Educate me on superchargers

[JonW]

If the deal on the Shelby doesn't go thru, and I keep my Marauder, I want to look into supercharging it. But I'm a noob in that area. It will need to be professionally installed, and keeping my motor intact is a huge priority.

I live in MO, and would prefer to not travel a great distance.

[freakstatus]

Its basically a separate device that attaches to your engine to force air into it for more power.

[finster101]

The Trilogy is the simplest and cleanest looking install IMO.

[Marauderjack]

FIT......Kansas City......Inexpensive installation.....GREAT tuner (Dave Lamberson).......What more can I say......Oh yes......YeeeeeHaw......VROOOO OOM!!!!!!:burnout:

Marauderjack:D

[Bradley G]

I went the PD route, after trying both styles.
I instantly liked the OEM look of the Trilogy, driving it closed the deal.
Any specific questions?

[sailsmen]

The best education is the search function.

A good book is SUPERCHARGED! by Bell.

You have centrifigual which for us is Procharger/FIT and Vortec/Reinhart. You have positive displacement which is Roots Eaton /Trilogy.

In the cent you have Air to Air and also Water to Air in the Vortec.

I have seen debated adnauseum the performance benefits of the two systems, ( cent vs pd). Whats interesting is that in the real world of performance the difference in the tuning, individual car and driver far out way any difference in performance between the two systems.

The old arguments between the pros/cons of the 2 systems just don't play out in the real world. There are other variables that have a greater impact.

I race and the Water to Air Cent is the choice for me. The S/C is upgradeable for a reasonable amount of money. The power builds through the rpm's. The water to air minimizes heat soak in back to back passes. Our engines have the ability to flow large volumes, just look at the size of the heads and a cent is well suited for this.

[hidperf]

If the deal on the Shelby doesn't go thru, and I keep my Marauder, I want to look into supercharging it. But I'm a noob in that area. It will need to be professionally installed, and keeping my motor intact is a huge priority.

I live in MO, and would prefer to not travel a great distance.

Where in MO? I'm in STL.

[Breadfan]

If keeping your motor intact is a high priority then either way you go you'll most likely want to stick to stock boost levels and safe tuning. So, peak performance kit-to-kit is probably not a huge debating point, and even if it were, each kit has strong points in this area. So in your case it probably boils down more to the stock offerrings of each kit rather than pulley or s/c unit upgrades.

My personal experience with the Trilogy kit is that it is extremely well engineered, well fitting, well manufactured, very reliable, and great out of the box. There is alot of engineering in this kit that makes this s/c "system" integrate flawlessly into the existing Marauder drivetrain "system."

There is not one single thing that would prevent me from recommending this system to a friend.

I have no doubt others feel the same way about whatever kit they have and I respect that and am not questioning them at all, I'm simply sharing my personal experience.

[Dragcity]

Wow, I have to say, you guys have come a long way. Breadfan, how eloquent !

'Tis true, each person with a supercharger is happy with their set-up.

Now me, I'm just "Joey Bag-O-Donunts" with no power adder.

In my humblest opinion, it boils down to how you want it to look. They all perform really well and each has a great bunch of folks supporting it. Everyone has done a great job in this area.

Have fun no matter what you decide, and the decision would be hard for me.

[MarauderTJA]

Times have changed in the S/C world around here for the positive..:up:

[Dr Caleb]

I feel like I stepped into an alternate universe. One where Spock doesn't have the beard.

[merc]

If keeping your motor intact is a high priority then either way you go you'll most likely want to stick to stock boost levels and safe tuning.

It's been over a year and I have not changed the boost level to accommodate my driving habits. Before going down the path of supercharging your ride remind yourself of your goals. Quietly, I have been told by several S/C owners that they should have keep the car stock. Don't get me wrong, boost is a blast. Excessive boost is costly and is a bad addiction and seems endless at times. :beer:

[Peter]

A supercharger is basicly a device that compresses air flowing into the engine giving a large power boost.

