in the future I will find my Marauder :D

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Bradley G, trust me I won't go away because of a few people who can't be objective and want to give me crap. I am putting them on ignore, since they have proven quite clearly that they have nothing useful to add on this board. I can see why Zack has ignore listed people, some folks really detract from what can be an otherwise great community on here. There are too many people who add great information to get bogged down with other people's crap. These guys want to complain about my responses to their posts being antagonistic, but the plain and simple truth is that I wouldn't have to lash back at people if they didn't provoke me in the first place. Look at how this post started, I was asking tech questions. There is no way that tech questions turn into bashing without their totally unnecessary input. I have never had to use an ignore feature on a board before, and I am on a lot of varied car forums. Thanks guys for being the first to make it necessary.

I'm sure with the high gas prices that a big fuel inefficient car is not going to be a quick sell (not that I really want to see this car go anyway) so I will continue to enjoy the car for what it is, unless someone shows up cash in hand and must have it more than me. See ya on the board! I have a lot of good pictures of me using a Rotunda tool to set up gears that I am going to post up in my other thread to bring it back from some bashing-ness

[RCSignals]

That would work. I'm sure you could use one compressor, but you'd need independently controlled solenoids to shut one and let the compressor run with the other open, to inflate one side.

Apparently the 'Air Ride' suspension system does allow for varying the amount of air applied side to side. Ours isn't 'Air Ride' brand obviously, but a similar strategy could probably be adapted to the Marauder air spring system.

[Muffrauder]

I bet the guys at the local exhaust shop just "love" you. Any one that picky,.:shake:



The air bag is not leaking, I'm a moron. I was trying to come up with a reason why the car does not sit as perfectly level as I'd like (the reason being it is a mass produced car that people aren't supposed to be taking a tape measure to when they park it, I suppose). I am noticing what a lot of other people have noticed, that this car does not sit dead level if you measure it at all 4 corners, it's just the way it's going to be. The deviation is about a half inch. If I keep the car I am going to shim the front spring on the low side, because I am crazy. There's nothing wrong with anything on the car, I think I need my head examined though.

[Bradley G]

As Someone else stated, Now that these Marauders are approaching five years old, many new prospects are entering the site. As the community grows/ages, it also evolves. Their was once a different flavor in the air, that may or may not , restore. Just be tolerant to the quick lash out, of name calling, as people get warmed up to each other. If you knee JERK!, it brings you to the same level, as the derrogatory poster. Stay in the frame you are at, this forum needs the detail oriented folks too. I have made many friends and lost many friends, due to such shenagans. Be cool, love your Marauder, despite its faults.Thank you for the kind words!
Bradley G, trust me I won't go away because of a few people who can't be objective and want to give me crap. I am putting them on ignore, since they have proven quite clearly that they have nothing useful to add on this board. I can see why Zack has ignore listed people, some folks really detract from what can be an otherwise great community on here. There are too many people who add great information to get bogged down with other people's crap. These guys want to complain about my responses to their posts being antagonistic, but the plain and simple truth is that I wouldn't have to lash back at people if they didn't provoke me in the first place. Look at how this post started, I was asking tech questions. There is no way that tech questions turn into bashing without their totally unnecessary input. I have never had to use an ignore feature on a board before, and I am on a lot of varied car forums. Thanks guys for being the first to make it necessary.

I'm sure with the high gas prices that a big fuel inefficient car is not going to be a quick sell (not that I really want to see this car go anyway) so I will continue to enjoy the car for what it is, unless someone shows up cash in hand and must have it more than me. See ya on the board! I have a lot of good pictures of me using a Rotunda tool to set up gears that I am going to post up in my other thread to bring it back from some bashing-ness

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Muffrauder I weld and do all my own exhaust work so that's not a problem. The less reliant I have to be on questionable outside work the better. At least if I F something up I have no one but myself to blame. That works better for me. Thanks.

Bradley, thanks. I'm certainly not losing sleep over the "birds of a feather" type on this board, they are what they are. They are going to have to put up with me sticking around, I am going to keep the car. I decided driving around tonight that since I own the car outright, and I am making enough money to be saving a lot of it while still having some fun, that it really doesn't need to go. I was just jumping the gun trying to see how much money I could put together to save for a house down payment, but since that won't be happening in the next year or two, the amount I'd net from selling the MM and driving an older cheaper car isn't really going to be worth the hassle. Plus the wheels on the Marauder just look too good to settle for something less equipped.

I'm going to investigate the possibility of a sticking Tokico giving my weird slight ride height issues. Sometimes when I park it looks level, a lot of the time it is not. I'm going to swap them out w/ KYBs and see what happens. If I still have the slant (the front especially, which is just as un level as the rear) and I have verified that the front coils are the same height, I'm going to shim the driver's side strut assy and make it level. If I can shim on top or below the air bag on the rear, I'll also make a spacer.

