Fun With Ford Reps

[frdwrnch]

Had a Ford rep bring in his MM the other day w/abs light on. He's a bit green and only been in our area for a couple of months. Code retrieved indicated wheel speed mismatch(?). Noticed when I pulled the vehicle on the lift that the front end seemed higher than mine.
After I got the code I looked at the tire size on the front and laughed! Chastized the rep for not letting my dealer do the service. Of course you can't rotate these tires/wheels!
Surrounded by intelligence...

[rumble]

You mean the rep did his own rotation? This was his company
car right?

[TAF]

TOO funny, Russell...

Other than you, some other select few FoMoCo folks on here and the folks that work on my car (and a couple of others here)...MOST of the folks drawing paychecks from FoMoCo just don't have a clue about this car!

[RCSignals]

Someone said they rotate them side to side. Is that possible with these tires? Aren't they non-directional?

[rumble]

Exactly!

[frdwrnch]

Side to side only if you remove the tire from the rim and flip them around as they are directional also. Basicly you can't rotate 'em.

[gja]

HAHAHAHA,
Threaten to void his warranty!!!!!
Give 'em a taste of what we deal with.......

[2003_MM_FYRE49]

Originally posted by frdwrnch
Side to side only if you remove the tire from the rim and flip them around as they are directional also. Basicly you can't rotate 'em.

OK I just looked at my tires, there is nothing on the sidewall that says they are directional. I even looked at the tread pattern, it looks like they can go from side to side without dismounting them from the wheels. I've already done that without any problems.

Tim :fire: 49

[RCSignals]

The only marking I see is which wall is to face inside. That doesn't necessarily indicate directional

[TripleTransAm]

I believe I spotted something on the INSIDE sidewall of the tire indicating that it was just that... the inside sidewall. However, I don't recall any markings indicating a uni-directional nature as well.

Side note:
How's this for getting screwed? The Goodyear GSCs on my GTA are unidirectional. They are also asymmetric (like the BFGs). This means that I can only rotate them front to back etc, not side to side. Here's the killer... the GTA wheels have different offsets, front to rear. So rotation of any sort involves dismounting and remounting ALL 4 tires.

In retrospect, we have it easy with our MMs...

[Bigdogjim]

Well guess he learned about Marauder tires real quick.
It sad when the ones in charge do not bother to read the book.
Too bad you could not charge him. by the book, no less!

[UncleLar]

Uni-directional? Does that mean you could end up with your back tires going frontwards?

[rumble]

Frdwrnch,
Let me ask you this, would this be a rep who has "life or death" power when it comes to deciding warranty issues? If so, then that's scary!

[Crazieboutamerc]

I would say he is green, jezzz does he even now anything about cars??????

You need to void his warrenty just for being a dumb ass.

Tim

[Logan]

The stock KDFW's are NOT directional. You can rotate your tire side to side for all the good it'll do ya... Me, I just wear 'em into the ground and buy new ones...

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....

[jgc61sr2002]

The FMC rep should be assigned to view this site to learn something about the Marauder. He needs :help: :D

[jrzygrl]

Originally posted by Logan
The stock KDFW's are NOT directional. You can rotate your tire side to side for all the good it'll do ya... Me, I just wear 'em into the ground and buy new ones...

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..... I know Logan knows what he's talking about. But,I E-mailed BF to see before he posted and got this answer back.
"Has an Asymmetric tread design but, is not directional. You have to mount with one side out on your rim. The tire can be crossed to the opposite side of your vehicle."

[RF Overlord]

Kudos, jrzygrrrrrrrl...

Didn't doubt Logan either, but it's always nice to hear confirming info direct from the highest authority...

(No, not THAT highest authority, Willie...although if He were down here, I bet He'd drive a Marauder... :lol: )

[Dr Caleb]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Kudos, jrzygrrrrrrrl...

Didn't doubt Logan either, but it's always nice to hear confirming info direct from the highest authority...

(No, not THAT highest authority, Willie...although if He were down here, I bet He'd drive a Marauder... :lol: )

Puhhhhlease. "He"d drive a Sable.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by Dr Caleb
Puhhhhlease. "He"d drive a Sable.

Mea Maxima Culpa... :bows:

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Mea Maxima Culpa... :bows:


No, that would be a Nissan. :nono:

[Rob1559]

Being a recent MM owner I have question about the tires.
Why does Mercury use different sizes for front and rear?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Rob Kessler
Being a recent MM owner I have question about the tires.
Why does Mercury use different sizes for front and rear?

To get revenge on all of us for all the grief we've caused them in the past. ;)


Kidding... it's to get that 'musclecar' rake (or stance). The rear tires are wider, but the aspect ratio means the rear sidewalls will be slightly taller than the front ones. Hence the butt-in-the-air look.

[Rob1559]

OK.
So when it comes time to replace the tires can I use the size from the front on the back?