[sailsmen]

Once you go boost you do not go back.

Once you go to the boost side there is no turning back.

Boost is so good it should be illegal.

Merc is right the need for more speed is an addiction.

I went w/ one of the stock S/C kits and made it to 95K and 184 runs down the 1,320'.

Had I not incorrectly assumed some lean codes were bad O2 sensors and replaced the fuel pumps sooner she would have probably gone further. She was still running strong but I knew she was near the end. The local mechan said just drive her until it gets louder.

Never smoked or burned a drop.

[Seneca]

Once you go boost you do not go back.

Once you go to the boost side there is no turning back.

Boost is so good it should be illegal.

Merc is right the need for more speed is an addiction.

I went w/ one of the stock S/C kits and made it to 95K and 184 runs down the 1,320'.

Had I not incorrectly assumed some lean codes were bad O2 sensors and replaced the fuel pumps sooner she would have probably gone further. She was still running strong but I knew she was near the end. The local mechan said just drive her until it gets louder.

Never smoked or burned a drop. The thought has crossed my mind to go back to stock more then once.

[FordNut]

A supercharger is basicly a device that compresses air flowing into the engine giving a large power boost.

Also: A supercharger is a device that liberates large sums of cash from the wallet.

[Bradley G]

Tell us why.

The thought has crossed my mind to go back to stock more then once.

[BlownMerc]

I did find out there is a replacement for displacement. My Eaton-powered Merc is as much fun to drive as the 03 Mach1 I sold to rid myself of car payment and the need to worry about door dings and the kiddies ruining a good thing. I'm only .4 seconds slower than the Mach was, with one third the money and sucker alot more people into playing around than with the rolling flashing sign that the Azure blue Mach seemed to be.

Positive displacement is a blast to drive compared to the centrifugals, both do a great job of building power but the bottom end torque provided by the p/d is second to none in a heavy car. I only wish I had the fourvalve heads as an additional advantage...maybe someday at least a healthy port job. I have a 14lb. pulley on the way for Christmas. It is addictive...but at least I can't be arrested for owning it. Now using it is a different discussion.

[lastdaze04]

Just want to chime in. I have had both and I will say for my MM, I like the Trilogy the best. On my Mustang which is lighter I like the Cent better. On my MM I have no stall converter and stock gears, and I can with the Trilogy smoke :burn:the AA traction rated tires from here to Timbuktu:eek:. FWIW.
Rick

[younga1]

Go with the GMC!!! What's so bad about a hole in the hood?

[sailsmen]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21306

[JonW]

Thanks for the input. Here's some more questions:

With 4.10 gears and a 3000 stall, I'm probably not going to get traction, right? So I'll need to go with widened wheels and Nittos?

What about the stock driveshaft? Transmission? Are they going to hold up?

I don't want to get into a situation where I spend $5K on a blower and then have to spend several thousand more on peripheral upgrades.

[MarauderMark]

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0411mm_super/index.html

[rumble]

Thanks for the input. Here's some more questions:

With 4.10 gears and a 3000 stall, I'm probably not going to get traction, right? So I'll need to go with widened wheels and Nittos?

What about the stock driveshaft? Transmission? Are they going to hold up?

I don't want to get into a situation where I spend $5K on a blower and then have to spend several thousand more on peripheral upgrades.

Here's my take (FWIW) I have a stock Trilogy with widened wheels and Nitto 295"s.
Stock 3.55 gears, 2500 stall TC. Traction is definitely an issue. Before you change the gears try it with just the supercharger.

The reason I went with the Trilogy is the low end grunt and the stock appearance.

You ask about transmissions and such? My transmission came apart the very first time I stood on it. Most guy's have had much better luck than that. My thought is any time you mod your car you need to be in a position financially to take care of possible problems. Not necessarily have the cash in your pocket but at least something else to drive and a plan to come up with the money if bad things happen.

Boost is addictive so be careful. My only regret is I waited 3 years to go with the Trilogy. If I could go back in time I would have done it the day I brought the car home. It is truly a different car with the boost.

