exhausted search options and still confused about tires. please teach me

[fastf50rd]

Well i'm at that point, which comes way to often, to replace my rears tires. I've searched and read countless number of posts regarding rear tire options. It seems like I'm either gonna go with the goodyear F1 GS D3's, the nitto 420s's, or the goodyear eagle ResponsEdge all in 255/55/18. Am I correct in saying that going with the above rear size, and maintaining the stock fronts, I WILL NOT have t/c,/ ABS issues. From searching, this is the conclusion I came to. Seems the rear will be beefier but with no sensor issues. Is this true or false. Thanks for the input.
-Matt

[Eric-Blk2004]

+1....me too

[Blk Mamba]

I think this is true, but I also believe that if you keep the correct proportion between the front, and rear that the only problem will be the inaccuracy of the speedo, odometer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[gmtech]

i run 255/55 nitto 420s and there is no issuses, speedo off by .7mph at 60mph so no big deal..they have great traction and look great as well, they are wearing like IRON:beer:

[fastf50rd]

i run 255/55 nitto 420s and there is no issuses, speedo off by .7mph at 60mph so no big deal..they have great traction and look great as well, they are wearing like IRON


Is this with the stock fronts? If so I'll go with these cause they're cheaper too.

[Bobmiddle]

I have heard that it is not safe to different tread styles front and rear. It might cause tracking issues due to the tread and traction being different from front and rear. Other owners on this sight have had issues and wrecked MM's because of this mistake. Maybe someone with more experience with this will chime in.

[magindat]

I ran mixed front rear for over three years and 50K miles. The set up was MORE stable than stock.

I started the whole 420s thing. they are good long-wearing tires with good grip, excellent wet traction, strong sidewall and better lateral predictability than stock.

Red uses the good year GS D3 or whatever. They are soft and grip like a mother at the track. They'll wear out sooner. Frank says they are good in the wet as well.

Many are now using 420s with a stock front.

Just ask yourself if you want long wear and better than fair track adhesion (mine gripped awesome NA) or if you want track adhesion as your primary concern.

You'll be happy with 420s and when it's time for fronts uses Nitto 555's. It's an excellent, proven and predictable combo.

[gmtech]

Is this with the stock fronts? If so I'll go with these cause they're cheaper too.
yes i run the stock fronts...traction is great while cornering also, this is my daily driver and i can tell you that mine feels very stable..have run it to 130mph and they feel great!!!!

[fastf50rd]

Sweet goin with the 420s then. thanks for the clarification guys!!

[Aren Jay]

http://www.neuralimpulse.com/maraudertires.htmlhttp://forums.nasioc.com/forums/images/smilies/sadbanana.gif

[Eric-Blk2004]

Damn...I am doing the BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 Blackwall (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+T%2FA+KDW+2&partnum=555VR8GFTAKDW2RF&i1_Qty=2). My brother has these on the WRX and his car is on rails!

Any thoughts?

[red]

Well i'm at that point, which comes way to often, to replace my rears tires. I've searched and read countless number of posts regarding rear tire options. It seems like I'm either gonna go with the goodyear F1 GS D3's, the nitto 420s's, or the goodyear eagle ResponsEdge all in 255/55/18.

I like the GS D3's. Others are correct in that they have a low treadwear rating, but how quickly they actually wear is all dependent on driving style. There are many reviews (>2500) on tirerack for these tires; they are the top rated wet traction tire (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=MP&VT=null&sortValue=14) on the site and many have gone over 25k on the tires (sort by most miles) (http://www.tirerack.com/survey/SurveyComments.jsp?additionalC omments=y&commentStatus=P&tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+F1+GS-D3&tirePageLocQty=). My autocross buddies use these tires, and the tires have proven to be a good dragstrip tire for me (best 60' to date is a 1.927).


Am I correct in saying that going with the above rear size, and maintaining the stock fronts, I WILL NOT have t/c,/ ABS issues.

That's correct. This is a common tire size upgrade for Marauder owners and is within the ABS/TC threshold.

[red]

I have heard that it is not safe to different tread styles front and rear. It might cause tracking issues due to the tread and traction being different from front and rear. Other owners on this sight have had issues and wrecked MM's because of this mistake.
That's absolutely right. The wrong tires for the wrong condition has also lead to several MM wrecks (e.g., people driving on summer tires in the ice and snow). The concepts behind why you should not do this are easy to understand, but often ignored. Any vehicle manufacturer, tire manufacturer, or respectable tire reseller will tell you that this is a bad idea. Even Nitto speaks to this on their site, saying (http://www.nittotire.com/assets/safety/Proper%20Selection%20of%20Repl acement%20Tires.pdf):

Nitto does not recommend mixing different speed rated tires on any vehicle.... this results in tires that have different performance characteristics, hence their statement.