[RCSignals]

Sounds like you've made a good decision. Now you can start to adjust the car to your liking.
The Marauder was originally meant to be modded and personalised by it's owner.
Have you thought about trying adjustable QA1/Naake components?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Nah, I really am not on a mission to try to make this car handle. I have more of a problem with the ultra-slow 60s-70s Detroit luxo cruiser steering ratio on this car than the handling. Even if it cornered better I do not like having to crank the wheel hand over hand. I am looking into installing a steering quickener inline w/ the steering shaft, like circle track guys use. The stock shocks would be fine if I knew they were all functioning correctly. I guess I'll have to take them each out to find out for sure. The KYBs aren't that expensive, so I may go with them. I will never use Monroe sensatracs after having one blow with only about 10k miles worth of use on it on another car, so those aren't an option for me. There are the "extreme service" replacement shocks that I might consider as well, but I think they are only made for the front.

[RCSignals]

I think I remember Steve Babcock saying something about them having to slow the steering down some for the production cars, to suit the average driver. The rack they used for the pre-production cars was considered better suited to trained performance drivers and could cause problems for most drivers.
The CVPI rack may be more like the quicker one, I'm not sure.

I wouldn't consider the Marauder rack to be ultra slow, at least compared to any '60s '70s car with recirculating or worm steering I've ever owned and driven.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I don't know, I had a 1997 Buick LeSabre, which is about as far as you can get from performance oriented driving. Nobody under 65 drives that car (although the 3800 series II is a great motor). Anyhow, even that car's steering felt faster than the Marauder. So does my 77 Camaro, without the performance steering gear. I could go on and on. The huge steering wheel doesn't help.

I can see the manufacturer not wanting an untrained driver to whip such a huge heavy car around with fast steering, but what we have seems overkill. If I can fit a steering quickener, safely, I think it would improve the driving experience a lot for me. Retrofitting a better steering rack from another car altogether is probably also a viable option with a lot of work -- I'll have to look more closely.

[Bradley G]

I will be interested with what you come up with, on that research. I heard the "senior group" did not take, to the rack and pinion change in 2003 for the Panther. Lots of complaints from people, who felt the steering was too "touchy". For the guys that do "Autocross", it sounds like it would be a great mod!

[Bradley G]

I will be interested with what you come up with, on that research. I heard the "senior group" did not take, to the rack and pinion change in 2003 for the Panther. Lots of complaints from people, who felt the steering was too "touchy". For the guys that do "Autocross", it sounds like it would be a great mod! Well deserving , of it's own thread!

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Well, a lot of people driving panthers are probably over 60 years old, so they probably wanted it to feel like 60s-70s detroit overboosted, under-ratio'd. Well, they succeeded. I'll let you know what I come up with. I'm going to have to look at how the rack mounts, and start pulling lots of junkyard racks. I'm not racing the car, but when my when my recirculating ball chevies have faster steering -- (ps that's not good), I've got to do something about it.

[larryo340]

I have driven Maruaders and, I gotta say that on my fathers '06 Grand Marquis the steering feels better. It is not overassisted, and seems quicker that the older ones. They must have made some changes.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I just checked, both the 2003 Marauder and the 2006 Grand Mrquis are the same steering ratio, 16.4, w/ variable assist. Maybe the assist is a little different, but the ratio was definitely not faster.

I think the really big steering wheel is part of why it feels so cumbersome. The ratio in and of itself isn't that horrible.

[RCSignals]

I don't know what changes were made since 2003/2004, but the rack for '03 Marauders has a different part number than the one for Grand Marquis.

The only time I have to hand over hand mine is turning a corner, and even then not so much. Maybe your EVA isn't working right?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

No, I meant when turning a corner. Most of the newer performance cars I've driven I could basically carve corners with 2 hands on the wheel, without ever having to hand over hand. This car I can't do that at all. I know it's a compromise between sporty-ness and big luxury car feel. I drove a brand new 2006 CV Sport and the steering felt exactly the same. I think a smaller steering wheel would appease me a little but that would be such a huge ordeal to keep the air bag that it's probably an impossibility.

The Marquis/CV racks are probably valved a little differently to have less steering effort, would be my guess.

Oh well.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

UPDATE: I fixed the ride height issue. I am learning quickly not to listen to people around here that tell me "that's just the nature of the beast".

I had 3/4" difference in ride height left to right in the rear of the car (low on the driver's side), with the car running and on level ground.

I got a 20k mile 03 set of MM air springs with solenoids from Fordnut.

I installed his driver's side air bag and solenoid on my car.

I now have only 1/4" difference side to side in the rear. Driver's side is still the low side. The car rides much firmer. Something was not right about my 26k mile driver's side air spring/solenoid.

I am going to try his other air bag and see if I can get 0 difference side to side. If not, 1/4" is within the factory 1/2" spec, and very acceptable by my standards.

For those who are picky, your panther does not have to lean (if it's a leaner, some sit level. Some don't.). Crappy air bag quality was the issue (I mean look at the air bags, they are plastic with rubber crimped on. You think these things are all made to exactly the same inflated height?) I hope the air bags stay level as they wear, now that they are the same height. If not they are getting ditched for coils in the future.

Fordnut, you saved my sanity. The car drives straighter down the road and the ride is firmer and more balanced with the driver's side air bag replaced and inflated equally with the other side. Now I have one less thing to pick on with the car. Yeay me!

[FordNut]

Fordnut, you saved my sanity. The car drives straighter down the road and the ride is firmer and more balanced with the driver's side air bag replaced and inflated equally with the other side. Now I have one less thing to pick on with the car. Yeay me!

Glad to help.