Supercharged PCV reroute MOD

[Loco1234]

ok...:coffee:
(PCV) Positive Crankcase Ventilation we all heard of it... and know the basic's but what about this MOD that has been floating around for sometime!

I've seen a lot of posts discussing how to Mod the PCV system to connect both of the heads to the intake/supercharger power pipe. Then change the model of the PCV valve you are using... I've even heard to use one from a turbo coupe. its been said that an oil seperator from Steeda is almost a must. but you can construct your own for far less... and it will collect oil from getting into your system. I've even heard that doing this is not recommend ed 100% of the year in colder climates. Even on corral and mod motor forums.

What I haven't seen is what is the advantages of doing all this....
Is this a drag race track requirement....? is this a magical way to unlock power.:burnout: Extended life.:beer: Correct a factory misque...?:stupid:

I've heard something about helps the rings...does anyone have a better explaination...:grad:

is the point of this mod to make the crankcase Posistive... cuz t:lol:hat seems bad for rear seals, and many parts and gaskets...
or is it to make the crankcase negative... is so to what end... why not use an electrical vaccum pumps like summit or jegs uses...? :thinker:

PRO'S / CON'S......?
:help: :confused:

[magindat]

OK...
The idea is to provide VENTILATION. That means a path in and a path out. Do this while blocking boost from getting into the motor (seals issues) and get as much oil out of the ventilated air as possible since it gets sucked into the intake and has no octane.

One way is to use the car's own PCV system to accomplish such. basically you need a catch can and a check valve. You MUST pay attention to metered air. There's about 800 ways to do this.

The other way is to go old school, block ALL of the car's PCV systems off (relating to intake air) so that NONE of the PCV air is metered and use breathers and/or a vac pump. BTW, I have seen this work...

[Local Boy]

^^^ Rich (Magindat) is the man, when it comes to this stuff...

Follow his lead, and you'll be set to GO!

Just as Rich said, I'm installing a air/fuel separater with a one way check valve (to stop boost), to keep oil from being sucked up into the intake (all cars do this N/A and S/C'ed)...

Moreover, (following Rich's advice) I'am re-routing my PCV, and NOT running both PCV's to the inlet pipe...The drivers side will be the vacum side, leading to the - air/separater - one way check valve - intake manifold...This is to avoid oil from being drawn into the S/C and consequently into the intercooler. As you well know, oil in the intercooler reduces it's ability to cool in coming air, making them LESS efficient (higher IAT's!!! - NOT good)

Whether you are N/A or S/C'ed, I believe it's a good idea to use a oil/air separater...IMHO

BTW: Thanks Rich for all your help...

ALOHA

[ctrlraven]

I have browsed around Home Depot and Lowes and I can never find the air/oil separators. I know a lot of people use ones that are also used on air compressors.

I am NA and would want to do both sides. Anyone know exactly what I need and what sections of a store I can get them in? I would want to separate units.

[Zack]

I have browsed around Home Depot and Lowes and I can never find the air/oil separators. I know a lot of people use ones that are also used on air compressors.

I am NA and would want to do both sides. Anyone know exactly what I need and what sections of a store I can get them in? I would want to separate units.

In the Air tool Accessory Aisle.

[RR|Suki]

just put breathers on it :P

[Cordoba1]

just put breathers on it :P

Yeah -- On a N/A car? -- Don't waste your money. A little bit of vaporized oil in a N/A car will go unnoticed. If your engine is in good shape, you won't have that much blow-by anyway.

[TooManyFords]

I just picked up a kit from D'Agastino Racing down in Florida:

http://dagostinoracing.com/index.php?main_page=product_in fo&products_id=13990

This is part of the kit that includes two of these adapters to fit into the valve cover rubber grommets. When you call them, ask for the complete kit as it includes a Moroso aluminum catch-can with drain petcock, breather and a pair of these adapters. Then get yourself some sexy stainless braided hose with the AN fittings and you have what you need.

John

[magindat]

^^^ Rich (Magindat) is the man, when it comes to this stuff...

Follow his lead, and you'll be set to GO!

Just as Rich said, I'm installing a air/fuel separater with a one way check valve (to stop boost), to keep oil from being sucked up into the intake (all cars do this N/A and S/C'ed)...

Moreover, (following Rich's advice) I'am re-routing my PCV, and NOT running both PCV's to the inlet pipe...The drivers side will be the vacum side, leading to the - air/separater - one way check valve - intake manifold...This is to avoid oil from being drawn into the S/C and consequently into the intercooler. As you well know, oil in the intercooler reduces it's ability to cool in coming air, making them LESS efficient (higher IAT's!!! - NOT good)

Whether you are N/A or S/C'ed, I believe it's a good idea to use a oil/air separater...IMHO

BTW: Thanks Rich for all your help...

