New Front Struts

[ledzilla]

I'm planning on buying new front struts today or tomorrow, and I was looking for some opinions on what I was planning on buying. I was looking at these three:

KYB Front Mono-tube strut part #551602
Monroe Severe Service part #553001
Motorcraft Front Strut part #AHS965

I found all three online for very similar prices. Which would be my best bet? Either way I'm going to notice a huge improvement. I have almost 73K miles and I think I still have factory struts. BTW, I did look for the Monroe Sensa-Trac on Reinhart's site but I didn't see it.

[magindat]

They aren't on his site. Just call him.

I have the Monroe severe service on cut coils. I installed them when I cut the coils. I'm happy with them. They ride as well as Hotrauder's naake's but sometimes it would be nice to adjust them.

Overall, for the money and effort, I'm pleased with them.

[ledzilla]

I was just looking for them on his site to see what he is charging for them. I happened to find them elsewhere for $81.00/ea.

I am interested to see if anyone has used the KYB struts. I'm curious as to how good they are. If I don't hear anything, though, I'll just go with the Monroes.

[lifespeed]

I would get the factory struts. They are made by Tokico, a Japanese performance strut company with a good reputation. Based on my driving experience with this car they are very well made and matched to the car.

I have used Monroe struts before, although not on this car. They are generally considered mid-level consumer stuff, not performance struts as this car should have. Others who have used them commented that they are softer than the factory struts, not the kind of change I would personally want in my suspension.

I recognize the desire to switch to something 'better' than factory. This is probably due to a long history of Ford and other mfg's putting junk struts and shocks on cars. The Marauder is an exception to this rule.

[magindat]

I would get the factory struts. They are made by Tokico, a Japanese performance strut company with a good reputation. Based on my driving experience with this car they are very well made and matched to the car.

I have used Monroe struts before, although not on this car. They are generally considered mid-level consumer stuff, not performance struts as this car should have. Others who have used them commented that they are softer than the factory struts, not the kind of change I would personally want in my suspension.

Agreed, a bit easier compression and slower rebound than would be perfect. However, the severe service units take it a step above the mid-grade consumer to the commercial/industrial type level which I feel (both personally and in the ride) is in between a consumer level product and an all-out performance product. Lastly, the 'softer' seems to work well with the cut springs.

Again, it's a value question. I could have gone Naake for 500 used or 1000 new, but for my 200 and my own labor, I like the Monroe quite a lot. Not to mention, they are lifetime warranted, so if I ever feel they need replacing, it's free to me, justs costs an afternoon of my time.

[lifespeed]

I am interested to see if anyone has used the KYB struts. I'm curious as to how good they are.

I used KYB shocks on an '87 box body Grand Marquis. They were absolutely terrible and totally underdamped. They felt like they were blown out when brand new. I returned them the next day. My opinion of KYB is they are cheap junk masquerading as 'performance'.

IMHO, there are not that many good shock mfg's out there. I would put Bilstein, Edelbrock, and Tokico on my short list. I have not used the expensive Naake, but hear they are good also. The other brands you mention are just parts-store cheapies designed to make money for Sears auto repair.

[ledzilla]

Either way, I don't want to spend more than $250.00 for a pair. I don't have much more than that to spend on them. I would just like a good, solid performing shock that fits in my budget. I have too much bounce and it's getting me worried, so I'm glad I finally have some money to get this resolved. I'd do it my self (did it on my old Lincoln), but I don't think the half-assed methods I used on it would work well on the MM, considering I don't have a spring compressor.

So I'm looking at the Monroe severe duty for about $80 ea, the KYB for about $95 ea, and the Motorcraft for about $120 ea.

[magindat]

Either way, I don't want to spend more than $250.00 for a pair. I don't have much more than that to spend on them. I would just like a good, solid performing shock that fits in my budget. I have too much bounce and it's getting me worried, so I'm glad I finally have some money to get this resolved. I'd do it my self (did it on my old Lincoln), but I don't think the half-assed methods I used on it would work well on the MM, considering I don't have a spring compressor.

So I'm looking at the Monroe severe duty for about $80 ea, the KYB for about $95 ea, and the Motorcraft for about $120 ea.

If you are wanting to lower it, perhaps your shop would allow you to cut the spring while it's off the car.

If your budget is 250, you might have just enough left for an alignment!

[ledzilla]

No, I don't want to lower it. If I did, I wouldn't be able to get it on the driveway. If I had a cut-away curb, I'd consider it.

As for my budget, $250 is what I have to spend on the struts themselves. I should have enough for labor (installing new tires - new BFG's from Tirerack.com, installing the struts). I should have enough for an alignment, as well. The best I can find is $60 for that. I definitely need one ayway, since that's the reason I needed new front tires.

