The unofficial ULTIMATE Marauder brake pad thread . . .

[studio460]

I've been reading up on a lot of the brake-oriented posts here recently, and there seems to be at least two popular brands of pads various members are recommending as the "best" pads for our stock calipers. Many here are recommending the NAPA Ceramix pads. Others mentioned the Hawk HPS pads. If you were to choose only one parameter on which to rate these pads, i.e., "stopping power," which would win? Forget about brake dust or price (okay, maybe "squeaking" isn't great either). Which pads stop the car the best in our stock calipers, with the least amount of fade?

To make my information-culling a bit easier to review, I've quoted various members' brake-pad related posts below (stolen from other threads) . . .

Hope he doesn't mind me re-quoting him here, but Todd (TCE) had this to say . . .


While I don't do oem replacements I have a hard time suggesting any replacement other than Hawk HPS for normal day to day use . . .

Zack had a different opinion . . .


Ceramix pads from NAPA are the best IMHO

Member, "whd507," had an interesting, fact-filled post in another thread:


. . . I have the Baers with Autozone Duralast Gold pads (semi-met in front, ceramics in rear) your local store may have the new CMAX ceramic pads, they outperform the thermoquiets and the NAPA pads by a margin, and also come with hardware included. I just have the basic Golds, but I have no dust, and I sell the Baers to most of the local agencies near here. no complaints at all, 40 P71's runnings shifts 24/7 . . . most of the departments run the Performance Friction pads with the Baer rotors, don't know how they dust . . . now "panic stops" are only "stops."

Another, great post, from member, "Cobra25," which includes the NAPA Ceramix part numbers:


I use the Napa Pads too: Front part # CMX7834 & the rear part # CMX7835. Each set cost approx $80.00. Calfornia Highway Patrol, Huston Police Department, Los Angeles County Sheriff, Michigan State Police & San Francisco Police Like and use the Wagner Super Duty Semi metallic Pads.

Two posts for the Hawk HPS pads, both with caveats:


I have the Hawk HPS pads on, when they squeak it is from not getting any hard use. Some hard braking runs in a safe location fixes it for a long time. They definitely grab better than stock. They smell some when they get really hot though.


I have been running the Hawk High Performance Street pads with stock system for a while now, ever since the stock pads wore out. They worked well with the stock rotors and also work well with the Command rotors that I have on currently. Drag raced at MVIV running back to back as quickly as I could loop around. Multiple hard braking from 95mph with no fading at all. They squeaked a good bit when they were really hot, but the noise went away as soon as they cooled.

Once in a great while the pads will get intermittent squeaking, then I take them out for a little "exercise" and they are quiet again. Most of my driving is local city driving under 35 mph so the Hawk pads just don't get enough excitement in their lives.

Another option:


Thanks for the suggestion. Seems everyone that uses the HPS get squeaking. I searched about them. Also, after searching the forums, I have decided to go with Wagner ThermoQuiets. Seem they have excellent fade resistance, and NEVER squeak.

And, its rebuttal:


I can't recommend the Wagner ThermoQuiets to anyone looking for increased braking performance. They are however very quiet and brake as well as OEM pads. I'm using Hawk HPS now and am just as happy with them on this big car as I was with them on my Notchback for street use.

Still, another recommendation, with part numbers:


I love the Bendix CT3 pads. You can get them from Avanced Auto Parts or any dealer in your area. The part# for the fronts is D931CT ($65.48) and the rears are D932CT($57.48). These are great ceramic pads and I use them with a set of cross-drilled and slotted cryo treated rotors all the way around. No squeak, low dust and great performance. I have used these on all the vehicles I have owned. Bendix great product, great quality, at a decent price. Plus they have a 2 year replacement warranty.

