Should I Do Aftermarket Mufflers

[Marylandrauder]

I deleted my rear cats last week, also put in a AFE Pro Dry Air Filter, the car is a little bit louder and seems quicker, I know that a muffler change by itself is not worth much, but since I deleted the rear cats would a muffler change be worthwhile, I went through all the old threads and it seems that I could maybe pick up 5 more h.p., there was no check engine light, I have read that the stock mufflers are restrictive and only flow 110 cfm per muffler, my thinking is that since the car feels a little bit more powerful that a muffler change would be worthwhile, I have never driven this car in the rain and the mufflers have rust spots on them, wonder why, I am not ready to do a tune or put on headers, I was at the Safford Lincoln Mercury Show last June and I went for a ride in a silver Marauder where the guy had a supercharger running through the stock exhaust and it was very fast, I know a muffler change will give me more sound but will I feel a difference in power, anyone who has done this please give me your expert opinion, also if the pipes before the muffler are 2 inches and after the mufflers they are 2.25 how do you mate the pipes up, I think I also read that the stock mufflers weigh 30 pounds each if I am not mistaken, if I replace the mufflers what do I do about the piece of steel that is on one of the mufflers as a balancer, and if I put in a straight pipe instead of a muffler would it be to loud.

[RF Overlord]

On an N/A car with no tune, replacing the mufflers alone will result in almost zero power increase, although you may get a nice change in sound. Personally, I would not do the FlowMaster 40s again, although the MagnaFlows that are on Phoebe do sound nice.

[ckadiddle]

No mufflers at all sounds like this:
http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/mufflerectomy/
and this:
http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/?action=view&current=100_1161.flv
Awesome sound, but may get on your nerves if you drive your MM everywhere every day. Droney on the highway. You won't be able to sneak home late at night. ;)

Magnaflow 14 inch mufflers at wide open throttle sound like this:
http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/?action=view&current=4th.flv


These were with stock exhaust otherwise and a PHP CAI.

I find that the combo of tune, mufflers and CAI makes for a nice perky Marauder.

[ctrlraven]

On an N/A car with no tune, replacing the mufflers alone will result in almost zero power increase, although you may get a nice change in sound. Personally, I would not do the FlowMaster 40s again, although the MagnaFlows that are on Phoebe do sound nice.

Wutz wrong wit da Flows 40s yo? lol I have the Super 40s on mine, might step up to Super 44s or 18" Magnaflows once I do my whole exhaust system.


I'm not going to say yes you need to get Flowmasters, they are a unique muffler sound so is every other muffler out on the market. You may also want to look into Spin Tech mufflers.

Are you looking for more sound inside or outside the vehicle is a good question?

[Cobra25]

Some of the members seam too like Ford Duel Mode mufflers & Flowmaster Delta 50 series mufflers. Magnaflows seam to be the favorite around here.

[Zack]

After having 3 different brands on all my cars, I prefer the Stock mufflers over all of them.

[KillJoy]

After having 3 different brands on all my cars, I prefer the Stock mufflers over all of them.


Long Tubes, Stock Front Cat, Stock Mufflers.

:up:

KillJoy

[Bluerauder]

Magnaflows seam to be the favorite around here.
Ivar, suggest that you touch base with "Joe Walsh" (I believe you met him at the Safford L-M car show in June 2007 - he had his 427 Cobra that day) or "merc". Their Magnaflows definitely sound great. However, I have heard from both of these guys that the drone on longer trips can be a little irritating after a couple hours on the highway. If this is a consideration, then getting the info first hand might be worthwhile.

[ctrlraven]

Ivar, suggest that you touch base with "Joe Walsh" (I believe you met him at the Safford L-M car show in June 2007 - he had his 427 Cobra that day) or "merc". Their Magnaflows definitely sound great. However, I have heard from both of these guys that the drone on longer trips can be a little irritating after a couple hours on the highway. If this is a consideration, then getting the info first hand might be worthwhile.

