Is this safe to drive?

[Eric-Blk2004]

Hey guys,

My car has kook headers and its used - bought it from a dealer. So today, I get the car back from the dealer and it feels different. I believe the car had a tune before going to the dealer, because now the car seems sluggish and has no pick up what so ever.

The dealer said they re flashed the ECU in an attempt to get the car to pass state inspections. They did this because I had a lazy o2 sensor that they changed out - but the car still needed to be driven 150 miles to pass inspection. I am not going to go to the dealer and demand a new tune since I pretty sure modifications to a car ECU is frowned upon and risk them returning the car back to factory spec - ie no exhaust etc etc which would put me no where but behind.

My question is - how long can I drive it before I get a tune? I would only drive it locally, to my shop and back home. I would never go past 3k in rpms for any reason let alone 40mph.

I was reading posts that the cars with headers run lean and motors can pop due to these changes in air flow and air fuel mixture. I think I should be ok, just wondering what the general populus thinks.

I will be getting a tune and 4.10s within a week or so - any recommendations?

[KillJoy]

Reload your Tune?

KillJoy

[bob6364]

That lazy o2 sensor was prolly due to a tune ,I believe some o2 sensors are shut off for better performance.If they flashed your ecm then its all over you now need to get a tuner, do it soon.Untill then stay off the Go pedal...

[sd8683]

Its amazing what a tune can do, before my tune my tranny was slipping hard going into 2nd gear, it cleared it right up, so Eric wait and see what the tune does before you do anything drastic, hang in there brother

[Eric-Blk2004]

Killjoy - I do not have the tuner software. I am willing to bet the previous owner sold it seperately.

Sean - Yea I hear ya. I am going to call DR in the morning and figure it all out.

Bob - Honda fit is go!

[Raudermaster]

Man ain't that a b!tch. I'd be pissed. But yea, go back to them and demand another tune and they'll be like, "WTF are you talking about?"

[FordNut]

It's a shame that a clueless dealer got ahold of a car that had obviously been properly modded and setup, then they screwed it all up.

[Eric-Blk2004]

Yep - I am so pissed but what can you do? Risk you take when you buy a modded car from a dealer.

I am still on the fence when it comes to what gears I have. I really wish there was a way of knowing for sure. The drive shaft thing is what I tried and through that it appears to be 3.55.

So I guess its gears and a tune!

[Breadfan]

The thing is I don't know how much luck they'd have selling the handheld tuner if the tune was still on the PCM/ECU. Most tuners will VIN lock to the car while the tune is there, and backup the stock tune on the handheld.

It'd take some effort to unlock the handheld AND keep the performance tune on the car to make an extra buck selling that on the side while leaving the car properly tuned.

Did the dealer mention anything about an overlay chip? Maybe it had a burned overlay chip instead of a handheld and they removed it?

[sailsmen]

You can also tell which gears by RPMs at MPH in OD.

Do a search there is a chart.

When you figure out which gears you can purchase an Xcal and get a proper tune that can be fine tuned for shift points/idle via email from the tuner.

Some tuners charge every time they change a file and some do not.

[FordNut]

Did the dealer mention anything about an overlay chip? Maybe it had a burned overlay chip instead of a handheld and they removed it?

If they try this it blows both the chip and pcm. New pcm time!

[magindat]

You can also tell which gears by RPMs at MPH in OD.

Do a search there is a chart.

When you figure out which gears you can purchase an Xcal and get a proper tune that can be fine tuned for shift points/idle via email from the tuner.

Some tuners charge every time they change a file and some do not.

http://www.magindat.net/ssm/info/4r70wratios.xls

need Excel

[Eric-Blk2004]

Cool thanks guys!

I am not sure if there was chip - if the PCM is broken wouldnt the car not start?

Magin - how do I read this? Is it a forumla where I enter the speed? I am a tad slow in the mornings

[Paul T. Casey]

Good, I'm glad the got your tune, (well not really). Now get your butt over the Dez Racing or New England Dyno and get a custom tune. Also, don't worry about "popping" your motor. The stock tune will assure there's plenty of fuel in it. Don't expect to set any gas mileage records though.

[Breadfan]

If it now has a stock tune on it you probably don't have gears, I think you'd notice that pretty quick as the speedometer would be off by quite a bit.

[BigCars4Ever]

If they try this it blows both the chip and pcm. New pcm time!
I didn't think you could run an overlay chip on an 04?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Oh that totally blows that your tune just went down the tubes....

[Eric-Blk2004]

Why did you with 3.73's instead of 4.10s Vic?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

Long story--
1. stock 3.55 gears were slightly noisy
2. took car to dealer, told them to replace gears under warranty or do nothing, but under no circumstance to adjust depth/lash on the orig gears
3. dealer adjusts lash and depth on gears, making them 1000 times more noisy, and charges me for it because warranty didn't cover it
4. I get pissed off and buy the OTC/Rotunda pinion depth gage kit
5. I set up new OE 3.55 gears and they are quiter but not silent
6. I call Dearborn gear plant and speak to guys who make the gears and set them up. They said most gear sets they send out the door will make some noise and that I can't do anything about it.
7. I get a free set of Ford Racing 3.73 gears from a vendor who screwed up and sent me the wrong ratio, and then wanted to make right w/ me
8. I Set up the 3.73s and they are pretty quiet but still not 100% silent. Pattern looks excellent and the OTC/Rotunda tool says the depth is right

I have also had a custom steel shaft built to try to reduce the noise being transmitted from the driveline. Made no difference, just added 45 pounds to the car. Now a permanent doorstop in the garage

OTHER FACTORS: I consider the rpm's this car turns w/ 4.10s unacceptable considering its a 4 door luxo barge. I have other cars for tearing around with on weekends, but this car is the most sedate one I drive, so I did not want to run the rpms up too high just to get another tenth in the 1/4 mile. 3.90s are the perfect ratio for this car, and they will be my next upgrade, since I have done gears like 9 hundred times and I'm getting a lot of practice.

[Eric-Blk2004]

Interesting input Vic. I was wondering why people were taking this family sedan car into the next level. Sure it has a cobra motor - but it needs one to move its heavy butt down the road! I am not sure how the CV's with their 220 hp even move!

I wonder how hard it is to find 3.90's and a tune for them - since most people run 4.10s

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I have an old SCT tuner so I can change the gear ratio to anything I want, I don't need a re tune. The CV sports are pretty slow, I test drove one. I don't know how people are satisfied w/ them either but that's not my deal. 3.90s are only as far away as a catalog. Motive makes them.

[magindat]

Cool thanks guys!

I am not sure if there was chip - if the PCM is broken wouldnt the car not start?

Magin - how do I read this? Is it a forumla where I enter the speed? I am a tad slow in the mornings

Input your own numbers where it's blue.

[cyclopsram]

you let some egghead bozo drive it 150 miles to pass inspection !!! He was wide open all the way trying to clean out the passages...always reset your trip meter and inform the dealer that the car is not to leave the lot without you in it and get it written on the service order...Did your gas gauge reflect the half tank burned?

[Eric-Blk2004]

Its my friend of 14 years - I dont think he would beat on the car.

[burt ragio]

So I have a DR tune on my SCT x-cal2 for premium fuel & 4:10 gears. Great tune it corrected my spedo changed shift points ect. When I install my long tube headers only "engine" bolt on mod into stock exhaust system mufflers to tips the car will run lean. Do I just ask Dennis to E mail me another tune to correct forseen lean problem ? Will this tune be genric but safe ? As many headers size & length are different collector cats mufflers not to mention others added air intakes larger throttle bodys & PH spacers ect. or do I get a dyno tune ? If so what is the going rate or is it a flat fee ? What is the best way to turn my tune ?

[Paul T. Casey]

So I have a DR tune on my SCT x-cal2 for premium fuel & 4:10 gears. Great tune it corrected my spedo changed shift points ect. When I install my long tube headers only "engine" bolt on mod into stock exhaust system mufflers to tips the car will run lean. Do I just ask Dennis to E mail me another tune to correct forseen lean problem ? Will this tune be genric but safe ? As many headers size & length are different collector cats mufflers not to mention others added air intakes larger throttle bodys & PH spacers ect. or do I get a dyno tune ? If so what is the going rate or is it a flat fee ? What is the best way to turn my tune ?

While most of the hand-held tuner dealers can get you good results, the BEST way is a good dyno tune. In your area, Dez racing in Seekonk, or Dyno Performance in Concord NH. Mike is the man at Dez, probably one of the best reputations for Modular tuning in the country. Pete at DP is breathing down his neck. As with anything, you'll get what you pay for. Figure around $100 an hour (more or less). Figure 2 to 3 hours.

[Breadfan]

You can probably get a safe mail-order tune with the headers, but by safe it will probably add more fuel and pull some timing. This means you will not maximize the power potential of the headers.

Best way to maximize and stay safe is to get a dyno tune that way the tune is very specific to how your car and motor is reacting to it's environment and mods.

[Paul T. Casey]

You can probably get a safe mail-order tune with the headers, but by safe it will probably add more fuel and pull some timing. This means you will not maximize the power potential of the headers.

Best way to maximize and stay safe is to get a dyno tune that way the tune is very specific to how your car and motor is reacting to it's environment and mods.

Sometimes I think we are just wasting bandwidth trying to explain that. Maybe some good old fashioned heads up racing would school these people. N/A stock geared with/without dyno tune, N/A 4.10 gear with/without, etc. Put up enough money to hurt a little.

[burt ragio]

Paul-When I install my headers I will follow your advice and get a dyno at Dez racing. My car is my daily driver at times over 100 miles a day a great tune is essencial for the longevity & performance. In one of your earlyer posts you also mentioned to get the best out of openning things up go with air intake 90mm TB & PH spacer. If I did just one of the three listed what one would be of most benifit and why? Would it make much differance if I did one of those changes after a dyno tune ? I'am also thinking of a torque converter by BC with a stall of 3000. At that time will I need another dyno tune.

[Aren Jay]

Hey guys,

The dealer said they re flashed the ECU in an attempt to get the car to pass state inspections.

They did this because I had a lazy o2 sensor that they changed out - but the car still needed to be driven 150 miles to pass inspection. I am not going to go to the dealer and demand a new tune since I pretty sure modifications to a car ECU is frowned upon and risk them returning the car back to factory spec - ie no exhaust etc etc which would put me no where but behind.

My question is - how long can I drive it before I get a tune? I would only drive it locally, to my shop and back home. I would never go past 3k in rpms for any reason let alone 40mph.

I was reading posts that the cars with headers run lean and motors can pop due to these changes in air flow and air fuel mixture. I think I should be ok, just wondering what the general populus thinks.

I will be getting a tune and 4.10s within a week or so - any recommendations?


What do you mean by this? Highlighted in red portion?