Tried to set new Alignment, guy said NOGO... [Archive]

MinnesotaMuscle

07-11-2008, 08:20 AM

Ok, the inside of my tires are wearing badly like everyone is complaining about, So I brought it back up to the very reputable body shop that fixed it from hitting the deer and this is what happened....I gave him the specs that were recomended here.

The print out shows my initial settings were..

Caster - Left: 5.8 deg
...........Right: 6.1 deg

Camber - Left: -0.6 deg
............Right: -0.7 deg

Toe - Left: 0.05 deg
.......Right: 0.00 deg
.......Total: 0.05 deg

Now he said he was able to get everything corrected EXCEPT the camber...... He said it had no more adjustment left in it....that it was maxed out. This is what was the final settings.

Caster - Left: 5.5 deg
...........Right: 5.8 deg

Camber - Left: -0.7 deg
........... Right: -0.7 deg

Toe - Left: 0.00 deg
.......Right: 0.00 deg
.......Total: 0.00 deg

Guys I'm almost clueless with this stuff, so whats your opinions? From what I do understand the car will still handle well, but will the adjustments he made do anything for the tire wear? I'm thinking not.....

He said he could only find one adjustment for the camber, he said it was the lower one(?) he said something about usually there is two, one top and one on the bottom with CV's and such.

Now these guys kind of did this as a favor as they did an alignment after repairing it from the collision, and when I told him about the abnormal wear and that I had new specs he said they would do it again if I brought them in with the vehicle, so I really don't want to over use a favor as sorts.

Egon Spengler

07-11-2008, 10:12 AM

I was told they have to remove a piece to get it to the right angle... I am also maxed out on mine and they said that is as far as it goes and that they can't meet "carfixer's" spec that I supplied to them... I guess there is something blocking it that need to be removed... From what I hear you lose rubbe on your inners, but it is great for handling! I don't care about handling... I don't want to have to replace tires every year!!!!

SID210SA

07-11-2008, 10:29 AM

Yes....if you look under your car wher the control arms are....there is a bolt on each arm...there is some sort of metal bracket on those bolts....this is supposed to be removed for alignment purposes....if I can find a pic I will post it up...thats is what my alignment guy told me and he showed them to me and said who ever did my first alignment didnt do it correctly.

KillJoy

07-11-2008, 10:35 AM

They need to remove the Flag off of the Front of the bolt.

:up:

KillJoy

SID210SA

07-11-2008, 10:58 AM

Ok....sorry for the poor quality of the pic but I took it with my camera phone the bolt is the one behind the boot:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/9/4/3/alignment.jpg

MinnesotaMuscle

07-11-2008, 11:19 AM

I know what your saying, its just that I don't see it....slap an arrow on the picture pointing to the flag and I'll run out and look on my car....you think I should remove it before bringing it in? I'm thinking the guy will be hesitant to do so....

MinnesotaMuscle

07-11-2008, 11:27 AM

THIS IT?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb47/gunman_7/alignment-1.jpg

SID210SA

07-11-2008, 11:29 AM

on this pic where you put the arrows...that piece has already been removed....this pic shows what it should look like after being done properly, thats why its kind of shinier than whats around it.

SID210SA

07-11-2008, 11:34 AM

As far as removing it...thats what they are supposed to do when doing the alignment

CRUZTAKER

07-11-2008, 11:35 AM

Ditto to what everyone has said.

Take it back and make them do it correctly.

I had a hard time convincing my L/M dealer as well, but they finally went with it.

Nearly 10k on new fronts and NO wear at all now.;)

MinnesotaMuscle

07-11-2008, 04:11 PM

Alright....once these tornado's go threw I'll go check it out.....Dang weather....

imorb1994

07-13-2008, 10:30 PM

Ok....sorry for the poor quality of the pic but I took it with my camera phone the bolt is the one behind the boot:

Does any body have a better picture of this? Certainly SID210SA isn't the only one who has had this done.
I also got the NO GO comment from the alignment shop but set it as close as possible.

Stranger in the Black Sedan

07-14-2008, 05:48 AM

Alignment guys are often not the brightest..... I found a dealer tech who lets me use their alignment rack at night myself so I know it's done right..... I can send you a pic of the flag tonight. I took pics when I took them off to align the car a little while ago

Aren Jay

07-15-2008, 07:30 PM

Would the size of tires make a difference?

