MM Plus Size Braking Options?

[KillJoy]

Are any of the Big Brake Kits better than the other?

Do any have any major advantage / disadvantage over another?

Speak up! My car can't stop to save it's life.... or mine for that matter :rolleyes:

KillJoy

[RF Overlord]

Steve, my Wilwoods from Todd at TCE are excellent. So were the Baer's that Mac had on his KB car (I had the honour of driving "Patches" from Chicago to Indy and back for MVII).

[KillJoy]

Steve, my Wilwoods from Todd at TCE are excellent. So were the Baer's that Mac had on his KB car.


Yup yup yup. I know that both are GOOD products.... but....does one have a benefit over the other? Like....easier availability of Rotors / Pads? Or, uses stock lines. Or ...blah blah blah.

:confused:

KillJoy

[Breadfan]

I believe the Wilwoods have fixed calipers and the Baers are floating. Both I believe are 14" rotors.

I'm not a brake expert but I believe fixed are "better" in terms of overall performance.

I've not experienced either, but specifications wise I believe the above is correct.

[ctrlraven]

I wanted to upgrade mine with a big brake kit but because I run 16" steelies for the winter I just upgraded them with some EBC dimpled slotted rotors, NAPA Ceramix pads (front rotors/pads for now) and KVR SS lines all around.

Car definitely stops a lot better now even at high speeds it will drop speed quickly.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

ctrlraven, who did you get the EBC's through? What did they run?

[KillJoy]

I wanted to upgrade mine with a big brake kit but because I run 16" steelies for the winter I just upgraded them with some EBC dimpled slotted rotors, NAPA Ceramix pads (front rotors/pads for now) and KVR SS lines all around.



Been there....done that. Time to go bigger.

KillJoy

[ctrlraven]

ctrlraven, who did you get the EBC's through? What did they run?

www.autopartswarehouse.com they have the fronts for like $193, rears for $165. Pads were $67 from Napa and bought the KVR SS lines from DR for his advertised price. I used to have the EBC green stuff pads and they were complete junk, they were actually eating the rotor up because they had too much metal in them were as the Napa Ceramix pads have more ceramic in them and Zack recommended them.


Been there....done that. Time to go bigger.

KillJoy

Or just slow down or install a chute on the back of your car :lol:

I know a lot of people who had Wilwood brakes and have felt their stopping power, if I were going to get a brake kit they would be the only ones.

[LILALLEYKATT]

I was ready to pull the trigger on a set of Wilwoods until I talked with Rick-in-Miami @ the Dream cruise....Hes got Wilwoods and is going to switch to a set of Baers....Then I talked to a very reputable tuner whom had to turn baer rotors every 3K mi...I dont know which way to go now....

[Eric91Z]

First off, I have no first hand experience, besides driving Dave's car with the Baer's. They do stop nicely. I have heard of Baer having rotor issues though.

I think the Basic Wilwood kit from TCE is a 13.1" rotor, but with a 6-piston caliper. And the pads are quite easy to replace on the Wilwoods as they slide out the back of the caliper. I don't think the Wilwoods have dust seals on the pistons, so not as good for winter driving if you actually get snow. I also think that TCE is the only one that offers and actual upgraded rear setup to match the fronts, but it about doubles your cost.

For my money, when the time comes, I will go with the TCE kit. And if you are running larger than stock wheels you can jump up to larger rotors with the TCE kit.

[MarauderSM]

On regards to brakes, fixed are way better in terms of performance. Fixed calipers have a transfer tube for the brake fluid that pushes pistons on BOTH sides to contact the rotor. Floating or sliding calipers dont have the transfer tube, so the pressure from the brake fluid slides ONE side of the caliper over to have both pads contact the rotor.

[MarauderSM]

Also when I get wheels and my MARAUDER I will get the upgrade TCE kit.

[RF Overlord]

who did you get the EBC's through?
Dennis Reinhart sells them and he is a supporting vendor here.

[Hotrauder]

ctrlraven, who did you get the EBC's through? What did they run?

Save your money for real brakes. Wilwood for me or Baer. The EBC's suck in my experience and were a waste of money to buy and install. I had better brakes with the stock set up.:mad: Dennis

[MarauderTJA]

Save your money for real brakes. Wilwood for me or Baer. The EBC's suck in my experience and were a waste of money to buy and install. I had better brakes with the stock set up.:mad: Dennis

Your right Dennis......GO WITH BAER Brakes...they rock...14" front rotors will certainly stop you and they look great.

[MarauderTJA]

Here is what BAER look like.