Same thing with the Flowmasters. When Joe and I were at the local drag strip, from know what my car sounded like and hearing Joe's, mine actually sounded louder at a certain rpm range.

If you want loud and not have to worry about mufflers, do what I did at one time, cut the rear exhaust section out and just put side exit exhaust on off the H-pipe lol. They weren't on for more than 3 weeks before I went back to my exhaust guy and had him put everything back on, the daily drone headache was just too much but man was it loud lol.

[Raudermaster]

I'm convinced muffler's don't do crap other than change the way the car sounds. I mean yea they create back pressure which helps and is good, but I mean what else can they possibly provide for HP numbers? Just because they're smaller and less restrictive than the stock ones? Someone explain it to me!

[Vortech347]

MM&FF did a dyno test with like 8 different mufflers on a 350rwhp fox. All of the brands where within like 1-2hp of each other. Hell 1-2hp can vary from how the air is day to day, temp, humidity, ect...

Its pretty much a sound thing untill you get into really high numbers 600+

I actually like the stockers on my car. They have a pretty decent sound. I'm sure they'll sound better once I get the rear cats deleted.

[ckadiddle]

MM&FF did a dyno test with like 8 different mufflers on a 350rwhp fox. All of the brands where within like 1-2hp of each other. Hell 1-2hp can vary from how the air is day to day, temp, humidity, ect...

Its pretty much a sound thing untill you get into really high numbers 600+

I actually like the stockers on my car. They have a pretty decent sound. I'm sure they'll sound better once I get the rear cats deleted.
The stock exhaust and stock muffler sound is part of what sold the first MM to me.;)

[ctrlraven]

Yes delete your rear cats now!

I've had a boatload of people ask me about the sound/power difference since mine have been off for a long time. So glad I got rid of them.

Marylandrauder, here is an interior sound clip of my exhaust setup before the cats came off with windows down. Just to give you an idea of the Flowmaster interior sound levels with mostly stock exhaust piping.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kd4cElbFXqM

[Marylandrauder]

I know you had the flowmasters put on, did you do this the same time you cut the rear converters, if our mufflers are so good then why doesn't kooks or stainlessworks use them, my thinking was that since I seemed to pick up power with the rear converters off that I would pick up a little power with the muffler change, I would agree that if I did not take the rear cats off then a muffler change would not do anything, I am thinking about going with Dynomax Ultra Flow SS which is a straight through stainless steel muffler, I have them on my El Camino which is louder than my Marauder but that car also has shorty headers and no catalytic converter, I saw the stock mufflers cut in half and they look like turbo mufflers where the exhaust kind of snakes around, I will talk tomorrow to the guy who helped me remove my rear cats and get his ideas, removing the rear converters is a win win situation, I will be tracking my gas mileage on the next tank of gas to see how things are going since I replaced the rear converters when I had more than half a tank.

[ledzilla]

Now, when you all say "delete the rear cats", do you mean replacing both cats with a one cat per side setup (instead of a pipe with two cats, it's built with only one cat), or actually cutting the pipe to remove the rear cat, then replacing the removed section with another piece of pipe? And how does this effect emissions testing?

[Marylandrauder]

There are 4 catalytic converters on our cars, the first set is right after the manifolds so the car is emission compliant right away, the second set is downstream after the O2 sensors, basically there I guess to clean up anything that was missed, basically you cut the 2 converters out and put in a piece of straight pipe, the guy that helped me did such a good job that it looks 100% stock, you will not throw any codes or have a check engine light come on, I do not know about other states but in my state all they do is plug into the computer underneath the dash to see if there are any codes, since doing this there are no check engine lights and the exhaust does not smell any different, I think that the first set of converters do most of the work, I saved my old converters and when I looked inside them I could barely see out the other side, because these were so restrictive I can see how they would cut down on sound and performance, has anyonr taken off the old mufflers to see how much they weigh.