ALOHA

No, I'm not. I just listen and learn from others, then pass it on!

[magindat]

I have browsed around Home Depot and Lowes and I can never find the air/oil separators. I know a lot of people use ones that are also used on air compressors.

I am NA and would want to do both sides. Anyone know exactly what I need and what sections of a store I can get them in? I would want to separate units.

1) Don't do both sides. The side that provides air fro the crankcase doesn't need it cuz it never sees oil and the filter will be nothing but a restriction.

2) Speaking of restrictions, the filters from HD and Lowes are HIGHLY restrictive. So much so that they collapse the vac tubes.

Get or make a 'real' catch can that doesn't restrict flow and suck the tube shut. Otherwise, you may as well have NO PCV!

[RR|Suki]

Yeah -- On a N/A car? -- Don't waste your money. A little bit of vaporized oil in a N/A car will go unnoticed. If your engine is in good shape, you won't have that much blow-by anyway.

This thread was about blower cars I thought... seeing as the guy asking has such a car

[magindat]

I just picked up a kit from D'Agastino Racing down in Florida:

http://dagostinoracing.com/index.php?main_page=product_in fo&products_id=13990

This is part of the kit that includes two of these adapters to fit into the valve cover rubber grommets. When you call them, ask for the complete kit as it includes a Moroso aluminum catch-can with drain petcock, breather and a pair of these adapters. Then get yourself some sexy stainless braided hose with the AN fittings and you have what you need.

John

I'd rather build the kit myself. I'd never buy anything ever again from D'Agostino after the way I was treated down there!!!!

[TooManyFords]

I cannot comment on your experience, Rich. They were very helpful on the phone and shipped it the same day I ordered it. I felt that the $115 I spent on the two custom adapters and the Moroso kit was a pretty good deal. I know it will pass tech inspection too if racing is important. I'm not saying a home-made version wouldn't, but having the Moroso logo on the can helps.

John

[magindat]

I cannot comment on your experience, Rich. They were very helpful on the phone and shipped it the same day I ordered it. I felt that the $115 I spent on the two custom adapters and the Moroso kit was a pretty good deal. I know it will pass tech inspection too if racing is important. I'm not saying a home-made version wouldn't, but having the Moroso logo on the can helps.

John

Can't disagree with you there. The can itself is 100 at summit....
they just treated me like crap when I was there...

My homemade can has a sight glass, to it should pass tech if they were ever that picky.

[Loco1234]

I guess Im must be missing something here...
I got what to do from the many threads on the topic.

but my question is pertaining to WHY?

is it drag race required... does it unlock HP?
Does it extand engine life...? does it help the piston seal beter hence.....
Whjat are the cons...? are there any? if so what are the cons of the stock system....?

[magindat]

I guess Im must be missing something here...
I got what to do from the many threads on the topic.

but my question is pertaining to WHY?

is it drag race required... does it unlock HP?
Does it extand engine life...? does it help the piston seal beter hence.....
Whjat are the cons...? are there any? if so what are the cons of the stock system....?

1) Safety margin. We all try to get highest octane fuel to avoid detonation. If the motor is tuned for 93 octane and 0 octane oil mist is introduced, you're gonna detonate.

2) the stock system behind a centrifugal blower sucks oil into the blower itself. This oil then gets blown into the inside of the intercooler where it gets ucky. The ucky oil is an insulator and degrades the cooling performance of the intercooler.

3) The car is already set up for a PCV system. It just needs little modification to work under boost. The parts are available from Ford because they already make boosted cars that use them. If this wasn't the case, we'd all be using vac pumps.

4) We're still treating the engine as it was designed - for a PCV. We're just making the emission controls better and not endangering our motors by adding the catch can. It's actually better cuz we aren't adding carbon to the atmosphere, we're draining oil and disposing properly.

No HP gain.
Not a track requirement (that I know of).
Piston seal - who knows? Better to run as designed, at least.
It's all insurance and preventative medicine.

[Loco1234]

AWH thank you very much....



1) Safety margin. We all try to get highest octane fuel to avoid detonation. If the motor is tuned for 93 octane and 0 octane oil mist is introduced, you're gonna detonate.

2) the stock system behind a centrifugal blower sucks oil into the blower itself. This oil then gets blown into the inside of the intercooler where it gets ucky. The ucky oil is an insulator and degrades the cooling performance of the intercooler.

