5R55S (Mustang 5-speed Auto) Anyone done this? 3.73s=4.30s + Less RPM drop on shifts

[fastcar]

Has anyone done this?

Is it possible?

Would we need a Mustang computer?

Could we do it another way?

Would the crossmember lineup?

Do we need a different slip yoke?

The first gear ratio is MUCH better than ours, 3.21 v 2.84. With a 3.73 rear gear, you get more than a 4.10 equivalent, you get like 4.30s!

Also, the RPM drop on 1-2 in the 4R70W is 50%. 50%! That means if you shift at 6000 RPM, your input shaft speed want to go to 3000 RPM (converter notwithstanding) On the 5R55S, the drop is nearly half that :cool:

PI MAKES A CONVERTER FOR THEM, TOO! I know it's not on the website, but I called them, and they said, yes, they do (same price).

I was thinking I would go with a T-56 like Master did (which is the ultimate), but my wife drives this, and I think I want to keep it more of an easy cruiser...

I know someone is going to mention the '55' vs the '70' in the name, which implies that it handles a lot less power, but I know for a fact that these things are standing up to A LOT of horsepower in supercharged configurations, and surviving just fine. I don't know how Ford got the '55', but durability S/C'd doesn't seem to be a problem, MUCH LESS N/A'd.

I like the idea a lot.

What say you?

fastcar:burnout:

[StevenJ]

Why would you want that tranny in our car? It would fall apart in no time, it has lower torque ratings than the 4R70W. The 5R55 is a Ford Ranger tranny. The only reason why it is in a Mustang is because of the light weight. Now the new 6R's in the Explorer would be a good choice. That's the 4R70 unit with two more cogs.

[fastcar]

Why would you want that tranny in our car? It would fall apart in no time, it has lower torque ratings than the 4R70W. The 5R55 is a Ford Ranger tranny. The only reason why it is in a Mustang is because of the light weight. Now the new 6R's in the Explorer would be a good choice. That's the 4R70 unit with two more cogs.

6 speed FMX? That sounds awesome! I didn't even know about these transmissions...

The 5R55 IS surviving just fine behind S/C'd Mustangs, and has been for 3 years. I can't argue with that.

But, I can't argue with a 6R, either!

So, will it bolt in?

Does the PI 4RxxW converter work with it?

Electronics?

Let's go!

fascar:burnout:

[MarauderSM]

I always wondered too what would be needed to do such a swap. Two more gears in a Marauder would be a lot better. This would help acceleration and gas mileage.

Does anyone know how much such a swap would cost.

[fastcar]

I always wondered too what would be needed to do such a swap. Two more gears in a Marauder would be a lot better. This would help acceleration and gas mileage.

Does anyone know how much such a swap would cost.

Exactly. Imagine running a 3.08 rear gear, so your motor would be would loaf along on the highway, but out of the hole, it would have the equivalent of a 4.56 rearend! That would be totally awesome!:coolman:

Plus, you wouldn't get huge RPM drops between shifts, meaning your engine would stay in the power band, and accelerate even quicker. The only penalty would be weight. But, it would get better gas mileage, and have faster acceleration, so who cares!

I think the COST would be low, in terms of finding a donor truck to get the tranny out of, and doing a physical install: crossmember, slip yoke, possibly driveshaft.

The question is THE ELECTRONICS. Thats the realy query.

Does any one know anything about this???

fastcar:burnout:

[mrjones]

I think the whole Explorer powertrain is the way to go: 292hp 3V engine with the 6speed auto - and regular gas to boot!

[fastcar]

Gear Ratios
1st Gear 4.17:1
2nd Gear 2.34:1
3rd Gear 1.52:1
4th Gear 1.14:1
5th Gear 0.86:1
6th Gear 0.69:1

Just found this on the 6R.

There is a bigger % drop between 1st and 2nd, than on the 5R55S (still less than on the 4R70W), but it's got 6 speeds, so, that might make it worth it;)

If you have a 4.56 rear gear in your Marauder, you have a 12.95:1 1st gear ratio. You can get that kind of performance using this transmission with a 3.08 rear gear!!!

fastcar:burnout:

[fastcar]

I think the whole Explorer powertrain is the way to go: 292hp 3V engine with the 6speed auto - and regular gas to boot!

Hmm. Them's fightin words! ;) You've got a lot of folks here (including me) proud to have 4V engines in their rides. The 32 Valve 4.6 Modular engine represents the pinnacle of Ford Engine Design. It's the ULTIMATE mod motor. The 3V technology was a cost cutting compromise, between a need to improve power over the 2V, without incurring the costs associated with the 4V. Well, we've already paid for ours, so, I think we want to be keeping 'em. :D

fastcar:burnout:

[GreekGod]

You've got a lot of folks here (including me) proud to have 4V engines in their rides...

