PI converter group buy

[Dennis Reinhart]

Again I am here to help if we can, what about a PI converter Group Buy, just let me know will make it happen.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

What type of prices would we be talking about for a 3k converter, w/ a group buy? It kills me how expensive the converters are for this specialty application, otherwise I'd have one already. I'm used to being able to get a custom built, to my spec, converter for RWD transmissions with lockup clutches and everything (for a brand X application) for $300, these converters are probably still going to be out of my price range, but I figure I'll ask anyway.

[Raudermaster]

When I bought my converter in his last GB, he had them for $700 I think. Not sure if any prices have raised or anything.

[sailsmen]

I am sure u can still get convertors for $300. The question is do you want to go quicker?

[Marauderman]

Why not answer the mans question for gooodnees sake!!!

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I'm not going to argue about converters being able to be built fairly inexpensively, that work much better than stock (they can). You do get what you pay for, so I'm sure these converters are made very well. $700 is way more than what I can justify for a car that I don't drive too often. Thanks for the answer.

[Bradley G]

They are made well , they will make your N/A car faster. They did not make my Trilogy car faster, cause I could not put the extra torque to good use (with street tires). More traction, is what a Trilogy car needs. Centriffys' & N/A Marauders, need higher stall converters.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Here is the beauty of PI, if you buy it they will upgrade it for free for two years, I just did this with Tom's converter I will do a GB with FIVE minimum.

[Marauder386]

Here is the beauty of PI, if you buy it they will upgrade it for free for two years, I just did this with Tom's converter I will do a GB with FIVE minimum.


HMMMMM..sounds like I need a free upgrade and some new DR tuneage in my SCT....:D


:cool:

[RedMerc04]

I NEED a stall! But im gonna wait for a few more Paychecks..

[sailsmen]

I know of several Trilogy that have benefitted from a higher stall TQ.

The Trilogy with the lowest 60' had PI 3,000 stall and 4:56 was BillyG's.

The Timeslip page provides good information.

[Bradley G]

Not without drag radials or other methods of better traction. BillyGman, had 9.5 in rims and Nitto drag radials.
I know of several Trilogy that have benefitted from a higher stall TQ.

The Trilogy with the lowest 60' had PI 3,000 stall and 4:56 was BillyG's.

The Timeslip page provides good information.

[sailsmen]

Very true, increase power to the driving wheels and eventually you will over come traction ability. Reduce power to the driving wheels and you will restore traction. It is also true that a PI TC makes S/C cars faster be they X, Y or Z.

Unless it's a jet car!

[Bradley G]

Just to clarify; A Trilogy S/C has so much low end torque, unless you go with sticky tires, your Marauder will not be, quicker off the line. The other choices of S/C 's , will benefit from a PI converter .
Very true, increase power to the driving wheels and eventually you will over come traction ability. Reduce power to the driving wheels and you will restore traction. It is also true that a PI TC makes S/C cars faster be they X, Y or Z.

Unless it's a jet car!

[sailsmen]

Again a PI TQ makes any type of S/C faster. Just look at the 60' times on the time slip page.

My best 60' was a 1.69 on Nitto DR, Centrifugal and PI TQ and the tires spun.

[Bradley G]

Missing your point? Stock tires and a Trilogy, means you will overpower your available traction. Add A high stall to that combo will net you, NO gains on launch! The converter will work against you. I achieved a 1.89 60' in 90* heat , a week ago today. This was only possible with Drag radials on 8" stock rims. Add a Pi converter and yes you will launch better/harder Thanks "Tony the Brit" !!
Again a PI TQ makes any type of S/C faster. Just look at the 60' times on the time slip page.

My best 60' was a 1.69 on Nitto DR, Centrifugal and PI TQ and the tires spun.

[sailsmen]

My point is additional power to the rear wheels will result in a loss of traction regardless of how that power is made.

Less power to the rear wheels does not make a car faster.