3) The car is already set up for a PCV system. It just needs little modification to work under boost. The parts are available from Ford because they already make boosted cars that use them. If this wasn't the case, we'd all be using vac pumps.

4) We're still treating the engine as it was designed - for a PCV. We're just making the emission controls better and not endangering our motors by adding the catch can. It's actually better cuz we aren't adding carbon to the atmosphere, we're draining oil and disposing properly.

No HP gain.
Not a track requirement (that I know of).
Piston seal - who knows? Better to run as designed, at least.
It's all insurance and preventative medicine.

[Marauderjack]

Rich,

A little oil in gas effectively increases octane as the oil molecules are much larger causing the mixture to burn slower!!:beer: Slow flame front equals more octane....:D

I have never had an oil problem in the blower.....intercooler....or intake and I have almost 170K miles on the motor with about 80K miles "under pressure" so I don't really see the necessity for the separator but the one you made is very nice!!:beer: Also, at almost 170K miles my car has never used any oil!!:bows: I have a theory on this but that's another thread altogether!!:cool:

The PCV system that ProCharger had set up was nothing but vents from both valve covers so to keep a functioning PCV system I (along with help from Mac and others) used the Cobra PCV valve on the driver's side and gutted the OEM PCV valve so I could use it as a fitting for filtered air coming from the fitting in front of the blower....it seems to work fine and has not been cleaned or changed for over two years!!:bows:

My $.02 FWIW??:confused:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Cobra25]

I had a Moroso Oil separator with filter installed in my Marauder for over 2 months. I took it out last week because I was getting fumes in the car no matter where I placed it. It has possitive point's and negitive point's.

[magindat]

Rich,

A little oil in gas effectively increases octane as the oil molecules are much larger causing the mixture to burn slower!!:beer: Slow flame front equals more octane....:D

I have never had an oil problem in the blower.....intercooler....or intake and I have almost 170K miles on the motor with about 80K miles "under pressure" so I don't really see the necessity for the separator but the one you made is very nice!!:beer: Also, at almost 170K miles my car has never used any oil!!:bows: I have a theory on this but that's another thread altogether!!:cool:

The PCV system that ProCharger had set up was nothing but vents from both valve covers so to keep a functioning PCV system I (along with help from Mac and others) used the Cobra PCV valve on the driver's side and gutted the OEM PCV valve so I could use it as a fitting for filtered air coming from the fitting in front of the blower....it seems to work fine and has not been cleaned or changed for over two years!!:bows:

My $.02 FWIW??:confused:

Marauderjack:burnout:

I've heard and understood many theories and based on them and experimentation have formualted my own thoughts, which I offer here...

The Mac way is also the 'DR' way which I have used with the can in the line, and the PCV check valve moved near to the intake to avoid hose collapse.

I'd like to learn your thoughts...

When you say 'haven't used oil', we're talking ounces over the course of an oil change. An amount one would never notice.

[TooManyFords]

Rich,

A little oil in gas effectively increases octane as the oil molecules are much larger causing the mixture to burn slower!!:beer: Slow flame front equals more octane....

This is terribly misleading. While it is true that the octane is affected because of oil vapors, what you end up with is greatly increased carbon deposits because of all those big heavy oil molecules. And what do carbon deposits cause? Yep, pinging and detonation.

So you definitely do NOT want large quantities of oil vapors being pulled in. The PCV system is designed to recycle the vapors to be more environmentally friendly, which is usually ok on your average family hauler. Throw in high performance or boost and then you have to worry.

John

[TooManyFords]

I had a Moroso Oil separator with filter installed in my Marauder for over 2 months. I took it out last week because I was getting fumes in the car no matter where I placed it. It has possitive point's and negitive point's.

Do you have pictures of how you had it installed?

[Marauderjack]

This is terribly misleading. While it is true that the octane is affected because of oil vapors, what you end up with is greatly increased carbon deposits because of all those big heavy oil molecules. And what do carbon deposits cause? Yep, pinging and detonation.

So you definitely do NOT want large quantities of oil vapors being pulled in. The PCV system is designed to recycle the vapors to be more environmentally friendly, which is usually ok on your average family hauler. Throw in high performance or boost and then you have to worry.

John

John,

I have A LOT of miles on my engine (almost 170K) about half N/A and half Supercharged and have yet to hear a single ping!!:shake:

I really don't see any blowby and when I installed the SC the intake was clean....I don't think todays synthetics create the mess of yesteryear??:confused:

Marauderjack:cool4:

[Cobra25]

Do you have pictures of how you had it installed? No I don't . Im sorry . I know how it is done on the Trilogy Unit. If your interested send me a pm with your phone # and I'll tell ya what you need and how to do it. .