...Some of us have no reverence or loyalty to engine families or design...


...The 32 Valve 4.6 Modular engine represents the pinnacle of Ford Engine Design. It's the ULTIMATE mod motor....fastcar......The soon to be new "Hurricane" engine will hopefully obsolete all prior Ford engine design...

[lastdaze04]

What's the Hurricane engine??? Never Heard of it

[GreekGod]

What's the Hurricane engine??? Never Heard of it
It is Ford's newest V8 gasoline engine, overhead cam(s?), that is supposed to debut in the F-series trucks first. Also been rumored/referred to as "Boss", it should allow up to 7 liter displacement.

Ford seems to be keeping details secret, but (I think Roush) had a prototype in a Mustang at the Milan racetrack this summer.

Some rumors are on Blue Oval Forums:

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?

[GreekGod]

Australian 7-speed:

http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2535811.aspx

Blue Oval discussion:

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12656

[Aren Jay]

CVT from a Fivehundred.

No RPM drop and with a powerful engine you can have lots of fun.

[fastcar]

Australian 7-speed:

http://www.carpoint.com.au/car-review/2535811.aspx

Blue Oval discussion:

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12656


Wow, it's amazing the things you don't know you don't know...

ZF 6 speed autos behind Australian Mod motors? I believe they may even have paddle shifters???

And DSI to replace them with better, less expensive versions?

This sounds like a dream come true. I'm surprised no one is selling these things aftermarket in the U.S. for V-8s.

This is something to think about...

fastcar:burnout:

[GreekGod]

Getrag

<!-- start content --><TABLE class="infobox vcard" style="FONT-SIZE: 90%; WIDTH: 23em"><TBODY><TR><TH class="fn n org" style="FONT-SIZE: 120%; TEXT-ALIGN: center" colSpan=2>GETRAG</TH></TR><TR class=note><TH style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75em; TEXT-ALIGN: right">Type (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Types_of_companies)</TH><TD>Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation)</TD></TR><TR class=note><TH style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75em; TEXT-ALIGN: right">Founded</TH><TD>Ludwigsburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwigsburg), Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) (1935)</TD></TR><TR><TH style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75em; TEXT-ALIGN: right">Headquarters</TH><TD class=adr>Untergruppenbach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untergruppenbach), Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany)</TD></TR><TR class=note><TH style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75em; TEXT-ALIGN: right">Key people</TH><TD>Dieter Schlenkermann, CEO/Director
Tobias Hagenmeyer, President
Hans-Jürgen Förster, CFO
</TD></TR><TR class=note><TH style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75em; TEXT-ALIGN: right">Industry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry)</TH><TD>Auto parts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_parts) supplier</TD></TR><TR class=note><TH style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75em; TEXT-ALIGN: right">Products (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_%28business%29)</TH><TD>Automobile transmissions
Automobile axles
</TD></TR><TR class=note><TH style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75em; TEXT-ALIGN: right">Employees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment)</TH><TD>10,065 (as of June 30 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_30), 2006)</TD></TR><TR><TH style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75em; TEXT-ALIGN: right">Website (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Website)</TH><TD class=url>http://www.getrag.com (http://www.getrag.com/)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
GETRAG is a leading manufacturer of automobile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile) manual transmissions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission). The company was founded on 1 May (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1) 1935 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1935) in Ludwigsburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwigsburg), Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) by Hermann Hagenmeyer as the Getriebe- und Zahnradfabrik Hermann Hagenmeyer AG. Today, the company is allied with the Dana Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Corporation), Volvo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo) and the Ford Motor Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company), but supplies transmissions to most auto manufacturers including General Motors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors), DaimlerChrysler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DaimlerChrysler), Fiat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat), Porsche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche), BMW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW) and Toyota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota). Chief competitors include Aisin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisin_Seiki_Co.%2C_Ltd.) and ZF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_Friedrichshafen_AG).
GETRAG recently entered into two new alliances with Ford and DaimlerChrysler to produce the Dual Clutch Powershift Transmission at two new plants in North America - one in Tipton, IN and the other in Mexico; production will begin in 2008 for DCx (Tipton, IN), 2009 for Ford (Mexico) and then an additional DCx volume out of Mexico in 2010. The temporary headquarters for the new division, GETRAG Transmissions Corporation (or GTC), is located in Sterling Heights, MI. The permanent headquarters will be constructed by end of 2008 at another suburb of Detroit.
The Dual Clutch Transmission combines the advantages of a manual and an automatic transmission, and is more energy efficient than either. Shifting between gears will be unnoticable to passengers. Two main versions will be produced: a "wet" clutch version which utilizes hydraulic fluid for shifting and a "dry" clutch version which uses electronic motors to control the clutch.

