Factory Alpine/Audiophile/Premium radio question [Archive]

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racorcey

12-20-2007, 08:20 AM

I originally posted here (posts #8 and #9):

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=562683#post56 2683

The following:
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Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Cordoba1 http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?p=557509#post55 7509)
Here's the link.. Have fun! :) http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forum...&highlight=mp3

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Reading this closed set of postings, it peaked my interest. I looked at my 2004 MM radio, the original window sticker, and the owner's manual.

Original sticker says it's equipped with a "Audiophile" sound system under Standard Equipment.

Owner's manual clearly shows two pictorials - the first one, an Audiophile radio, shows "Alpine" on the tape door; the second one, a "Premium" radio, doesn't have the "Alpine" on the tape door.

My radio has no "Alpine" on the tape door.

Reading the posts from 4.5 years ago, all the conversation was about 2003's, since the 2004's were not in production yet.

Doing some searching did provide some interesting info, but not what I was looking for.

I "assume" I have the Alpine radio, if only because the sub-woofer system is there. I assume that the Premium version did not have a sub-woofer system. I can be wrong, of course.

So what say you more radio experienced 2004 MM people out there? Does "Alpine" have to be clearly marked on the tape door for it to be an Alpine/Audiophile system? Or is there another way to tell?
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Now back to real-time:

I think it was probably posted in the wrong part of the forum, so I thought it might be better seen in the Garage section.

I also just noticed on the original sticker, in addtion to the "Audiophile AM/FM Cass/CD" listed under Standard Equipment, there is posted under the section "Price Information, Included on this Vehicle, Order Code 300A," it lists a "Premium Plus Audio Package."

I looked at the 2004 MM brochure, and it says, "Audiophile Sound System (AM/FM stereo/cassette/single CD, subwoofer and 100-watt amplifier)."

Sure makes you wonder exactly which radio system we really have, what with all the names that Ford seems to throw about.

Again, does anyone have anything more definitive?

Thanks....

magindat

12-20-2007, 08:57 AM

They're all Alpines. I've worked on probly 20 mm's stereos by now and have seen no difference in wiring or circuitry.

The changer is alpine and the radio is alpine. The amp - I dunno - but I DO know it takes the lower 5V trigger and balanced input like an alpine OEM.

I'm curious why it matters. Just because it's alpine doesn't really mean anything. Nothing int he aftermarket world (including alpine) interfaces with our system. We can't even find a CD magazine for the changer!

I've done and know a few 'hacks' for things like running an aftermarket subwoofer and there's one company that builds an ipod interface that plugs in to the CD x-er controls (you loose the x-er if you have one).

So why does it matter? Just curious.

magindat

12-20-2007, 08:59 AM

And the amp measures at a whopping 34 watts. 100W my big ol butt!

Maybe 16 x 4 spkrs + 34 sub comes close to 100!

The speakers are powered by the RADIO ITSELF. Only the sub is externally amped.

RF Overlord

12-20-2007, 10:00 AM

And the amp measures at a whopping 34 watts. 100W my big ol butt!Maybe that 100W isn't RMS...I had a Lafayette stereo receiver in the '70s that was spec'd at 75W/ch IPMP (Instantaneous Peak Music Power) which worked out to about 12W RMS... :shake: :D

Pops

12-20-2007, 10:17 AM

Most car audio is listed using music power like Bobs old receiver was. The home equipment has to use RMS power ratings by law. In the car audio world this is very misleading, It should use RMS ratings to be truthful.

racorcey

12-20-2007, 10:27 AM

They're all Alpines. I've worked on probly 20 mm's stereos by now and have seen no difference in wiring or circuitry.

I'm curious why it matters. Just because it's alpine doesn't really mean anything.

So why does it matter? Just curious.

See - I knew I'd get a good answer if it's posted in the correct forum.:)

Just so you know, I have no plans on changing the radio or adding to it. While this MM is my daily ride, I am happy enough with it. Sort of. Bass response could be a bit better when the tone control(s) are set midway. Sometimes I wonder if the bass amp really is there.

