Advice on servicing trans?

[Local Boy]

:wave:Hello Everyove,

I'm setting up to install a new T/C (will send it to a shop), and was wondering if I should have some things checked or replaced., while its out.

As you can see I have an "A" with 40,000 miles on the clock. It dosen't leak, and seems just fine, in terms of its operation (no complaints). Are there serviceable parts that should be replaced as "insurance" for continued smooth operation? Bearings/washers/seals????

Moreover, with regard to the rear cooling kit...Is it necessary to have one for a N/A car that's a DD, and rarely raced?

Thanks for the help...

ALOHA:wave:

[Dennis Reinhart]

:wave:Hello Everyove,

I'm setting up to install a new T/C (will send it to a shop), and was wondering if I should have some things checked or replaced., while its out.

As you can see I have an "A" with 40,000 miles on the clock. It dosen't leak, and seems just fine, in terms of its operation (no complaints). Are there serviceable parts that should be replaced as "insurance" for continued smooth operation? Bearings/washers/seals????

Moreover, with regard to the rear cooling kit...Is it necessary to have one for a N/A car that's a DD, and rarely raced?

Thanks for the help...

ALOHA:wave:

I would find a BG dealer and have the transmission flushed using there flush machine wich will also flush the converter.

[Local Boy]

Thanks Dennis...Will do...

I take that, as there are no parts in which i should replace as "cheap insurance".

ALOHA

[wchain]

Just my 2 cents, with 40K on the clock, and you replacing the converter (where MOST of the fluid cannot be drained when you drop the pan), I think spending money on a flush is not needed.

If it were my car, I would drop the pan, remove the dreidel that sits in the pan, and put a new filter on (your gasket should be a reusable one), and clean the magnet in the pan, clean the gasket mounting surfaces and pan, and reassemble everything. Look at the fluid again at 75,000 miles.

FWIW, here's an article on fluid flushing....http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/fluid-flush-fallacy/20060505115609990001

Heres another article from BG's website

http://www.bgflorida.com/news.html

Let’s now look at why your store should be selling the service:The Bottom Line
The average selling price of a complete induction service $139.95
The average flat rate hour for the service 1 hour
The average service gross profit 65%
Parts mark up 40%
Technician efficiency 200%
Selling opportunity
Sold every 15,000 miles or annually
1 service/technician/day
5 techs 10 techs 15 techs
sales/day $699.75 $1,399.50 $2,099.25
sales/week $4,199.70 $8,397.00 $12,595.50
sales/month $16,794.00 $33,588.00 $50,382.00
service
profit/month $10,916.10 $21,832.20 $32,748.30
This is good business and not pie in the sky. For any store that actively sells this service, the margins are very good based on opportunity.
In a 10 technician shop, there will be 60+ vehicles seen each day. Out of those 60, 30 will be due for a fuel service. If you ask for 30 sales, you will get 10.
Your BG team will train the sales staff to look for the service, promote the service, ask for the sale, and track the activity.
Retail Sales
Aftermarket fuel products generate the largest dollar sales for automotive products in gas stations. Why shouldn’t you be a part of that business? By simply offering a solution at the parts counter and the cashier you can increase that impulse purchase. BG has point of purchase material plus we will train the counter sales people on how to make the sale.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Just my 2 cents, with 40K on the clock, and you replacing the converter (where MOST of the fluid cannot be drained when you drop the pan), I think spending money on a flush is not needed.



Well Wess, I disagree the BG flush machine will displace and flush the entire transmission including the torque converter. I have one, I use it all the time, you load the machine with 16 quarts of the transmission fluid of your choice, and add a special cleaner and start the car up after connecting the lines to the transmission cooling lines, and this machine will push out all 12 quarts out of the transmission, then when complete the transmission is completely flushed. Most Police agencies use this as well as all the car dealerships.