[MarauderSM]

Just another option out there. You an go with a gearvendors unit that splits gears on the 4-speed turning it to an 8-speed. I brought the topic up earlier this summer, but it was said that for $2500 there are a lot more cost effective mods you can purchase. But looking at your idea of swapping trans, computer wiring, maybe an computer controller too, this may seem like a bargain or more cost effective way for more gears.
website: gearvendors.com

[MarauderSM]

Also they are a high horsepower rated piece. I think up to 1200hp.

[fastcar]

Another interesting alternative, thanks for the suggestion.

After reading the website, I see the piece is the highest quality, planetary, auxiliary automatic 2-speed transmission.

I don't think, however, that I will have a true 8 speed transmission. I think I would gain a 5th gear, under 1st or over 4th.

Let's say we use it as an overdrive. We start in stock 1st gear, then shift the unit, so now we are in 1st-plus. The next possible ratio would be stock 2nd, unit 1st, so both transmissions would have to shift at the same time, in opposite directions.

EVEN IF this is available in their product, I'm not sure I like that idea...

As far as $2500 being a lot to spend, with other bolt-ons offering more performance, that can be said. But, beside the motor, the transmission is really the interface between man and motor. It puts the power to the pavement, and to a very large extent generates the driver's experience with the motor/track. This can't be overstated. Bad transmission=bad experience.

I run into my transmissions limitations everyday I drive it. I could use more 1st gear. God knows, I could use less RPMs when I just want to cruise. And the drops between gears are too much. These transmissions have been made since 1979. 1979! Think about that. They are nearly 30 year old technology. Even in 2004, when our car was new, a lot of other guys got to drive tiptronic 5 or 6 speed transmissions. I just don't get why we can have something like this. It's bizarre.

Even our Aussie friends driving Fords have them behind Mod motors...
I want a paddle shifted 6 or 7 speed auto like they have, and a kit to put on in. We should be able to get the transmission from a boneyard, and the kit from a supplier, with electronics.

fastcar:burnout:

[wchain]

Why would you want that tranny in our car? It would fall apart in no time, it has lower torque ratings than the 4R70W. The 5R55 is a Ford Ranger tranny. The only reason why it is in a Mustang is because of the light weight.
+100000X!!

5R55 is evolved from a 4R55, which came from a 4R44 which is a A4LD. Ask anyone that has owned an Aerostar or Explorer (pre 94) and they will tell you all the fun those transmissions are. I'll take a 4R70W/75W any day, its a very robust transmission.

While we're fantasizing, why not a 5R110W from the Super Duty?



Now the new 6R's in the Explorer would be a good choice. That's the 4R70 unit with two more cogs.
I don't believe the 6R60 used in the Explorer is a 4R70 with 2 more gears....

The parts of 6R60 are actually very similar with ZF 6HP26, and the Structure of 6R60 and 6HP is the same, don't think that Ford developed the 6R60, but just produces 6R60 in Ford's Plant.


Here's the Gear ratios on the 6R60 vs 4R70W
<table x-use-null-cells="" style="border-collapse: collapse; background-color: silver; border-bottom-color: black;" fpstyle="9,011111100" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="385"><tbody><tr style="" valign="top"><td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; border-bottom: 1px solid black; font-weight: bold; color: white; background-color: maroon;" align="center" width="95">Trans Model</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; border-bottom: 1px solid black; font-weight: bold; color: white; background-color: maroon;" align="center" width="50"> First</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; border-bottom: 1px solid black; font-weight: bold; color: white; background-color: maroon;" align="center" width="50"> Second</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; border-bottom: 1px solid black; font-weight: bold; color: white; background-color: maroon;" align="center" width="50"> Third</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; border-bottom: 1px solid black; font-weight: bold; color: white; background-color: maroon;" align="center" width="50"> Fourth</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; border-bottom: 1px solid black; font-weight: bold; color: white; background-color: maroon;" align="center" width="51"> Fifth</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; border-bottom: 1px solid black; font-weight: bold; color: white; background-color: maroon;" align="center" width="51"> Sixth</td></tr></tbody></table><table x-use-null-cells="" style="border-collapse: collapse; background-color: silver; border-bottom-color: black;" fpstyle="9,011111100" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="19" width="381"><tbody><tr><td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; font-weight: bold; color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="95">6R60</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="50"> 4.17</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="50"> 2.34</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="50"> 1.52</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="50"> 1.14</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="51"> 0.87</td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 1px; color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="51"> 0.69</td></tr></tbody></table><table x-use-null-cells="" style="border-collapse: collapse; background-color: silver; border-bottom-color: black;" fpstyle="9,011111100" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="18" width="303"><tbody><tr style="" valign="top"><td style="font-weight: bold; color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="92">4R70W</td> <td valign="top">
</td><td style="color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="59">2.84</td> <td style="color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="59">1.55</td> <td style="color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="60">1.00</td> <td style="color: black; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 239);" align="center" width="60">0.70</td></tr></tbody></table>


