Service Manager's Warranty Advice.......

[60birdtom]

OK guys, I've read your comments. Now it is time to talk about how Ford feels about modifications to your Marauder and how it may affect your warranty.

To start with, let me quote from the Mercury 2003 Warranty Guide with regards to what IS NOT COVERED:

"Accidents, collision, objects stricking a vehicle, theft vandalism, riot, fire, explosion, freezing."

So far, so good. Let me continue:

"Misusing the vehicle, such as driving over curbs, overloading, RACING, or using the vehicle as a stationary power source"; "ALTERING THE VEHICLE - including body, chassis, or components - after the vehicle leaves Ford's control.

"Non-Ford parts installed after the vehicle leaves Ford's control. For example, but not limited to, cell phones, alarm systems and automatic starting systems, and PERFORMANCE-ENHANCING POWERTRAIN CHIPS"

"Tampering with the vehicle, tampering with emissions systems, or with other parts that affect these systems"

"Ford Motor Company may deny you warranty coverage if your vehicle or part has failed because of ABUSE, NEGLECT, IMPROPER MAINTENANCE, UNAPPROVED MODIFICATIONS, or any items included (sic) above"

I placed a phone call today (Aug 11) to the Mercury Customer Service Center. I identified myself as a Service Manager and Marauder owner and asked for clarification of the Warranty issue. Simply put, here is their answer:

A part that has failed as a result of a modification will not be covered under warranty.

Conclusion: make whatever modifications you want to but be aware that they can lead to the declining of a warranty claim.

If you upload a PCM upgrade and it fries the PCM, you are going to pay for the repair.

If you make a modification that leads to a part failure, you will pay for the repait.

If you decide to race your vehicle and a part fails, you will pay for the repair.

These are the facts and they may not be what you want to hear, but if you expect Ford to pay for a part failure under warranty, be aware of the consequences of your decisions.

----------------------

Now, if you have any other warranty-related questions, just ask and I'll try to answer them as best as I can.

Just don't "kill the messanger". They're not my policies, but Fords.

[deerejoe]

60birdtom:

Thats good information; which I'm sure most owners on this site are aware of.

Thank you for your candor...you obviously do your home work.

[BRSMERC]

"Ford Motor Company may deny you warranty coverage if your vehicle or part has failed because of ABUSE, NEGLECT, IMPROPER MAINTENANCE, UNAPPROVED MODIFICATIONS, or any items included (sic) above"

Would Ford formally explain their reasoning for denying warrantee assuming the failure was caused by the modifications? How should a customer negotiate under these conditions? How should a customer negotiate if the failure wasn't caused by modifications?

[RCSignals]

If you upload a PCM upgrade and it fries the PCM, you are going to pay for the repair.

Question regarding an upload vice a chip.

If one were to upload a program from a tuner such as the superchips tuner, then later restore the stock programming with the tuner, is there some sort of signature left in the PCM from doing that? Can a technician detect it with the diagnostic equipment?

[60birdtom]

Re: Negotiating a Warranty Denial.

There really is no generic answer for this question since it has to be on a case-by-case basis. Much has to do with what part failed and why.

Let's say that your Marauder gets towed into the Dealership with a blown transmission. The Service Manager notices that the rear tires are just about shot and there is only 10,000 miles on the car. The tech runs a quick scan to pull fault codes from the PCM and detects a non-Ford program. In this case, it would be reasonable to assume that the car had been modified, possibly for racing or at least run very hard. The Service Manager could deny coverage based on this and you, as a customer would have a very difficult time convincing Ford that they should fix your car.

Re: Detecting PCM programs.

Yes, whenever a PCM is flashed, it leaves a "cookie" indicating what was done and when. The reason for this is to assist the tech in diagnosing problems. If you were to restore the factory settings before taking your car to the Dealer, the tech would likely not detect it unless he specifically was looking for it.

But, here's the rub. If the PCM were to fail and be replaced under warranty, it gets returned to Ford. If Ford were to detect it, which is likely, two things would happen: 1) Ford would deny the warranty claim to the Dealer and Chargeback the repair and 2) Your vehicle would be branded making any future warranty claims difficult to get honored.

Needless to say, your Dealer would not be happy about not getting paid for an expensive repair and you would not be happy about any future visits. This is especially true if your visits to the Dealer are only for the "fix only what's for free" stuff.

[RF Overlord]

60bird:

Thanks for giving us the dealer perspective on this issue, but let's not lose sight of a couple of things...

1. The warranty policies as stated above have ALWAYS been in effect...this isn't something new Ford has initiated just for the MM...and...

2. People have been successfully doing mods of various types for YEARS, despite the warnings and dire consequences. My feeling is that if I do a mod NOW that breaks something, I have to pay for it; if I wait until the warranty is up and do the same mod and break something, I STILL have to pay for it, so what's the difference? I might as well do it now and get the enjoyment out of it...besides, with most WELL DESIGNED mods, installed CORRECTLY, the chance of the mod being the direct cause of the failure is very low...

IMHO...$0.02...whatever....