[ledzilla]

I know how they are set up. It's the same thing my old Lincoln had. But you did answer my question with 100% satisfaction. This is good to know. :D

[Marylandrauder]

Sorry about that, I just figured if I was going to explain things I better let people know how the converters are set up, again there is no downside to doing this, the exhaust note is maybe a tad louder but the performance is a little better, hit the gas and go.

[ledzilla]

...hit the gas and go...

My absolute favorite thing in the world to do, hands down. :D

And don't worry about it, no insult taken. When it gets down to technical details you never know exactly how much someone knows.

[Paul T. Casey]

Now, when you all say "delete the rear cats", do you mean replacing both cats with a one cat per side setup (instead of a pipe with two cats, it's built with only one cat), or actually cutting the pipe to remove the rear cat, then replacing the removed section with another piece of pipe? And how does this effect emissions testing?

You should be ok on either a plug in (checking for CEL codes) or a sniffer. However, as more states tend to adopt California emissions laws, you will definately fail a visual inspection. Some states allow aftermarket exhaust once the car reaches 100K miles.

[ledzilla]

100K miles, eh? Well, if Illinois is one of them, I should have that down pretty well around the time of my next emissions test. At 73K now and had my first test this past summer. I've been doing extra driving lately so it might not be hard to reach that mark... Not that I really want to, though.

[mpearce]

Long Tubes, Stock Front Cat, Stock Mufflers.

:up:

KillJoy

Steve,

Is this your current set up?



FWIW, in reference to the first poster (thread starter)....

It sounds like you want more power. Save your money on the mufflers, and get a tune. I'll never forget how excited I was when I got my first tune. To me, at that time, the car felt 2000lbs lighter, and way much faster.

I would suggest a tune over mufflers any day.

-Mat

[ckadiddle]

Steve,

Is this your current set up?



FWIW, in reference to the first poster (thread starter)....

It sounds like you want more power. Save your money on the mufflers, and get a tune. I'll never forget how excited I was when I got my first tune. To me, at that time, the car felt 2000lbs lighter, and way much faster.

I would suggest a tune over mufflers any day.

-Mat

I agree. If you never have funds to do any other mods, spend your bucks on a tune.

[jonroe]

I replaced my stock mufflers with Borlas just because I like the sound. Also, the Borlas have to weigh considerably less than the stockers - they are heavy! The sound deepened a little but didn't get much louder because of the 4 cats. I suspect to gain a little better Borla tone I need to get rid of the back cats.

[KillJoy]

Is this your current set up?


Almost........... Just need to put the Cats in place.

KillJoy

[chader]

If I were to cut out my back cats,would that require me to have my tune altered..I had a Trilogy installed and tuned by Lidio?

[ctrlraven]

If I were to cut out my back cats,would that require me to have my tune altered..I had a Trilogy installed and tuned by Lidio?

Do you have a stock exhaust system? I don't think you would have to get a dyno tune just for taking the stock rear cats off.

[chader]

Do you have a stock exhaust system? I don't think you would have to get a dyno tune just for taking the stock rear cats off.
All stock as of now,I will be putting delete tips on,and am think about cutting out the rear cats?

[Raudermaster]

I don't think you would need a retune for that.

[ctrlraven]

Yeah I don't think so either, go for it!

[94_302]

MM&FF did a dyno test with like 8 different mufflers on a 350rwhp fox. All of the brands where within like 1-2hp of each other. Hell 1-2hp can vary from how the air is day to day, temp, humidity, ect...

Its pretty much a sound thing untill you get into really high numbers 600+

I actually like the stockers on my car. They have a pretty decent sound. I'm sure they'll sound better once I get the rear cats deleted.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showpost.php?p=6462739&postcount=5

[QWK SVT]

http://forums.stangnet.com/showpost.php?p=6462739&postcount=5

I dunno - a 5 HP difference (Flowtech Warlock vs. Flowmaster) could be worthwhile. Since the TQ #s were much closer, I'd venture a guess that the 5HP is really only at the peak, and that the area under the curve is much closer for all...