I run into my transmissions limitations everyday I drive it. I could use more 1st gear. God knows, I could use less RPMs when I just want to cruise. And the drops between gears are too much. These transmissions have been made since 1979. 1979! Think about that. They are nearly 30 year old technology. Even in 2004, when our car was new, a lot of other guys got to drive tiptronic 5 or 6 speed transmissions. I just don't get why we can have something like this. It's bizarre.

Quite simple. For one, the 4R70 series is a very robust transmission, two, like everything, its evolved, From the AOD, to the AOD-E, then 4R70W and 75W and on and on. Why mess with a good base?


You want to know what a 5R55 Tramission is? Its an evolved C3 Tranmission used in the Ford PINTO. Turned into the A4LD by adding an overdrive gear. Then the 4R44E was an A4LD with full Electronic Control, then the 4R55E which was more robust, and then the 5R55. So, this one has been around BEFORE 1979!

Problem is, even though we don't want to admit it, the panther platform is a dying breed. High profit margins due to Ford wh0ring the panther to Police departments and Rental companies for a car that looks almost the same since 1998. Local Ford Dealers have 100 explorers, expeditions, F Series, and maybe 1 or 2 Crown Vics on the lot. The Mercury Dealer has 12 or 15 GMs, half LS, half GS. The basic GS's get sold in the paper every weekend for $15,999. Best value out there for a new car. Its like the Ford Econoline and Ranger, both high profit, high volume vehicles. Ford spends the minimum amount of money on them because they feel that consumers will not go out and actively shop for a new one, yet fleets buy them because they are reliable as the day is long and the operating cost is relatively inexpensive, due to reliabilty and the availability of parts.


Sorry for the rant. I'm just frustrated that Ford is going to let the panther go the way of the 86-07 Taurus and let it die on the vine. She deserves better than that.

*Dreams of a 3V Crown Vic with a 5R110W*

[larryo340]

Sorry for the rant. I'm just frustrated that Ford is going to let the panther go the way of the 86-07 Taurus and let it die on the vine. She deserves better than that.

*Dreams of a 3V Crown Vic with a 5R110W*
I hear you, and agree also. Ford will probably realize they screwed up and then bring it back as something else.

When Ford killed the Lincoln Continental in '02 (after they finally made the car right) people here on Long Island were not happy, when we asked the reps why they told us that the Continental only sold in the New York City and Long Island markets. They also told us that the Bronco also had to go away for the same reason. I'd buy another Bronco today if they made them, I don't need a pickup, and for a truck that hasn't been made since '96 there are still alot of them on the Island.

[fastcar]

You want to know what a 5R55 Tramission is? Its an evolved C3 Tranmission used in the Ford PINTO. Turned into the A4LD by adding an overdrive gear. Then the 4R44E was an A4LD with full Electronic Control, then the 4R55E which was more robust, and then the 5R55. So, this one has been around BEFORE 1979!

The current 5R55S is surviving very well behind Lidio's blown Mustang motors that are putting out 500+ RWHP. He has had NO PROBLEMS yet. I'll never break one behind my N/A motor...

It WON'T BREAK, has another gear, and there is a PI converter for it, to boot. These are all compelling reasons to entertain it.

You know, the 4R70W didn't always enjoy a good reputation. When it was an AOD, they would break behind high HP small blocks. And, FYI, they go way before 1979, too, when they were called THE FMX. NO ONE WOULD EVEN CONSIDER USING THIS TRANSMISSION IN A PERFORMANCE FORD. Everyone had to have a C4. They wouldn't even think about it.

Which reminds me of our conversation now. You probably have no evidence that they are breaking any more than the 4R70Ws, but you just hate their origins, the same way everyone used to hate the AODs beginnings as a evolved FMX.

Based on the current reliability of the transmission, I would have to consider a 5R55S, if the install was straight forward, and there were NOT better alternatives.

But, I think there may be better alternatives, which have been mentioned by you and others in this thread.

But is anyone using them?

I just can't understand why none of them are being installed behind performance Fords. It's really strange.

No one would like a paddle shifted 5, 6 or 7 speed tranny behind their Mod motor?

It does'nt have to be a 5R55S, it could be one of the Aussie boxes, or the 6R?

IS ANYONE USING A MORE MODERN AUTOMATIC IN THEIR U.S. FORD?

fastcar:burnout: