#6 Progress Report: 14.60 @ 98 Corrected: Lidios Race Gas Tune Worth .14 Sec

[fastcar]

At least...

Howdy Gang,

Just finished testing my 300A with Lidios Sunoco GT tune. I used GT Plus, which is rated at 104. GT is rated at 100. The price was the same from my supplier, so I used the better stuff.

Doesn't that gas smell fabulous???

It's weird, but when you get any on you, it just evaporates, and no bad gas odors linger.

Anyway, I also J-MOD 'd my tranny, but I really feel that most of the change was from the tune. My personal best one run was a freaky 14.41 @ 99.8. I throw out my best and worst times, and average the rest when making forum reports on my mods.

My previous best (which was thrown out in the last calculation) was 14.67 @ 97.4 . If you subtract one freaky best from the other, then you get a .26 second improvement. Furthermore, previous worst (15.02) minus last night's worst (14.72) gives you .30 .

My point is, that the tune gave me AT LEAST .14, and was probably worth more like 2/10ths, were it not for difficulty in getting consistent results.

As usual, with each mod, my starting line technique had to change. I COULD NOT LEAVE ABOVE IDLE. ALSO, I COULD NOT WOOD THE PEDAL ON GREEN. My best results were obtained by quickly depressing the throttle pedal 1/2 way on green (the tires would still spin too much) then, just when they were about to hook, floor it.

If I could leave against the converter, I bet I could get 2/10ths right off the top, with more consistency.

Anyway, I have long anticipated this report, as it will be my last for the year. I have done all the mods I intended to for this season, and my last test was Lidio's tune, which means I'm all done.

Next year I hope to add a PI 3500 stall and get to 14 flat.

Best time stock to best time modified, I have shaved 1.03 seconds off my ET. Average stock to average modified, I have shaved .86 seconds off.

Here is a quick list. You can search for any of these reports under the keyword 'Progress Report' to get details on each mod, and what I learned/my experience with it.

Progress Report: Bone Stock 15.46 @ 94.2 corrected
#2 Progress Report: K&N FIPK 15.33 @ NA corrected
#3 Progress Report: Lidio's 93 Tune 15.09 @ 95 corrected
#4 Progress Report: 4.10 gearset 14.84 @ 96.5 corrected
#5 Progress Report: Steeda UDs 14.74 @ 97 corrected
#6 Progress Report: Lidio's Race Gas Tune 14.60 @ 98 corrected

Well, that's all for now. I will be travelling to the track in the next couple weeks to race my friend's Acura TL 6 speed. With the right driver they run very low 14s. My testing equipment is normally .1 seconds slower than track equipment, so I may be able to cut consistent 14.50s, I'm hoping (corrected). At least with the mods, I will have a chance against him, or at the very least, not get totally embarrassed ;)

fastcar

P.S. I go here to correct my timeslips: http://www.modulardepot.com/density.php . If you do the same, you will actually be able to compare slips with yourself and others.

[MinnesotaMuscle]

Sweet, up here at Brainerd I have 110 race fuel available to me, I wonder at what point for a 10:1 engine does it not make it worth it....

[Blackened300a]

Get some tires so you can do a strong launch. You would probably be running 14.0's by now if you were able to leave the line hard.

[fastcar]

Sweet, up here at Brainerd I have 110 race fuel available to me, I wonder at what point for a 10:1 engine does it not make it worth it....

Hey Minnesota,

Be careful of 110. If it's Sunoco, then it has lead, and you will want to think twice before using it.

It's always worth running the higher octane because you can go leaner, and run more ignition advance. That's why Lidio sent me a special 'Race Gas' Tune for my car - because it's worth it.

If your question is, how much octane do you need for maximum power on our motors, that is a good question. I have a feeling this tune is all the way, and that it doesn't matter. When Lidio heard I was using Sunoco GT, he just said, 'That's great, I'll send you a tune race gas tune that's worth HP', he didn't make an issue out of the octane rating.

GT Plus is ELEVEN points higher than the best pump gas I can get around here, so, I think on a NA stock compression car, my a/f ratio and timing are probably optimized. It's a good question though, and probably of even more interest to SC guys...

fastcar:burnout:

[fastcar]

Get some tires so you can do a strong launch. You would probably be running 14.0's by now if you were able to leave the line hard.