[Smokie]

60birdtom : First I want to sincerely thank you for the valuable info you have given us and your patience and candor. I do have a little problem with a little word you have used a couple of times "free" I think what you are trying to do is a draw a difference between paid service and warranty service, however there is no such thing as "free" service, the warranty is fully paid for by the customer in the purchase price, second this "free" service that the customer "paid" for is far from free to customer because of lost of time and vehicle use. time=money. Tom I'm not saying this in anger and I mean it when I say I'm glad you joined our club and am grateful for the valuable info, I think your perspective on that word is just a little different than mine. My statements are not directed at situations were the customer altered the car in a way that directly caused the failure, but those cases where the car simply has a problem.
:D :D :D

[BRSMERC]

60bird:
You are a service manager that I would like to deal with. The dealership I am with now has been very good with me.
What would you think of a customer who came in with some substantial modifications, discussed them with you, and asked for a fair consideration on warrantee work? This puts everything up front with no deception while trying to build a relationship with the service department?

[DetGeno]

60birdtom
Thx for all your helpful input. I own a stock MM with no Mods yet but interested in p/u one of the Superchip Tuners. So what are you telling us is that a aftermarket computer chip "PERFORMANCE-ENHANCING POWERTRAIN CHIPS" would be covered under Warranty but a fried PCM would not? Is that correct? How much would a normal PCM replacement job run on average? Funny how other Extended Warranty companys would cover everything but Ford warranty can deny you just because you didn't stay stock!

[jgc61sr2002]

Originally posted by Smokie
60birdtom : First I want to sincerely thank you for the valuable info you have given us and your patience and candor. I do have a little problem with a little word you have used a couple of times "free" I think what you are trying to do is a draw a difference between paid service and warranty service, however there is no such thing as "free" service, the warranty is fully paid for by the customer in the purchase price, second this "free" service that the customer "paid" for is far from free to customer because of lost of time and vehicle use. time=money. Tom I'm not saying this in anger and I mean it when I say I'm glad you joined our club and am grateful for the valuable info, I think your perspective on that word is just a little different than mine. My statements are not directed at situations were the customer altered the car in a way that directly caused the failure, but those cases where the car simply has a problem.
:D :D :D Smokie - I Concur. Last time I checked a MM costs about 30G.

[89lxbill]

Simply put guys as I also work at a Ford dealer. Don't do anything that you are not prepared to be responsible for. I have a customer with a Marauder S and he believed that he would have powertrain warranty after he got it back from Kenny Brown. I told him that it is not likely he should even try to make any powertrain claims because of the nature of his mods. He does still get the interior trim and stuff like that, but say the transmission mount breaks, the first thing they are going to see is that supercharger sitting under the hood and say "Nope". All I am saying is just be prepared. I try to work with people, but really the dealership's hands are tied. They are at the mercy of FoMoCo.

[60birdtom]

Re: "Free Stuff"

Yes, it is true that anticipated warranty costs are built into the sale price of the car and in that sense you have paid for it. However, that is not what I'm talking about.

The Dealership Service Department is, in a sense, a business within a business. As such, Dealership personnel establish a relationship with regular customers as any other business would. Customers who approach us and whose first words are "I only want you to fix what's under warranty" and who will not spend a dime on maintenance or non-covered repairs (but will spend it elsewhere) are not considered "good customers" by any sense of the word. They only want what is covered and nothing else and that is exactly what they will get!

Don't miss my point here: taking your vehicle to the Dealer for non-covered repairs or maintenance makes you a valuable Service Department customer. The Service Manager, if he is any good, recognizes this and will stand by you unless your claim is clearly out-of-line, which is rare.

Putting it another way, why should you expect a Service Manager to go out on a limb and risk a warranty chargeback if you only want to use him for the "free stuff"?

Re: Extended Warranties.

I've been waiting for this question. There are many, many extended warranty companies out there - some better than others - who differ greatly in what they will or will not pay for. I've dealt with many of them including one that is currently under suspension pending bankruptcy. But the one thing that they all seem to have in common concerns the issue of modiications as a basis for voiding the warranty completely. Read your contract and you will most likely find this clause somewhere in the fine print.

Look guys, I'm not trying to talk you out of using after-market modifications on your Marauders. In fact, I'm considering an upgrade to give me a better low RPM response and crisper shifting. I just want to provide a little "reality check" if you encounter warranty problems because of your decisions. And, if that happens, don't get mad at the Service Manager since he is bound by policies established by Ford and clearly outlined in your warranty information booklet.

[Smokie]

60birdtom: I understand what you mean, my relationship with my Service Manager goes back years before MM. (CrownVic) and all maintenance and repairs both paid for or "free" (ha,ha) are done at his free standing Ford service facility. I fixed every vehicle I ever owned while raising my three sons (had no choice) but I did not enjoy it. For about the last 5 years I don't even do an oil change and it makes me very happy. In regards to a possible upgrade to your car, programming can wake up the low-end more than you probably would believe if I told you. If you want to loose that dead spot in throtle response on take off and have it shift like it really means it, try it....you'll like it. :banana2: :beer: :banana:

[WolfeBros]

60Bird,
Try the chip upgrade. Fixing the shift points will make you grin and you will see why we are so high on the mod. :D

[Marauderman]

I'm with and agree with RF --his comments on the 12th here a few post back...that's my story as well and I'm sticking to it!!!