confused about lsd and posi

[the fat bastid]

my previous understanding:
a) limited slip diff: allowed the rear wheels to spin indenpently and shifted power. almost like a mechanical traction control...sorta
b) posi: what the bowtie world called an lsd.

after talking to a friend he says.
a) lsd: one wheel wonder. one wheel gets all the juice always. ever see a car spin in the snow or a one wheel burn out? thats it.
b)posi: both tires always got at the same rate. hear the chirpping of the outter wheel skipping in a corner? thats it.
both suck. you want a locking diff.

i always told people the mm had a lsd...proudly too. but now i'm just confused to all hell thanks to the trak-loc thing we have or whatever the hell its called. ...you know i think i got my wrong info from howstuffworks.com... how dare they hand out wrong free info! :)

[RF Overlord]

fat:

Traction-Lok, LSD (limited slip differential), and posi (positraction) are all the same thing...

You are correct: Traction-Lok and Posi are Ford and Chevy's own versions of the generic term LSD...your friend is wrong...

Maybe Charlie (metroplex) can give us a more detailed explanation?

Note: edited to correct nomenclature

[Fast4Door]

Your previous understanding was correct.

"Posi" goes by a handful of different names, depending on the mechanism "locks" both axle shafts together. The term "limited slip" usually refers to a clutc-type posi unit. There are clutch plates packed between the a axles and the pinion carrier. Since you want some slip to occur for things like cornering, this arangement allows a "limited" amount of slippage.

EDIT: My response was a touch late, I see...

[the fat bastid]

YES! YES!!!!! i'm the smartest man in the entire world!!!!! muhawhahaha!!!


(thanks guys for the quick and correct answer, and mad props to howstuffworks. :))

[tvdone]

Recently I was parked and there was about 12 inches of ice along the curb. When I began to pull away, the rear inside wheel (passenger side) spun and spun and spun. I was waiting for the rear left wheel to kick in but it never did. Is this normal? Do I need to get to a certain rpm before it kicks in? Or maybe something is wrong. Any thoughts???
Thanks,
John T.

[DEFYANT]

Posi means Posi-Traction. And that means squat! There is no such thing as "posi".

[Krytin]

Recently I was parked and there was about 12 inches of ice along the curb. When I began to pull away, the rear inside wheel (passenger side) spun and spun and spun. I was waiting for the rear left wheel to kick in but it never did. Is this normal? Do I need to get to a certain rpm before it kicks in? Or maybe something is wrong. Any thoughts???
Thanks,
John T.
That's not normal! If your MM is "one wheeling" somethings wrong!

[MM2004]

So before I try and show off to the boys, when T/C is of, will my MM smoke em both or only one? :confused:

[jstevens]

okay, so lsc means a little give is given when going around corners and such.

So, when I shut off my traction control, I'm in full posi-traction mode, right?

[jgc61sr2002]

Recently I was parked and there was about 12 inches of ice along the curb. When I began to pull away, the rear inside wheel (passenger side) spun and spun and spun. I was waiting for the rear left wheel to kick in but it never did. Is this normal? Do I need to get to a certain rpm before it kicks in? Or maybe something is wrong. Any thoughts???
Thanks,
John T.


Yes I concur that is normal. The passenger side wheel spun freely on the icy surface and the T/L thought your Marauder was under way. The spinning tire requires a bit more resistance to get the other wheel to lock. In the old days the owners manual stated " to apply the parking brake slightly on icy pavement to get the T/L to apply power to the opposite wheel".

[Haggis]

So before I try and show off to the boys, when T/C is of, will my MM smoke em both or only one? :confused:


Both wheels, trust me. :)

[CRUZTAKER]

Both wheels, trust me. :)
*Correct.

*Unless you have beat on the car bad enough to burn up the OEM LSD. The one in our cars is ok...just ok...., but if you like to romp and spin alot, there is the potential for damage. Particularly on unevenly wet surfaces, such as a track situation....:rolleyes:

I toasted mine at or about 18k, and the first indication is the occational 'one wheel only' spin, that eventually degrades to constant 'one wheel only' spin. The LSD is shot.

Simple fix, buy an Eaton, or Auburn High Performance LSD. All of about $250 in parts.;)

[LimoMerc]

[QUOTE]Ohhhhhhhhh Yeah!!!!!
even in stock form it will burn the tires right off. just hold your left foot on the brake pedal and your right on the gas and be a little gentle at first but as the RPM's rise so does the smoke. Have fun and I don't think you'll hurt anything if you do this once and a while.

[metroplex]

Limited Slip Differentials were designed to give positive axle lockup when you needed it, and to allow one wheel to spin faster than the other in turns to allow the vehicle to turn!