[KillJoy]

Here is what BAER look like.

Pic is TOO small!!!!!

KillJoy

[Todd TCE]

One of the issues that comes up in nearly all BBKs is the need to further educate the driver. Fitting a BBK to the car can improve feel, response and thermal capacity. However exploiting these benefits still comes with some responsibilities as the driver.

The single biggest factor hurting every rotor, stock to 16", is learning to not bake the pads. Burning the pad is the hot spotting and "splotchiness" associated with stopping the car with brakes that are too hot. This issue is a never ending battle with a car using an automatic trans.

I had a call from one of our government agencies about big brakes for a CV and if this kit would work on their car. Aside from the tech discussion he was quick to point out they teach and stress the way they teach things for pursuit- use the gas or the brake. If you're not going or slowing take your foot off the pedal. Couldn't have said it better.

So...use 'em hard and pick pads that meet your needs but remember to consider how hot they are when you finally stop. Racing your buddy off the ramp to the light and late braking him only to sit there for 3min is not a brake problem, it's a driver problem! Now you know why you sometimes see race cars pushed a few feet in a pit when being parked for some time.

[Zack]

Todd, if you wouldnt mind posting pricing for the front kit, that would be great.
Maybe a group buy, because more than a few are interested, including myself.

BTW, Baer Brakes are junk.

[Hotrauder]

http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/


It is all there.:D Dennis

[Todd TCE]

I don't thing Baer Brakes are junk. I think they offer a number of product levels that are from 'hard to beat' price wise to 'oh my god' levels of performance. I think often people buy in on a name product with expectations of one thing and get something else. Too a point I suffer the same problems. I simply try to slot in my product somewhere in the middle ground between the two levels above.

I might want to remind everyone that the biggest issue facing your choice of brands here is wheel fit. You simply cannot shoehorn much product behind the oem wheel. Here the Baer kit shines. With it's twin pot floater it takes up very little room. But in return it really doesn't offer much you don't already have in the factory system. It's more of a lateral move. Now putting some big honkin multi piston caliper, behemoth wide rotor in there poses some problems. Sadly, the Marauder remains big brake challenged due to the wheel.

[KillJoy]

But in return it really doesn't offer much you don't already have in the factory system. It's more of a lateral move.

So... in reality, the Wilwood kit is actually the better upgrade, from a performance standpoint?

KillJoy

[Todd TCE]

Depends upon your take on 'better'.

The twin pot remains a floater design. A fixed multi piston caliper provides better response time, feel or feedback, and often a wider range of pad options. It's a balance of piston area relative to rotor size used also.

The one piece rotor while cheaper to produce and often simply a reworked Mustang or Vette part is quite heavy compared to a two piece design. Rotational mass being what it is can have an effect on both braking and acceleration. Both offer greater swept area and effective mass as well as the diameter increae.

[KillJoy]

Todd,

Could you go into more, or point me into the right direction as where to look, Floater vs Fixed benefits and downsides?

KillJoy

[Todd TCE]

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/1932494324.html
http://www.forparts.com/ICdiscbrakecalipers6.05.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake
http://www.tolomatic.com/products/product_detail.cfm?tree_id=175
http://www.tolomatic.com/products/product_detail.cfm?tree_id=174
http://www.hayesdiscbrake.com/hayesu_product3.shtml

[Breadfan]

Todd,

Could you go into more, or point me into the right direction as where to look, Floater vs Fixed benefits and downsides?

KillJoy

Think of it this way, do you want to tell people at car shows you have a fixed caliper or that you've got a floater. :) :D

Todd thanks for the links, it'll give me some good reading for tonight. Also appreciate your open mindedness as you are discussing these kits, a sign of a quality vendor! :beer:

[Todd TCE]

It's hard to find the specifics of what is asked. Much of it is either learned or derived from the data on how one or the other works. Stopech may also have some info on comparing the two.

In short the mechanical leverage requirements of the floater are less efficient than the opposed design. This leads to a longer, softer pedal with greater pull back. Yes there are pros and cons to each as you'd suspect, maybe I'll get to that sometime later.

[KillJoy]

Todd thanks for the Links. I had already made up my mind on which BBK I wanted. You just helped seal the deal ;)

:up:

Now.... to save up :(

KillJoy

[Breadfan]

Hey, another thing, if you have a floater kit and flush your brakes then you can say you flushed your floaters. :)

Geez I need more sleep...

[Zack]

Group Buy Todd!

[KillJoy]

Group Buy Todd!


+1

:up:

KillJoy