[ledzilla]

You know, now that I think about it, I'm just going to go OEM and get the Motorcraft struts. I can't afford to go fancy, but they should do just fine.

[lifespeed]

You know, now that I think about it, I'm just going to go OEM and get the Motorcraft struts. I can't afford to go fancy, but they should do just fine.

It is my opinion that the Motorcraft (Tokico) ARE the 'fanciest' of the reasonably-priced options you listed.

[BLACKMARAUDER04]

I use kyb's all around and am very happy with them. Look for my thread under shocks.

[ledzilla]

Well, it would seem that all of these options have been explored, and there are both peeps happy and not-so-happy about each of them. Oy! This is like trying to find reliable computer hardware. Thanks for all your input, guys. Oddly enough it's helped and confused me at the same time.

[magindat]

Well, it would seem that all of these options have been explored, and there are both peeps happy and not-so-happy about each of them. Oy! This is like trying to find reliable computer hardware. Thanks for all your input, guys. Oddly enough it's helped and confused me at the same time.

Problem is... most of this info is subjective...

[ledzilla]

Problem is... most of this info is subjective...

I'd have to agree.

Well, after doing a little more research and asking a fellow co-worker who's been restoring to classic Mustangs, I decided to try out the KYB's. I spent about $80 less than if I purchased OEM, and about $300-$400 less than if I bought straight from the manufacturer (went to autopartswarehouse.com). So after I get them and have them installed, I suppose I'll get to see if lifespeed can say "I told you so!"

After I replace my air ride compressor, I'll take care of the rears. I can't seem to find the link to that place in Florida where the guy is selling OEM parts for less then dealer prices. Could someone point me back in the direction of that thread?

[GreekGod]

...IMHO, there are not that many good shock mfg's out there. I would put Bilstein, Edelbrock, and Tokico on my short list...
Koni makes good shocks, too

[ledzilla]

Well, I now have my new BFG's and my new struts. Installation is set for Thursday. (Because it's pay day! :D)

[Siege]

the 'softer' seems to work well with the cut springs.
I'm surprised since the opposite should be true. When you cut a coil spring the rate is increased slightly which would require a strut/shock with stronger damping. The best choice out of the pathetically small selection we have for higher rate springs would be the factory strut.

[cougar9150]

I replaced both my rear air bags, and a week later replaced all 4 shocks w/the KYBs along with the KYB front shock mounts.
I'm not very happy with them:(. They feel softer than stock when cornering l as though I have more body roll going through the corners. I'm just biding my time to get a sway bar setup to see if this will help with the exaggerated body roll I'm feeling. If that does not help I will either step up to the Naake setup or see if I can make my own coilover setup using some Bilstiens.
It seems as though KYB, Monroe, and Ford are the only ones who make OEM style replacement shocks for our cars:mad2:. The KYB are just the Gas -Adjust line and in my opinion not one of their better performance style shocks. The Gas-Adjust line is a meant to be minor upgrade line of shocks.
If I had known I would have saved longer and just gone to Naake.

[RF Overlord]

I can't seem to find the link to that place in Florida where the guy is selling OEM parts for less then dealer prices. Could someone point me back in the direction of that thread?The guy you're referring to isn't a supporting vendor...try contacting Ray Jermyn AKA "TheDealer" here...he is very good to us.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41347

[magindat]

I'm surprised since the opposite should be true. When you cut a coil spring the rate is increased slightly which would require a strut/shock with stronger damping. The best choice out of the pathetically small selection we have for higher rate springs would be the factory strut.

I agree from a performance aspect. And with higher damping you typically have a stiffer all around ride with a tougher compression and a slower rebound. I think the Monroes have a bit easier compression than stock and a bit faster rebound. This compensates the higher rate in terms of ride quality, not performance. With the weight factored in I ended up with a decent ride with some of that 'cadillac float' mixed with feeling all the aspects of the road. I have bit slower turn in and weight transfer than say a Naake car, but I also paid 1/4 of the money. My opinion of the Monroes is based on maintaining some semblance of luxury car ride quality while benefiting from the lowered CG, reduced sway, increased rate and less understeer.

[ledzilla]

If I had known I would have saved longer and just gone to Naake.

If I had that option, I would definitely go for it. The longer I wait and try and save up for stuff, the higher chance I have of "misappropriating" the funds. The money I put aside has a tendency to be used for other things that originally intended. It's usually because something broke and needs immediate repair. If these KYB's suck, I suppose I'll have to try and pool some money together for something better. I'll just put my money in a baggie and hide it under my mattress. ;) Or I could just go and buy a table.:D

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I used KYB shocks on an '87 box body Grand Marquis. They were absolutely terrible and totally underdamped. They felt like they were blown out when brand new. I returned them the next day. My opinion of KYB is they are cheap junk masquerading as 'performance'.