Thing is, there's no comparison of stock vs. not. That's the situation we're talking about. Is the stocker as capable as all the aftermarket mufflers, or is it a compromised product, as a result of Ford's requirement for sound deadening?

I'm in on the group buy for the 4" tips. As they're weld on tips, I think it may be a good time to swap out mufflers, while I'm at it... Just can't decide if it's worth it, or not... :depress:

[RedMerc04]

http://forums.stangnet.com/showpost.php?p=6462739&postcount=5
Pretty interesting stats there.

[jfclancy]

:beer::beer:Hey Marylandrauder

Which model afe filter any chance of getting a part number?
or is it a custom setup?

Thanks in advance

Joe Clancy:beer::beer:

[Marylandrauder]

I have the box with the part number out in the shed, it snowed here tonite so I will go out tomoorow morning and get the part number and post it.

[Marylandrauder]

Here is the part number for the aFe Dry Flow Air Filter, 31-10058, there phone number is (909) 279-4050, there website is www.aFefilters.com (http://www.aFefilters.com), they say that it flows 830 CFM, they do not have a cold air kit yet like the K&N, you basically clean this filter by vaccuming it or if it is really dirty you wash it with soap and water, I think I paid $43.00 with shipping, I got it from a website called autoanything. They claim and from what I read on BITOG that this filters better than K&N and there is no oil to use on the filter.

[jfclancy]

Thank You very mucho!

I tried a K& N when I first bought my marauder, panel type and it did not fit.
So was reluctant to try another fits Crown Vic not made for marauder filter.
But as You started the thread by saying you were running one I guess this one fits.

Thanks again

Joe Clancy:beer::beer::beer:

[Da Dark Jedi]

I replaced my stock mufflers with Borlas just because I like the sound. Also, the Borlas have to weigh considerably less than the stockers - they are heavy! The sound deepened a little but didn't get much louder because of the 4 cats. I suspect to gain a little better Borla tone I need to get rid of the back cats.


Do you have a part number, are they a direct fit?

[Marylandrauder]

Yes, this was a direct fit, the filter looks like a K&N but it is dry, I think you will notice a little more sound from your Borla's when you remove the rear cats, what did you do with your old mufflers and what type of Borla's did you put on, whatever mufflers I put on I have to make sure the inlets and outlets of the mufflers line up I think the stock mufflers are center offset, how much do you think the old mufflers weigh and did you notice any performance gain from the Borla's, someone on here mentioned a problem for emissions, most places that do emissions are staffed by people that do not know the laws or if a certain car has 2 cats or 4 cats, I remember when I had a single exhaust on my El Camino and the guy at the emission station said why don't you put on a dual exhaust, where I live according to the emission laws if your car came with a single exhaust you cannot by law put on a dual exhaust, well I did, when I went back to get the emissions done the next time he commented on how much better my car sounded with a dual exhaust.

[ctrlraven]

Marylandruader, I have a K&N panel filter that I originally used for about 15k miles when I first got my MM then I bought a JLT.

Everyone thinks the "wet filters" are bad cause they will mess up the MAFS. Sure maybe if people over oil the filters and if anything goes wrong with the MAFS that is on the vehicle owner, not hard to follow cleaning directions.

Yes in MD it is illegal to modify a vehicle exhaust system that will increase it's exhaust decible tone level. So yeah added a dual exhaust system could do that....do cops really car about domestic vehicles? Not as much as they like to go after loud annoy coffee can tuner/ricer cars. I had a 1995 Cougar that came with a 3.8 V6 which blew a head gasket twice so I did the 4.6L V8 swap which of course made the car louder and I put on a true dual exhaust system, few cops in the area pulled me over just to check out what I had done and the guys at the emissions station loved it.

