Tucker
03-03-2008, 09:14 AM
Well, as many of you have read we came up with an easy to install and inexpensive kit for the Crown Vic/Grand Marq and tested it a few weeks back.
Results were great and right on par with other JLT kits we have for the Mustang and Marauder.
Well we got our proto type parts in and decided to do even more testing.
Many think under hood temps are in the 180-200+ degree range and that’s just not so. Look under your hood and down, you can see the ground. Also, see the huge holes in the radiator support directly in front of where the JLT filter sits? Tons of air flows in and all around the engine compartment when you’re driving.
To prove this fact we can simply data log inlet air temps with a SCT X-3, Livewire or any number of tuning and data logging devices. Not only did we do this, we video taped it.
Test conditions 32-35 degrees. Exact temps are shown through out the videos. Now, the test is to show that both, the stock airbox and JLT kit will get an increase and decrease in IAT’s. What we want to show you is that BOTH do it, but at what speed your IAT’s will come down when you start to move. This will work the same with outside 35 degree temps and 90 degree temps. Take a look,
City driving:
You can easily see in the video that with the stock airbox, IAT's (Inlet air temps) stay about 8-10 degrees above ambient air temps when in 30-35 mph traffic. They rise to about 52 at a stop light and slowly come back down to 36-38 degrees when you get rolling back to 30-35mph.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlg7mycPzRo
Highway driving:
When getting on the highway IAT's were 6 degrees above ambient slowly coming down to 2-3 degrees above ambient. It took a very long time and speeds of 60-65 mph to get actual ambient air temp.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJi2bXQ4TUE
Now the JLT results:
Same conditions as all testing was done the same day with in the same hour.
City driving:
Very fast the IAT's were within 2 degrees of ambient air temps. At speeds of 35 we could even get ambient air temps for IAT's. Stop at a light and IAT's slowly creep up to 48 and quickly come back down to near ambient temp at 35 mph.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJph8HDRThw
Highway driving:
Getting on the highway the IAT's were already ambient temp at 32 degrees and stayed there during the 55-60 mph cruise. Flat foot the throttle and temps raise to 36-38 and quickly drop to 32 again.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xf1vgOaueU
Sit test.
We parked the car for 45 seconds and drove off.
The JLT kit IAT's climbed to 58-60 degrees and as we stared moving dropped at a rate of 2 degrees per every 1-2 seconds at 30-35 mph. Very fast.
The Stock air box climbed to a lower 52 degrees, but slowly dropped to the 8-10 degrees above ambient temps we saw in the city driving test.
What I found was that the open filter got the cool outside air much faster then the closed in airbox. Sitting temps climbed higher, but dropped fast when driving.
You need power when your moving, not sitting still. Also, getting ambient temps was much easier with the JLT then the stock box, for the same reason. Your car needs to breath. This also holds true in summer driving. You want to see the rate of increase and drop of IAT’s and also note that the stock box will get almost as hot as a free breathing JLT kit.
The longer it takes to get your IAT's down the longer your computer will pull timing.
We also dynoed the car again to see if we could repeat the last test.
For the dyno test, we monitored coolant temps to make sure every run was done at the same 188-190 degree coolant temps to make the test as equal as possible.
Run 1 for the day (run file#7) is fully stock, stock airbox and stock tune. We even disconnected the battery this time to clear the computer of any adaptive learning and be equal Vs. the JLT install. (another thing people claimed was wrong in the last test)
182.59 RWHP and 213.48 RWTQ
Lower then the stock run last time, but this is why you MUST DO A BASE LINE RUN THE SAME DAY YOU MAKE CHANGES! Your car will make different power everyday, period. You can not compare dyno results from last month to today. This is a HUGE misconception and very over looked part of dyno testing done by customers. Very important.
Anyway, run 2 (run file #8) we installed the JLT intake (10 minute job), disconnected the battery to clear the computer just like we did on the stock run. Let me explain this as many wanted to think this was a way to fool the computer. All intake kits require this. Why? It’s a quicker way to get the MAF to adjust to the new air and make needed timing and fuel adjustments. It's going to do it anyway after a few miles of driving, but this way is quicker.
So this time the A/F's with the JLT were almost exactly what they were stock, within .2-.4. Perfect.