[studio460]

NAPA Ceramix links and other info:

NAPA Ceramix (front) part no. CMX7834 for stock Marauder calipers (http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=UP&PartNumber=CMX7834&Description=Brake+Pads+-+Front%2c+Ceramix)

NAPA Ceramix (rear) part no. CMX7835 for stock Marauder calipers (http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=UP&PartNumber=CMX7835&Description=Brake+Pads+-+Rear%2c+Ceramix)

NAPA Ceramix brake pad information:

Manufacturer:

Akebono (534) 6221-385
19-5 Nihonbashi, Koamicho, Chuo-ku
Tokyo, 103-8534 Japan

Supplier:

Rayloc
Division of Genuine Parts Company
600 Rayloc Drive S.W.
Atlanta, GA 30336

Composition [Rayloc Asbestos-Free Ceramix Disc Pad Lining Material]:

1344-28-1 Aluminum Oxide * 10 mg/m3
7440-36-0 Antimony Compounds 0.5 mg/m3 0.5 mg/m3
7727-43-7 Barium Sulfate * 10 mg/m3
1317-65-3 Calcium Carbonate * 10 mg/m3
1333-86-4 Carbon Black 3.5 mg/m3 3.5 mg/m3
7782-42-5 Graphite 15mppcf 2.5 mg/m3
1309-48-4 Magnesium Oxide * 10 mg/m3
1314-23-4 Zirconium Oxide 5 mg/m3 5 mg/m3
7439-98-7 Molybdenum Compounds 15 mg/m3 10 mg/m3
12001-26-2 Mica 3 mg/m3 3 mg/m3

[one or more of the following fibers:]

7440-50-8 Brass Fiber 1 mg/m3 1 mg/m3
7440-50-8 Copper Fiber 1 mg/m3 1 mg/m3
Various Fiber Blend N/A N/A
Fiber Glass N/A 10 mg/m3
Mineral Fiber N/A 10 mg/m3
7439-89-6 Steel Fiber N/A N/A
13983-17-0 Wollastonite N/A 10 mg/m3

[inert and nuisance dust:]

Various Cured Phenolic Resin Dusts 10 mg/m3 10 mg/m3
1309-37-1 Iron Oxide 10 mg/m3 10 mg/m3
1344-95-2 Calcium Silicate Hydrate 10 mg/m3 10 mg/m3

[magindat]

I used Akebono ceramic on stock sized Baer Decela rotors. I purchased and installed them all at the same time. I used Akebono due to previous positive experience with their ceramic product. They performed quite well on street and track (road course).

Later, when it came time to change them, I was advised toward a more available ceramic product from NAPA. I figured I needed pads and if they sucked they would bridge the gap unitl I could order Akebono again.

The NAPA pads exceeded the performance of the Akebono right away.

Of course there is the 'new pads' arguement to factor in, but the Akebono's weren't shot yet, either.

I must say, that even after roughly 12K miles I am VERY satisfied with the stopping power, predictability, lack of noise and lack of dust from the NAPA Ceramix. I consider them to be my replacement pad indefinately.

Further, I have had to defeat my ABS system and DO NOT have ABS. I get very good feedback from these pads (of course the steel lines help) and have NOT broken traction (even in panic mode) with these pads yet.

[studio460]

The NAPA pads exceeded the performance of the Akebono right away.
Thanks for your report! Interesting though, according to the NAPA MSDS (material safety data sheet), Akebono is noted as the "manufacturer" of the NAPA Ceramix pads (whereas, Rayloc, is listed as the "supplier), if I'm reading the sheet correctly. Why did you have to disable your ABS?

I was kind of hoping to find a pile of posts in this thread after coming home today. Any other opinions on the NAPA Ceramix, Hawk HPS, or any other high-performance pads? What about the semi-metallic-on-the-fronts with ceramic-on-the-rears strategy? Is that simply to improve the life of the fronts, and NOT for increased stopping power? Does everyone agree that ceramic composites on all fours is the best material for optimum braking performance?

[magindat]

Akebono is noted as the "manufacturer" of the NAPA Ceramix pads

Wouldn't surprise me.


Why did you have to disable your ABS?

Tire size. Back too big.

[red]

If you want a comparison, take a look at Tire Rack's site.

Hawk Performance HPS (http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?&make=Hawk&model=HPS+Street+brake+pads&group=HPS+Street+brake+pads&autoMake=Mercury&autoModel=Marauder&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=&perfCode=S)

Akebono ProACT Ceramic Pads (http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?&make=Akebono&model=ProACT+Ceramic+Pads&group=ProACT+Ceramic+Pads&autoMake=Mercury&autoModel=Marauder&autoYear=2004&autoModClar=&perfCode=P)

TireRack gives the HPS a 4 out of 5 on stopping power and the Akebono a 2 out of 5.

If you're planning to go for something other than stock, stopping power should be the primary consideration. I have the HPS and can tell you that they work extremely well.

[studio460]

TireRack gives the HPS a 4 out of 5 on stopping power and the Akebono a 2 out of 5. If you're planning to go for something other than stock, stopping power should be the primary consideration. I have the HPS and can tell you that they work extremely well.
Very interesting! Thanks for posting those links! I guess the question is, how close are the Akebono "ProACT" ceramic pads, to the Akebono-manufactured, NAPA-branded, "Ceramix" pads? Well, I just did a more extensive search, and couldn't find an MSDS for the Akebono ProACTs ANYWHERE. Looks like I may be giving the Hawks a try. Don't care about dust (which the Akebonos are low in). Don't like squeaks either (again, Akebono, and ceramics in general, apparently win here, too), but the Hawks do appear to have superior stopping power, when compared with the Akebono ProACT ceramics (whose precise composition is unknown, but I'm guessing is similar, if not exactly, the same as the NAPA Ceramix pads).

Okay, a bit more searching . . . the Hawk HPS "ferro-carbon" compound seems to be the key. Although the NAPA Ceramix is a "ceramic" pad, it also contains copper and/or brass fibers as well. "Ferro" would denote a "ferrous-metal" compound would it not? Anyway, it seems from searching some other forums, the "carbon" compounds seem to be the ones with the most stopping power. "Ceramics" appear to be recommended for those who want less dust (or, at least, less "visible" dust), and possibly quieter operation. I think I'm gonna go for the Hawk HPS ferro-carbons. Thanks for everyone's contributions!

[QWK SVT]

I can't compare the two pads (HPS and ProACT) on the same vehicle, but am using a set of each in my vehicles - The HPS in my Lightning, and the ProACT pads in the Marauder... Since they are both heavy vehicles, I think a little comparison of my thoughts are fair:

The HPS are great at stopping the heavy truck, but do create a fair bit of dust. My truck sees limited use, so this is fine, given my use. Stopping power is substancially better than stock - I was stopping short, until I got used to the pads. There is no fade to these brakes, from what I can tell. Basically, the only downside is the dust. After a few hours worth of driving, you can see the dust start to build up. You would have to really have to work, to keep the wheels clean on a daily driver.

I don't know how the TireRack test was performed, but I don't agree with their rating on stopping power... Stopping power has noticably improved over stock. The ProACTs on the Marauder seem to be a great choice, for a daily driver. They are very quiet. There is little to no dust, even if the car is not washed as often as I'd like. If you're looking for a low maintenance upgrade for a daily driver, I would highly recommend them. I got a great deal on these pads, and am quite happy with the choice.

[ckadiddle]

I haven't noticed wheel dust from the Hawk pads, but the MMs live outside and probably get the wheels dirty enough from driving though construction zones around here that I don't notice.

[studio460]

The HPS in my Lightning, and the ProACT pads in the Marauder . . . the HPS are great at stopping the heavy truck, but do create a fair bit of dust. My truck sees limited use, so this is fine, given my use. Stopping power is substancially better than stock - I was stopping short, until I got used to the pads. There is no fade to these brakes, from what I can tell. Basically, the only downside is the dust. After a few hours worth of driving, you can see the dust start to build up.
Thanks for that report! Well, for better or worse, I just picked up a set of the Hawk HPS pads. How heavy is your Lightning? Are your Lightning's rotors/calipers larger than a Marauder's?


