Longer Crank?

[Shora]

My Marauder used to start after 1-1.5 seconds of turning the key. For the last week or so, it seems like it takes double that time (3-4 seconds).

The battery is still original OEM and the Marauder is a 2002 build with 53K miles. My Scan Guage2 always reads the Volts between 13.7-14.1.

I hear a slight squeal with the engine running and cannot tell if it's a pulley/ tensioner/ or belt so I called Ray Sr. yesterday and ordered the following:

-Smooth Idler Pulley (YS245) (XR3Z8678BA)
-Grooved Idler Pulley (YS249) (YW7Z8678AA)
-Serp. Belt
-Belt tensioner

Could the longer cranking time be due to the pulleys/ belt, battery alternator, or is it more likely a result of the starter/ spark plugs/ coils?

I am still under extended warranty but hope to tackle this down with your help.

Thanks guys.

[RF Overlord]

If the battery was getting weak, your cranking speed would be slower. If your car cranks at the same speed, but cranks longer before catching, that has nothing to do with any of the items you mentioned.

Does the car sit for long periods between starts? Try turning the key to "on" and leaving it there for a couple of seconds before turning it to "crank" and see it that helps. I always do that and both my cars start quickly.

[Zack]

The obvious questions:
How many miles
Fuel filter
Condensation in the coil packs from a leaky coil cover seal
Dirty MAF
Lazy IAC
etc...

[Shora]

If the battery was getting weak, your cranking speed would be slower.
If your car cranks at the same speed, but cranks longer before catching, that has nothing to do with any of the items you mentioned.-This is what is happening.

Does the car sit for long periods between starts?-Nope

Try turning the key to "on" and leaving it there for a couple of seconds before turning it to "crank" and see it that helps. I always do that and both my cars start quickly.-Have always done that with all my cars.

Anything else you think I should try?

[Shora]

The obvious questions:
How many miles-53K
Fuel filter-I personally change it every spring. Just changed it in March. However, for the first time, I put a Napa Gold fuel filter.
Condensation in the coil packs from a leaky coil cover seal-I don't have the confidence to check this.
Dirty MAF-I clean it every spring with MAF cleaner. Just cleaned it in March while changing the Air filter.
Lazy IAC-I have no clue how to check this.
etc...


Anything else (easy) I should check? I don't have your know-how and I know the dealer will say that everything appears normal. I, however, notice the change.

[KillJoy]

Check Spark Plugs?

:dunno:

KillJoy

[Raudermaster]

I agree with Zack and Steve, check spark plugs/coil packs.

[RoyLPita]

When was the last time the fuel filter was changed?

[Zack]

The FRPS can also cause extended cranking

[finster101]

Do you still have the factory fuel pump? Sometimes th e "check valve" can become weak and allow fuel pressure to bleed off. If you have access to a guage hook it up and see how long it holds pressure once you shut the car off. If possible leave it on overnight and see how quickly you get fuel pressure on your first start. May not be the problem, but it is fairly common.

[carfixer]

What fin said ^.
Try cycling the key on and off 3 times before starting. This will prime the fuel system before starting. If it starts right away, it means your check valve is faulty allowing the fuel pressure to bleed off. Check valve only comes from Ford with a new fuel pump.

[Shora]

When was the last time the fuel filter was changed?

I change it every spring. It's been changed 5 times already and I'm at 53K miles.

Every Spring, regardless of miles, I also change the:

Engine Coolant
Thermostat
Air Filter
Clean the MAF
As much of the power steering fluid that I can suck out with a baster
and as of this Spring I added Brake Bleeding to the list.

[Shora]

Do you still have the factory fuel pump? Sometimes th e "check valve" can become weak and allow fuel pressure to bleed off. If you have access to a guage hook it up and see how long it holds pressure once you shut the car off. If possible leave it on overnight and see how quickly you get fuel pressure on your first start. May not be the problem, but it is fairly common.

I have no such guage. Good info though. Thanks.


What fin said ^.
Try cycling the key on and off 3 times before starting. This will prime the fuel system before starting. If it starts right away, it means your check valve is faulty allowing the fuel pressure to bleed off. Check valve only comes from Ford with a new fuel pump.

I always leave the key in the "on" position for a few seconds before turning the key to "run". I will try cycling it 3-4 times to see if it helps.

The only problem is that it still only takes 3-4 seconds and I know that the dealer is just going to say that everything is normal.

[Shora]

The FRPS can also cause extended cranking

Ok, thanks. Can you please also tell me what FRPS stands for?

[Shora]

Well, I received the parts from Ray. I took off the belt and it seemed to be in good conditions. Before I removed any pulleys ts-pa suggested that I manually turn them to see if any make a sound. Sure enough, only the Alternator makes noise.

I guess I'll take it to the dealer. Too bad that they are probably going to replace it with one that does not have the clutch pulley.

Can anybody tell me the difference between my stock belt and the new one I recieved?

-stock belt part number: 3w33-8620-AB
-new belt part number: 3w3z-8620-AA

[RoyLPita]

Well, I received the parts from Ray. I took off the belt and it seemed to be in good conditions. Before I removed any pulleys ts-pa suggested that I manually turn them to see if any make a sound. Sure enough, only the Alternator makes noise.

I guess I'll take it to the dealer. Too bad that they are probably going to replace it with one that does not have the clutch pulley.

Can anybody tell me the difference between my stock belt and the new one I recieved?

-stock belt part number: 3w33-8620-AB
-new belt part number: 3w3z-8620-AA

The part number for the belt is correct. The one above it is an engineering number. The Motorcraft part number is: JK6932AA

BTW, Nowadays the replacement alternators have the clutch pulley installed.