Here is an article (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=136) from TireRack about mixing tires.

[DOOM]

I think im going to go with the eagle f1 gs-d3's.

[fastf50rd]

Nitto does not recommend mixing different speed rated tires on any vehicle.

I do agree with this as well. But the mere fact the the BFG's suck for longevity, and my fronts are still mint, I will be mixing front and back. Red you do have me looking more into the D3's, I just think I'll be going with nitto's in the front once the BFG's wear enough. Thanks for all your input though, helped me considerably.

[Blackmobile]

Damn...I am doing the BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDW 2 Blackwall (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=g-Force+T%2FA+KDW+2&partnum=555VR8GFTAKDW2RF&i1_Qty=2). My brother has these on the WRX and his car is on rails!

Any thoughts?
Goodluck finding them for the rear, as far as I know they are no longer being manufactured in that size.

[Aren Jay]

I think im going to go with the eagle f1 gs-d3's.


Me too.

For the rears at first and then upgrading the fronts at some point.

[red]

Me too.

For the rears at first and then upgrading the fronts at some point.
I recommend doing them all at once. If you do, you can always sell your fronts here to make up some of the cost! ;) If not, just realize that a softer compound in the rear will contribute to understeer and that the fronts and rears may handle differently (e.g., in rain). Let us know when and what you decide!

[red]

I do agree with this as well. But the mere fact the the BFG's suck for longevity, and my fronts are still mint, I will be mixing front and back. Red you do have me looking more into the D3's, I just think I'll be going with nitto's in the front once the BFG's wear enough. Thanks for all your input though, helped me considerably.
Just an option: you could sell your tires here. What size Nittos in the front and would you be mixing them with the GS-D3 or 420S (both of these are much different designs from the 555)?

[John F. Russo]

That's absolutely right. The wrong tires for the wrong condition has also lead to several MM wrecks (e.g., people driving on summer tires in the ice and snow). The concepts behind why you should not do this are easy to understand, but often ignored. Any vehicle manufacturer, tire manufacturer, or respectable tire reseller will tell you that this is a bad idea. Even Nitto speaks to this on their site, saying (http://www.nittotire.com/assets/safety/Proper%20Selection%20of%20Repl acement%20Tires.pdf):
... this results in tires that have different performance characteristics, hence their statement.

Here is an article (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=136) from TireRack about mixing tires.

Are you saying that if I use two different brands of tires--one brand in the front and another brand in the rear--its okay as long as they are, in my case,
Z-speed rated tires?

[mm.owner]

I've been running the GY Eagle F1 GS D3 for 5K miles.

Bought an 03 MM with 27K miles, original BFG tires, r r was bald, couple others had cracking sidewalls.

4 new BFG tires unavailable in Sept 07. Spent hours researching tires. TireRack most helpful. I wanted to stay with same brand, same pattern, same wear all around. It was between GY and Nitto.

I went with GY because of the wet traction review and mostly, the way they look.

So far, no compalints. Sticky. Don't know if they're good for burnouts. I hope to get 20K miles. Most expensive tires I've ever bought, $1,000 for 4, including alignment and taxes. GY store wanted even more! Went to local tire specialty shop.

When 20K miles comes around, I'll be faced with staying with what I got, going to original BFG or Nitto.

Let us know what you decide.

BV

[fastf50rd]

would you be mixing them with the GS-D3 or 420S (both of these are much different designs from the 555)?


I was thinking of going with the 420s out back and the 555's up front. A few people here seem to be running this combo with good results. Still open for suggestions though.

[red]

Are you saying that if I use two different brands of tires--one brand in the front and another brand in the rear--its okay as long as they are, in my case,
Z-speed rated tires?
Speed rating (and compounds) are not the only considerations. Tread design, which affects how well water is channeled away from the tire, plays a critical role. Consider fronts that channel water poorly and rears that channel well, or vice versa; this could lead to a traction differential that could be dangerous in a turn on a wet road. Also, sidewall construction can affect how a tire reacts to turns. Consider stiff front and soft rear sidewalls. When cornering or making emergency maneuvers, your fronts will react predictably, while your rears will have play and a delayed response due to the soft sidewall causing the tire to "roll" on the rim. These examples are not conclusive by any means, but are things you might want to consider.