[Marylandrauder]

I always make sure that when I see a cop to not hit the gas real hard or floor it, also when I did the dual exhaust on the El Camino I put an x-pipe on which knocked the sound down, do you still have your original mufflers and does anyone have there's laying around to tell me how much they weigh.

[Da Dark Jedi]

what type of Borla's did you put on, whatever mufflers I put on I have to make sure the inlets and outlets of the mufflers line up .



Thanks, now how about the part number or type for the Borla's. Like the above I'm looking for a direct fit replacement in the stock muffler location.

[locomotion]

All stock as of now,I will be putting delete tips on,and am think about cutting out the rear cats?


what does it mean ''delete tips''?
what are tips?

[QWK SVT]

what does it mean ''delete tips''?
what are tips?

The tips are the shiney two pipes, where the exhaust exits the car (after the mufflers).

Delete tips remove the resonator in the stock exhaust tips, increasing sound, slightly. Wes (Innovative Interceptors) has a group buy on 4" delete tips, right now. ;)

[chader]

what does it mean ''delete tips''?
what are tips?

Delete tips are after market exhaust tips with no resinators/baffels in them..look the same.They will change the the noise a little.

[UncleLar]

ctrlraven,what series mufflers are you running?
I had a 96 Cougar XR7 Bostonian with 4.6 for a while,I got it off a dealers lot. I traced the original owner who turned out to be an 81 year old guy who was afraid of it. Said he stepped on it hard once when it was new and near soiled himself. When I got it on a sweet deal it was pigged up but after I blew it out it ran pretty quick for a stock MN-12. I joined TCCOA and went to the 2002 Nationals in Evansville and had the only Bostonian there.The car was Silver with a black canvas looking Bostonian half top and stainless Targa band,the luggage carrier on the trunk with the geometric wheels and really thin stripe whitewalls.It looked like a fifty something year old secretary's car and I surprised more than a few young dudes when they pulled up on my right side at a light. I updated the trans accumulators and such according to Jerry's suggestions along with a big B&M cooler and filled it with MerconV but didn't do the valve body mod which I regret. My best friend bought it a few years ago and took it down to Kansas where it's still running like a top and not using any oil with almost 200K miles on it and he loves it.

[ctrlraven]

ctrlraven,what series mufflers are you running?
I had a 96 Cougar XR7 Bostonian with 4.6 for a while,I got it off a dealers lot. I traced the original owner who turned out to be an 81 year old guy who was afraid of it. Said he stepped on it hard once when it was new and near soiled himself. When I got it on a sweet deal it was pigged up but after I blew it out it ran pretty quick for a stock MN-12. I joined TCCOA and went to the 2002 Nationals in Evansville and had the only Bostonian there.The car was Silver with a black canvas looking Bostonian half top and stainless Targa band,the luggage carrier on the trunk with the geometric wheels and really thin stripe whitewalls.It looked like a fifty something year old secretary's car and I surprised more than a few young dudes when they pulled up on my right side at a light. I updated the trans accumulators and such according to Jerry's suggestions along with a big B&M cooler and filled it with MerconV but didn't do the valve body mod which I regret. My best friend bought it a few years ago and took it down to Kansas where it's still running like a top and not using any oil with almost 200K miles on it and he loves it.

I run Flowmaster Super 40 Series mufflers, not the Delta 40's. The mufflers on the MM came off my 95 Cougar when I got rid of it, glad I held onto them. I had the 1995 Brougham Edition.

[UncleLar]

I went over to Iggy's mufflers today to see what they had that I'd like and ended up having them install Magna Flow high polished stainless tips in place of the stock tips. 3 1/2" dia,22" long and they made new hangers and got them installed perfectly,they're 15 degree angle slash cut with rolled ends and look just like the originals. $129.52 installed for everything.It sounds pretty nice now,I think I'll keep the mufflers original and maybe in the future I'll get rid of the rear cats,maybe. We have smog testing here every 2 years and they check under the car.
That's my first mod to the car.