Are you using the 245/55/18's on the back or 255/55/18's?

carfixer

07-15-2008, 07:45 PM

Here is a picture of the "flag". If this is still on, they didn't set the camber.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/camber.jpg

imorb1994

07-15-2008, 09:17 PM

Here is a picture of the "flag". If this is still on, they didn't set the camber.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/camber.jpg

I guess my alignment guy needs to be shot then cause i don't have this and according to the sheet they gave me it doesn't meet the specs

Stranger in the Black Sedan

07-16-2008, 05:21 AM

There you go. You can get a couple tenths adjustment out of those. The first 2 alignments I had were with the flags still on and they got the camber down to just like you said, around -0.7. Getting the flags off wasn't as easy as I thought it would be. I had to use an air cut off tool and cold chisel. One of the shops I went to was telling me that they had to order a "camber kit" and that there was "no camber cam under the flag"........ right...

DOOM

07-17-2008, 12:13 PM

Wow i never knew getting an alignment could be this complicated :shake:

GordonB

07-17-2008, 08:25 PM

Carfixer,
Thank you for posting a pic of the 'flag'. My '04 was done to best effort, but I was told that there was not much adjustment left -- Front is all stock and has 51K miles. My '03 has 10K more miles and I got no such comment. I'll look for the 'flags' myself when I do the next 2 oil changes. Easy to spot either way.
GordonB

MinnesotaMuscle

07-31-2008, 04:19 PM

Ok guys, we went at it again, the flags had already been removed.....and there were cams there, with them maxed out we still couldn't get any better than .7 with the camber.... It does look like if I removed the cams I could get enough out of it to get it to work, but will the whole thing stay together and not move without the cams there? The guy was great and explained everything...just not sure what else to do......

Black_Noise

08-02-2008, 06:19 PM

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb47/gunman_7/alignment-1.jpg
you got a dirty rack!

Midnight

08-06-2008, 11:22 PM

What are the specific spec's that i should hand to my mechanic to have it aligned. their prob on here somewhere.. but i cant find them. could someone fill me in? :help:

MM03MOK

08-07-2008, 04:37 AM

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/reviews/showcat.php/cat/19

Found in the Reviews section (link in the navigation bar at the top of each page.)

Stranger in the Black Sedan

08-07-2008, 04:51 AM

No you can not take the cams off!!!!! Is your car lowered? The only explanation for running out of alignment with the stock suspension would be a lowered car. On these cars stock, you have enough adjustment w/ the camber cams to go into the positive camber territory. If you can't do that, something is not right.

MinnesotaMuscle

08-11-2008, 08:49 PM

Nope not lowered, this is driving me crazy as the tire on the drivers side are now showing cords.....DANG this is irritating....I'm going to buy new tires and put in front struts at the same time...hopefully Carfixer or someone else responds to my new thread....I'm ready to drill out the holes to give 'em more adjustment if this goes on anylonger....

Stranger in the Black Sedan

08-13-2008, 11:00 AM

I don't know, with the flags off on my car you could go way past -1.5 degrees, or go into + territory. I would take it to a totally different shop and start over. Someone is doing something wrong there to not be able to get the camber close to zero.

See the cam in the picture above (the one with the comment, that's a dirty rack?) That cam is almost in the middle of the range. The fattest part of the lobe is pointing down. If you rotate it clockwise, the fat part of the lobe will push the control arm inward, causing increasingly positive camber. If you turn it counterclockwise, it will push the lower arm out and cause increasingly negative camer. Where that hole is drilled, is the factory hole where they pin it to install everything. If you line that hole in the cam up with the hole in the flag (which puts the hole in the cam in the 6 o clock position), that should be around negative 1.0 camber. See if your cams are in a similar position.

DOOM

11-01-2008, 10:43 AM

here you go High-C

DOOM

11-01-2008, 10:51 AM

can someone please for the love of god make this a sticky???

High-C

11-01-2008, 02:37 PM

here you go High-C

Thanks my brother... I appreciate your help once again. :beer:

Windsor58

12-12-2008, 04:29 PM

Question for the alignment gurus - I had mine done a little over a week ago using the spec from here. After a few days, the steering wheel started getting crooked. I didn't hit any potholes or curbs or anything. Took it back today, and they said one cam was loose. Talked a bit more and found out that they did not put the "tabs" back on. Said they got too messed up trying to get them off. They said they didn't think they needed to be on there. I have my doubts. What say you?