What ever you decide, good luck. You will definitely enjoy it.

:beer:

[sailsmen]

The best bang/reliability for the buck 4:10, 3,000 Stall, exhaust and a tune.

On a cool day you have a 13 second car and the other components s/b fine.

[JonW]

The best bang/reliability for the buck 4:10, 3,000 Stall, exhaust and a tune.

On a cool day you have a 13 second car and the other components s/b fine.

The more I read about S/Cs, and the expense of the unit and any associated mods, the more I think that this is a very smart statement. I already have everything except the exhaust.

[1stMerc]

JonW you've changed. That doctor did an excellent job.

[DeepSea117]

I feel like I stepped into an alternate universe. One where Spock doesn't have the beard.

Man, had to laugh at that one. :D

[cyclopsram]

Now you know why MO is the show me state... want all info for nuffin...with no basic research.

[sailsmen]

W/ an S/C you will be able to experience that feeling when you pull up next to a late model Corvette at the track and beat him in front of hundreds of people knowing he will be making an appointment w/ a urologists to find it!:D

[Bradley G]

You could achieve similar track results just by bolting on a Trilogy.
The costs would be close, and the driveibility , NVH & mileage would be a lot closer to stock.
That is with the exception of the the whine from the supercharger.


The best bang/reliability for the buck 4:10, 3,000 Stall, exhaust and a tune.

On a cool day you have a 13 second car and the other components s/b fine.

[sailsmen]

I think the prices are 4:10 - $200 / Xcal - $400 / PI $775 / Exhaust $1,500.

How much are the Trilogy?

[Bradley G]

While I had very little trouble installing the Trilogy kit myself,
Not many Marauder owners are going to get the gear install, converter and exhaust kit installed, with out digging deeper into the pocketo for labor.
I figured 5-600 for the gear, 11-1200 for the converter, 400 tune and 2 "Grand/Muffler" ++ for the exhaust.
This gets you pretty close to the Trilogy kit cost.
You know how much a Trilogy costs, cause you know you want one.:P
This way you can drive gramma to church, and no ones the wiser.
Your example will produce a fast Marauder, but it will not have the same docile OEM manners.
The hit on fuel mileage(regular driving) will also bring the costs up in your example.






I think the prices are 4:10 - $200 / Xcal - $400 / PI $775 / Exhaust $1,500.

How much are the Trilogy?

[sailsmen]

Last I heard the Trilogy Kit was $6,000 vs $2,875.

If you can install a Trilogy you can install exhaust and TQ.

Why would the mileage be impacted more than a Trilogy?

You can also get a Non-IC S/C for around $4,500.

It's hard to compare labor with a 100% difference in different regions.

Labor in MI for $2,000 could be $1,100 in AL.

[JonW]

[quote=Bradley G;561649]Your example will produce a fast Marauder, but it will not have the same docile OEM manners.
quote]

With my tune, my Marauder shifts more firmly than stock, but it is certainly not objectionable. Other than that, it is as docile as an OEM car. I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

[Vortech347]

I love the XTR files you can get. I setup my trans to where I like it. Its very smooth for driving clients around part throttle. Mash the gas and all hell breaks loose!!! :)

[magindat]

Thanks for the input. Here's some more questions:

With 4.10 gears and a 3000 stall, I'm probably not going to get traction, right? So I'll need to go with widened wheels and Nittos?

What about the stock driveshaft? Transmission? Are they going to hold up?

I don't want to get into a situation where I spend $5K on a blower and then have to spend several thousand more on peripheral upgrades.

Jon, you gotta bullet-proof the drive train FIRST.

If you already have 4.10's, you relly need to have the balanced drive shaft.

The 3K stall is perfect, but if you haven't upgraded the weak points int he tranny, you'll find them in short order with an SC.

What you are asking for doesn't exist.

Based on your current mods, I'd go centrifugal. I like the Procharger for the lack of tapping the engine oil. DR's Paxton is similar.