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=620 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center width=200 rowSpan=3>http://www.bgprod.com/products/images/PF5.jpg




</TD><TD class=cataloghead vAlign=bottom colSpan=2>BG PF5
Power Flush and Fluid Exchange System



</TD></TR><TR><TD class=catalogcontent vAlign=top colSpan=2>The BG PF5 Power Flush and Fluid Exchange System dissolves and removes harmful deposits from criti-cal transmission components and exchanges the old, oxidized ATF for new fluid of the exact specifications required by the car manufacturer in about 5–7 minutes. No other equipment is simpler to operate. Once the connection is made between the BG PF5 and the vehicle, the operator turns on the process.

The BG PF5 is fully automatic and requires no further monitoring. There are no adjustments required, no tanks to monitor and the transmission remains full throughout the process. When the exchange is complete the unit simply goes on bypass and sends the incoming new fluid through its normal route back to the transmission. The old fluid is safely captured inside the unit where it will remain until it’s time to refill for the next service.

The BG PF5 has no power supply of any kind and no scheduled maintenance is required. It comes complete with all the adaptors needed to hook up to almost any type of vehicle. It can be recharged just before the next service, allowing the unit to be loaded with the exact spec fluid required for each service. Recharging takes only a couple of minutes and can be done from a pressurized ATF source or it can be filled manually quite easily. With a footprint of only 29" x 14," it’s the perfect system for a crowded shop.



</TD></TR><TR><TD class=catalogcontent width=150>Part No. PF5
Part No. PF5MO
Part No. PF5HO




</TD><TD class=catalogcontent width=270>
Metered Output model
High Output model for low-flow transmissions

Here is another very good machine BG sells

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=620 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center width=200 rowSpan=3>
http://www.bgprod.com/products/images/PF7-machine.jpg


</TD><TD class=cataloghead vAlign=bottom colSpan=2>BG PF7
Brake Service System
</TD></TR><TR><TD class=catalogcontent vAlign=top colSpan=2>Operation of disc brakes creates extremely high temperatures which can cause rapid oxidation of the brake fluid. New Anti-lock Brake Systems (ABS) are sensitive to this fluid deterioration. Deposit and varnish buildup can lead to serious malfunction of the braking system as well. For this reason, some auto manufacturers are making regular flushing and fluid replacement a requirement of brake system maintenance. The BG PF7 will quickly and effectively flush all oxidized and corrosive fluid from the entire braking system. A visible indicator tells the technician when it needs refilling, to prevent the unit from running out of fluid during service. Used brake fluid is captured and contained in a 2.5 gallon jug that is suitable for storage until the fluid can be recycled. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=catalogcontent width=150>Part No. PF7 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[wchain]

Let me also add that FORD DOES NOT and HAS NOT EVER recommended flushing the transmission on a 4R70W Transmission.

Flush machines do what they say; they force high pressure cleaning solvents back through the transmission and clean out some of the accumulated junk that has formed. Now transmissions small passages and galleries through which ATF flows and there are one-way valves that keep the fluids from backtracking for whatever reason. By using an aggressive cleaning procedure like flushing, large chunks of accumulated sludge are broken off and forced backwards through these galleries and valves and, more often than not, lodge tightly and block them. This cuts off the normal flow of the fluid and causes lack of lubrication in a trans, and abnormal or no shifting in a transmission. The results are expensive repairs, or more often, transmission replacement.


Repair shops like Flushing fluids because it is HIGH profit and low labor.
You hook the lines up and walk away, an hour passes and voila, you're charging a customer 179.99 for a ATF flush. Most shops don't even use Mercon V, they use Mercon III with a Mercon V additive.

With the advent of modern fluids, what your main concern is the additive package in the ATF wearing out and heat damage to the fluid. Changing PART of the fluid renews the additive package and replacing the filter helps keep things clean. I have a car with 277,000 miles right now. I know the maintenance history, and I know, for a FACT, that the transmission fluid has never been flushed. Every 30,000 miles, the pan was dropped, fluid was changed and topped off. I have ZERO problems with it.

