Trans and Tune - 0-60 time compares

[Svashtar]

Hey guys!

Been gone a long time. No $, but still have my baby all tricked out. Think I've done just about everything you can do to an N/A car, thanks to Dennis and Wes, Car Motorsports and other good guys.

I was wondering a couple of things and wanted to get your feedback.

I did the full Level II tranny upgrade with PI 3000 stall. I know some of you did the 3500, but that wasn't being offered at the time and I wanted to balance driveablity with performance.

It's been so long I can't even remember what the stock MM drive like. Now this sounds silly, but did anyone else feel initially like the car was _slower_ after the tranny upgrade?

Now, I KNOW that can't be true, 'cuz the car chirps the tires now and it never did before the work, but is that just the PI 3000? My theory is that the super tight tranny kind of impedes power now getting to the rear wheels, where before the loosy-goosy one didn't?

I know this sounds like BS, but just asking.

Yesterday I did some 0-60 times and was disappointed to find it right around 6.5 seconds. (Self-timed with one hand on the stopwatch timer on my wristwatch, one hand on the wheel, one eye on the road, one on the speedo and my foot to the firewall! So doing all that multi-tasking I could be off a bit.)

But isn't that the stock 0-60 time? But, hell, I don't know how they measure these times on the OEM cars, as far as weight, conditions, etc. Also, I weigh 310 pounds, and the car had just been topped off so had a full tank. I also have the trunk full of stuff.

The tranny feels all the time now like it used to only when I set OD off, and when I do hit OD off the engine steps up.

I'm guessing that _before_ I did all the upgrades, in the same conditions the OEM stock MM had to have been slower than 6.5 0-60. I just never timed it, and have forgotten what it felt like.

Thanks as always for any insight. :up:

Norm

[Smokie]

Stock 0 to 60 is supposed to be 7.5 seconds.

[Svashtar]

Stock 0 to 60 is supposed to be 7.5 seconds.

Uh, well, that will explain it! Geez. :o A second here, a second there...

I'm going to try again with an empty tank and trunk and see what happens.

The guy who did all the work on my car is Doug Hampton here in Salinas, and he won a bunch of titles at the Nationals last year. Told me that they allow drop-in's for folks to time their cars in the quarter mile up north here and I'd like to try it to get an official time.

[Local Boy]

With a high stall T/C you need to load it, before you take off...then you will be faster...

From a stand still (no loading) you will be slower, cause the T/C will take a little time off (slip) as you get closer to the stall point...

The larger point that we all experience modding N/A cars is that the first few mods provide dramatic results (tune/J-mod/etc.)...as you get in to modding more, the results become less dramatic...Takes more money to gain just a few Hp.. At this point the $$$ to Hp ratio is quite large (ex: $500 bucks to pick up a 5-8 Hp)...To some (me), it just doesn't seem worthy anymore; Hence the move toward a S/C, to tame your urge for speed...


ALOHA

[dohc324ci]

What are your current Mods? Just wondering because 6.5 with the mods I think you have the time is somewhat dissappointing....I only have a Lidio Tune, Flows and a drop in K&N and was hoping for at least 7 or a few tenths under. I was thinking JLT CAI, Pullies then TC to get me in the sub 6's. All said I am happy with the Lido tune and makes it a more enjoyable 4200lb daily driver!

[ctrlraven]

When I got my 3500 stall I was told my shifts would feel softer during normal driving but if I pre-loaded the converter then launch the shifts are very firm though since I run 255/55 kdw2 they won't chirp since they stick to the road very well.

I guess this means I need more power lol.

[Svashtar]

What are your current Mods? Just wondering because 6.5 with the mods I think you have the time is somewhat dissappointing....I only have a Lidio Tune, Flows and a drop in K&N and was hoping for at least 7 or a few tenths under. I was thinking JLT CAI, Pullies then TC to get me in the sub 6's. All said I am happy with the Lido tune and makes it a more enjoyable 4200lb daily driver!

This just shows what I know, or should say don't know. Thanks Local Boy for the info. Of course that must be it. I am going WOT from zero and just bare idle RPM, and losing time while the TC spools up to speed.

As for the mods, I have everything except exhaust. Just stock mufflers and Megs delete tips, but since I can't put on the Cobra headers or go to high-flow cats out here there's little point in changing them except for the sound factor. The engine is still breathing through those tiny tubes.

I have UD pullies, PHP CAI and Metco tube, Dennis' SCT tune, cooler stat and Densos, PI 3000 stall and full tranny rebuild, Granatelli coil connectors, 4:10's and TA performance stud/girdle kit, MMX drive shaft and Metco loop, Quickor rear sway bar (in Addco bushings), Addco FSB, Metco control arms (I'm thinking about a set of Zack's, but not sure if I can swing it right now) etc. Just got a nice set of KDW2's (KDW NT's) a few miles back.

BTW, I am also running the V-Rated 255/55's in the rear, but have no problem getting a chirp on the 1-2 shift.

