Ford Under Rates HP in MACH1 and Cobra

[Bowman9]

A friend from work just shot me this link.
The article is saying that Ford has under rated the HP in both the Mach1 and Cobra 4.6 dohc motors and that it is actually about 15hp more than advertised.

I wonder if this applies to our 4.6 dohc Marauder motors?


http://www.dynoperformance.com/article_details.php?ID=27


Later
Bowman9

[MAD-3R]

It could also be that there 15% is to leanyt of a drive train lose.

[rurumon]

interesting dude. I always heard mach 1 owners getting 1/4 times deep in the 13's, some as low as 13.3 which I found hard to believe with just over 300 BHP. It makes alot more sense that that figure is underrated, and since we have a similar motor it wouldnt be too rediculous to assume we are underrated as well. I have only see one baseline dyno on the board so far, anyone know of any others?


on another note, even though they might have underrated our power, we still run rather abysmal 1/4 times stock. :mad: low 15's = :mad2:

[MAD-3R]

Originally posted by rurumon

on another note, even though they might have underrated our power, we still run rather abysmal 1/4 times stock. :mad: low 15's = :mad2:

For a two ton car? Abysmal? High 14's and low 15's is pretty damn good for a 4000lb car.

[Marauder57]

Actually I think it is 4400lbs....hey every lb counts....when trying to run a 1/4....I think all things considered out car does alright for as big as it is......

[Dr Caleb]

Auto makers always under rated HP. Look at the 60's Mach 1's, Cougars, GT 500's, Z28's, Super Birds.

It was to fool the insurance companies. Hehehe like they were fooled...

[cyclone03]

The automatic sucks a little HP,but the torque converter gives a little back to help the lowend.
What we,MM,are missing is the extra 1000rpm on top that the stick shift cars get.Our cut off is 6200rpm to save the converter from balloning.The stick cars cut off at 7200rpm.
If I ever get a PI converter Im going to have the rev limit raised to 7200.

[Bad Boy Merc]

Lets hope so!!!

[Warpath]

When the 99 Cobras came out, they were advertised to produce 320 bhp. It turns out they only made about 305 bhp give or take. Ford "recalled" the Cobras and fixed them. (Its not a real recall since its not a safety issue). There were some quality problems with the intakes and mufflers. Plus, I think marketing opened their mouth before the new engine power was really known. I think Ford is now hesitant to advertise the real power because so many Cobra owners were unhappy. Plus, recalls are really expensive.

[merc]

The same source reviewed the M/M

http://www.dynoperformance.com/search_details.php?ID=312

[cyclone03]

Originally posted by merc
The same source reviewed the M/M

http://www.dynoperformance.com/search_details.php?ID=312




YES I'M YELLING!


:bs: :bs: :bs:

HOW DID THEY GET A PEAK NUMBER AT 6600+RPM WHEN THE
FUEL SHUTS OFF AT 6200RPM TO SAVE THE CONVERTER!!!!

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by cyclone03
If I ever get a PI converter Im going to have the rev limit raised to 7200.

PI as in Police Interceptor? I thought the MM had a better torque converter?

[cyclone03]

No RC,
PI as in Precision Industries.
They manufadtor the Torque converters Dennis sells.

[rurumon]

Hey guys, notice that at about 6200 rpms, we make about 302 hp, which is closer to factory estimates.

Damn Ford robbing us of our horsies, Torque converter here I come.

[BillyGman]

you guys are saying is that even though the MM motor makes the most HP at 6600RPM's(according to the info from that link) the reason why Ford sets the redline at 6125RPM's is merely because of the stock torque converter??? Are you sure that's the case???

[BillyGman]

I just went to the home page of that dyno website(www.dynoperformance.co m) and I noticed that it has dyno results for the Marauder from another Dyno also, and those results indicate that the maximum HP from a stock MM was at 5100RPM's. So my question stands....are you sure that you would want to bring your MM up to the 7000RPM range? As for me, I don't think so.......

[Constable]

Maybe I'm just trying to be TOO logical here... BUT....

Just because they found 15 more ponies at the wheels, doesn't necessarily mean there's 15 more ponies at the flywheel, right? Is it possible that the technological improvements in the drivetrain over the past 7 years (96-03), has made them more effecient at putting power to the ground?

Re-worded: Maybe the motor is making the same horsepower as before, but now the drivtrain is putting MORE of that power to the ground.

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by Constable
Maybe I'm just trying to be TOO logical here... BUT....

Re-worded: Maybe the motor is making the same horsepower as before, but now the drivtrain is putting MORE of that power to the ground.

I'd say overall this is a true statement. Drivetrains are more effecient than in the past. But I don't think changing only software for a given drivetrain will result in this increase.

The only part of the drivetrain that relies on software, to my knowledge, is the transmission. Software controls shift points and converter lockup.

The must have to play with fuel/air/timing ratios and settings to squeeze more HP out. This is all Fordchips and others do, is play with the computer so everything plays nicer with each other.

(edit) As for your original question, if there are 15 more ponies at the rear wheels, there has to be at least 15 more ponies at the flywheel. 15 ponies + driveline losses at the flywheel, that is, as the ponies are generated in the cylynders.

[LincMercLover]

I thought we made 302@5750...? :confused:

Granted, it's an OHC motor, but still...

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
I thought we made 302@5750...? :confused:

Granted, it's an OHC motor, but still...

Yup. 302 at the flywheel though. Once you add the torque converter, transmission and rear end, I've seen dyno tests here in the range of 268 - 280 at the rear wheels.

To get ~285 (+ 15 ponies) at the rear wheels, you'd have to have ~320Hp at the flywheel.

[LincMercLover]

Bone stock average numbers for a MM at the rear wheel is like 242HP or so though.

[TAF]

240 - 245 RWHP is what I've seen posted and personally experianced on stockers...you're right LML (as much as we collectively hate to admit it) *please don't consider that harassment :lol:

[LincMercLover]

Looking to shut another thread down Todd? :D

[cyclone03]

Sorry for not quoting.........
I read either here or another source that the converter "ballons"at about 6500rpm and thats why the limit is set at 6200.(or so).I don't now how happy our cast cranks will be at 7000rpm though.............

Ford left quite a bit of power on the table with the tuning.Just look at the fuel curve it goes "pig rich"at around 4000rpm.
My "butt-o-meter" tells me they "tammed "the torque curve to give the car a "normal" OHV typ power curve,ie all done at 6000rpm.
Pull that curve up to about the 12-13 to 1 range and watch the power come back,at the same time richen the below 3000rpm curve a tad too....Of course that s what Dennis does with his chip I'm sure.
But IF that curve is correct there is power to be had above 6000.