Bottom line is, flushing fluid is a waste of money IMO vs dropping the pan and replacing the filter, and topping things off.

Auto repair shops like flushing machines because they yield high profit and low workhours. Why do you think every dealer in the world has a bunch of BG, Wynns, or Everwear flush Machines?


From the Wynn's Professional website

Services mean profits for your business. Cars today are too complicated for the do-it-yourselfer, and your customers trust you to take care of their vehicles. If you don't ask for the service - someone else will! The Wynn's service program means profits for you and more money for your techs and service writers.

Auto technicians like it because they can hook the machine up, walk away and work on another vehicle, and flag multiple hours at the same time.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I respect your opinion and totaly dissagree, this machine does not have any way to force flluid it. The BG PF5 has no power supply of any kind. Again I respect your opinin. I have mine as well.

[MERCMAN]

Claude,care to weigh in here??

[Dennis Reinhart]

Claude,care to weigh in here??

I will page Scott Levine

[frdwrnch]

Using a transmission flush machine such as the BG unit is the b est way to fully discharge contaminated fluid. While ford does not directly condone use of a flush machine for maintenance, they will void a warranty claim in a heartbeat if you don't install a filter kit and replace the trans cooler on a tranmission waranty repeat repair. Your question is what is the BEST preventative maintenance while you're in there. My opinion would be to flush the system first, replace your upgraded components as well as the filter and that should have you covered as far as preventive maintenance goes. You can always do more invasive upgrades such as rear lube tube kits and updated one-way roller sprag but how far do you want to go?
At the dealer level, we always use Motorcraft Mercon V in these transmissions. It is a high detergent synthetic transmission fluid. If you have done your maintenance in a timely fasion there is no "accumulated junk" to lodge in the valve body pasaages. While some services are BS, A trans service is not. It's the only way to prevent trans "shudder" from occurring. I work on a lot of police vehicles and I know this for a fact.

[lastdaze04]

I went to my ford dealership in Palestine Tx. He also Drag Races. He has a transmission flush machine. He said if you keep it flushed regularly you won't have a problem. He does his 8sec mustang and his other 9sec mustang regularly and he hasn't had a problem. He said there would not be any problems with my s/c MM. I figure if its good enough for him and he will stand behind his work, it is good enough for me. FWIW

[freakstatus]

I just had my transmission flushed yesterday...quite an impressive machine. He propped it up right in front of me so I could see the old stuff coming out and the new stuff going in. How often is "regularly"? After how many miles/kms should we be getting this done? This is the first time I've done this since I bought the car back in May....I've put 8000 kms on since then (daily driver).

[JohnE]

:wave:Hello Everyove,

I'm setting up to install a new T/C (will send it to a shop), and was wondering if I should have some things checked or replaced., while its out.

As you can see I have an "A" with 40,000 miles on the clock. It doesn't leak, and seems just fine, in terms of its operation (no complaints). Are there serviceable parts that should be replaced as "insurance" for continued smooth operation? Bearings/washers/seals????

Moreover, with regard to the rear cooling kit...Is it necessary to have one for a N/A car that's a DD, and rarely raced?

Thanks for the help...

ALOHA:wave:


Are you going for a higher stall torque converter? If so, consider adding an additional transmission cooler in series with the stock unit. Since you're pulling the converter, dropping the pan too would get 90% of the fluid out. I'd clean up the friction material off of the surfaces inside the pan area. Clean the magnet and replace the filter if there is any material lodged in it.

The 4R70W is a very durable unit with regular Mercon V changes. Putting new Mercon V replaces the friction modifier. This is the part of the fluid that does get used up. Similar need that the clutches in the rear end trac-lok every so often.