The best I could get S/C w/ the KDW2 tires in 95*/98% humidity was 1.881 by walking the car out. It had a lite rain 20 minutes before, it was so hot on the track it evaporated. They ran the street cars first.

The best I got N/A was 1.96.

[RCSignals]

Looking at various speed catalogs for TCs, they seem to start with 'performance' stall ratings that are lower than what ours is stock. Those are in the $300 - $500 range. Prices go up from there.

[MercModifier]

Missing your point? Stock tires and a Trilogy, means you will overpower your available traction. Add A high stall to that combo will net you, NO gains on launch! The converter will work against you. I achieved a 1.89 60' in 90* heat , a week ago today. This was only possible with Drag radials on 8" stock rims. Add a Pi converter and yes you will launch better/harder Thanks "Tony the Brit" !!

There are 9 second cars with Drag radials on them.
Im missing your point?

[larryo340]

Missing your point? Stock tires and a Trilogy, means you will overpower your available traction. Add A high stall to that combo will net you, NO gains on launch! The converter will work against you. I achieved a 1.89 60' in 90* heat , a week ago today. This was only possible with Drag radials on 8" stock rims. Add a Pi converter and yes you will launch better/harder Thanks "Tony the Brit" !!


There are 9 second cars with Drag radials on them.
Im missing your point?
That's for sure. I have two friends who participated in the Hot Rod pump gas drags in May, one with a 9.8 second car and the other with a best of 9.05 both cars with street radials.
Shed some weight or add alot more power to shorten your 60' times.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Those are in the $300 - $500 range. Prices go up from there.

In a lot of cases, having a reputable converter shop build a custom converter will cost less than an off the shelf unit. I had a $350 TCI and it was basically a glorified stock high stall unit, they really did not have to do much except copy a factory high stall core. For $350 I have run across a handful of shops that know what they are doing setting the vanes up per customer specs, and will use an aftermarket smaller core. I haven't looked for this application converter, but I'm sure it could be done.

[Dennis Reinhart]

In a lot of cases, having a reputable converter shop build a custom converter will cost less than an off the shelf unit. I had a $350 TCI and it was basically a glorified stock high stall unit, they really did not have to do much except copy a factory high stall core. For $350 I have run across a handful of shops that know what they are doing setting the vanes up per customer specs, and will use an aftermarket smaller core. I haven't looked for this application converter, but I'm sure it could be done.

I don't agree with building a stall converter from a stock converter,the issues is the size of the stock converter it will actually swell under WOT PI uses a smaller billet case that prevents that, they make a very good converter and have a great warranty and reputation, Jack is a great guy call him any time. An Jackie took the first order this morning for a PI 3500.

[ctrlraven]

Dennis, speaking of PI 3500 I need to get a re-tune for mine, it shifts all over the place between 45-60 mph and with the a/c on and o/d on even going up a slight hill is a big challenge. My 1/4 times at MMV were just awful, ran .50-60 slower than my fastest time with less mods lol.

[MercModifier]

Dennis, speaking of PI 3500 I need to get a re-tune for mine, it shifts all over the place between 45-60 mph and with the a/c on and o/d on even going up a slight hill is a big challenge. My 1/4 times at MMV were just awful, ran .50-60 slower than my fastest time with less mods lol.

Wasnt it 95 degrees at the track during MV5?
Id look at that being the cause first ;)

[ctrlraven]

Wasnt it 95 degrees at the track during MV5?
Id look at that being the cause first ;)


As my 60ft times went down as it got hotter my car was running slower times but still I still was in the 94.04-94.54 mph range the whole time. I believe it was a combo of hot humidity and needing a retune for running a 3500 stall. I'm going to see how this Friday night looks like and hit the track if the temps are in the 70's.

[Dennis Reinhart]

As my 60ft times went down as it got hotter my car was running slower times but still I still was in the 94.04-94.54 mph range the whole time. I believe it was a combo of hot humidity and needing a retune for running a 3500 stall. I'm going to see how this Friday night looks like and hit the track if the temps are in the 70's.