IIRC, Visteon currently produces the Traction-Lok differentials in many of the Ford vehicles, including the ones that use Dana rear ends (i.e. late model E-250 uses a 9.75" Dana-60 rear).

There are different types of limited slip differentials:
clutch based (Visteon Traction-Lok, Posi Traction, Auburn, Eaton)
Torque Sensing mechanical (Gleason/Zexel/Toyoda Torsen, Detroit TrueTrac)

The TORque SENsing differential is the type used on the AM General HMMWV differentials. They essentially operate as OPEN differentials until you apply torque to the rear axles. You can feel extreme understeer if you enter a curve hot on the throttle, and as soon as you let off, the car turns easier. The same thing happens on slippery surfaces when you try to enter a curve/turn hot without slowing down first: the axles tend to lockup and your car moves straight even though your front wheels are completely turn. The Auburn and Detroit Locker owners will tell you all about it in the rain/snow/ice.

The clutch based LSDs actually provide a tad more axle lockup for the drag strip but they tend to keep the axles locked more than the Torsens, which makes the Torsens more favorable for auto-crossing and similar road racing.

There's a T-2R Torsen that uses clutch/steel packs to adjust the torque bias to give you the positive axle lockup of a clutch LSD with the abilities of a Torsen differential.

Hack Goby has a video (that I haven't seen yet, but he says its on CD) of me racing with one of the Trilogy marauders a few years back. IIRC, I was burning out my SP Sport 5000s and I verified tire smoke in both sideview mirrors - so I know my Detroit TrueTrac was working properly! :bandit:

Marauders and Mustangs come with Traction-Lok differentials. Depending on how you drive, they may need to be rebuilt in 10k miles or 100k miles. They're great units and the worst you can do is burn out the clutches, resulting in normal operation as an open differential.

The Crown Vics do NOT have LSD's at all, only the CVPIs had them as $87 options. :help: Ford should have simply increased the price slightly and included them on ALL Panthers.

I ordered my dad's 2003 E-250 with Traction-Lok and 3.73s for a total addition of $220. WELL WORTH IT IMHO because a NEW Dana-60 Traction-Lok differential will run me at least that much money. I'd have to get new carrier bearings ($30) and then spend a few hours under a brand new van to install it. If I were to buy a new Panther, I'd gladly pay an extra $100-$200 over the sticker price for a factory installed limited slip differential.

I installed the TrueTrac myself in my 2000 Vic, and it cost me about $360 in parts (free labor: I did this outside my garage in January, when it was 20*F in North NJ - I couldn't fit me under the rear of the car with the garage closed).

[danbike]

Perhaps you should do some research on Timothy Leary.

[danbike]

<CENTER>http://www.xs4all.nl/~4david/pics/zil12e1.gifLSDhttp://www.xs4all.nl/~4david/pics/zil12e2.gif

</CENTER>Generic name for the hallucinogen lysergic acid diethylamide-25. Discovered by Dr. Albert Hofmann in 1938, LSD is one of the most potent mind-altering chemicals known. A white, odorless powder usually taken orally, its effects are highly variable and begin within one hour and generally last 8-12 hours, gradually tapering off. It has been used experimentally in the treatment of alcoholics and psychiatric patients. (Where it showed some success.) It significantly alters perception, mood, and psychological processes, and can impair motor coordination and skills.



During the 1950s and early 1960s, LSD experimentation was legally conducted by psychiatrists and others in the health and mental health professions. Sometimes dramatic, unpleasant psychological reactions occur, including panic, great confusion, and anxiety. Strongly affected by set and setting. (http://www.xs4all.nl/~4david/firsthis.html#setting)
Slang names

Acid, sugar.
Drug Slang Terms (NB: many of these refer to the carrier, ie, "Blotter" or "Sugar Cubes". Often the local names will refer to patterns printed on the blotter, eg, "Blue unicorn".):
Acid, 'Cid, Sid, Bart Simpsons, Barrels, Tabs, Blotter, Heavenly blue, "L", Liquid, Liquid A, Lucy in the sky with diamonds, Micro dots, Mind detergent, Orange cubes, Orange micro, Owsley, Hits, Paper acid, Sacrament, Sandoz, Sugar, Sugar lumps, Sunshine, Tabs, Ticket, Twenty-five, Wedding bells, Windowpane, etc.


Addiction potential:

Zero physical addiction potential. Not something that makes you want to do it again immediately.
Essentially zero psychological addiction potential.



Rarely people use it to escape in a negative way or as part of "poly drug abuse" behavior or pattern of behavior. Usually in this case other drugs are causing more harm, and the fundamental problem is a personal difficulty; the escapism/distraction is a symptom. Bad trips:

The most common adverse reaction is a temporary (less than 24 hours) episode of panic --the "bad trip". Symptoms include frightening illusions/ hallucinations (usually visual and/or auditory); overwhelming anxiety to the point of panic; aggression with possible violent acting-out behavior; depression with suicidal ideations, gestures, or attempts; confusion; and fearfulness to the point of paranoid delusions.



A person on LSD who becomes depressed, agitated, or confused may experience these feelings in an overwhelming manner that grows on itself. The best solution is to remove disturbing influences, get to a safe, comforting environment, and reassure the tripper that things are alright. It may comfort those who fear that they are losing their minds to be reminded that it will end in several hours.

Authorities are fond of administering injections of anti-psychotic drugs. Recovery in the presence of authorities, in hospitals or police stations, is not pleasant. Sedatives or tranquilizers such as Valium may help reduce panic and anxiety, but the best solution is calm talking.

Remember that odd bodily sensations are normal and not harmful. "The distinction between psycholytic and psychedelic doses of LSD is used in many scientific publications but seems to be ignored by popularizers who either preach the "LSD utopia" or warn of the "decline of the West."
A psycholitic dose, generally 75 or 100 - or at most 200 - micrograms, causes a rush of thoughts, a lot of free association, some visualization (hallucination) and abreaction (memories so vivid that one seems to relive the experience).
A psychedelic dose, around 500 micrograms, produces total but temporary breakdown of usual ways of perceiving self and world and (usually) some form of "peak experience" or mystic transcendence of ego. "Bad trips" usually occur only on psychedelic doses."

Reactions that are prolonged (days to months) and/or require hospitalization are often referred to as "LSD psychosis," and include a heterogeneous population and group of symptoms. Although there are no hard and fast rules, some trends have been noted in these patients. There is a tendency for people with poorer pre morbid adjustment, a history of psychiatric illness and/or treatment, a greater number of exposure to psychedelic drugs (and correlatively, a great average total cumulative dosage taken over time), drug-taking in an unsupervised setting, a history of poly drug abuse, and self-therapeutic and/or peer-pressure-submission motive for drug use, to suffer these consequences. myths

1. LSD does not form "crystals" that reside in the body to be "dislodged" later, causing flashbacks.

LSD is a crystalline solid (though it is unlikely that one would ever have enough to be visible to the naked eye) but it is easily water soluble, thus cannot form bodily deposits. Furthermore, it is metabolized and excreted in hours. The bogus "loosened crystal" description in not necessary to explain flashbacks, which are psychological phenomena (see FLASHBACKS).



2. LSD does not cause chromosome damage.

In Science 30 April 1972, Volume 172 Number 3982 p. 431-440 there was an article by Norman I. Dishotsky, William D. Loughman, Robert E. Mogar and Wendell R. Lipscomb titled "LSD and Genetic Damage - Is LSD chromosome damaging, carcinogenic, mutagenic, or teratogenic?". They reviewed 68 studies and case reports published 1967-1972, concluding "From our own work and from a review of literature, we believe that pure LSD ingested in moderate doses does not damage chromosomes in vivo, does not cause detectable genetic damage, and is not a teratogen or carcinogen in man."

Well, there's the study by Sidney Cohen which was cited here recently, Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, 130, 1960. The following is from Jay Stevens' Storming Heaven: "Cohen surveyed a sample of five thousand individuals who had taken LSD twenty-five thousand times. He found and average of 1.8 psychotic episodes per thousand ingestions, 1.2 attempted suicides, and 0.4 completed suicides. 'Considering the enormous scope of the psychic responses it induces,' he concluded, 'LSD is an astonishingly safe drug.'" Dangers

Purely psychological hazards, not harmful to body. May release latent psychosis or exacerbate depression, leading to irrational behavior. There is also a danger of foolish or incautious behavior, e.g, misjudging distances or thinking one can fly. Physical overdose is not a hazard, though one may easily ingest more than one may be able to handle psychologically.

[danbike]

Flashbacks

Quoted without permission from 'Licit and Illicit Drugs,' written by Edward M. Brecher and the editors of Consumer Reports. ISBN: 0-316-15340-0



<TT>A simple explanation of LSD flashbacks, and of their changed character after 1967, is available. According to this theory, almost everybody suffers flashbacks with or without LSD. Any intense emotional experience--the death of a loved one, the moment of discovery that one is in love, the moment of an automobile smashup or of a narrow escape from a smashup--may subsequently and unexpectedly return vividly to consciousness weeks or months later. Since the LSD trip is often an intense emotional experience, it is hardly surprising that it may similarly "flash back." </TT>A typical minor and pleasant flashback is the following:

<TT>... Frequently afterward there is a momentary "opening" ("flash" would be too spastic a word) when for maybe a couple of seconds an area one is looking at casually, and indeed unthinkingly, suddenly takes on the intense vividness, composition, and significance of things seen while in the psychedelic condition. This "scene" is nearly always a small field of vision -- sometimes a patch of grass, a spray of twigs, even a piece of newspaper in the street or the remains of a meal on a plate </TT>
(Cohen 1970[1965], pp. 114-115)

Here are two more troublesome examples:

<TT>For about a week I couldn't walk through the lobby of A-entry at the dorm without getting really scared, because of the goblin I saw there when I was tripping. </TT>
(Pope 1971, p. 93)



<TT>A man in his late twenties came to the admitting office in a state of panic. Although he had not taken any drug in approximately 2 moths he was beginning to re-experience some of the illusory phenomena, perceptual distortions, and the feeling of union with the things around him that had previously occurred only under the influence of LSD. In addition, his wife had told him that he was beginning to "talk crazy," and he had become frightened ... He was concerned lest LSD have some permanent effect on him. He wished reassurance so that he could take it again. His symptoms have subsided but tend to reappear in anxiety-provoking situations.</TT>
(Frosch et al. 1965, p. 1237)

Flashbacks are most likely to occur under emotional stress or at a time of altered ego functioning; they are often induced by conditions like fatigue, drunkenness, marihuana intoxication, and even meditative states. Falling asleep is one of those times of consciousness change and diminished ego control; an increase in the hypnagogic imagery common at the edge of sleep often follows psychedelic drug use and can be regarded as a kind of flashback.

Dreams too may take on the vividness, intensity, and perceptual peculiarities of drug trips; this spontaneous recurrence of psychedelic experience in sleep (often very pleasant) has been called the high dream (Tart 1972). Marihuana smoking is probably the most common single source of flashbacks. Many people become more sensitive to the psychedelic qualities of marihuana after using more powerful drugs, and some have flashbacks only when smoking marihuana (Weil 1970). In one study frequency of marihuana use was found to be the only factor related to drugs that was correlated with number of psychedelic flashbacks (Stanton et al. 1976).

How common flashbacks are said to be depends on how they are defined. By the broad definition we have been using, they occur very often; probably a quarter or more of all psychedelic drug users have experienced them. A questionnaire survey of 2,256 soldiers (Stanton and Bardoni 1972), leaving the definition to the respondents, revealed that 23 percent of the men who used LSD had flashbacks. In a 1972 survey of 235 LSD users, Murray P. Naditch and Sheridan Fenwick found that 28 percent had flashbacks. Eleven percent of this group (seven men in all) called them very frightening, 32 percent called them somewhat frightening, 36 percent called them pleasant, and 21 percent called them very pleasant. Sixty-four percent said that their flashbacks did not disrupt their lives in any way; 16 percent (4 percent of the whole LSD-using group) had sought psychiatric help for them (Naditch and Fenwick 1977). In a study of 247 subjects who had taken LSD in psychotherapy, William H. McGlothlin and David O. Arnold found 36 cases of flashbacks, only one of which was seriously disturbing (McGlothlin and Arnold 1971). McGlothlin, defining flashbacks narrowly for clinical purposes as "repeated intrusions of frightening images in spite of volitional efforts to avoid them" (McGlothlin 1974b, p. 291), estimates that 5 percent of habitual psychedelic users have experienced them.

Insomnia

Insomnia occurs frequently after the trip. A mild, over-the-counter sleeping aid can help, and these antihistamines do not produce adverse interactions. Also, some people like to consume a small amount of alcoholic beverage to "smooth the jitters". The usual precautions about sleeping aids if alcohol has been consumed apply of course.

Tolerance

Acquired rapidly, within 3 days. Tolerance dissipates equally rapidly, without withdrawal, craving, or symptoms of addiction. Cross-tolerance can and is developed between other indole hallucinogens, eg, DMT, LSD and Psilocybin.

Related compounds

Related compounds are the indole hallucinogens including DMT (dimethyl-tryptamine), DET (diethyl-), etc.; psilocybin; lysergic acid. DMT is very fast acting, lasting less than an hour. Psilocybin, found in hallucinogenic (aka magic or mexican) mushrooms, has effects similar to LSD but they work for approximately half the duration.



While LSD is semi-synthetic, DMT and psilocybin are found in nature. Drug testing

No risk. Its not looked for, hard to find, and transient.