[red]

I was thinking of going with the 420s out back and the 555's up front. A few people here seem to be running this combo with good results. Still open for suggestions though.
You're right, there are people running this combination and other mixes. However, the fronts and rears have significantly different tread designs. I'd be interested in comparing say a matched front-rear set and the Nitto setup on a wet skid pad.

[STLR FN]

I'm running Falken's Ziex S/T-Z01's. 235/50 in front and a 255/55 in the rear. Had em on for about a year now and really like em. They're an Street SUV tire and have the same ratings or better than the stock BFG's. They've worn really well and have done better than expected here in Mich in the snow. I was able to get em 124 for the fronts and 105 for the rears. If you haven't gotten new tires yet look into 'em.

[airborne_mp84]

Well i'm at that point, which comes way to often, to replace my rears tires. I've searched and read countless number of posts regarding rear tire options. It seems like I'm either gonna go with the goodyear F1 GS D3's, the nitto 420s's, or the goodyear eagle ResponsEdge all in 255/55/18. Am I correct in saying that going with the above rear size, and maintaining the stock fronts, I WILL NOT have t/c,/ ABS issues. From searching, this is the conclusion I came to. Seems the rear will be beefier but with no sensor issues. Is this true or false. Thanks for the input.
-Matt I HAVE F1 GS DSs ON MY REAR 255/55 18 AND NO PROBLEM WHAT SO EVER

[fastf50rd]

the fronts and rears have significantly different tread designs. I'd be interested in comparing say a matched front-rear set and the Nitto setup on a wet skid pad.

If they made a matched set in my sizes I would without a doubt get them. But it seems the 555's are the only way to go. Atleast I'm keeping the same manufacturer, I know this doesnt' really matter considering the tread is diff.

[Blackened300a]

I been running Nitto 420S on the rears for over a year with the stock fronts and my car handles great with no issues even in wet weather.

They are inexpensive and last a long time through burnouts and a few track events.
I speak from experience... :D:burnout:

[red]

Atleast I'm keeping the same manufacturer, I know this doesnt' really matter considering the tread is diff.
Agreed, this doesn't matter for the tread design and other reasons.

[red]

I been running Nitto 420S on the rears for over a year with the stock fronts and my car handles great with no issues even in wet weather.
Again, I vote for testing out the consequences of mismatched tires on a wet skid pad.

[fastf50rd]

I got the 420s on. They look bada$$ and handle like a dream. Nice n cushy now over potholes and bumps. Seem to hook really well to. I drove in the rain a few times now n they seem to have real decent wet traction. Thanks all for the responses.

[Blackmobile]

Again, I vote for testing out the consequences of mismatched tires on a wet skid pad.

I vote, go to a Mall parking lot and try it. Up north in the winter, that use to be a common occurrence after and during snow storms. In all honesty mismatch tires in a high speed spin, mean very little. At a low speed spin out, it's more so in the drivers hands to control it. Up north in the winter where it's common to install snow tire and drive in conditions ever more slippery than rain, mismatch tire are accepted as the norm. How many people change their front tires because it's winter? That's my :twocents:

[red]

Up north in the winter, that use to be a common occurrence after and during snow storms. In all honesty mismatch tires in a high speed spin, mean very little. At a low speed spin out, it's more so in the drivers hands to control it. Up north in the winter where it's common to install snow tire and drive in conditions ever more slippery than rain, mismatch tire are accepted as the norm. How many people change their front tires because it's winter?
First, no tire is going to save someone from driving too fast for the conditions... "you can't fix stupid". So, if someone's already broken loose or are in a hydroplane at high speed, then they're going to deal with the consequences regardless of tire. If they're driving sensibly (e.g., in the rain) and the tire channels are performing their function (i.e., channeling water), then the differences in mismatched tread can be unfortunately realized and result in the pairs hydroplaning at different rates or cause the rears to hydroplane earlier due to poor front tire channeling. Concerning winter driving, mixing winter and non-winter tires is related to the above and should be strongly discouraged (most vehicle manufacturers address this in their owner guides). In dry conditions, compound mismatching is another issue that can lead to undesirable handling. A soft compound tire, or generally a "grippier" tire, in the front will contribute to oversteer--a condition most drivers are unaccustomed to since manufacturers typically design for an understeer bias. Also, a mismatch in the sidewall design (i.e., stiff versus soft sidewall) can cause problems in emergency maneuvering as the softer sidewall will have a slower response due to "rolling" on the rim.