With Centrifugal, you have to get deeper into the throttle to get into boost. This takes advantage of your converter and gears. It also make the car more tame at lower throttle positions and less likely to get away from you until you really mean to pour on the power.

To see all this done at once with a minimum of fuss, I'd recommend sending the car to DR. Maybe take advantage of auto train. Dennis is very flexible. I have a complete DR driveline from rear cooling mod back. I probly would have gotten his paxton charger if he had it before I ordered my procharger. The dyno is on-site. The car will come back ready to go.

Greg (FIT) is in your area and could install and FIT kit, but you would have to take it elsewhere for the trans and shaft.

Trilogy is a beautiful install and well-working kit, but with it's low-end torque, it's easy to get away from you and it breaks stuff if you don't have everything upgraded! Although all of the kits will break stuff, I was afraid Trilogy would break stuff quicker due to it's low-end grunt.

[Bradley G]

A Trilogy powered Marauder will behave just like stock until you give the pedal a good stab.
The car modded with Exhaust, higher stall / higher gears and a hot tune will not feel or sound OEM .

The other mods will be satisfying for a short time and you will want more.


[quote=Bradley G;561649]Your example will produce a fast Marauder, but it will not have the same docile OEM manners.
quote]

With my tune, my Marauder shifts more firmly than stock, but it is certainly not objectionable. Other than that, it is as docile as an OEM car. I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

[Bradley G]

First just by the nature of how the power is created by both.
The stall is going to work when you lay your foot to the mat.
The Trilogy car gives the power without matting the pedal.

Last I heard the Trilogy Kit was $6,000 vs $2,875.

If you can install a Trilogy you can install exhaust and TQ.

Why would the mileage be impacted more than a Trilogy?

You can also get a Non-IC S/C for around $4,500.

It's hard to compare labor with a 100% difference in different regions.

Labor in MI for $2,000 could be $1,100 in AL.

[TooManyFords]

Go with the GMC!!! What's so bad about a hole in the hood?

Well said, young padowan!

http://www.cvmusclecars.com/images/jh7-640-480.jpg

[sailsmen]

[QUOTE=Bradley G;562307]A Trilogy powered Marauder will behave just like stock until you give the pedal a good stab....First just by the nature of how the power is created by both.
The stall is going to work when you lay your foot to the mat.
The Trilogy car gives the power without matting the pedal.


There seems to be a contradiction.:confused:

I drove a car w/ exhaust, tune, 4:10 and 3,000 stall for 40K. It was very docile and very much like stock. Rarely did you notice it had a 3,000 stall. The db difference was 2-3, not audible for many.

The tune, exhaust and 4:10 gears give power thru out the rpm range.

I could only detect a mileage difference of .5 on the highway and none for city.

Power is the result of fuel and air. A PD produces air early on in the rpms which also requires fuel early on in the rpms.

A stall has a TQ Multiplier w/out fuel or air, 4:10 gears allow leverage to increase power to the rear wheels w/ out fuel or air and exhaust system uses less energy.

[O's Fan Rich]

I Quietly, I have been told by several S/C owners that they should have keep the car stock. :beer:

Not by me!
I just gotta learn to drive it that 1/4 mile.......

[Breadfan]

I know what Bradley said sounds contradictory but really in a way it's not. The Trilogy will feel stock when you want it to but run like a banshee when you want it. At the same time the power levels in various everyday driving situation will be apparent yet transparent. In a sense things you do everyday will be done with much less effort but you'll not have to adjust your driving style much, the power is there but feels like it always was.