Hey, Blackened. Thanks for your interest. Your car is one of my favorites, because it's a solid 13 second ride ON THE MOTOR. That is really cool.:cool:

I know you want my to get some tires, you mentioned this in my last report. What are you running when you go to the strip?

I'm generally against straight line tires, only. If I had money to burn, I would consider a nice set of second rims widened with the Nitto drag tires on them. But, honestly, I really like to try to get there in street trim. I want the car to be the fastest to the next light, then be able to TURN.

When these tires go (and believe me, that will be SOON:D) I will be getting 255/55/18s for the back (probably Rikens). Perhaps the little extra rubber will help?

After that, I will be looking at new control arms, and I would really like to see some that ARE ADJUSTABLE. I learned when I used to race my big block Torino that your 60 foot times are ALL ABOUT THE INSTANT CENTER. If the IC is forward, and low, you are going to get really good WEIGHT TRANSFER and chassis reaction.

I haven't heard any discussions on this subject, but I'd like to hear more about it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has thought about it...

Thanks for the suggestion, and still curious what you are using to get your uncorrected 14 flat times.

fastcar:burnout:

[Blackened300a]

Im running Nitto 420S in 255/55/18 on the rear at 25psi. I went to the track 3 weeks ago and once they get hot, I had zero wheel spin for all three of my runs. This was also in full street form, I had everything in the trunk, Headlight installed and ran the car with a little less then 1/2 tank of 93.

Your MPH is proving that with traction you will have a instant high 13 or very low 14 second time slip. Im pulling 14.0@98MPH in mid 80 degree temps with a 3000 stall convertor, Your pulling the same MPH without a convertor.
Your car has the potential!!!

BTW, I like your threads where you post what each mod is doing to your E/T, Keep them coming!

[sailsmen]

Impressive runs.:banana2: Posting your 60' is helpful.

I tried the Nitto DR. They were like jelly roll donuts on the street and would not stick in cool weather at the track.

I went w/ MT ET Streets.So far I like them. If you run below 25psi they start to whabble at speed.

N/A I went 13.74 on 255 KDW-2.

The more I think about averages the less I like them, I am at the point of thinking an average is useless.

[CRUZTAKER]

I assume you found this fuel for the dyno tune in Detroit as well???

If so...where? I happen to be in town.;)

[fastcar]

I assume you found this fuel for the dyno tune in Detroit as well???

If so...where? I happen to be in town.;)

Hey Cruz,

I'm in the Boston area, not Detroit! I got mine in Leominster at a Sunoco station.

Hey, Cruz, you never replied to my email on the J-MOD update...

fastcar:burnout:

[fastcar]

Impressive runs.:banana2: Posting your 60' is helpful.

I tried the Nitto DR. They were like jelly roll donuts on the street and would not stick in cool weather at the track.

I went w/ MT ET Streets.So far I like them. If you run below 25psi they start to whabble at speed.

N/A I went 13.74 on 255 KDW-2.

The more I think about averages the less I like them, I am at the point of thinking an average is useless.

Thanks for the 411 on the Nitto DRs. Wow. nice run on the KDW-2s!;) My goal is 13s next year!

On averages, I like them using the Vericom VC200. When I get a bunch of runs that are within .05 seconds, and then one that is much lower, I throw it out. It's common in the scientific world to throw out high and low, and average the rest. Over time, it gives a more statistically accurate picture of what is really going on.

For example, if I get a string of 14.60s, then a 15.00 that data will skew my results inappropriately. Same thing on a freak fast run, of say 14.30. If I can't do it again, I become skeptical of it's validity. Your results should be duplicatable, especially when you are testing parts.

My goal is to publish information that is as accurate as possible. Not get one freak run to brag about.

Unfortunately, my computer is unable to post 60' times at the same time that it does a 1/4 mile. There was a software update years back that would allow this, but I got my computer off eBay, and it wasn't so equipped...

But, when I do a dedicated 60' run, I'm getting 2.64s, which translates to probably 2.54s at the track. I know, it's HORRIBLE, but that's the best I can do, no matter how I change my technique. Trust me, I've tried EVERYTHING.

fastcar:burnout:

[magindat]

I run the 420S at 255/45/20 with about 30 PSI at the track. They hook quite nicely for NA.

[fastcar]

Im running Nitto 420S in 255/55/18 on the rear at 25psi. I went to the track 3 weeks ago and once they get hot, I had zero wheel spin for all three of my runs. This was also in full street form, I had everything in the trunk, Headlight installed and ran the car with a little less then 1/2 tank of 93.