[RCSignals]

Rob, Be happy they use the same size wheel front and back. I heard the Chrysler Crossfire doesn't, and the new Pontiac GTO won't

[TripleTransAm]

Rob, you'll end up losing the Marauder 'stance' if you do, plus you'll have narrower tires in the rear. Might not be the best look for the Marauder. If your car has traction control, it might confuse the system as well, as it looks for particular differences in wheel speeds as a trigger. So if the rear wheels are no longer rotating at the same speed as they were before for a given road speed, the system might freak out.

[frdwrnch]

I'm w/Logan. I just plan on replacing them as they wear in their current location. I just figured due to the INSIDE labeling they were directional although I noticed the tread was not.

[MAD-3R]

Ok, a question has come up that The smarter half would like clearifying. Are all 5 rims (4 polished, and one spare) all the same size, or are there specific front and back sizes?

[jgc61sr2002]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
Ok, a question has come up that The smarter half would like clearifying. Are all 5 rims (4 polished, and one spare) all the same size, or are there specific front and back sizes? I beleive they are the same size. As for tire rotation I agree with Logan and frdwrnch, leave them till they need replacing.

[TripleTransAm]

Does that include width? If I'm not mistaken we sit on 235mm up front and 245mm in the rear... having the same wheels front and back would mean the rear tires would bulge out at the sidewalls, or the fronts would cup outwards on the edge of the treads...

Wait a minute... someone better confirm this size question soon, otherwise if they are the same width then we might have found a reason for our weird tire wear...

[RF Overlord]

The rims are all the same size...the only difference is the full-size spare rim is not polished...

...and RC, if you REALLY want to be confused and annoyed, there was one year (perhaps more) that the 'vette not only had different size tires (that's "tyres" to you, TTA, and Dr. Caleb :D ) front and rear, with directional tread patterns, but had different size rims front and rear, ALSO directional, so there were 4 different, non interchangeable rim/tire combinations on ONE freakin' car...at least we can move ours side-to-side... :rolleyes:

[TripleTransAm]

RF, you're thinking of the ZR-1, I believe. Monster tires (tires, yes) but hell for rotation.

So... here's the thought process:

We have identical size rims all around.

The 245mm rear tires are too wide, the sidewalls tuck in ever so slightly, the centers of the tires wear prematurely.

and...

The 235mm front tires are too narrow. Coupled with an already aggressive negative camber, we experience exaggerated inside front tire wear due to cupping of the tread (because the sidewalls have to bulge ever so slightly outwards to fit the rim).

This could be the case if the rim was sized for something in between 235 and 245.

So, how are we doing so far? Could this explain our weird tire wear?

[RF Overlord]

Sorry, dude...I thought "tyres" was the metric spelling...!

D'OH!

:lol:

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Sorry, dude...I thought "tyres" was the metric spelling...!



I recall reading the term 'tyres' in british automotive material and in some early Canadian stuff as well, but to tell you the truth I haven't seen that spelling in a LONG time. *shrug*

Heck, I even read some stuff where they referred to tires as 'pneumatics', LOL!

[RCSignals]

Yeah, well, you don't see me buying a Corvette do you?

:lol:

[bchapman]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
So... here's the thought process:

We have identical size rims all around.

The 245mm rear tires are too wide, the sidewalls tuck in ever so slightly, the centers of the tires wear prematurely.

and...

The 235mm front tires are too narrow. Coupled with an already aggressive negative camber, we experience exaggerated inside front tire wear due to cupping of the tread (because the sidewalls have to bulge ever so slightly outwards to fit the rim).

This could be the case if the rim was sized for something in between 235 and 245.

So, how are we doing so far? Could this explain our weird tire wear?

I'm in the process of hashing this out with my service manager. I was first told the odd wear was "normal" for tires that aren't rotated. I was then also told I must've knocked the wheels out of alignment. The dealer service rep told me I should've been getting my tires aligned every 10,000 miles!

I protested this "logic. "Normal" wear isn't concentrated only on the inner edge of the tires. Most of my driving is highway. Even if I had hit something, it would knock askew ONE wheel, and not affect both tires the exact same way. If the wheels are too angled, either they were set wrong at the factory (I thought the manager would have a stroke when I suggested that) or the specs are wrong and re-alignment to the same erroneous specs will not solve the issue.

My position is that since many of us are experiencing the same tread wear on the inner front tires, the extreme negative camber is to blame. That camber spec was set either (1) erroneously or (2) to give the car extremely aggressive hard turning capability. Aggressive hard turning is great for promotion, but the majority of "normal" driving for many of us is obviously wearing the tires out on the insides prematurely.

This morning, I'm having my car put on the rack to check the alignment. If the car is indeed in spec (as I suspect it is), I'm having the service manager contact the engineers at Ford. I want alternative specs issued for those of us who do not need the overly aggressive negative camber. The dealer is only authorized to bring the car to Ford specs and cannot make "arbitrary" changes. If the dealer is to make any changes to the published specs, they have to be approved through the company.

We'll see what happens this morning.