Most cars N/A or S/C ET and 60' times will go down on back to back runs 60' times have to be accounted for on each pass tire pressure is a key point and we sold a 3000 stall today so thanks for support and the GB. It was over a 100 here today.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Dennis, for $325 I have 700R4 converters built using a 9.5" aftermarket case, including maintaining a heavy duty lockup clutch. Stalls up to 3500 in the 9.5 if necessary, depending on how the vanes are set up. I was not talking about stock case converters. I can't imagine this converter is such a far cry from the 4L60 converters, other than being a specialty item ($$$$). I'm going to look into having a custom converter made and see what it will run me. Maybe there is something super special about this converter that I am not aware of, I'll have to find out.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Dennis, speaking of PI 3500 I need to get a re-tune for mine, it shifts all over the place between 45-60 mph and with the a/c on and o/d on even going up a slight hill is a big challenge. My 1/4 times at MMV were just awful, ran .50-60 slower than my fastest time with less mods lol.


Just give us a call

[Bradley G]

Please explain what your point is. If you did not catch my point; Trilogy S/C cars with stock STREET TIRES, will not benefit(launch faster) from a higher stall converter. at least mine wouldn't, I was able to achieve two 1.8 60' consecutive runs with BFG et streets . Not too shabby, EH? My understanding is, these are not stock street tires. stock tires netted, a best of 2.0 that day. My best ever, 1.9 on stock rubber.
There are 9 second cars with Drag radials on them.
Im missing your point?

[Dennis Reinhart]

This thread was started and titled PI converter group buy, this is not a discussion of how to buy one cheaper, that is for a different topic and should go under community discussion or the garage. So lets keep this on track, many members have bought these and have had little to no problems with them, and if they did PI made it right, they offer a free upgrade for two full years, no one that I know of does that, we have two members now that are in on this, we need five for the GB, Jack at PI is a great guy call him any time during his busy day and he will always take the time to answer any of your questions
http://www.converter.com/index.htm

[larryo340]

This thread was started and titled PI converter group buy, this is not a discussion of how to buy one cheaper, that is for a different topic and should go under community discussion or the garage. So lets keep this on track, many members have bought these and have had little to no problems with them, and if they did PI made it right, they offer a free upgrade for two full years, no one that I know of does that, we have two members now that are in on this, we need five for the GB, Jack at PI is a great guy call him any time during his busy day and he will always take the time to answer any of your questions
http://www.converter.com/index.htm
I agree,
if there's one thing I've learned when working with performance parts is:
"You get what you pay for!!" and in the long run it'll probably end up saving money on buying duplicate parts

[ctrlraven]

I agree,
if there's one thing I've learned when working with performance parts is:
"You get what you pay for!!" and in the long run it'll probably end up saving money on buying duplicate parts

Exactly! I thought about going with another brand but I'm glad I didn't because I know in the long run I will be better off with the PI. Even the transmission shop that did the install said they were glad I had gotten a PI because if it was some fancy stock one they would have not done the install because they don't install junk, just OEM or true performance parts.

[Pops]

I use a PI 3200 stall and it works great both on street tires and slicks. The 60 foot times at MMV were off by a tenth. Dennis is offering a good price on them as I paid more for mine buying it else where. These are good converters and hold up well under all conditions. I run my car hard and have no mercy on it as many of you have seen.

[magindat]

In a lot of cases, having a reputable converter shop build a custom converter will cost less than an off the shelf unit. I had a $350 TCI and it was basically a glorified stock high stall unit, they really did not have to do much except copy a factory high stall core. For $350 I have run across a handful of shops that know what they are doing setting the vanes up per customer specs, and will use an aftermarket smaller core. I haven't looked for this application converter, but I'm sure it could be done.


