Brake problem/issue.. HELP!!

[Spectragod]

Well, first off, this is on my DD 05' LX sport, but the platform shoud be the same, so, here we go.

I bought the car used with 40K on the clock and it has an extended ESP warranty. I have done an OASIS search, and the brakes had never been looked at before my taking it to the dealer.

The car has ABS, traction control and power adjustable pedals, FWIW.

I originally had a soft pedal, and pulsation in the brake pedal, I replaced the rotors and pads & and bled the brakes, (all the fluid was bled out and new bled in) which solved the pulsation, the pedal was still soft, bled the brakes 2 more times just to assure myself I got all the air out.... still soft.

Fast forward 2 weeks, I have plenty of stopping power, the pedal is still soft and I can now press it all the way to the floor, sitting at a stop, it will go all the way down, the car will never move, just the brake pedal.

I took the car to a Ford service facility that I actually trust, they swapped in a new master cylinder, I can no longer press the pedal to the floor, but it is still soft. I got the standard answer from the dealer, it's a CV, they are all like that.

So...... what do I need to do to make it not like all the rest? I drove a new 08 PI' today, the pedal is rock hard. Go figure.

I am hoping someone on this board has had a similar experience and can share the results that actually fixed the issue at hand. I have come across one other car that did this, a new brake booster actually fixed it, but.... before we start hanging parts...............

I need your input.

Thanks in advance

SG

[fastblackmerc]

Stainless steel brake lines

[Blackened300a]

I had a similar problem recently. I replaced all the brakes and bleed them with very slow steady pressure to build the pedal back up. That seemed to do the trick. Its been fine ever since and I have about 1000 miles since I did it.

[Spectragod]

I have bled them slowly, before I took it to the dealer, I almost suspect that they bench bled the master cylinder and threw it on with bleeding the rest of the system.

I am also game for the stainless lines, a link as to where I can latch onto a front and rear set would be great.

Thanks,
SG

[Krytin]

+ 1 with Blackend300a.
Bleeding ABS brakes are a pain!

[finster101]

What condition are your pads in? Often when the pads are pretty well worn the pedal can feel mushy. Also try to find a place where you can safely do a "panic" stop to try and induce an ABS event. This will cycle the motor and solenoids and if there is any trapped air this should displace it. Stainless lines will help but you need to find the root cause of the problem first.

[Spectragod]

What condition are your pads in? Often when the pads are pretty well worn the pedal can feel mushy. Also try to find a place where you can safely do a "panic" stop to try and induce an ABS event. This will cycle the motor and solenoids and if there is any trapped air this should displace it. Stainless lines will help but you need to find the root cause of the problem first.

The pads & rotors are new, I originally bled these with an air powered brake bleeder, I additionally bled them manually as well (just because I trust my abilities). I can cycle the ABS with a scan tool, or... in the parking lot.

I agree with finding the root cause first, that's why I am here asking those on a board that drive Panther's only.... you guy's are "in the know".

Thanks, and keep the suggestions coming,
SG

[carfixer]

Did you go through the "ABS Brake Bleed" procedure with the IDS?

[Spectragod]

If I had an IDS, I would have:(.

SG

[BAD MERC]

Stainless steel brake lines


Just did them - feels like I can do stoppies with it now.:banana2:

[ctrlraven]

For the SS brake lines our vendor Reinhart sells them. Link: http://reinhartautomotive.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=12345&Product_Code=MM-SSBL&Category_Code=9

I have them and they made a big difference, pedal still felt soft but by half brake pedal down it feels like I am slamming on the brakes.

[magindat]

Stainless steel brake lines

Ding Ding Ding NUMBER ONE ANSWER!!!!

[magindat]

They are available from two vendors... Reinhart Automotive and TCE Performance. Both are site vendors and very helpful and knowledgeable.

[Spectragod]

What condition are your pads in? Often when the pads are pretty well worn the pedal can feel mushy. Also try to find a place where you can safely do a "panic" stop to try and induce an ABS event. This will cycle the motor and solenoids and if there is any trapped air this should displace it. Stainless lines will help but you need to find the root cause of the problem first.

I engaged the ABS this morning, and viola, the pedal is rock hard. I just got off the phone with the dealer that did the master cylinder change, he assured me that they bled the system with their IDS, which, I doubt, because...... after replacing the master cylinder, he called and told me that the tech said the pedal was still soft, it would not have been if they had bled it to procedure.

So much for trusting a dealer, I guess I need to aquire a IDS to maintain my own vehicles now. I will also replace the brake lines.

Thanks a bunch guys.
SG

[magindat]

What is IDS?

[finster101]

What is IDS?


I believe it is the Ford scan tool. I am a GM guy ours is a Tech 2. I am not sure just guessing.

[Spectragod]

What is IDS?

Ford Integrated Diagnostic System

SG

[fastblackmerc]

I thought it is

Idiot Dip Switch.......

:D

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Stainless lines might be nice but are by no means necessary. I mean come on, pedal going to the floor and spongey brakes? That is not normal for a stock anything with new brakes.

Good to know you found the problem though

[Spectragod]

I thought it meant..........

It's Dead *****head

SG

[Richy04]

Firstly, I would check if the calipers are floating properly, they should be compensating for the pad wear in the front. In the rear some use a floating setup with a self adjusting caliper piston which ratchets out as the pads wear.

This Marauder is my first and I understand that the E-brake is not part of the caliper so the above rear arrangement mentioned may be a floating type or ratcheting piston type or both since the E-Brake is not part of the caliper arrangement. So someone can elaborate further there.

Most soft pedal issues are related to gaps in those areas or a bad master cylinder. I've never come across any problems bleeding ABS brakes over conventional brakes.

Anyone with a Nova or Camaro can tell you that if the rear drum brakes arent adjusted very close to the drum, you will never achieve hard pedal nirvana, the same goes for 4 wheel discs. So before you go crazy, check to see if the calipers are moving to compensate for wear and that anything that self adjusts is doing its thing before you go replacing stuff. The stainless lines will harden things up but if you had a hard pedal before the work, there is now something wrong.

Make sure they used a good replacement pad as well. If you bleed it again, lock up the ABS a few times in a safe location to shake things up then bleed it again.

[Spectragod]

Stainless lines might be nice but are by no means necessary. I mean come on, pedal going to the floor and spongey brakes? That is not normal for a stock anything with new brakes.

Good to know you found the problem though

I'm glad I got it sorted out as well, I am disappointed that the dealer didn't step up and do the job 111%, but I understand that warranty work doesn't pay top dollar either.

None the less, got lots of great info off this board from a whole lot of really good people, and for that I say thanks.....till I am able to buy you guys a beer:beer:.

SG