I don't know how the TireRack test was performed, but I don't agree with their rating on stopping power . . . Stopping power [of the Akebono ProACTs] have noticably improved over stock.
Yes, it would be interesting to know how those ratings are arrived at by Tire Rack.


I haven't noticed wheel dust from the Hawk pads, but the MMs live outside and probably get the wheels dirty enough from driving though construction zones around here that I don't notice.

Well, that's one member with lots of dust, and one member with no "noticable" dust with the Hawk HPS pads. Can't wait to get these things in there and bed them in to see for myself. Whatever I have in there now totally suck. I think they're some no-name, semi-metallic pads some brake place put in when I needed some new fronts in a hurry.

Thanks again, for everyone's input! Keep 'em coming, since I'll have to change pads again someday. I gotta hand it to Pep Boys . . . I called late this morning, and they had the fronts shipped from one store, and the rears shipped from another location by 4:00PM this afternoon! Just got 'em home and am about to pull my floor jack out.

[red]

Yes, it would be interesting to know how those ratings are arrived at by Tire Rack.

They have some information here (http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/).


Well, that's one member with lots of dust, and one member with no "noticable" dust with the Hawk HPS pads.

There will be a lot of dust. My wheels are a nice reddish brown now.


I gotta hand it to Pep Boys . . . I called late this morning, and they had the fronts shipped from one store, and the rears shipped from another location by 4:00PM this afternoon!

Yeah, I was shocked they carried them. They were in stock at the one by me. Good deal too (comparable to online pricing).

[studio460]

There will be a lot of dust. My wheels are a nice reddish brown now.
Great! But, it says "LOW DUST" in BIG capital letters on the Hawk box! LIARS!


Yeah, I was shocked they carried them. They were in stock at the one by me. Good deal too (comparable to online pricing).
Yes! Thanks for the head's-up on that one (or, whoever it was that posted somewhere that Pep Boys carries them)!

Well, I just installed and bedded the rears (the POS semi-metallics are still on the fronts—will change those this weekend). Had to stop for traffic about five times for about 30 seconds each (don't they KNOW I'm trying to bed my brakes!!!) They seem to work well. Will make a report when the fronts are in too, and fully bedded.

[red]

Great! But, it says "LOW DUST" in BIG capital letters on the Hawk box! LIARS!
Yeah, that's a joke. Though, I guess it's all relative. They are low dust compared to the HP Plus line.


Yes! Thanks for the head's-up on that one (or, whoever it was that posted somewhere that Pep Boys carries them)!
No problem. I mentioned it in another thread.


Had to stop for traffic about five times for about 30 seconds each (don't they KNOW I'm trying to bed my brakes!!!).
Yeah, I got a few looks when bedding them. :D


They seem to work well. Will make a report when the fronts are in too, and fully bedded.
There's probably no noticeable difference with the rears alone considering how little work they do (assuming weight transfer of a stock suspension). I only did the fronts as the rears had plenty of life and I could not justify upgrading them.

[ckadiddle]

Keep in mind that I am VERY nearsighted. ;) Would have to lay down in the driveway with my reading glasses on to check for dust. LOL

[QWK SVT]

Thanks for that report! Well, for better or worse, I just picked up a set of the Hawk HPS pads. How heavy is your Lightning? Are your Lightning's rotors/calipers larger than a Marauder's?

The Lightning is 5,000lbs with me, and about 1/4 tank of gas... It's no lightweight :D

The rotors are 13.1" and 12.1" compared to the MM's 10.8" and 10.2" so yeah, they are larger. You need something there to slowdown the fridge!




Well, that's one member with lots of dust, and one member with no "noticable" dust with the Hawk HPS pads. Can't wait to get these things in there and bed them in to see for myself. Whatever I have in there now totally suck. I think they're some no-name, semi-metallic pads some brake place put in when I needed some new fronts in a hurry.

Thanks again, for everyone's input! Keep 'em coming, since I'll have to change pads again someday. I gotta hand it to Pep Boys . . . I called late this morning, and they had the fronts shipped from one store, and the rears shipped from another location by 4:00PM this afternoon! Just got 'em home and am about to pull my floor jack out.

Trust me - you'll love the HPS pads! They really do offer a marked improvement over stock. If you've got something worse than stock already in place... Well... You're in for a treat, when you take a "spirited" drive. All aspects of the pads are great, except the dust. If you can live with some dust on the wheels, or give the car frequent baths, you will not see this as an inconvenience, at all.

[Aren Jay]

Which one do not sqeak squeal whine etc... Those are the ones I want.

A friend has had lots of problems finding brake pads that do not squeak for his towncar. I'm waiting for him to find something then I will pick up a similar set for my Marauder.

[studio460]

Trust me - you'll love the HPS pads! They really do offer a marked improvement over stock. If you've got something worse than stock already in place... Well... You're in for a treat, when you take a "spirited" drive. All aspects of the pads are great, except the dust. If you can live with some dust on the wheels, or give the car frequent baths, you will not see this as an inconvenience, at all.
Thanks! Really appreciate everyone's help. I think I made a very informed decision with the Hawk HPS pads with everyone's help here. Even with just the rears installed, there's a marked improvement over the POS semi-metallics that were on there. Really looking forward to installing and bedding the fronts this weekend.

About the dust . . . I was thinking of keeping a pail of that tire cleaner solution they use at the car wash in the driveway, and literally, just splash some on every morning before I go to work. I wonder what that stuff is that they use? Does anyone know? (Or, even better, how about a "moat" in the driveway, filled with that stuff, that you would simply "drive-through" everyday!)


Which one do not sqeak squeal whine etc... Those are the ones I want.
Although I don't have first-hand experience with this, but from what I've read, ceramics in general are largely marketed for their quiet operation and low dust. The NAPA Ceramix or the Akebono ProACTs, sold through TireRack (which may in fact be the exact same product—I don't know), seem to be the most popular choice among ceramic pads.

[Icarus]

I imagine they would perform similar on a Marauder as my Mark VIII is similar size/weight. I've been real happy with the Porterfield R4S pads I put on for the past 1 1/2 years.
Very little dust and it's light colored too (they did dust pretty good when bedding them in though.) Decent cold bite, and when warm grab really well! No noise. I took off brand new Ford pads to try them and glad I did.
I just ordered another set to use on the Cobra brake caliper/rotor upgrade front and rear too...

[studio460]

TWO-WEEK HAWK HPS REAR PAD REPORT:

Well, I didn't have enough time last weekend to change out the front pads yet, but I did want to make a brief report on the rear Hawk HPS pads that I did replace. Stopping power is noticably improved, even with just the rears installed. There is some minor squeaking. It's intermittent, but occurs daily. But, it's a very "soft" squeak. So much so, that I don't mind it much at all. I'll trade increased stopping power for this "mild" squeak any day.

[red]

Well, I didn't have enough time last weekend to change out the front pads yet, but I did want to make a brief report on the rear Hawk HPS pads that I did replace. Stopping power is noticably improved, even with just the rears installed. There is some minor squeaking. It's intermittent, but occurs daily. But, it's a very "soft" squeak. So much so, that I don't mind it much at all. I'll trade increased stopping power for this "mild" squeak any day.

Glad to hear you're happy with them. I haven't noticed any squeaking with my fronts, however, I am using upgraded rotors (Brembo OEMs). Of course, there's the dust, but as you said, it's well worth the stopping power.

[darkvader1]

what about performance friction pads. i got them n mind an they stop great.

[musclemerc]

I own the hawk pads and brake dust is not an issue. My wheels stay clean and my Merc is a daily driver

[Krytin]

[quote=QWK SVT;633114]I
I don't know how the TireRack test was performed, but I don't agree with their rating on stopping power... quote]

If you do a little more research, the individual manufacturers rate their own ceramic pads as having less stopping power than their own metalic pads - ceramic pads have less stopping power than metallic pads but have less vissible dust and are quiet. You have to decide what it is you are looking for but the truth is in an unbiased, in-house evaluation from a MFG that makes both types of pads.