To answer your question, I am an engineer by trade. When I write specs and descriptions, they better be right (especially since I'm in the medical field). I realize in a big company (like Ford), it's likely the wording and descriptions of items like the radio are going to be mixed up. The point I'm trying to make is that I like accuracy - the curse of most engineering types. When I see confusion on items like this, I like to try to get to the bottom of it - especially from those who may be more familiar by way of experience, like yourself. Thank you for the great info and your other post as well.

Curiousity killed the cat; satisfaction brought him back ;).

- Randy

magindat

12-20-2007, 11:06 AM

Oh, I get it! So now you know the difference between ENGINEERING and MARKETING!!!!!

:banghead:

:laugh:

:beer:

magindat

12-20-2007, 11:12 AM

:soapbox: Seriously, though... and may be wrong, but I think on base: :dunno:

The Marauder was Ford's tests in moving away from JBL as an OEM vendor. At that point they had no idea WHAT to call it. Differentiate it from other 'premium' sytems or give it a new name, 'audiophile'?

Interstingly, the newest systems bear a strong resemblance to Pioneer.....:hmmm:

Pops

12-20-2007, 11:16 AM

They are Pioneers Rich. Pioneer like many other manufacters needs the OEM business to survive. I also think that it is cheaper to let the after market companys do the R&D for them.

magindat

12-20-2007, 11:23 AM

03SILVERSTREAK

12-21-2007, 08:06 AM

And the amp measures at a whopping 34 watts. 100W my big ol butt!

Maybe 16 x 4 spkrs + 34 sub comes close to 100!

The speakers are powered by the RADIO ITSELF. Only the sub is externally amped.

Well that cuts it. Now im more inclined to change the factory radio to aftermarket and looseing the steering wheel controls and all together dump the sub amp...:shake:

magindat

12-21-2007, 08:09 AM

Well that cuts it. Now im more inclined to change the factory radio to aftermarket and looseing the steering wheel controls and all together dump the sub amp...:shake:

You won't loose the SW controls... we have ways to make them work! :D

Dragcity

12-21-2007, 08:17 AM

Vee Have Vaays ?????

magindat

12-21-2007, 08:21 AM

Vee Have Vaays ?????

Da!

Just like the Russian soldier say to the prisoner who will only 'tick'...."Vee have vays to make you 'tock'!"

Vee have vays to make the SWC's 'tock' to the aftermarket HU!!!

racorcey

12-21-2007, 09:27 AM

Oh, I get it! So now you know the difference between ENGINEERING and MARKETING!!!!!

:banghead:

:laugh:

:beer:

I'm reminded of this every day at work. As I've discovered, marketing types are the coolaid drinkers.:P

- Randy

racorcey

12-21-2007, 09:38 AM

Aftermarket vendors have been doing OEM stereo since the first OEM stereo. Blaupunkt was put in a Mercedes.

And I might remind you that Motorola produced the first car radio - a brief history:
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The commercial introduction of the fitted car radio came in the 1930s from the Galvin Manufacturing Corporation. Galvin Manufacturing was owned and operated by Paul V. Galvin and his brother Joseph E. Galvin. In 1930, the Galvin Corporation introduced the first commercial car radio, the Motorola model 5T71, which sold for between $110 and $130 and could be installed in most popular automobiles.
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And it's been downhill every since for OEM applications.:bigcry:

- Randy

racorcey

12-21-2007, 09:45 AM

You guys got my curiosity up about the Bass amp/speaker, so I stuck my head up on the rear shelf package last night. It didn't take too much to figure out the regular rear speakers, but it was a small feat to "hear" the bass one. With normal speech, I could barely detect it. With music, it was maybe another (barely) 3 db higher output. I really had to increase the bass control several notches before I could really notice anything meaningful.

I agree with the rest of you....seems like they're using "peak" watts for their ratings, not RMS.

- Randy

magindat

12-21-2007, 10:02 AM

I love car audio trivia!!!!

The Moto was the first 'official' car radio, but was a retrofit. Blau and Mercedes are credited with the first radio fitted to the car upon purchase in 1932, truly representing OEM.

Further proof... The 'after'-market pre-ceded the OEM!!!! :shake:

racorcey

12-21-2007, 11:45 AM

magindat

12-21-2007, 11:48 AM

and the first to do mobile CD... and first to use stereo...

mrjones

12-21-2007, 04:44 PM

[QUOTE=magindat;562829] "100W my big ol butt!"

John Boy and Billy / Mad Max fan???

magindat

12-22-2007, 08:22 AM

Fan, no. Occasional listener.

Nice catch!

GreekGod

12-23-2007, 07:13 AM

I can think of no OEM that built it's own radios unless maybe you count Delco building for GM. But Delco was a separate company who existed only to build OEM.

Ford had a division that made radios....can't remember the name...'60's & '70's...Philco?...ahh yes:

Acquired by Ford Motor Company (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/wiki/Ford_Motor_Company) on December 11 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/wiki/December_11), 1961 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/wiki/1961), Philco made many car radios for Ford vehicles. Eventually, the name was abandoned. The company was acquired by Philips (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/wiki/Philips) in 1981 (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/wiki/1981) in order to gain the rights to use the Philips (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/wiki/Philips) trademark in the United States (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/wiki/United_States) which Philco was able to keep Philips from using legally because of the similarly sounding names.

re:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philco

Philco/Ford history:http://www.oldradio.com/archives/hardware/philco.htm
<http: en.wikipedia.org="" wiki="" philco=""><http: en.wikipedia.org="" wiki="" philco=""> <http: en.wikipedia.org="" wiki="" philco=""></http:></http:></http:>

hwy73

12-23-2007, 07:39 AM

That's right. And those Philco radios sounded better than any crap they are putting in cars now from the factory. My 1973 Country Sedan wagon with its Philco AM - FM Stereo (sorry, no 8-track) had the best sounding factory car stereo I ever owned. But the wagons always seemed to benefit more from those speakers in the cargo area I think.

rayjay

12-23-2007, 07:43 AM

The radio is adequate. The only upgrade I have done was to replace the OEM speakers with Infinitys. Huge difference, wish I had not waited three years to do it.

racorcey

12-23-2007, 07:50 AM

Great references to Philco!!

Having lived in the Philadelphia area my entire life, I was able to get tours of their various plants, especially when I was a kid, and an "aspiring engineer." Watching them make TV sets fancinated me the most. However, the Lansdale plant, at least when I visited it back in the 70's, was still making car radios. That died in the early 80's.

One of our retired engineers, now 84, put 30 years into Philco's local engineering department before he came to work for us - and that was in 1980. I got some interesting stories from him during lunches.:)

Thanks for posting the Philco info!

- Randy

Taemian

12-23-2007, 08:04 AM

You won't loose the SW controls... we have ways to make them work! :D

Awesome! Maybe I'll have to PM you for details. I really want to keep a Ford factory head, even if only for appearance sake. I was going to swap it with an mp3 player version from a late model Focus that I currently have in my CVPI (which is in storage.) I don't care about the changer if I can play mp3s. Sounds like I should change the stock speakers, from what you all say. Is there no way to boost the signal AFTER the head? It's done to the subwoofer, can't it be done to the other ones? (Audio idiot here):flamer::help:

RCSignals

12-23-2007, 03:36 PM

I knew that. I was stirring the pot!!!! :D Thanx for the confirmation!!!!

Aftermarket vendors have been doing OEM stereo since the first OEM stereo. Blaupunkt was put in a Mercedes.

I can think of no OEM that built it's own radios unless maybe you count Delco building for GM. But Delco was a separate company who existed only to build OEM.

I like how Scion is honest and actually call it a Pioneer and let it be labeled as such.

R&D? Boy are you right!! Most OEM systems are downgrades/reworks from what the stereo MFG has or will soon have in the aftermarket.

If you are going back in history with that, Philco built for Ford. Ford happened to own Philco.

edit: missed the other post. Ford's use of Philco goes back farther than 1961.
I was pretty sure Ford owned or had a big stake in Philco before that as well.