I have 160,000 miles on my stock transmission. I've never touched any of the friction material. Only performed the j-mod to the valve body, replaced the snap ring with a spiral lock and a CircleD high stall converter. (Also added a trans cooler.) I have replaced the fluid by draining the tc and dropping the pan every 15-20k of its life. The car had a blower installed at 50k running mid 14's and upgraded to 13's at 70k. I just went to the track Friday and made 5 impressive 1/4 mile runs in total street form. Over the summer I towed my boat from Texas to Florida and back ~75mph. I'm highly impressed with my 4R70W, its still performing well after serious use. It's never been 'flushed'.



John

[jimlam56]

Replace your stock pan with an E350 one, so you can drain it easily in the future.

[Local Boy]

Not surprising...Different opinions as to flush or not...I really appreciate all your thoughts and help on this matter...

I always look at both sides of the issue, so I can make an educated choice...

You guys are GREAT! That's what I like to see...Two different opinions, with NO animosity toward the other. I respect each of you even more!!!

I only wish I could reach out and shake your hand (all of you) because words just can't express how grateful I'am to have all of you in my corner, supporting me... THANK YOU

I hope one day I can return the favor...

ALOHA

BTW: Where can I get a E350 pan?

[RF Overlord]

I think there is some confusion over the term "flush". Wes says that Ford has never recommended flushing a 4R70W. My Marauder service manual clearly states that the correct way to change the fluid is with a fluid exchange machine. Like this one (http://www.cloreautomotive.com/site_prod.asp?sku_pk=151). I agree with him that any machine that uses an external source of pressure, or one that adds a solvent or cleaner of any kind is to be avoided. The one referenced in the link uses the transmission's own pump to push the old fluid out while simultaneously pulling the fresh fluid in. I believe this is also the way the BG machine Dennis mentions works.This method has long been recognised as the only safe way to fully exchange ALL the fluid in the cooler, the torque converter, and the transmission itself.

I do also agree that regular pan-drops on any transmission are a huge benefit, for the reasons mentioned, and if performed at intervals appropriate for the use the car gets should be all that is necessary.

Local Boy, that pan can be obtained from Dennis, Wes, or Ray "The Dealer".

*edit* I forgot that you're offshore...shipping costs may be prohibitive so you can also get that pan from your local dealer. P/N F8UZ-7A194-AA.

[Local Boy]

RF Overlord...It's always a pleasure reading your posts...I learn so much...

Thanks soooo much for the info...

I remain very grateful for your support and friendship...

ALOHA

[wchain]

I think there is some confusion over the term "flush". Wes says that Ford has never recommended flushing a 4R70W. My Marauder service manual clearly states that the correct way to change the fluid is with a fluid exchange machine. Like this one (http://www.cloreautomotive.com/site_prod.asp?sku_pk=151). I agree with him that any machine that uses an external source of pressure, or one that adds a solvent or cleaner of any kind is to be avoided. The one referenced in the link uses the transmission's own pump to push the old fluid out while simultaneously pulling the fresh fluid in. I believe this is also the way the BG machine Dennis mentions works.This method has long been recognised as the only safe way to fully exchange ALL the fluid in the cooler, the torque converter, and the transmission itself.

I do also agree that regular pan-drops on any transmission are a huge benefit, for the reasons mentioned, and if performed at intervals appropriate for the use the car gets should be all that is necessary.

Local Boy, that pan can be obtained from Dennis, Wes, or Ray "The Dealer".


Thanks Bob!



*edit* I forgot that you're offshore...shipping costs may be prohibitive so you can also get that pan from your local dealer. P/N F8UZ-7A194-AA.

Don't Forget, I ship to Hawaii for free on 98% of the stuff I sell :)

[lucenti]

questoin! I have been disconnecting the return line to the tranny. attaching a hose to the hose comming from the tranny cooler, while my friend has the hose going into marked 4qrt jugs, i pour new fluid where the dip stick goes, another guy sits in the car and puts it in drive. foot on brake. 18qrt's +2 for the hell of it. begining dirty fluid , end nice color of red. i know nothing about trannys. is this proceedure OK.

question if i add a hose to the metal side of the return line will the tranny suck the fluid in?