[Shora]

The part number for the belt is correct. The one above it is an engineering number. The Motorcraft part number is: JK6932AA

BTW, Nowadays the replacement alternators have the clutch pulley installed.

Thanks for the belt info. Also, how can I confirm that the replacement has the clutch pulley? Is there a part numer for an alternator with the pulley?

[RoyLPita]

Thanks for the belt info. Also, how can I confirm that the replacement has the clutch pulley? Is there a part numer for an alternator with the pulley?

I believe there is because Ghost03 bought one that had the clutch pulley.

[thePunisher]

Do you still have the factory fuel pump? Sometimes th e "check valve" can become weak and allow fuel pressure to bleed off. If you have access to a guage hook it up and see how long it holds pressure once you shut the car off. If possible leave it on overnight and see how quickly you get fuel pressure on your first start. May not be the problem, but it is fairly common.

exactly. i think this is the problem also. a key off pressure leak down. it will cause a hard start or long crank. if you turn the key on a few times before start it may start quicker bacuse youve introduced pressure back into the rail.

[Paul]

Ok, thanks. Can you please also tell me what FRPS stands for?

Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor/Sender

[Shora]

Two weeks ago the dealer confirmed that the noise is from the Alternator and one of the pulleys.

Having not heard from them I called to ask if the parts came in and was told that they didn't because the alternator for our Marauder (with the clutch pulley) is on "National Backorder" and that they will only be able to get it if another dealer agrees to sell it to them.

Can anyone confirm if this is true or not. How about finding out where this dealer can get me the right parts?

Thanks guys.

[thePunisher]

this very well may be true....we have been having a very tough time getting parts thru ford as of late.....everything seems to be on backorder.....ford has changed alot of their parts vendors. dumped some and not yet replaced them. this is causing parts issues. as a technician this is very frustrating!

if you know the ford part # i can put it on a national locator to see who has it.....

[Shora]

this very well may be true....we have been having a very tough time getting parts thru ford as of late.....everything seems to be on backorder.....ford has changed alot of their parts vendors. dumped some and not yet replaced them. this is causing parts issues. as a technician this is very frustrating!

if you know the ford part # i can put it on a national locator to see who has it.....


Thanks for your help.

The part number thanks to RoyalPITA:

Alternator 3W3Z-10346-AARM

[thePunisher]

wilcox lima, in lima, OH has 2 in stock and sun state ford in orlando, FL has 1 in stock..you can google them or i can give you the phone #s if youd like......see shora im not such a bad guy. ;)

[magindat]

Nobody looking at the battery? Common!

53K miles original battery? Even a late 04 would be 3+ years old now. CCA's diminish as the battery ages. If there's an alt problem it will simply compound the aging damage inside the cells.

If the starter draws the same amperage from an aging battery the voltage will drop as the batter ages, thereby turning the starter slower, taking voltage away from the spark plugs and taking voltage from ALL of the sensors.

It a freakin 100 bucks to put an Interstate Megatron Plus 65 series in the car. The absolute best battery that fits in the hole is only 100 bucks!! A stock Motorcraft is $80!!!

Sometimes it's the simple and obvious solution...

It's about time to replace it anyways.

[Shora]

wilcox lima, in lima, OH has 2 in stock and sun state ford in orlando, FL has 1 in stock..you can google them or i can give you the phone #s if youd like......see shora im not such a bad guy. ;)

Bad guy? No sir.

In Politics we don't see eye to eye but you still took your time and helped me out so that shows character.

Thanks the help.:beer:

[thePunisher]

Bad guy? No sir.

In Politics we don't see eye to eye but you still took your time and helped me out so that shows character.

Thanks the help.:beer:

no problem......wanna buy a s/c'd marauder? ;):D

[Shora]

Nobody looking at the battery? Common!

53K miles original battery? Even a late 04 would be 3+ years old now. CCA's diminish as the battery ages. If there's an alt problem it will simply compound the aging damage inside the cells.

If the starter draws the same amperage from an aging battery the voltage will drop as the batter ages, thereby turning the starter slower, taking voltage away from the spark plugs and taking voltage from ALL of the sensors.

It a freakin 100 bucks to put an Interstate Megatron Plus 65 series in the car. The absolute best battery that fits in the hole is only 100 bucks!! A stock Motorcraft is $80!!!

Sometimes it's the simple and obvious solution...

It's about time to replace it anyways.

Guess what?

My Marauder is a 2002 build so the battery is old!

However, it's still good imho. The alternator isn't totally out yet but it squeels like mad.

The dealer is going to replace the Alt and one of the pulleys.

I bought the pulleys (grooved and smooth), belt, and tensioner from Ray Sr. and will replace the rest of the items that the dealer isn't replacing. That way they will all be new.

Also, this Motorcraft battery is the bomb. Trust me, it's still holding it's own and when it comes time to replace it, the decision will be both easy and hard. The easy part will be deciding on a brand...Motorcraft (why change when my car started every time for almost 6 yrs.).
The hard part will be deciding whether I'm going to stick to the OEM specs or one with a higher number of CCAs.

[Paul]

exactly. i think this is the problem also. a key off pressure leak down. it will cause a hard start or long crank. if you turn the key on a few times before start it may start quicker bacuse youve introduced pressure back into the rail.


I had never really thought much about it until this thread was started, but once I became aware, it seemed my car also was cranking longer than it should. I purchased car with 69k, now have 88k. Also, last month or so ago when I had the passenger valve cover off, I had to disconnect the fuel line. When I went to relieve pressure before disconnecting, it had none (after sitting overnight). My supercharger kit included the gt-40 fuel pump. Since I put that in last weekend, the crank time is noticeably shorter. FWIW. YMMV.