KYB makes several different lines of shocks/struts. If the struts you are considering are the GR2 monotubes, they are a very good quality strut and I would recommend them. I replaced OEM, and later Monroe Sensatracs, on a float-master Buick LeSabre with KYB GR2 monotube struts, and the increase in damping was amazing. The car rode a lot firmer and it totally eliminated the GM "dyna-ride" float, but the ride comfort was maintained. Very happy with those struts.

[lifespeed]

KYB makes several different lines of shocks/struts. If the struts you are considering are the GR2 monotubes, they are a very good quality strut and I would recommend them. I replaced OEM, and later Monroe Sensatracs, on a float-master Buick LeSabre with KYB GR2 monotube struts, and the increase in damping was amazing. The car rode a lot firmer and it totally eliminated the GM "dyna-ride" float, but the ride comfort was maintained. Very happy with those struts.

I doubt the KYBs I had were monotubes. Probably worth asking if what your are buying is monotube, regardless of the brand.

Aren't all really good shocks/struts monotubes, including our factory Tokicos?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Aren't all really good shocks/struts monotubes, including our factory Tokicos?
Probably. KYB makes both dual tube and mono tube shocks and struts, it depends on the model. It actually looks like the GR2 struts are twin tubes. They were still a HUGE improvement over brand new Monroe sensatracs. I would not hesitate to use them again

[ctrlraven]

I'll be replacing my front struts pretty soon and will be going with the Monroe Serve Service ones to match up with the Monroe Sensa-Tracs I have in the rear.

[John F. Russo]

Clarifaction:
Are they "struts" or "shocks"? Or can one call them either way?

[ctrlraven]

Strut is mounted with-in a coil spring, Shock is a stand-alone mounted unit.

[magindat]

I'll be replacing my front struts pretty soon and will be going with the Monroe Serve Service ones to match up with the Monroe Sensa-Tracs I have in the rear.

You'll be satisfied...

[John F. Russo]

Strut is mounted with-in a coil spring, Shock is a stand-alone mounted unit.

Without looking under my car in this cold weather, which do we have?

(I presume struts.)

[magindat]

Without looking under my car in this cold weather, which do we have?

(I presume struts.)

Actually, there's 3 true designations...

1) Shock
2) McPherson Strut (implies a bearing on top which swivels on steering)
3) Strut (which has a spring perch on one end and encloses the spring at the other aka 'coilover')

We have #3.

Most consumer based parts/service places won't recognize 'coilover' since that's a performance/hotrod term.

The confusion lies in the difference between 'strut' and 'McPherson Strut'.

[ledzilla]

Well, I have the new struts and and tires on. I noticed a huge improvement already. New tires definitely make a difference (haven't been sliding in the Chicago snow so much). And my struts were so worn out thtat these are fantastic in comparison. But now I have ot go buy new rears. I just put new rears on in April and now they're almost bald. I haven't even put 10k miles on them yet. Maybe I did a few too many brake-torques. If anyone knows what I can do for good rear replacements let me know. I'm hoping to find something in the price range I paid for my front BFGs (around $100/tire).

[jdenning002]

I have a set of OEM rears with about 1500 miles on them, I might be changinf them out to a wider set. I will let you know if you are interested...

What struts did you finally go with and how much, I have 86k on my MM and ned a set soon...

[ledzilla]

I put KYB gas-adjust struts on. Performance-wise, I'm not sure how good they are, since I haven't had a chance to beat on them yet. It's been to slick on the roads around here to test them out. But they are an improvement when compared to worn out factory struts with 73k on them.

If you are replacing the rears, I might be interested in the OEMs. Just need to see how much the tax man is giving back to me. And this time I'm not going to beat on the tires so much. I don't want to have to replace the rears again next spring.

[John F. Russo]

Actually, there's 3 true designations...

1) Shock
2) McPherson Strut (implies a bearing on top which swivels on steering)
3) Strut (which has a spring perch on one end and encloses the spring at the other aka 'coilover')

We have #3.

Most consumer based parts/service places won't recognize 'coilover' since that's a performance/hotrod term.

The confusion lies in the difference between 'strut' and 'McPherson Strut'.


Thank you for the education.