Dennis, for $325 I have 700R4 converters built using a 9.5" aftermarket case, including maintaining a heavy duty lockup clutch. Stalls up to 3500 in the 9.5 if necessary, depending on how the vanes are set up. I was not talking about stock case converters. I can't imagine this converter is such a far cry from the 4L60 converters, other than being a specialty item ($$$$). I'm going to look into having a custom converter made and see what it will run me. Maybe there is something super special about this converter that I am not aware of, I'll have to find out.

And find out you shall...

Taken Directly from PI website: http://www.converter.com/truth_prices.htm


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THE TRUTH ABOUT TORQUE CONVERTER PRICES
When talking about high performance street car torque converters a subject that is talked about a lot is price. The people who like low prices make statements like “You get a lot of bang for the buck”. The people who will pay more make statements like “You only get what you pay for”. Well I think both people are correct to some degree. The low priced person might not like the sound or the feel of the “bang” when he gets it and the higher price payer might not know if he is getting what he paid for. The “Johnny come lately” high performance street torque converter companies are all trying to get in this market. They look at our products that our customers are buying and want a piece of the so-called “gravy” as they see it. Some of these companies manufacture their own torque converters and some have a stock torque converter rebuilder build their product. These last vendors and their rebuilding companies know nothing about race torque converters or high performance street torque converters and must be thinking there is a “sucker born every minute”. If you investigate their product line you will find that most of their line is regutted stock torque converters! They jump in talking BS and throwing around low prices making statements like “just as good as” or “our quality is second to none” all things they cannot backup. The other amazing part is most of the companies coming from the racing industry side of torque converter building have spent 10, 20 or even 30 years and still do not have a majority share of their own market. Now they are coming to the high performance street converter side of the business to jump in and try to grab market share with a product of less quality and performance. Some of these newcomers will disappear quickly and some will hang on like a bad cold but in the end if any of these newbies are going to survive on this side of the business they will have to invest in quality, research and development. Some of the new comers are buying our products and trying to copy the technology but without R&D and knowing the engineering dynamics of torque converter technology they are doomed to always being 2-3 steps behind. You cannot use existing OEM parts such as stock covers, clutches, lining, hubs, etc. and get a quality part that will operate correctly and dependably in a high performance street torque converter. Our competitors use these types of parts and are charging $500-$700 (more for a higher stall) for a mostly stock 4 or 6 cylinder torque converter. There is no possible way this product is worth any more than $250-$300. I hear and read comments of how Precision Industries torque converters are over priced and Joe Blows torque converter is just as good. These people know about as much about high performance street torque converters as the young man flipping hamburgers at McDonalds. Don’t feel bad most people that build torque converters for a living don’t know any more about torque converters than the people making the above statements. The only way the buying public learns about high performance street torque converters is by what is said by some self proclaimed expert or written in the forums on the Internet. This education is like asking a person filing for bankruptcy how to get rich. If you want to know the real facts about torque converters then call the people that manufacture them and don’t depend on someone who thinks he knows torque converters because he bought one for his or her car.
To prove my point I made earlier let us dissect the price of a Precision Industries LS1 single plate torque converter and see who is paying too much, Mr. Low or Mr. High. A Precision Industries high performance street torque converter sells on average from $699-$750 through most of our dealer network. Precision Industries uses a billet cover, which we manufacture from scratch (most of our competitors do not have this capability) for a cost of around $200. I know the no experienced experts are going to say “no way” does it cost that much but it does. This is why our competitors do not want to use them. They all say, “It is to much money”. Now let us just remove the cost of this one item and look at what the price of a Precision Industries LS1 high performance street torque converter would sell for. We will have to add the cost of a welded up stock cover because these do cost money to make. I estimated the cost to be $29-$33 for Precision Industries to make one like those used by most lower priced companies. Lets subtract $200 (billet cover) from $750 (dealer selling price), and then add $33 (competitors front cover). This would make our Precision Industries LS1 high performance street torque converter sell for $583. This is about the price of our low priced competitors. But remember, our Precision Industries LS1 high performance street torque converter still has the 1. Special lockup clutch 2. Special clutch lining 3. Special turbine hub 4. Special braced turbine 5. Special impeller hub mount not counting other differences. I ask you in all honesty “WHO IS PAYING TO MUCH NOW?”