Your MPH is proving that with traction you will have a instant high 13 or very low 14 second time slip. Im pulling 14.0@98MPH in mid 80 degree temps with a 3000 stall convertor, Your pulling the same MPH without a convertor.
Your car has the potential!!!

BTW, I like your threads where you post what each mod is doing to your E/T, Keep them coming!

Zero wheel spin? What was your line technique? It's hard to believe that if you left against the converter, you wouldn't get any spin at all. That's so hard to believe, esp. with a PI 3500 stall converter...

You are correct on your statement about my speed being very good for a 13 second run, if I could hook is true IF IT WERE A TRACK RESULT. It's from a VC-200 instrument, and they are known to give high estimates on speed. I have found they are about 3% higher than track results. This would mean my MPH is probably more like 95.

The computer is extremely accurate, and most importantly, gives very duplicatable results, as one can see from my progress reports. Each mod keeps shaving a little bit more:D

Quarter mile times on the computer are normally slower because there is no roll-out, so it starts counting the instant the vehicle moves, not after it gets going. So, normally ETs are about 1/10th slower than you will get at the track.

But, my 60' times are horrible, around 2.5, so, you are still correct, I have a lot of room for improvement...

Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully I will be able to do more next summer. I'd like to at the very least do the PI 3500 converter, and probably rebuild my tranny at the same time.

fastcar:burnout:

[Blackened300a]

Zero wheel spin? What was your line technique? It's hard to believe that if you left against the converter, you wouldn't get any spin at all. That's so hard to believe, esp. with a PI 3500 stall converter...

You are correct on your statement about my speed being very good for a 13 second run, if I could hook is true IF IT WERE A TRACK RESULT. It's from a VC-200 instrument, and they are known to give high estimates on speed. I have found they are about 3% higher than track results. This would mean my MPH is probably more like 95.

The computer is extremely accurate, and most importantly, gives very duplicatable results, as one can see from my progress reports. Each mod keeps shaving a little bit more:D

Quarter mile times on the computer are normally slower because there is no roll-out, so it starts counting the instant the vehicle moves, not after it gets going. So, normally ETs are about 1/10th slower than you will get at the track.

But, my 60' times are horrible, around 2.5, so, you are still correct, I have a lot of room for improvement...

Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully I will be able to do more next summer. I'd like to at the very least do the PI 3500 converter, and probably rebuild my tranny at the same time.

fastcar:burnout:

If 13's are your goal, then its very possible you have already reached your goal. I have pulled 2.05 and 2.10 60' times and thats stalling the convertor, I do a burnout in 1st gear without water. I keep the RPM's at about 4K during my burnout then let off the brake and mash the throttle. At the line I hold the brake and bring my RPM's up to about 2800. As soon as the last yellow lights up, Im off the brake and full on the throttle. A few members have been suggesting flashing the convertor which means bring the RPM's up to about 1200 and then on the last yellow, Mashing the throttle. For a split second the engine will spin faster then the transmission and act like a dumped clutch start.
I keep my fastest time as my bragging right but my car is very consistant. At MV-V, out of 7 runs, 6 of them were 14.3's, My last track visit I had 3 runs and they were all 14.0's.

[fastcar]

Blackened,

I can't wait to try this stuff out at the track. Maybe the surface is so much stickier, you can get away with this technique. I still am amazed that you are able to get 2800 RPM without tire spin, esp. on smallish street tires, and esp. with a stall converter!

Could you do this with the stock tires?

fastcar:burnout:

BTW, thanks for explaining 'flash' the converter. Have you tried it? I've done it several times, but never got the 'dumped clutch' sensation!

[Blackened300a]

Blackened,

I can't wait to try this stuff out at the track. Maybe the surface is so much stickier, you can get away with this technique. I still am amazed that you are able to get 2800 RPM without tire spin, esp. on smallish street tires, and esp. with a stall converter!

Could you do this with the stock tires?

fastcar:burnout:

BTW, thanks for explaining 'flash' the converter. Have you tried it? I've done it several times, but never got the 'dumped clutch' sensation!

The track is very sticky and it may be possible if you get your stock tires hot enough with the right pressure, you could get it off the line without spinning.
My Street tires are actually bigger then stock, I went from a 245 to a 255.
I tried flashing the convertor on the street and my rears went up in smoke, I have also tried stalling the convertor on the street and had the same result. On the track, I stalled all my runs without any spin. I plan on returning to the track in October and try flashing the convertor off the line.