[ledzilla]

After driving on these KYB struts for a couple months, I find that I am not quite happy with the performance they provide. They help give a decently comfortable ride, but they don't seem to do well with quick cornering. They don't suck, but I feel that they should do better. I also get a bit of dive when braking, as well. I'm getting almost as much with the worn out factory struts. So I decided to loko around for replacements, and all I can find are the KYB struts, Monroe, and Gabriel (?). I can't even find the Motorcraft online anymore, even at places where I've seen them previously. I'm a little weary of the Gabriel struts, though. Something doesn't seem right when they are supposedly $116/pair, marked down to $55/pair front, $60/pair rear. I always see front more expensive than rear, so this seems a bit strange to me. Anyone want to put in their two cents?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Gabriel is a cheaper-than-stock "OE-style" replacement. Bargain auto parts stores like Autozone carry Gabriel as their regular line of struts. I have a set of new Gabriel's on one of my cars and they are a soft ride. On a car that comes w/ premium struts like an MM, I think the Gabriels, Monroes, etc, are always going to be a step down.

[wx4caster]

Actually, there's 3 true designations...

1) Shock
2) McPherson Strut (implies a bearing on top which swivels on steering)
3) Strut (which has a spring perch on one end and encloses the spring at the other aka 'coilover')

We have #3.

Most consumer based parts/service places won't recognize 'coilover' since that's a performance/hotrod term.

The confusion lies in the difference between 'strut' and 'McPherson Strut'.

In light of the information above ^^^, I have a delima.

My left front strut/shock is bad. Carmax extended is still in effect but shocks are not covered. The warranty covers struts and the documentation lays this out very plainly.
When I initially took the car to the dealer, Carmax denied the claim and supported this by stating our cars have shocks, not struts.
As I am typing this, my car is in the shop for replacement of OEMs with KNYs and alignment. The guy doing the install says by definition it is a stut, not a shock.
So, do you think I should dispute the denial with Carmax and try to get re-imbursed? Others may not feel the same way, but I have always had good experiences with Carmax paying claims but this one seems to be a gray area......opinions please. TKS!

[fastblackmerc]

In light of the information above ^^^, I have a delima.

My left front strut/shock is bad. Carmax extended is still in effect but shocks are not covered. The warranty covers struts and the documentation lays this out very plainly.
When I initially took the car to the dealer, Carmax denied the claim and supported this by stating our cars have shocks, not struts.
As I am typing this, my car is in the shop for replacement of OEMs with KNYs and alignment. The guy doing the install says by definition it is a stut, not a shock.
So, do you think I should dispute the denial with Carmax and try to get re-imbursed? Others may not feel the same way, but I have always had good experiences with Carmax paying claims but this one seems to be a gray area......opinions please. TKS!

Probably not what you want to hear but......

The Ford Service manual refers to them as the "shock & spring assembly".


Most of theses are considered struts:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cars+struts&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=691&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=38GiTpK0O5S4tweGzcGkBQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CEsQ_AUoAQ

[EMAS]

In light of the information above ^^^, I have a delima.

My left front strut/shock is bad. Carmax extended is still in effect but shocks are not covered. The warranty covers struts and the documentation lays this out very plainly.
When I initially took the car to the dealer, Carmax denied the claim and supported this by stating our cars have shocks, not struts.
As I am typing this, my car is in the shop for replacement of OEMs with KNYs and alignment. The guy doing the install says by definition it is a stut, not a shock.
So, do you think I should dispute the denial with Carmax and try to get re-imbursed? Others may not feel the same way, but I have always had good experiences with Carmax paying claims but this one seems to be a gray area......opinions please. TKS!

Our cars have coil over shocks on the front.

Shock = dampens suspension movements.

So no the shocks on our cars do not meet the definition of a strut despite what that particular installer is saying.

Strut = dampens suspension movement and is a major structural part of the suspension, being one of the mounting "links". May (McPherson) or may not (Chapman) have the spring concentrically mounted and thus may or may not carry the weight of the vehicle.

Coil over shock = dampens suspension movements, has a concentric spring that carries the weight of the car, but does not form a structural locating component of the suspension.

[RF Overlord]

Like I said in the other thread, thanks for clarifying this EMAS. I never realised there were multiple flavours of strut suspension versus plain old spring & shock.

[justbob]

I never could figure out why everyone here called them struts??? Just wasn't gonna argue.

This was posted live, in real time.

[mrjones]

Back from the dead after three years, just in time for Halloween!

FWIW, I recently put the Monroe's on my 04 SB with 150K on it and I'm very pleased with how they ride and handle. I also got them from OReilly's with out discount for $110 for the pair.

I loved the factory Tokicos but with 6 of them on my black 03 in less than 50K miles due to leaking, I think I'll pass.