This pic in the thread above shows the tab that I am talking about - the one with the red arrows pointing to it.

imorb1994

12-12-2008, 04:32 PM

To be set to carfixers specs, the tabs have to be removed.
All is ok as long as everything is tight:up:

Windsor58

12-12-2008, 04:36 PM

To be set to carfixers specs, the tabs have to be removed.
All is ok as long as everything is tight:up:

Even though they didn't put the tabs back on? I knew they had to be removed, but I just assumed that they would put them (or new ones) back on when they got everything set.

imorb1994

12-12-2008, 04:38 PM

The tabs are a disposable item. It is fine without them.
When the alignment is adjusted the bolts are turned, and new tabs would most likely not fit either

Windsor58

12-12-2008, 04:39 PM

Cool. Thanks. They did tighten everything down good this time, so I should be good to go.

GetMeMyStogie

12-28-2008, 10:04 AM

Here's a pic of the flags after they're removed, in case it isn't yet clear what's supposed to be removed:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=43&pictureid=279

Glenn

12-28-2008, 10:23 AM

hidperf

12-29-2008, 07:19 AM

I finally found a competent shop near me that could get my 03 300A aligned to carfixers specs. The camber was still a smidge off due to the Eibachs but now I LOVE driving the car.

fastblackmerc

12-29-2008, 08:33 AM

I have owned my MM for nearly 6 years/65,000 miles and never had an alignment. Can you just completely remove the bolt and then remove the flag - why the mention of an air chisel to remove the flag. Is the flag spot welded to the bolt head??

Glenn
Look at post #15. See the little tabs between the bolt head and flag? These tabs need to be removed so the flag can be removed.

Stranger in the Black Sedan

12-30-2008, 07:14 AM

have owned my MM for nearly 6 years/65,000 miles and never had an alignment. Can you just completely remove the bolt and then remove the flag - why the mention of an air chisel to remove the flag. Is the flag spot welded to the bolt head??

Ummmmm, the "bolt" you are speaking about holds one of the LCA pivots in. If you take this "bolt" out, the control arm is going to hit you in the head with the force of the coiled spring. You will be in several hundred pounds force of hurt. No.

It's staked on. The edges of the hex head are peened over onto the flag. Seeing as how the "bolt" is hardened steel, you can't just pry the flag off with a craftsmen screw driver.

MinnesotaMuscle

04-04-2009, 07:25 AM

Shora

04-04-2009, 11:06 AM

Well I'm glad to see this thread isn't dead. I brought the car up to the dealership and complained about the bad tire wear, because if you remember in my other posts the first shop tried MANY times to get it to carfixer's specs and just couldn't do it. The dealership found parts that were bent/wore out. So they said they would replace them for free being I had only bought the car a year ago. I was surprised they did this but I was getting very impatient at this point and I'm sure they could tell that.

The deal was I would pay for the new tires if they fixed the parts and did a new alignment. I told them it would still be a problem if they put it to factory specs but she said, no, no, the problem lies in the bad parts. SO, now the winter has gone by and sure enough you can see the definite beginning of the inner tire wear.....

So now what, go back and jump up and down screaming? Should they give me new tires and a new alignment? This is getting depressing AND EXPENSIVE!!!!!

My local dealership told me they can do Carfixer's specs "no problem". So I bought new fronts tires and left the car with them.

However, when I saw the printout of the specs (which I had to request) they were off. I spoke with the tech and he said that it's the closest he can get. He just could NOT do better.

I ended up driving all the way across the State to have Carfixer himself do it. 3+ years later and the wear is still 100% perfect.

bobsawyer7

04-04-2009, 06:30 PM

Well I'm glad to see this thread isn't dead. I brought the car up to the dealership and complained about the bad tire wear, because if you remember in my other posts the first shop tried MANY times to get it to carfixer's specs and just couldn't do it. The dealership found parts that were bent/wore out. So they said they would replace them for free being I had only bought the car a year ago. I was surprised they did this but I was getting very impatient at this point and I'm sure they could tell that.

The deal was I would pay for the new tires if they fixed the parts and did a new alignment. I told them it would still be a problem if they put it to factory specs but she said, no, no, the problem lies in the bad parts. SO, now the winter has gone by and sure enough you can see the definite beginning of the inner tire wear.....

So now what, go back and jump up and down screaming? Should they give me new tires and a new alignment? This is getting depressing AND EXPENSIVE!!!!!