[Ozz]

IMO, tires with matching tread front to rear isn't going to be the determining factor in issues of car control.
Think about this - when driving in rain, the front tires do most of the work since the rear tires run in the 'parting of the sea' that the front tires performed just miliseconds before (yes I know there is a slight track width difference but the basic assumption stays the same). Ever notice that you ALWAYS hydroplane in the front and rarely, if ever, in the rear. Matching tires are irrelevant in this scenario. What is important is that you have sufficient tread depth to evacuate the water. Since the front tires do most of the work moving water, the depth of tread and design of the tire is more important on the front.

I bought a '91 Mustang GT that had mismatched front and rear tires. The front had plain performance M&S GoodYear tires and the rear had F1 High performance GoodYear tires. What I have found is that the less performance oriented tires on the front help keep me out of trouble because they help maintain a little understeer during hard driving. They also do a good job of clearing water from the road. There is no way that 4 F1's could be driven in the rain. Obviously the benefit of the F1's in back is straight line traction.

Bottom line is that you need to know the limits of your car - regardless of what tire you use - and drive accordingly in every condition.

[Blackmobile]

IMO, tires with matching tread front to rear isn't going to be the determining factor in issues of car control.
Think about this - when driving in rain, the front tires do most of the work since the rear tires run in the 'parting of the sea' that the front tires performed just miliseconds before (yes I know there is a slight track width difference but the basic assumption stays the same). Ever notice that you ALWAYS hydroplane in the front and rarely, if ever, in the rear. Matching tires are irrelevant in this scenario. What is important is that you have sufficient tread depth to evacuate the water. Since the front tires do most of the work moving water, the depth of tread and design of the tire is more important on the front.

I bought a '91 Mustang GT that had mismatched front and rear tires. The front had plain performance M&S GoodYear tires and the rear had F1 High performance GoodYear tires. What I have found is that the less performance oriented tires on the front help keep me out of trouble because they help maintain a little understeer during hard driving. They also do a good job of clearing water from the road. There is no way that 4 F1's could be driven in the rain. Obviously the benefit of the F1's in back is straight line traction.

Bottom line is that you need to know the limits of your car - regardless of what tire you use - and drive accordingly in every condition.

^^^^^^I Totally agree^^^^^^^

[red]

IMO, tires with matching tread front to rear isn't going to be the determining factor in issues of car control.
Think about this - when driving in rain, the front tires do most of the work since the rear tires run in the 'parting of the sea' that the front tires performed just miliseconds before (yes I know there is a slight track width difference but the basic assumption stays the same). Ever notice that you ALWAYS hydroplane in the front and rarely, if ever, in the rear. Matching tires are irrelevant in this scenario. What is important is that you have sufficient tread depth to evacuate the water. Since the front tires do most of the work moving water, the depth of tread and design of the tire is more important on the front.
For the most part, I agree with you in the case you talk about. As I mentioned, if the fronts are doing a poor job of channeling the water (due to tread depth or design), then the rears play a more crucial role as they have more water in their tracks. However, you've only mentioned the case of driving in a straight line. What about when rounding a bend on the highway or taking a corner on the street? Your rear tires are no longer following the same paths as the fronts and are left to fend for themselves. In this case, the differences in channeling capabilities can be realized. One could evaluate the extremes to gain a better understanding: put well-treaded street tires on the fronts and equivalently-sized drag radials on the rears, or vice versa. What happens? Assuming similar water depth on all corners, the drag radial is more likely to hydroplane first in a turn as hydroplaning is a function of tread depth, design, and width (as well as vehicle dynamics). If the tread depth and designs were matched and well-suited for channeling water, there would be fewer factors leading to either the front or rears hydroplaning early and therefore more resistance to hydroplaning, i.e., the vehicle on the whole will hydroplane at a higher rate of travel.

Bottom line is that you need to know the limits of your car - regardless of what tire you use - and drive accordingly in every condition.
I agree with this. However, there is a reason that manufacturers bias toward understeer; that being most drivers are not experienced with car control once the tires have lost traction. Understeer is a way to help protect the driver from entering a spin-out, from which an average individual will not know how to recover. Similarly, matched tread depths and designs decrease the probability of hydroplaning, hence the recommendation.

[Ozz]

Something else I didn't mention is tread width... the MM's tread width is different front to rear. This effects wet/dry traction as well. What about the fact that the rear tires wear at the center and the front's tend to wear at the inside edge. This all effects traction since water is evacuated differently.

The fact that the OEM would put different width tires front and rear tells me that these factors are not a critical concern though.

I really think that if you use your head and don't put radically different performance types front to rear that you'll be just fine. As stated before, I am quite happy with the combo on my Mustang (radical tires on rear, less radical on front).