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I have PI 3000 and LOVE IT!!!!

[Dennis Reinhart]

I agree,
if there's one thing I've learned when working with performance parts is:
"You get what you pay for!!" and in the long run it'll probably end up saving money on buying duplicate parts


I agree fully we now have three confirmed buys.

[ts-pa]

I'm always looking for a bargin; not too used parts or stuff on sale. Even I would not skimp on a torque converter though!

I had destroyed one on a 1979 Chevette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Chevette) once. The mechanic told me that the trans was rebuilt with inferior parts before I bought it. Never again!

If I didn't already have one, I would have no problem buying a new PI TC from Dennis.

[Blackened300a]

Dennis, speaking of PI 3500 I need to get a re-tune for mine, it shifts all over the place between 45-60 mph and with the a/c on and o/d on even going up a slight hill is a big challenge. My 1/4 times at MMV were just awful, ran .50-60 slower than my fastest time with less mods lol.

The heat killed us. Im very sure that we would have both ran mid-high 13 second time slips if the weather was at least 20 degree's cooler and low humidity.


I run my car hard and have no mercy on it as many of you have seen.

I can attest to this. You made 3 hot-lapped runs with full burnouts and ran the car hard on each one.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Ok we now have 4 confirmed Thanks Charlie lets get one more and I will leave this go for a week for any stragglers.

[ctrlraven]

Dennis, thanks for the quick response with the adjustment tune, it REALLY WOKE THE CAR UP. I have an even bigger grin on my face now that shift schedule is around where it needs to be and man does it pull.

If anyone is sitting on the fence about getting a PI torque converter stop wasting time and get it!

[Blackened300a]

Dennis, thanks for the quick response with the adjustment tune, it REALLY WOKE THE CAR UP. I have an even bigger grin on my face now that shift schedule is around where it needs to be and man does it pull.!

If only this weekend was MV-V!

[Dennis Reinhart]

Dennis, thanks for the quick response with the adjustment tune, it REALLY WOKE THE CAR UP. I have an even bigger grin on my face now that shift schedule is around where it needs to be and man does it pull.

If anyone is sitting on the fence about getting a PI torque converter stop wasting time and get it!


You are more than welcome, that is what we are here for.

[ctrlraven]

Yeah I know right lol. Even today when it was just as hot as it was at the track, it was running 100% better than what it felt like at MMV.

Now I just have to track down where a little trans fluid is leaking from, not much, car sat for about 6 hrs and left a quarter size spot in my shop, hopefully it's just a loose bolt or something minor.

[Blackened300a]

I may be returning to the track on Sunday. Im on a mission to get my 13 second time slip.
Its my goal and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon til I reach it.

Maybe your dip stick isn't all the way down or its blowing a little out the vent. Hope its something minor as well.

[ctrlraven]

I got under the car, a few of the pan bolts took a half of turn and the only place I saw fluid out was towards the front under the gasket of the pan and the bolts were all wet with fluid so I just cleaned everything off real well and will re-check everything on Sunday.

Good luck Paul! If you haven't gotten a re-tune for your torque converter get it from your tuner asap.

[Mongoose]

Ok we now have 4 confirmed Thanks Charlie lets get one more and I will leave this go for a week for any stragglers.
You're welcome Dennis.
Any other group buys in the works along the lines of my project like a Kooks exhaust system :D ?

[Blackened300a]

Good luck Paul! If you haven't gotten a re-tune for your torque converter get it from your tuner asap.

Im already tuned!

[Dennis Reinhart]

We now have 5, so I want to thnak the club. I will let this run till next Friday.