I can't say what I should be able to do with all this, since I haven't really tried, just fooled around unofficially. I've always launched from a dead stop with the engine idling at whatever that is (800 rpm?).

I'll try it holding down the brake with the engine up to speed.

(Any RPM recommendations prior to launch would be welcome.)

Thanks,

Norm

[red]

Last time I data logged, I was getting low to mid 5 second 0-60's. I plotted the speed vs time using SCT LiveLink. This was with 2k+ launches and no spin.

[magindat]

I pull 0-60's per Aeroforce scan gauge in the 4.2-4.5 neighborhood. That's SC with 436 RWHP.

[Svashtar]

Last time I data logged, I was getting low to mid 5 second 0-60's. I plotted the speed vs time using SCT LiveLink. This was with 2k+ launches and no spin.


I pull 0-60's per Aeroforce scan gauge in the 4.2-4.5 neighborhood. That's SC with 436 RWHP.

OK, thanks but Red's a lot closer to me as far as the mods on his N/A car. (I wish I had his exhaust though, and didn't get an additional trans cooler. Otherwise we're about identical.) The difference is he's launching from 2K or so, and I've been launching from idle.

Thanks for the info.

BTW, I don't know about SCT LiveLink. Will the ScanGauge II I'm getting be able to calculate 0-60 times? I don't recall seeing that it had that feature though...

[magindat]

BTW, I don't know about SCT LiveLink. Will the ScanGauge II I'm getting be able to calculate 0-60 times? I don't recall seeing that it had that feature though...

Probly not. They don't refresh fast enough.

[red]

OK, thanks but Red's a lot closer to me as far as the mods on his N/A car. (I wish I had his exhaust though, and didn't get an additional trans cooler. Otherwise we're about identical.) The difference is he's launching from 2K or so, and I've been launching from idle.

Those times were before my current mods (stock midpipes and mufflers, Hankook tires, and no tune). I ran a test last night with a passenger (who was datalogging for me) and we were hitting low 5's off idle. Granted, it was 50 degrees out (more power, but no traction and no launching).

[magindat]

Those times were before my current mods (stock midpipes and mufflers, Hankook tires, and no tune). I ran a test last night with a passenger (who was datalogging for me) and we were hitting low 5's off idle. Granted, it was 50 degrees out (more power, but no traction and no launching).

I saw 3.7 once, but tossed it as a fluke.....

[red]

I saw 3.7 once, but tossed it as a fluke.....
No fluke. I have the graphs if you want them. I'm using time and speed as recorded over OBDII. Not an accelerometer.

[red]

Here's the graph of a 5.38 0-60 N/A run with my current mods (again, with passenger and off idle in good weather):<br/><br/><html><a href="http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/2/7/5/0_to_60.jpg"><img height="331" width="546" src="http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/4/2/7/5/0_to_60.jpg"></a></html

[magindat]

No fluke. I have the graphs if you want them. I'm using time and speed as recorded over ODBII. Not an accelerometer.

Aeroforce is also computed from OBD the same way. No accelerometer.

[red]

Aeroforce is also computed from OBD the same way. No accelerometer.
Right, understood. From those who use G-TECH and the like, I've heard complaints about accuracy. The only way you should get a fluke with OBDII is if the calculation is incorrect (e.g., in the gauge, which could come from a fouled reading) or if you have bad spin.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

When I got my 3500 stall I was told my shifts would feel softer during normal driving but if I pre-loaded the converter then launch the shifts are very firm though since I run 255/55 kdw2 they won't chirp since they stick to the road very well.

I have another car w/ lots of engine and trans mods (also a 4 spd OD) I swapped the torque converter from stock to a 2800 stall $600 converter, and yes the shifts at part throttle got a lot softer w/ that car. I can't say on the MM since mine is stock but I'd expect similar results. I was disappointed w/ softer part throttle shifts but at WOT it rocks.

[cyclopsram]

My 1968 Police Galaxie with the CJ 428, single 4bbl, and 375 hp with the C6 on regular gas would chirp em going into 3rd (top) at 90 mph with 100000 on the clock and probably another 50k worth of idling. We sure have come a long way. Wish I still had it, but the floor cracked from frame torque flexing and the road salt ate her up.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I have a 305 chevy in a Firebird that is the slowest thing ever but spins the tires shifting (shift kit). That alone doesn't tell you much

[safado]

As for the mods, I have everything except exhaust. Just stock mufflers and Megs delete tips, but since I can't put on the Cobra headers or go to high-flow cats out here there's little point in changing them except for the sound factor.

Thanks,

Norm

Why can't you put the cobra manifolds on?

[Svashtar]

Only took me 2 months to get back to you! Sorry... AFAIK anything forward of the cats is illegal here in CA. I offered to buy Dennis' complete cobra exhaust package, and he had to stop me and tell me I would be wasting my $ out here, as it wouldn't pass smog. Really sucks...