I concur with Bradley though the Trilogy is a very driveable solution the low end power is great when you mash the gas off idle but in terms of normally taking off from a light you will feel like it's a normal car. I'd feel comfortable letting my mother drive my Trilogy car and not worry of it getting out of hand on her even in rain -- well OK unless she wanted to hear that whine and wasn't ready for what was to come with a pedal mashing! :)

As for the other mods, exhaust is very subjective to the user. I personally don't mind louder exhaust, though at times I'm happy mine is still pretty quiet. It's in the ear of the beholder as to what you want. As for the converter you will feel a looser converter, if you plan to get something like a Trilogy I wouldn't bother touching the converter as the Eaton will work well with the stocker. If you're a drag strip monster eeking out a few more tenths then the converter will get you some assuming you have sticky tires.

[O's Fan Rich]

I
I'd feel comfortable letting my mother drive my Trilogy car and not worry of it getting out of hand on her even in rain.

Not me... Mom's got a turbo Volvo X-Country... she don't need to drive my MM!

[Breadfan]

I left my 1990 Mustang at their house for a few weeks so for all I know my mom is driving a 5spd 5.0!

[Ben]

I was wondering about supercharging my 04 Toredor Red Marauder. I was interested in learning about Trilogy Motorsports supercharging. I bought the car in Michigan. 5300 miles originally. Now I have 7000. Very few mods tinted windows and ran on synthetic oil. Previous owner took awesome care of the car. Car was clay barred and kept stored under cover in a heated garage. Wanted to mod car with supercharger. I've seen numerous videos on Youtube and it looks really good. Was wondering if Trilogy was worth all the money. Please reply as quickly as possible.

[sailsmen]

Do a search and you will learn alot.

You can also read the Trilogy Forum.

[jgc61sr2002]

I was wondering about supercharging my 04 Toredor Red Marauder. I was interested in learning about Trilogy Motorsports supercharging. I bought the car in Michigan. 5300 miles originally. Now I have 7000. Very few mods tinted windows and ran on synthetic oil. Previous owner took awesome care of the car. Car was clay barred and kept stored under cover in a heated garage. Wanted to mod car with supercharger. I've seen numerous videos on Youtube and it looks really good. Was wondering if Trilogy was worth all the money. Please reply as quickly as possible.

Welcome aboard.:D:welcome1:

[carfixer]

Trilogy is a beautiful install and well-working kit, but with it's low-end torque, it's easy to get away from you and it breaks stuff if you don't have everything upgraded! Although all of the kits will break stuff, I was afraid Trilogy would break stuff quicker due to it's low-end grunt.

Rich, I certainly agree that adding torque will shorten the life of any car's parts. However, I think if a poll was taken, we'd find that the percentage of engine/trans issues would lean toward the centrifugal side. The main reason for this is because of the RPM you have to run a centri at to get it to perform. Most, if not all that run a centrifugal have a high stall converter and gears. With a high stall speed converter, you're running your car at higher RPM's to get the car to move and add a set of lower gears and you get even more RPM. To get it to really move, you've got to get the R's past 4K. I rarely run my Trilogy past 4K on the street and have no need to run at full throttle. At the track, it'll shift right at 6K. I have stock trans, torque converter and bone stock exhaust. I also run drag radials with no problems and it has run at least 100 times at the track with a dozen drivers. It runs consistent 12.6's with a best of 12.4 without even a hint of trouble (knocking on wood).

If you want to go fast, you have to expect to break stuff no matter what run.

[Bradley G]

Welcome Ben!
Post up your location, maybe you & one of the 160 Trilogy owners will be able to hook up for a test ride/drive.
You may want to check out the other S/C offerings as well.
I was wondering about supercharging my 04 Toredor Red Marauder. I was interested in learning about Trilogy Motorsports supercharging. I bought the car in Michigan. 5300 miles originally. Now I have 7000. Very few mods tinted windows and ran on synthetic oil. Previous owner took awesome care of the car. Car was clay barred and kept stored under cover in a heated garage. Wanted to mod car with supercharger. I've seen numerous videos on Youtube and it looks really good. Was wondering if Trilogy was worth all the money. Please reply as quickly as possible.

[Aren Jay]

Given where you live I would have a good loot and the FIT SC kits.

They are almost local, more so that anyone else, for you and if they used more cold friendly kits would be my first choice.