BTW, You wont really feel the "dumped clutch" sensation with the stock convertor. This is why they say a upgraded TC can cut your E/T by almost seven tenths.

[CRUZTAKER]

Hey Cruz,

I'm in the Boston area, not Detroit! I got mine in Leominster at a Sunoco station.

Hey, Cruz, you never replied to my email on the J-MOD update...

fastcar:burnout:

I misunderstood. I assumed you dynoed here (in Detroit), thus using race fuel from here. I shy away from tunes that assume situations that cannot be duplicated on premiss, on a dyno.

Anyway....

I have not replied to your PM, but have flagged it for followup, as I was on my way out the door when I read it. You must understand, I did not write those documents I sent you, I merely aquired them. Why not just submit your revisions in the RESOURCE ROOM here on MM.NET.

It would avoid me from further sending them out upon request as I have done over the years. I need only redirect folks to our url.;)

[fastcar]

I misunderstood. I assumed you dynoed here (in Detroit), thus using race fuel from here. I shy away from tunes that assume situations that cannot be duplicated on premiss, on a dyno.

Anyway....

I have not replied to your PM, but have flagged it for followup, as I was on my way out the door when I read it. You must understand, I did not write those documents I sent you, I merely aquired them. Why not just submit your revisions in the RESOURCE ROOM here on MM.NET.

It would avoid me from further sending them out upon request as I have done over the years. I need only redirect folks to our url.;)

Fine, be that way! Just kidding:P So, I'll assume you agree with the revisions, I'll make them final, and ask Bunny if she would agree to posting them in the resource room.

fastcar:burnout:

[chader]

I went to the track last night,inCalgary...ran 15.37 at 90.14 mph...using the link you supplied it was corrected to 14.41 at 95.8...did the same run 3 times with a .010 difference????I think that is ok??

[Bigdough]

Cool threads. I like real world data for mods, keep up the good work.

[fastcar]

I went to the track last night,inCalgary...ran 15.37 at 90.14 mph...using the link you supplied it was corrected to 14.41 at 95.8...did the same run 3 times with a .010 difference????I think that is ok??

Your car seems to be running really similarly to mine. I estimate that at the track my time/speed will be nearly identical. Our mods are so close, I have the UDs, but I also have 107K!

Three runs within .01, now I know your bragging:) That's real good consistency.

Talk about your off the line technique...

fastcar:burnout:

[fastcar]

Cool threads. I like real world data for mods, keep up the good work.

Thanks Bigdough. Me too. I like the scientific method, and confirming the value of a modification. I wish someone had tested the Accufab throttle body, for example, because I don't really know if it's worth it on an NA car... My guess is, it's probably good for a 1/10, but that's a pricey 1/10!

I really hope in the spring to do a 3500-3600 RPM PI stall converter. With a claim of .5 -.7 second reduction, you betcha I'm going to test it! I can't wait to see if it really does what they claim. But with the number of 14 flat MMs out there that have little more than gears and a converter, you know they must be close!;)

fastcar:burnout:

[Blackened300a]

Thanks Bigdough. Me too. I like the scientific method, and confirming the value of a modification. I wish someone had tested the Accufab throttle body, for example, because I don't really know if it's worth it on an NA car... My guess is, it's probably good for a 1/10, but that's a pricey 1/10!

I did, it added 1 rwhp and 3 rwtq accross the band but nothing for my peak. This wouldn't help me much in the 1/4 but every mod counts.

Rule of thumb...
You need 10 rwhp to subract 1/10th from your E/T. 100 rwhp subtracts a full second. Also every 100lbs add or subracted from your weight will equal a 1/10th.

[fastcar]

Wow, fascinating, Blackened. You can't argue with the dyno!!!
This is really useful. It teaches me that it would be after other mods.

fastcar:burnout:

[chader]

Your car seems to be running really similarly to mine. I estimate that at the track my time/speed will be nearly identical. Our mods are so close, I have the UDs, but I also have 107K!

Three runs within .01, now I know your bragging:) That's real good consistency.

Talk about your off the line technique...

fastcar:burnout:
very lucky....stall to 1500 rpm and mash it....Calgary is probly the worst track on the planet....anyone else at any other track can probly stall higher...and sometimes it good to quit early...like b4 the 15.80?????