If they don't remove the flags from the bolts they won't be able to meet carfixer specs. They have to be cut off but once that's done they can meet the specs. If they say they can't then you may want to look for another shop to do the work.

knine

04-04-2009, 06:48 PM

Look at post #15. See the little tabs between the bolt head and flag? These tabs need to be removed so the flag can be removed.
I took a pic in for my "alignment specialist" to get it right. Wear looked as though it ended. Keeping an eye on the new meat to make sure. Thanks CARFIXER !!! nyuk nyuk nyuk.

MinnesotaMuscle

06-05-2009, 05:41 AM

Well as an update, I did go back to the dealer and jump up and down yelling... literally. I have now put 90K+ on the car since I bought it and I was able to talk them into replacing my new tires and doing another alignment for free. The deal was that they would replace everything and not to bring the car back to them.... That it was now my issue... So looks like the tech was able to get to the specs carfixer calls for... Now only time will tell....... I do think that its pretty bad that the dealership agrees its a problem since I bought the car from them, and even while there executive drove the car they were replacing tires every 15K, yet they still won't see the problem out to the very end, but instead tell me to not come back.... If the tire wear persists, I suppose I could take them to court to get another set of tires out of them, but I don't think it would be worth the $400 it would save me.... Boy I hope this works......

jonroe

06-05-2009, 08:33 AM

I had my local mechanic do the work - he does all my work that I don't do and he specializes in front end work. He saw the problem immediately and "carefully" torched off the flags because you cannot "take them off" in a normal fashion. Now I am at the improved specs though I can't tell about wear yet - I only have about 5k miles since then.

DJCV

06-05-2009, 05:20 PM

Dealer-shmealer...!

tremblay

10-24-2010, 06:29 AM

Hey guys!!! I have another question!!!! I want to go with CARFIXERs alignment specs but can I still do that since i'm going with a slightly different tire size? Sorry for repost but got no answer on previous thread....

FordNut

10-24-2010, 06:40 AM

Tire size shouldn't have an impact on the alignment, but lowering springs might.

tremblay

10-24-2010, 06:44 AM

Thanks for quick response!!!!

tremblay

10-28-2010, 11:22 AM

Oh boy, car is at dealership today and they called me to say they cant meet the specs!!1 Same problem everyone is having! I told them what was said here that they have to remove the flags, I'm not too optimistic, didn't seem to know what I was talking about...why is getting an alignment so complicated? Probably will need to bring it to an other shop....

tremblay

10-28-2010, 12:15 PM

Wow, now they are telling me it is possible these specs wouldn't work properly on a Canadian marauder...is there any truth to that? I mean you would think Canadian and American marauders would be aligned the same...i don't know

They said if I found out exactly what needed to be done they would do it but as of now that's as good as they can do...What is it they need to do exactly in order to meet the specs? I'm reading remove the flags but that means nothing to me or them...

Thats as close as they could get
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad96/tremblaysi/alignment.jpg

adtaylor

04-13-2011, 04:16 AM

THIS IT?

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb47/gunman_7/alignment-1.jpg

Just want to be clear on this, is this how it should look after the camber bolt cover is removed or is this before the camber blot cover is removed?

justbob

04-13-2011, 06:08 PM

That's after. (flag removed)

Without the flag (lock) the camber bolt will have a small amount of travel. Of course, not enough in my case as well as many others.

MMinMN

06-28-2011, 10:35 AM

I had my Marauder aligned to these specs about a year ago. Had my master mechanic brother do it while I stood there and watched. Yes he removed the flags. Installed new KDWS tires on the front at the same time too. About 15,000 miles and one year later, as every other year, the tires are wearing uneven and the steering wheel shake is back. I also rotate the tires side to side every 3K miles. So what's the next step........... try new tires???

RF Overlord

07-05-2011, 11:39 AM

Wow, now they are telling me it is possible these specs wouldn't work properly on a Canadian marauder...is there any truth to that? No. Find another shop. There is no difference between a Canadian Marauder and an American one other than the instrument cluster markings and DRLs.

I know this is an old thread, but in case anyone else has the same question...

RF Overlord

07-05-2011, 11:42 AM

About 15,000 miles and one year later, as every other year, the tires are wearing uneven and the steering wheel shake is back. I also rotate the tires side to side every 3K miles. So what's the next step........... try new tires???What are you using for tires now? I have the OEMs on Phoebe and find no abnormal wear at all. Sounds like you hit something and your alignment is off. Have it checked and then have the front wheels Road Force balanced.