Peak gains are good at 6 RWHP and 10 RWTQ, but as you see by the graph the gains were through out the rpm range and any where from 6 to a crazy 22 RWHP at 5900rpm. The 22 is a freak, but it's their.
Tq gains were great at 15 @ 3900 averaging 8-10 through out up to 12 and 14 above 5500rpm.
This is right on with many of the kits we have and very repeatable when tested correctly.
A little info about hood up Vs. hood down dyno testing.
Tests are done with the hood up for a very good reason. NO AMOUNT OF DYNO FANS CAN SIMULATE DRIVING SPEEDS. So to be fair to testnig is done with the hood up.
Well, let's make everyone happy and close the hood.
Run 3 (runfile #9) is stock hood up Vs. JLT hood closed.
We still made good gains of 4.4 RWHP and 6.2 Peak and average 6-8 hp across the rpm range and even higher in the upper rpms. That's a good gain for a much lower airflow then on the street.
First graph is stock Vs. JLT and 2nd is stock hood up Vs. JLT hood closed.
You will see in the pictures this is not an open filter under the hood. The heat shield on the JLT kit is designed so it sits just ¼” from the hood liner when the hood is closed and surrounds the filter on all sides and back to block the radiant heat at idle and low speed, but is open at the front to get all that cool outside air when you get moving.
We have been doing this for a while now and test everything we sell. If it doesn't make power or is bad for the vehicle, we don't make it.
The CV/GM community came to me asking for a kit, I did and got tons of slack from the members of crownvic.net. Seems as if they are getting over loaded with the wrong info from people tying to sell very expensive kits that include the Marauder MAF, airbox and a full SCT tune. This may work, but it's not needed to make power. For the $600+ your getting maybe 6-8 RWHP. I say maybe, because they don't even have dyno proof.
People, if you look at our record, read our results, see the videos and still don't want to buy it, don't, but be a smarter consumer and ask everyone for proof of their claims. It's just smart.
Ask those vendors to :
Show me IAT's of the MM box on a CV!
Show me dyno testing results of the MM box on a CV!
Do what I did, before you post what you "think" I did wrong or should do.
Were not here to lie or cheat anyone in the panther community, it's not worth it.
Your CV and GM is just like any other car on the road and responds to the same mods the same way. Don't let anybody tell you any different.
Thanks for reading this way too long post.
BTW,
ONLY $129
Jay
Results were great and right on par with other JLT kits we have for the Mustang and Marauder.
Well we got our proto type parts in and decided to do even more testing.
Many think under hood temps are in the 180-200+ degree range and that’s just not so. Look under your hood and down, you can see the ground. Also, see the huge holes in the radiator support directly in front of where the JLT filter sits? Tons of air flows in and all around the engine compartment when you’re driving.
To prove this fact we can simply data log inlet air temps with a SCT X-3, Livewire or any number of tuning and data logging devices. Not only did we do this, we video taped it.
Test conditions 32-35 degrees. Exact temps are shown through out the videos. Now, the test is to show that both, the stock airbox and JLT kit will get an increase and decrease in IAT’s. What we want to show you is that BOTH do it, but at what speed your IAT’s will come down when you start to move. This will work the same with outside 35 degree temps and 90 degree temps. Take a look,
City driving:
You can easily see in the video that with the stock airbox, IAT's (Inlet air temps) stay about 8-10 degrees above ambient air temps when in 30-35 mph traffic. They rise to about 52 at a stop light and slowly come back down to 36-38 degrees when you get rolling back to 30-35mph.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jlg7mycPzRo
Highway driving:
When getting on the highway IAT's were 6 degrees above ambient slowly coming down to 2-3 degrees above ambient. It took a very long time and speeds of 60-65 mph to get actual ambient air temp.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJi2bXQ4TUE
Now the JLT results:
Same conditions as all testing was done the same day with in the same hour.
City driving:
Very fast the IAT's were within 2 degrees of ambient air temps. At speeds of 35 we could even get ambient air temps for IAT's. Stop at a light and IAT's slowly creep up to 48 and quickly come back down to near ambient temp at 35 mph.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJph8HDRThw
Highway driving:
Getting on the highway the IAT's were already ambient temp at 32 degrees and stayed there during the 55-60 mph cruise. Flat foot the throttle and temps raise to 36-38 and quickly drop to 32 again.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xf1vgOaueU
Sit test.
We parked the car for 45 seconds and drove off.
The JLT kit IAT's climbed to 58-60 degrees and as we stared moving dropped at a rate of 2 degrees per every 1-2 seconds at 30-35 mph. Very fast.
The Stock air box climbed to a lower 52 degrees, but slowly dropped to the 8-10 degrees above ambient temps we saw in the city driving test.
What I found was that the open filter got the cool outside air much faster then the closed in airbox. Sitting temps climbed higher, but dropped fast when driving.
You need power when your moving, not sitting still. Also, getting ambient temps was much easier with the JLT then the stock box, for the same reason. Your car needs to breath. This also holds true in summer driving. You want to see the rate of increase and drop of IAT’s and also note that the stock box will get almost as hot as a free breathing JLT kit.
The longer it takes to get your IAT's down the longer your computer will pull timing.
We also dynoed the car again to see if we could repeat the last test.
For the dyno test, we monitored coolant temps to make sure every run was done at the same 188-190 degree coolant temps to make the test as equal as possible.
Run 1 for the day (run file#7) is fully stock, stock airbox and stock tune. We even disconnected the battery this time to clear the computer of any adaptive learning and be equal Vs. the JLT install. (another thing people claimed was wrong in the last test)
182.59 RWHP and 213.48 RWTQ
Lower then the stock run last time, but this is why you MUST DO A BASE LINE RUN THE SAME DAY YOU MAKE CHANGES! Your car will make different power everyday, period. You can not compare dyno results from last month to today. This is a HUGE misconception and very over looked part of dyno testing done by customers. Very important.
Anyway, run 2 (run file #8) we installed the JLT intake (10 minute job), disconnected the battery to clear the computer just like we did on the stock run. Let me explain this as many wanted to think this was a way to fool the computer. All intake kits require this. Why? It’s a quicker way to get the MAF to adjust to the new air and make needed timing and fuel adjustments. It's going to do it anyway after a few miles of driving, but this way is quicker.
So this time the A/F's with the JLT were almost exactly what they were stock, within .2-.4. Perfect.
Peak gains are good at 6 RWHP and 10 RWTQ, but as you see by the graph the gains were through out the rpm range and any where from 6 to a crazy 22 RWHP at 5900rpm. The 22 is a freak, but it's their.
Tq gains were great at 15 @ 3900 averaging 8-10 through out up to 12 and 14 above 5500rpm.
This is right on with many of the kits we have and very repeatable when tested correctly.
A little info about hood up Vs. hood down dyno testing.
Tests are done with the hood up for a very good reason. NO AMOUNT OF DYNO FANS CAN SIMULATE DRIVING SPEEDS. So to be fair to testnig is done with the hood up.
Well, let's make everyone happy and close the hood.
Run 3 (runfile #9) is stock hood up Vs. JLT hood closed.
We still made good gains of 4.4 RWHP and 6.2 Peak and average 6-8 hp across the rpm range and even higher in the upper rpms. That's a good gain for a much lower airflow then on the street.
First graph is stock Vs. JLT and 2nd is stock hood up Vs. JLT hood closed.
You will see in the pictures this is not an open filter under the hood. The heat shield on the JLT kit is designed so it sits just ¼” from the hood liner when the hood is closed and surrounds the filter on all sides and back to block the radiant heat at idle and low speed, but is open at the front to get all that cool outside air when you get moving.
We have been doing this for a while now and test everything we sell. If it doesn't make power or is bad for the vehicle, we don't make it.
The CV/GM community came to me asking for a kit, I did and got tons of slack from the members of crownvic.net. Seems as if they are getting over loaded with the wrong info from people tying to sell very expensive kits that include the Marauder MAF, airbox and a full SCT tune. This may work, but it's not needed to make power. For the $600+ your getting maybe 6-8 RWHP. I say maybe, because they don't even have dyno proof.
People, if you look at our record, read our results, see the videos and still don't want to buy it, don't, but be a smarter consumer and ask everyone for proof of their claims. It's just smart.
Ask those vendors to :
Show me IAT's of the MM box on a CV!
Show me dyno testing results of the MM box on a CV!
Do what I did, before you post what you "think" I did wrong or should do.
Were not here to lie or cheat anyone in the panther community, it's not worth it.
Your CV and GM is just like any other car on the road and responds to the same mods the same way. Don't let anybody tell you any different.
Thanks for reading this way too long post.
BTW,
ONLY $129
Jay