MMinMN

07-21-2011, 10:29 AM

OEM wheels and new OEM KDWS's were installed on the front when I had the alignment done. They were road forced balnced too.

Speed Racer

12-16-2011, 11:05 AM

MOTOWN

12-16-2011, 12:56 PM

If your "tech" guy cant understant what removing flags off the lower control arms mean to gain more adjustment you need to find a different shop!

fastblackmerc

12-16-2011, 02:04 PM

If your "tech" guy cant understant what removing flags off the lower control arms mean to gain more adjustment you need to find a different shop!

+1!!!

The picture in post #52 is with the flags removed.

guspech750

12-16-2011, 06:12 PM

Carfixers pic on post #15 showing flags removed is not there.
I need to get this procedure done asap. I understand the pic with the arrows if before hand. Can anyone post a pic of what it should look like afterwards. I would like to show it to the tech so they know what I mean.
Thanks.

Just take a big hammer and knock them off. That's what I and others did. Just do it yourself and save yourself the aggravation of having a tech do it.

---
- Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

GreekGod

10-22-2012, 10:01 PM

Can someone please post a picture of the flags to be removed?

====

Blackmobile

10-23-2012, 06:57 AM

Pix in the first post:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79271&highlight=alignment+flags

Can someone please post a picture of the flags to be removed?

====

GreekGod

10-23-2012, 08:05 AM

Pix in the first post:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79271&highlight=alignment+flags

Thanks! I see it now. For some reason, the "flag" pic didn't show last night (only the "flagless" pic showed).

What's weird is my L-M dealer said he couldn't meet all of Carfixer's specs when he aligned my front end, and I always wondered if he removed the flags, and I now see they are gone.

04MRADR

11-10-2012, 07:18 PM

Okay Minnesota Muscle. First off, I joind the online club in 2005 and if you want any advice on how to fix something on the MM check out our forums. I adopted my 2004 MM in August 2004 right out of the showroom. It wasn't long before I noticed the inside front treads were wearing. So this was a common complaint in the early days and a club member who worked as an alignment specialist found the answer. The factory specs were dead wrong ! He put on the Forums the way the alignment should be done but I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the post so maybe another member can help you out. I printed his recommendations, took them to my mechanic who keeps them on file and I have never had an alignment or inside tread wear problem since ! That was about 150 K ago since I got only 35 K out of the original BF Goodrich tires. And speaking of tires, the rears wear prematurely down the middle of the tire. This rear tire problem was identified early on by club members as well. Some members suggested the rims aren't wide enough for the larger rear tires. So instead of the factory recommeded 35 psi I run with 32 and have 52 K on my current Goodyear P255/55/18 tires which are SUV tires. I went a size above the 245s and have been doing that for years. This is the most tread life I've had on a rear set and should get a few thousand more just from keeping the pressure a few psi down. And no, I see no change in performance or gas mileage.

Prwillis

04-09-2013, 12:52 PM

anyone found a shop in the dearborn area or around there for trusted alignments?

Marauderjack

04-09-2013, 01:21 PM

A member who I cannot recall is a front end alignment guy for a living. He told the club the factory specs are dead wrong !

This is not true......the factory settings were for best handling and "curve carving" performance with minimal "bump steer" and not for optimum tire wear!!:shake:

Some of us have actually had very good luck with OEM alignment and others not so good and I blame most problems on transporters lashing them down so hard the alignment is disturbed badly!!

I actually have had great luck with tires other than the crappy BFG's......my Kumhos go about 50K miles and remain quiet with fairly even wear.....never been aligned and now I have 246K miles on it!!:beer::bows:

lji372

04-09-2013, 01:58 PM

This is not true......the factory settings were for best handling and "curve carving" performance with minimal "bump steer" and not for optimum tire wear!!:shake:

Some of us have actually had very good luck with OEM alignment and others not so good and I blame most problems on transporters lashing them down so hard the alignment is disturbed badly!!

I actually have had great luck with tires other than the crappy BFG's......my Kumhos go about 50K miles and remain quiet with fairly even wear.....never been aligned and now I have 246K miles on it!!:beer::bows:

you sir are one lucky guy!!!!
the car hauler tweeked yours right into place:beer: