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John Nero
07-17-2008, 01:30 PM
Ordered new trans from darren at BC Automotive (getting ready for atlanta)
(3700 stall torq muti disk)

Pops
07-17-2008, 01:36 PM
Trying for a little blood John? She should launch good with that convertor.

Bradley G
07-17-2008, 01:36 PM
congrts on the new trans, I'll be interested in your feedback after you get it installed.

John Nero
07-17-2008, 01:38 PM
Trying for a little blood John? She should launch good with that convertor.

got to make up for not being able to race last year at atlanta

MarauderTJA
07-17-2008, 01:46 PM
Now your talking Buddy!!!!:D

CRUZTAKER
07-17-2008, 02:43 PM
Keep us advised as to your progress, and total costs if you don't mind.

I was thinking of going there during the Seymour event this year and replacing mine.

John Nero
08-13-2008, 04:55 PM
new trans arrived today-being installed tomorrow-will post how the new torque converter feels like(3700 stall)

MarauderTJA
08-13-2008, 05:38 PM
new trans arrived today-being installed tomorrow-will post how the new torque converter feels like(3700 stall)

You'll be surprised:burnout:

Blackmobile
08-13-2008, 05:39 PM
new trans arrived today-being installed tomorrow-will post how the new torque converter feels like(3700 stall)

And now the Sagga begins.....I can smell the rubber now.

Local Boy
08-13-2008, 06:08 PM
Dayum!!!...That thing is going to yank your balls off, when you nail it!!!

AWESOME!!!

Go get'um Brutha...

ALOHA

John Nero
08-14-2008, 02:12 PM
well the trans is in-it feels good-tuesday morning the car is getting retuned and put on a dyno to see what kind of numbers we have

CRUZTAKER
08-14-2008, 02:55 PM
.... and total costs if you don't mind.

I was thinking of going there during the Seymour event this year and replacing mine.


................

John Nero
08-14-2008, 02:58 PM
................


pm sent to you

glassman99
08-14-2008, 05:55 PM
Ordered new trans from darren at BC Automotive (getting ready for atlanta)
(3700 stall torq muti disk)

Atlanta...SSHS8...Where the big boys play. November 8th. Looking forward to seeing you there. With the new pad at Commerce, you should launch like a rocket.

CRUZTAKER
08-14-2008, 06:05 PM
pm sent to you


Thanks for the info :up:

MarauderTJA
08-14-2008, 06:17 PM
well the trans is in-it feels good-tuesday morning the car is getting retuned and put on a dyno to see what kind of numbers we have

Tell Scott that I'll need my car tuned in October will ya? Hey I'll be in Plantation a couple of days (Tues-Wed) next week John. I'll give you a buzz.

MMMAN
08-22-2008, 10:42 AM
John,

if this new transmission holds up for at least a year with your driving,then it will be considered to be "bullet proof". Everyone will want one.

3700 tc? Time to give up the NOS bottle big boy.

Good luck with it.

MarauderTJA
08-22-2008, 10:52 AM
John,

if this new transmission holds up for at least a year with your driving,then it will be considered to be "bullet proof". Everyone will want one.

3700 tc? Time to give up the NOS bottle big boy.

Good luck with it.

Same tranny as mine. And I have put it to the test a few times:eek:..

Blackmobile
08-22-2008, 10:54 AM
Yeah John, what's your take on the new 3700 TC? How does it feel?

Svashtar
09-19-2008, 01:02 PM
John, got the info on the converter but what about the trans? Has it been rebuilt or is it a stock 4R70W or equivalent?

Thanks for the juicy details...

John Nero
09-19-2008, 01:05 PM
John, got the info on the converter but what about the trans? Has it been rebuilt or is it a stock 4R70W or equivalent?

Thanks for the juicy details...

stage 4- 470 trans with 475 internals

ts-pa
10-13-2008, 09:44 PM
How are you liking the trans? I've had mine since Dec '07 and am real pleased with it.

FordNut
10-13-2008, 09:59 PM
Mine never worked right from day one. Darrin was no help.

TAKEDOWN
10-13-2008, 10:27 PM
Ordered new trans from darren at BC Automotive (getting ready for atlanta)
(3700 stall torq muti disk)

Could you use a 3700 stall torque converter w/stack trans or would there have to be an upgrade?

Blackmobile
10-14-2008, 05:02 AM
Could you use a 3700 stall torque converter w/stack trans or would there have to be an upgrade?

You could install a high stall TC into a stock unit, but the input shaft may snap. In a built tranny they usually put in a hardened input shaft and upgraded clutches, among other things.

Ed

John Nero
10-14-2008, 05:25 AM
How are you liking the trans? I've had mine since Dec '07 and am real pleased with it.


will let you know after sunday-racing

Darrin
10-15-2008, 01:19 PM
Mine never worked right from day one. Darrin was no help.
Now this is just a suggestion...

But, if you would ever try to contact me and actually give me the chance to help you, that might work towards getting things moving just a little. I don't remember the details, but I do know that you made one call to me about this and we talked. I then never heard back from you, so I assumed that you got it working. Apparently that isn't the case?

I kind of need to know what it is that I am supposed to be figuring out and helping you with. For me to do my part, you MUST do your part as well.

It really isn't fair that you say things like you did here without ever having given me a fair and honest chance to help you.

So pick up the phone and make the call, please. But I am going to tell you this straight up and right now in front of everyone so that there is no misunderstanding. I don't do business this way and I am not at all happy. I would never treat you like this and will not accept being treated like this without some sort of modification to how things proceed.

Because of the way you did things here by just bashing me instead of talking to me, we are now off of the normal procedure that I would use for troubleshooting. You now really need to either bring me the car to sort out or take out the transmission and send it back to me so that I can replace it for you.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I fully intend to cover my product. I never leave anyone with anything that doesn't work, ever, and I will make 100% sure that yours works as advertised and do what it takes to insure that. But, I am going to do that in a fashion that isn't the norm where l bend over backwards to troubleshoot whatever trouble there might be, regardless of whether it's with my product, someone els's product or the car itself.

You put me in a bad spot when you chose to go around the normal route by posting that I didn't help you when honestly you never gave me the chance to do so. Regardless, I am going to be completely fair and help you if you choose to accept these terms for that.

Maybe you could tell everyone here what the apparent problem is so that they can try to figure it out for you. I might chime in with my .02 as well if I start to feel a little better about this.

Darrin

John Nero
10-15-2008, 01:30 PM
Mine never worked right from day one. Darrin was no help.

i do not agree about airing things out on a forum

Darin gave me what i ordered and the trans has been great-the real test will be this weekend and in atlanta and i am shure everything will be fine or better than before

merc
10-15-2008, 01:57 PM
i do not agree about airing things out on a forum


So what is a forum suppose to be used for. Or do we call our network of friends when we have problems with products? Color me confused.

John Nero
10-15-2008, 02:18 PM
So what is a forum suppose to be used for. Or do we call our network of friends when we have problems with products? Color me confused.


if you have an issue with a vendor call the vendor-i am shure you would not like someone saying something about you without knowing all the facts and posting something that might not be true

FordNut
10-15-2008, 02:30 PM
I did contact the vendor, twice. He did not respond with any suggestions of things to try, did not offer to fix it if I pull & ship it, absolutely NOTHING but silence. So I can only offer advice to other members based on my experience. As far as I'm concerned, I was screwed out of $1800.

FordNut
10-15-2008, 02:46 PM
Now this is just a suggestion...

But, if you would ever try to contact me and actually give me the chance to help you, that might work towards getting things moving just a little. I don't remember the details, but I do know that you made one call to me about this and we talked. I then never heard back from you, so I assumed that you got it working. Apparently that isn't the case?

I kind of need to know what it is that I am supposed to be figuring out and helping you with. For me to do my part, you MUST do your part as well.

It really isn't fair that you say things like you did here without ever having given me a fair and honest chance to help you.

So pick up the phone and make the call, please. But I am going to tell you this straight up and right now in front of everyone so that there is no misunderstanding. I don't do business this way and I am not at all happy. I would never treat you like this and will not accept being treated like this without some sort of modification to how things proceed.

Because of the way you did things here by just bashing me instead of talking to me, we are now off of the normal procedure that I would use for troubleshooting. You now really need to either bring me the car to sort out or take out the transmission and send it back to me so that I can replace it for you.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I fully intend to cover my product. I never leave anyone with anything that doesn't work, ever, and I will make 100% sure that yours works as advertised and do what it takes to insure that. But, I am going to do that in a fashion that isn't the norm where l bend over backwards to troubleshoot whatever trouble there might be, regardless of whether it's with my product, someone els's product or the car itself.

You put me in a bad spot when you chose to go around the normal route by posting that I didn't help you when honestly you never gave me the chance to do so. Regardless, I am going to be completely fair and help you if you choose to accept these terms for that.

Maybe you could tell everyone here what the apparent problem is so that they can try to figure it out for you. I might chime in with my .02 as well if I start to feel a little better about this.

Darrin

I did contact you and never got any suggestions on how to troubleshoot it, no answer to tune questions about driveability/dyno tune, no suggestion to remove & ship for replacement or repair.

I got somebody else to look at it and found that many of the supposedly NEW parts you installed were defective and/or the lower performance type parts that should have been replaced with the upgraded parts for a high power application.

We can go into more details if you want.

You were very critical of the LenTech workmanship from the tranny when you started on it, but at least it worked for over 20k miles. Yours didn't work for 20 miles.

merc
10-15-2008, 02:50 PM
Now I understand. It's sometimes very complicated when trying to hash things out with a vender. Sometimes we have to work things out over time. Where I draw the line is if you don't get things resolved in a timely manner and you have exhausted all means of trouble shooting, what do you do? It's a common practice to post your disapproval of service on the internet. It's happened on this site and other forums. Sometimes we run the danger of endorsing a product that we believe to be good but proved bad over time. The flip side of the story is to fear being moderated because you might have an opposing negative view of someone's product.

Darrin
10-16-2008, 07:03 AM
I did contact you and never got any suggestions on how to troubleshoot it, no answer to tune questions about driveability/dyno tune, no suggestion to remove & ship for replacement or repair.

I got somebody else to look at it and found that many of the supposedly NEW parts you installed were defective and/or the lower performance type parts that should have been replaced with the upgraded parts for a high power application.

We can go into more details if you want.

You were very critical of the LenTech workmanship from the tranny when you started on it, but at least it worked for over 20k miles. Yours didn't work for 20 miles.

I didn't want an argument, but you really leave me no choice because this just isn't right. You blindsided me with this because I had no idea that your transmission wasn't working other than the one phone call about the torque converter, which I did not build or provide, not locking up.

On that, I want it to be known that when it came to your converter, I am not responsible for that part of this deal. I gave you the option to go directly to the torque converter guy directly but you wanted me to do that for you. I got paid nothing for that part of your deal and did nothing in regards to it other than take payment from you to pass directly to him and accept the responsibility of boxing it up, shipping it and then receiving it at no extra charge other than actual costs.

But while we both know that I had nothing to do with the converter really, you include that cost in the amount that you claim to have gotten "screwed" out of.

So yes, since you seem to want to try and make me look bad, I want to get into all the details of this whole thing.

Lets start here.

You made a point to stress that there were many supposedly "NEW" parts that I supposedly told you I was providing and did not. What "NEW" parts are we talking about here?

Darrin

KillJoy
10-16-2008, 07:40 AM
Darrin did good by me on MY Trans. I have had ZERO issues with it. I even sent my TC to the place he recommended to have it rebuilt (Circle D in TX, if anyone cares).

:up:

KillJoy

Darrin
10-16-2008, 08:29 AM
Darrin did good by me on MY Trans. I have had ZERO issues with it. I even sent my TC to the place he recommended to have it rebuilt (Circle D in TX, if anyone cares).

:up:

KillJoy

Thanks much!

That is the same place his converter went to as well by the way.

Another part of what isn't being said is how I had my hands tied on what parts I could replace and what I couldn't.

His transmission was brought to me to be "freshened up" for a charge of $800. I was told that it was a good working transmission, but what I found when I took it apart was not at all what I expected from what I was being told. It was a smoked mess internally and I had to replace several things that I hadn't planned on. That is why it cost more than the initial estimate. When I figured out where we were on it and knew what I wanted to do, I was asked to instead save as much of the stuff from the old transmission as I could since he paid so much for it originally and he wanted to not waste that.

If I had my way I would have built him a transmisison like I normally do using all the parts that I normally use. Instead, I had to re-use parts that I didn't want to.

Perhaps there was miscommunication on all of this, I don't know. Perhaps I should have just refused to do it any way other than my way using all of the parts that I normally use instead of doing it the other way by trying to salvage anything I could. I couldn't have done that for the price he wanted me to though, but I guarantee you that if we chose that route than we wouldn't be having this mess that we have right here.

Whatever the case, it is where it is. I made the mistake of not doing things my way and that actually is my fault. I agreed to try and help someone keep their costs down on something that they supposedly handn't expected to be dealing with. I don't think it's fair that I am getting slammed for doing that, but I made the final choice on what to do on my end and I guess I have to live with the blowback from it. I will tell you that I won't be doing that again any time soon though. LOL

My bigger gripes are that I was taken out of the loop involuntarily once he thoght there was a problem and not given the chance to honestly help straighten out any potential issues. That isn't my fault and it definitely isn't fair that I am getting hammered for it. That wasn't based off of any sort of decision by me. And, if I am being bashed for re-using parts that he asked me to, then this is REALLY messed up.

From beginning to end I wasn't able to do my job the way I normally do. Instead of building the product that I have built my reputation on, I had to patch together someone else's work as best I could using as many parts from thier failed build as possible.

Not gonna happen again.

Darrin

Darrin
10-16-2008, 09:03 AM
The flip side of the story is to fear being moderated because you might have an opposing negative view of someone's product.


He has no fear of being moderated because of me at all anywhere. I don't approve of that sort of thing, period, and I will have no further part of any website where it happens.

Quite the opposite is going on here. I want him to honestly explain his perspective on the whole deal from start to finish to try to help me understand where things went wrong. I obviously wish that it could have happened in another fashion than by me hearing about it on a forum, but I didn't have any choice in that matter.

Darrin

FordNut
10-16-2008, 04:29 PM
I want him to honestly explain his perspective on the whole deal from start to finish to try to help me understand where things went wrong. I obviously wish that it could have happened in another fashion than by me hearing about it on a forum, but I didn't have any choice in that matter.

I'll tell the whole story, but you DID have a choice. You didn't return calls or emails and didn't weren't proactive in taking steps to take care of the customer after the sale. First, a rebuttal on some of your comments.


His transmission was brought to me to be "freshened up" for a charge of $800. I was told that it was a good working transmission, but what I found when I took it apart was not at all what I expected from what I was being told. It was a smoked mess internally and I had to replace several things that I hadn't planned on. That is why it cost more than the initial estimate. When I figured out where we were on it and knew what I wanted to do, I was asked to instead save as much of the stuff from the old transmission as I could since he paid so much for it originally and he wanted to not waste that.

The "smoked mess" did work better than the new one I got. But when you told me about it I said go ahead and replace whatever you have to. If the old Lentech parts you reused weren't salvageable and you used them anyway, how was that my fault?


If I had my way I would have built him a transmisison like I normally do using all the parts that I normally use. Instead, I had to re-use parts that I didn't want to.

Perhaps there was miscommunication on all of this, I don't know. Perhaps I should have just refused to do it any way other than my way using all of the parts that I normally use instead of doing it the other way by trying to salvage anything I could. I couldn't have done that for the price he wanted me to though, but I guarantee you that if we chose that route than we wouldn't be having this mess that we have right here.

My bigger gripes are that I was taken out of the loop involuntarily once he thoght there was a problem and not given the chance to honestly help straighten out any potential issues. That isn't my fault and it definitely isn't fair that I am getting hammered for it. That wasn't based off of any sort of decision by me. And, if I am being bashed for re-using parts that he asked me to, then this is REALLY messed up.

More to the point, the ONLY old part I asked you to try and salvage was the 26-spline hardened stub shaft and drum. And once again you were taken out of the loop because you ignored me.


On that, I want it to be known that when it came to your converter, I am not responsible for that part of this deal. I gave you the option to go directly to the torque converter guy directly but you wanted me to do that for you. I got paid nothing for that part of your deal and did nothing in regards to it other than take payment from you to pass directly to him and accept the responsibility of boxing it up, shipping it and then receiving it at no extra charge other than actual costs.

But while we both know that I had nothing to do with the converter really, you include that cost in the amount that you claim to have gotten "screwed" out of.

So yes, since you seem to want to try and make me look bad, I want to get into all the details of this whole thing.

Lets start here.

You made a point to stress that there were many supposedly "NEW" parts that I supposedly told you I was providing and did not. What "NEW" parts are we talking about here?

Darrin

When we were first talking about the converter, you said your guy could build it better than PI. I said OK, let's do it. You asked if I wanted you to take care of it and I said yes, that way I don't have to deal with finger-pointing like I have in the past. Now you're finger-pointing to the Circle D guy who I have never spoken to. I paid you, and I paid you for the whole deal, and I said up front I wanted a bulletproof tranny that will never have to be pulled out of the car again.

continued...

FordNut
10-16-2008, 04:29 PM
So here we go with the story...

In the beginning I contacted Darrin for advice on my LenTech tranny. The LenTech build seemed to work fine on the street, but on the strip it never hit hard on the 1-2 or 2-3 shifts. It wouldn’t chirp the tires and seemed to sort of slip a little. Darrin was very helpful, we tried increasing pressure in the tune, removing the accumulator valve spring, etc., but nothing helped.

During this same time I was having engine troubles, so when I pulled the engine to send out for a rebuild I contacted Darrin to see about having the tranny gone through. I/we suspected the main problem to be in the valve body but just for good measure I wanted Darrin to go through the whole thing. As stated earlier, I also wanted him to get his converter guy to beef up the PI triple plate converter since I was planning to up the power with the engine rebuild and Whipple. I also wanted to use the one-stop-shopping approach because of my previous tranny buildup experiences where the parts supplier, builder, and tuner got into a finger-pointing contest when the tranny failed and nobody wanted to back it up. I got time estimates of 2 weeks turnaround before we started. I told him it wasn’t a rush because of the engine build schedule.

I shipped the tranny to BC, and provided instructions on some concerns to pay particular attention to. Among the concerns was the fact that I had experienced leaks at the tailshaft and didn’t know if they were from the seal or from the cooling mod. These instructions were provided in email and by telephone.

Then the call comes that the transmission was totally burned up inside and will require a lot more work than we had planned on. I said OK, replace what you have to, but if the 26-spline hardened stub shaft and drum are re-useable I’d like to keep them in it. I assumed that to mean if they’re bad replace them and anything else that’s bad should be replaced too. (I don’t see too much hand-tying there.)

So the converter was gone for about 6 weeks, and after about 3-4 months for the tranny rebuild (not 2 weeks, but that’s partly my fault because I didn’t need it until the engine was done) I find that the tranny is ready. I go to pick it up 2 weeks later and get another surprise. It’s not ready. The OSS sensor wasn’t installed and the tranny was just sitting there on the floor asking for dust to get in the hole. No dust boots on the line fittings, dipstick hole, yoke, or front pump. I was kind of concerned since the ceiling of the shop had recently collapsed due to roof leaks and lots of rain, but he said it would be fine. And the shift position switch wasn’t installed. He put one on but wasn’t sure it was mine and gave me a spare, saying that one of them he has laying around had a problem. He shows me some of the parts that came out of my tranny and picks up a stack of friction & steel plates. Then he picks up a second set and says “oh, these are yours”, then finally on the third set he says “no, these are the ones”. Stacks & stacks of used parts laying around and no way to identify which ones came from which tranny. Oh, boy. Then we load it and I notice the rear seal is the little dinky one instead of the good seal. I ask about “special precautions for leak prevention” and he’s dumbfounded, saying “you never said anything about leaks”. I did but he didn’t listen. He gave me some good seals to take home with me and change out myself.

So I get it home and start preparing for installation. I found that a couple of o-rings in the line fittings were in terrible shape and called him to send replacements. He immediately starts to argue that they are brand new because he replaced them. I’m holding them in my hand, they’re all boogered up and no way they were replaced. He said he will send them to me and I asked for a dipstick tube o-ring too. I waited about a week and called again, he still hadn’t sent them. I waited a few more days and called again, he finally sent them. But they arrived and I didn’t get the dipstick tube o-ring so I called again. He says I don’t need it and never would send one so I had to get one at the Ford place. Not much money but it’s the principle that I’ve already paid him for the rebuild kit and should have gotten not only that o-ring, but all the leftover parts. Not to mention all the old parts that were piled up with other people’s parts and not easily identified any more.

Then I got the engine back and installed everything, only to find that the converter doesn’t lock up. I had already setup an appointment for a dyno tune and had concerns about whether I should change the tune to leave the converter unlocked in case it’s slipping. I figured I would just go ahead with the tune on an unlocked converter, then pull the tranny for repairs. The only response I got from Darrin was a question about “that’s the converter we sent to Circle D, isn’t it?” No offers to help, no suggestions on the tune, no advice on driving with unlocked converter, nothing. I contacted him twice with no help. After waiting over a week I had somebody else pull the tranny and go through it prior to the dyno tune, in hopes that I would have everything ready for SSHS8. I knew from my own and other’s experiences that the turnaround time would have probably been 6 weeks from Darrin & Circle D anyway. I also got a brand new triple plate converter from PI so we could eliminate that as a possible problem (and not have to wait on the converter rebuild).

So then we see what’s inside the new tranny with about 500-600 miles on it. Start with the new front pump:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/5/1/8/tn_CIMG0948.JPG
Inside the housing are ridges that shouldn’t be possible with a 500-600 mile drive. There is a ridge right on the port where fluid flows to the converter for lockup. Could that have been part of the problem? Was the pump damaged due to debris in the tranny, or was it actually a rebuilt rather than a new pump, or simply a factory defect? Why was a 4R70 pump reinstalled in a high-horsepower application anyway? The 4R70 pump has 3 contact points for the clutch packs and contributes to slipping & clutch burning, the 4R75 pump is much better in that it has a contact ring all the way around the clutch and it has much larger fluid flow orifices for the converter.

Here’s the new planetary gear set:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/5/1/8/tn_CIMG0949.JPG
Once again, the bushing shows more wear than a 100k mile tranny should have.

How about these new steels:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/5/1/8/tn_CIMG0945.JPG
There were at least 3 of them with deep scratch marks across the faces. No way that was done inside the tranny, they had to have been put in that way.

Here’s a used Lentech part:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/5/1/8/tn_CIMG0943.JPG
Who knows whether debris contributed to this, or if it was damaged in the previous tranny, or if it was factory defective, or the tranny was put together with this part needing some polishing? It may have contributed to the bushing damage in the planetary gear set bushing, but who knows?

Another bad bushing, even the wrong kind:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/5/1/8/tn_CIMG0942.JPG
This bushing should be brass instead of aluminum. The aluminum bushing is the older, light duty version. And it’s also galled up.

There’s more, but I’m tired of it. Here’s a suggestion… how about a refund? Then we’ll all know that you stand behind your product. And I’ll start a new thread praising Darrin @ BC Automotive for taking care of his customers.

KillJoy
10-16-2008, 04:46 PM
Send the Tanns to Darrin for HIS rebuild? His way, his parts?

Hell.... I will chip in to off set the cost of shipping....

:up:

KillJoy

PS - I REALLY have nothing in this. I am just wanting two MEMBERS resolve a problem.....

FordNut
10-16-2008, 05:17 PM
If you look at the pictures, you should be able to see that the tranny has already been redone by somebody else so it doesn't need to go to Darrin. If he would have communicated in the beginning this whole thing could have been avoided, but ignoring customer complaints gets us to this point.

Darrin
10-16-2008, 06:40 PM
Ok, you know that there is no way under any sort of sun that you are going to get brand new parts for the price you paid for this. And you also know that you did ask me to re-use what I could. I never said that the parts were defective that I re-used, I did say that I had to re-use stuff that I didn't want to. I would not have re-used any part that I think wouldn't work. I did what you asked and re-used what I could.

You did get new bushings and that sun gear is a new Ford part for a 4R75W. I have the receipt from where I bought it from Andy Mohr Ford. That bushing is Ford's idea and not mine. It came in the new part. If you have a problem with what they used then you need to take that up with them.

You did not at all pay me for any "rebuild kit". That is insane. I buy parts as a rule and not "kits". Kits have cheap parts and are for budget minded approaches and not custom work.

There is apparently a huge difference between what you thought you were getting and what you asked of me and what I actually provided. I provided an upgraded rebuild on a broken transmission where I was asked to re-use whatever parts that I could. You know that when I told you I had to replace parts you balked and you balked hard. When I told you that it might cost $1500 to get done at a minimum there was more than a moment of silence on the phone.

Also, your transmission came to me with a 4R70W gearset. The one I installed was a used set from Teal Automotive and it is from an 04 4R75W. It alone cost me over $200. Go look up the price on a new one and tell me how there is any way possible that I could buy and install a brand new one for what you paid. You obviously know that I replaced the pump and the sun gear. Start adding up the prices on the parts that I had to buy for this and the extra work that I had to do that was well above and beyond just "freshening up" your supposedly good transmission. Lonnie was here when you picked it up and he heard you say that it never made a bad noise or had any real apparent problems.

Also, I used the same style pump that your transmission came to me with. Upgrading that cost more and I didn't want any more of the silent treatment if I had to call you and ask for more money for this job. I don't have any problem with that pump and it is well able to handle your application. Lentech apparently didn't have any problem with it either. It's a good pump.

I flat guarantee you that I use all new steels inless I am using one as a pressure plate. I never use a used steel that comes into contact with the new frictions.

You also know, as I told you, that rear seal that has the cup on it won't cause any more or any less leakage. That cup doesn't contact the yoke at all and actually has 2 holes in it. The seal that is under that attached cup is actually exactly the same. You liked the cup for whatever reason so I gave you a seal with a cup.

And, I told you that I might have mistakenly not replaced the o-ring seals on the line attachment points and how that might have happened. I definitely sent you new ones. People do make mistakes and I freely admit when I do. You saw te total mess that we had to deal with here from those storms. Sorry if I took a few days to get that stuff to you.

My biggest concern here is what ran through your transmission that ate up those bushings. I absolutely swear that they were brand new. I installed them myself. Something happened. Did you replace the transmission cooler and flush out the lines like I told you that you had to since the Lentech transmission failed?

The transmisison didn't look like that when it left my bench. I would never do that to anyone.

And you and I both know that I didn't ignore you. You also know that someone in this thread that bought a transmission talked to you and told you that you should call me but you chose not to. I told him when he asked me if you had that I hadn't heard from you since the one call about the converter not locking up so I assumed that you must have sorted it out.

Most of this is likely just misunderstanding and I can deal with that. Apparently something ran through the system and goofed up the bushings and I would have dealt with that if I had been given the chance. You saying that you properly contacted me on this and that I ignored you is absolutely not true. I have a bunch of customers here and any one of them will tell you that I don't do things that way at all.

And yes, when you showed up there was a lot of damage to the shop and we had stuff everywhere. You can take that one up with God. I didn't plan or want that storm or the accompanying 13 inches of rain that we had with it. We are still trying to get past all of that here. There are families that are still out of their homes from flood damage. Some lost everything they had in that storm. I was lucky. But I will apologize for that as well I guess.

I am sorry that I didn't meet your expectations. I provided the best I could under the circumstances I was given. Something happened to this transmission after it left me and I would really love to know what it was. The new parts that I put in do show damage, but the used parts that I installed are exactly what I said they were going to be. You were not lied to or treated unfairly. You got more of a product than you could have gotten anywhere else for what you paid. I never told you that I was using all new parts at any time. I told you what I was replacing and replaced it. I used new parts where I needed to and good and/or upgraded used parts where it was appropriate. As I said, price out those parts and see what it would cost to replace them with all new parts. It just isn't feasible.

You got that transmission for less than $1300. Who does that? An average stock rebuild costs at least that much and we all know it.

I don't know what to say honestly. Those pics don't really show much of anything other than something ran through pretty much all of the transmission after I rebuilt it.

Darrin

Darrin
10-16-2008, 06:47 PM
Oh, and Lonnie will tell everyone that I offered you all of the old parts out of your transmission but you didn't want them. Nice pushing that off as being my fault as well.

Dude! Why are you acting like this? You are just taking every little piece of anything that you can and trying to use it for your gain regardless of how it hurts the other party. The stuff about the condition of the shop is really the lowest of blows. We got hit hard by a storm and you know it. Thanks for using that in attempt to make me look bad. That's just shameful. Why don't you go kick around the people in Texas. They jsut got hit with a storm and I am pretty sure you can find some messes down there to give someone a hard time about. Maybe you can give them a hard time for how long it's taking them to recover from it and tell everyone how long it takes them to do everything you want of them while they are doing it.

I need to stop because I am getting REALLY pissed off.

Darrin

FordNut
10-16-2008, 07:21 PM
I need to stop because I am getting REALLY pissed off.

Yeah... Me too

Zack
10-16-2008, 07:23 PM
Is it possible the transmission casing is to blame for all the troubles?

Refresh us Brian:
You had 3 Bradshaw Bros. units, 1 lentech, 1 Darrin and 1 Jerry W, right?

There might be a common denominator somewhere in all this mess.

PS, sucks to see 2 guys I like go at it.
did that sound gay?

FordNut
10-16-2008, 07:28 PM
It's kind of irrelevant now, I'm switching to a 4R100. Darrin wanted to air this out in public.

CRUZTAKER
10-17-2008, 04:42 AM
I personally am glad to hear both sides of the story.

Well spoken BOTH of you.

Darrin
10-17-2008, 05:17 AM
I have to bring up a few other points that I have been hashing around.

First of all, Brian, you are supposed to be an engineer, right? What does it tell you that pretty much all of the bushings have radial damage? Anyone that knows this stuff can tell you what that means. It clearly means that solid particulate from something ran through all of them.

Second, I have an interesting water damaged note on that forward sun gear with the bushing that you don't like. I did buy one from Ford but there is something that I can't read about Lentech and then I returned the one from Ford. The note has what looks like measurements and it appears that the shaft on the direct drum for that larger stub shaft from the Lentech unit is larger in diameter than the stock one and that the new Ford sun gear wouldn't fit.

So, that sun gear with the "old inferior" bushing came from Lentech and I had no choice to use it because you wanted to keep that stuff.

So lets play a little game here with the rest of the people reading this. We have radial damage to pretty much all of the bushings. I explained what that type of damage means, but who knows why they all have it? Where does that mean that the particulates that caused the damage came from?

So we have covered the "NEW" parts. The initial price quoted was for a refresh on a supposedly good transmission. When I opened it I found a LOT of trouble and had to replae several things that I had no way to plan for from what I was told. For the price that I was limited to on this we all know that I couldn't install a brand new pump and gearset.

I get bashed for that.

I did replace the bushings and bearings. I did install all new clutch frictions and steels, except for maybe using a used steel or 2 for pressure plates that only provide the space I need for clutch clearance and do not contact the new frictions at all.

I get bashed for that.

I bought a new sun gear but didn't use it because I had to use the part from Lentech since it was needed to re-use the 'heavy duty' direct drum and stub shaft from Lentech.

I get bashed for that.

I replaced the pump with the exact same type of pump that came to me in the transmission.

I get bashed for that.

Brian is really a pretty sharp guy. He is an engineer and that tells me that he should definitely know what causes the type of damage that he showed us in his pics on those bushings. Yet, he tried to use those pictures to make me look bad instead of explaining how it really must have happened.

Interesting.

Something stinks. Look at the things he has bashed me for. Damage to bushings caused by crap that ran through the transmission after I built it. Saying that I used "old" and "inferior" parts when those parts are either the exact same parts that he insisted that I re-use or exact replacements of what was in the transmission when it came to me.

And then, jabbing at me becasue the shop got damaged in a series of severe storms.

Yeah, very nice.

Darrin

FordNut
10-17-2008, 05:31 AM
Not a Jab at you for the shop being damaged, just a comment that you left a newly built tranny sitting around with open holes in the case so trash could get in it... Yeah, damage from foreign materials. And none of this would have ever been brought out or even seen if you had responded to customer complaints instead of ignoring it. YOU brought this on yourself.

As for your comments about the cooler and lines, yes, it's all new and was flushed out and there is an inline filter in place. As soon as I got the tranny home, I put covers and plugs on all the open fittings. If the damage was from foreign materials they most likely came from your shop.

FordNut
10-17-2008, 05:36 AM
And as for the old parts, what would be the point in taking "my" old parts when it took 3 tries to just show me the correct set of plates and 2 different switch assemblies just in case the one wasn't mine and was a bad one... Who knows which transmission the box of parts would have been from.

FordNut
10-17-2008, 05:49 AM
And ALL of the damage was not radial. The steels had deep scratches across the surface. They catch your fingernail as you rub across it. There were several of them, not just the surfaces that didn't contact friction plates. Obviously it was put together like that.

Darrin
10-17-2008, 06:23 AM
The radial damage I am talking about it to the bushings and you know it. Why are you trying to steer attention away from that?

I am not buying it that I had steels in there that had scratches like that on friction surfaces. On the extreme budget builds I will re-use good used steels, but not on a performance transmission.

Brian, I talked to you every single time you called me and you know it. If there is one thing that people anywhere can and will tell anyone, it's that I talk to my customers. I may not always be able to tell them what they want to hear and that might piss some off, but I talk to them every time.

I know that some of what I had to tell you pissed you off. Maybe that's why you didn't call me. I don't know.

And we both know that a member in this thread asked you to call me and talk to me but you refused. He talked to me about it and I hope he will chime in here because I don't deserve this crap.

My phone number is 317-514-0816. It is a Sprint wireless phone with detailed billing. I can look at the bills and tell you who called and when. I also save my messages. When did you call that I ignored you? My phone answers even if I don't so it will show on your bill that you called. Did you leave me a message if you called and I didn't answer?

No, you didn't. You called once and complained about no lockup and then NEVER called me back.

Everyone knows that I am hard to get to by email and PM but that I answer the phone myself and take the time to talk to everyone. Regardless of whether they are a major jerk or not. If I don't want to talk to anyone I will tell them to leave me alone and then ignore them, but I NEVER do that to any of my customers.

Everyone knows that. If you called me right now I would pick up the phone.

If you want to bash me then please do it with something that I actually did wrong, not because you are pissed off that you have spent so much on your car. Go take that out on someone else. I don't deserve thisfrom you.

Darrin

Darrin
10-17-2008, 06:35 AM
Oh, and the most important thing. As an engineer you should know this and I even led you to it.

Dirt that "falls" into the case cannot run throgh the transmission like that. The pressure from fluid will keep it out of the bushing areas even if it's floating around in the case. It goes into the pan where the fluid gets filtered before it's circulated.

For there to be damage on basically all of the bushing surfaces like your pictures show then that particulate could not have come from dust "falling" into the horizontal holes in the sides of the transmission.

Also, your transmission wasn't in the part of the shop that had anything falling on it. You know that I brought it out before you picked it up.

Why are you trying to do this? Logically what you are saying shows that you are just pissed and trying to make me look bad. You are working on perception and what you are saying isn't based on good fact.

Please stop.

Darrin

Darrin
10-17-2008, 06:37 AM
I am done. I am going to work. This is crap that I dont deserve and I am not wasting any more of my time on it.

Go be pissed off at someone else. You think you can kick me jsut because I am here and you know that I will defend myself. Grow up.

FordNut
10-17-2008, 07:17 AM
And ALL of the damage was not radial. The steels had deep scratches across the surface. They catch your fingernail as you rub across it. There were several of them, not just the surfaces that didn't contact friction plates. Obviously it was put together like that.

I watched it being taken apart, inspected, and re-assembled. The steels were indeed damaged like that and were replaced with new ones.


I am not buying it that I had steels in there that had scratches like that on friction surfaces. On the extreme budget builds I will re-use good used steels, but not on a performance transmission.

But since you would NEVER put parts like that in a transmission I don't have a clue how they got in there.

Darrin
10-17-2008, 09:57 AM
I don't know what happened to the steels. As far as I know they were not like that when I installed them. I swear to God that I didn't, but even if they were installed that way, other shops often take abrasives to the steels and leave much more 'damage' than that. You can do that and it really won't hurt anything. Steels are so cheap that I don't re-use them other than on the $500 super low buck rebuilds, just like everyone else does. I never 'buff' them up though. I only re-use them if they are perfectly good as is and normally as a pressure plate.

I honestly have no idea how that part happened. Maybe it was my fault. I don't know.

But we both know that the bushing damage is from crap running through the transmission. Something either came apart or was left over. If that something was inside the transmission then the damage wouldn't be throughout like it is. Internal damage or junk would only leave bushings like that from the failure, or leftover, back. You know that I rebuilt that pump. I didn't see anything in the pump that could have done that and it was completely taken apart, cleaned, inspected and rebuilt using new seals.

I know you are pissed, but can you please try and be reasonable here. Lonnie and Chris both know that I was digging to try and find what the problem could be with the converter not locking up after you called me about it. You and I know that you never called me back after that and that I never had any idea that there was this type of problem until I read this thread. Anyone knowing me knows that someone would have heard about it if I had any sort of idea. All I had was your call with no call back and then someone telling me that they told you that you needed to call me and asking me if you did. I said no and that I thought you must have got it sorted out. He gave no details and left it at that. Now I see why.

Man, I can't fix what I don't know I need to fix. You and everyone else knows that I would have fixed that for you. I don't know what we would have done on the converter and I talked to Chris so I am going to leave that battle up to him if you so choose to make an issue out of that as well.

I am pissed that you are only telling things in a way to prove your points. You are leaving out info and not exactly telling it the way it is. You know the delays were not my fault. You know that I told you that you could pick up the transmission whenever you wanted and you decided to wait on the converter. I offered to have it drop shipped. You know that I told you your transmission hadn't been sitting out in that part of the shop where the damage was even though the old parts were and you know that only junk parts were. I brought the transmission out for you to pick up and that was the only reason it was there.

Be pissed if you want, but please be fair. Try to make me look stupid and I will make you look stupid. Act like a total jerk to me and I will treat you like a total jerk. Or just talk to me and I will talk to you.

I give what I get.

I am sorry that things went this way. I swear to you that I did exactly what I told you I was going to do and nothing short of that in any way. But you didn't pay for a fully built transmission from me. That isn't my product and doesn't have the parts in it that I use on my transmissions. You paid to get yours fixed and apparently something went wrong in the process. I don't know what it is for sure, but I honestly feel that it really isn't anything I did, or didn't do. Something definitely happened and I see why you are pissed. You have been through this too many times. I know that and understand.

However, my opinion is that I wasn't given any sort of fair shot at helping to straighten this out. A few here can vouch for the fact that I bend over backwards to correct any problem even if it isn't mine as long as I am treated properly. That is how I built my business and that will never change.

Lets both back off for a bit and think about it. We are both typing mad and that won't do anyone any good other than get a whole lot of biased info out there.

Darrin

Darrin
10-17-2008, 08:26 PM
Brian,

Just a curiosity question. Why are you going to a 4R100?

Darrin

FordNut
10-17-2008, 08:52 PM
Brian,

Just a curiosity question. Why are you going to a 4R100?

Darrin

1. The 4R70 has been pulled for rebuild/repair 9 times. I've spent between $12-$14k on it. I have no confidence that it can do the job.
2. A built 4R100 can stand up to 1000 hp wheel-standing Lightnings and 1500 ft-lb diesel trucks for many years, many hundreds of thousands of miles, and hundreds of 1/4-mile passes.
3. The F150 guys with 4X4 or high-power or heavy-towing setups commonly swap to the 4R100 after annual replacements of 4R70's.
4. That's what some of the guys are putting into the new GT500's rather than the 4R70 or 5R55.
5. I'll have a standalone tranny controller so I don't have to worry about an engine tuner getting my shift schedule screwed up, which commonly happens.
6. The weight (4500 lb) and power (686 hp/612 tq) I'm putting down now is borderline on being too much for the 4R70, and this is on 16 psi/16 degrees/pump gas. No room to grow, even though the engine can easily make more and hold together.

Darrin
10-18-2008, 06:06 AM
Fair enough.

The only rebuttal I am going to have to any of those points is that I can hook you up with almost a dozen guys with very heavy trucks that are over 650rwhp and running a 4R7x series transmission. Most of them are 4 wheel drive actually. Darn heavy trucks. None of those transmissions have come back. All of them are still running. At least 2 are over 3 years old now.

So I only really disagree with saying that they won't hold up. Other than that all of your points are valid. You have had bad luck with your transmission and that is obvious.

I wish I had the opportunity that Jerry had of having you here with me when I took yours apart initially. Maybe then, with you seeing what I saw, we could have just started over and built what I knew you really needed for your car. That would have been my product instead of a repair of a build from another vendor.

Unfortunately we never got there. I really wish you would have given me the chance.

What you got wasn't one of my transmissions and everyone needs to be completely clear on that point. So, I am going to repeat it pretty much every post I make in regards to this and every time I talk to anyone about it. Left completely to me I would have started over from scratch and built you one of my transmissions.

If we could have gotten past whatever communication issue there was then this would have turned out differently. I would have gladly started completely over and built you one of my transmissions and only charged you whatever it cost me to do it in parts. I wasn't given that opportunity.

I don't think it's the case itself Zack. I looked it over thoroughly and pressure tested everything once it was put back together. The transmission was tight and everything worked properly. I think it's pretty clear that something was either left over in the system somewhere in front of the pump or something came apart either in the pump or in front of it. I will never know for sure unfortunately.

Something is obviously not going right here for Brian though because nobody else has had this much trouble as far as I know. That would be enough to make anyone have a bad attitude about it and I can definitely understand that. I can see why he wants to go to something different. Most people would.

Unfortunately I seem to be the most available one to take some frustration out on I think. LOL

Darrin

Bradley G
10-18-2008, 11:39 AM
Good thread!
Not because Brian has had major trans issues, and Darrin fell short of delighting Brian.
The forum has not been a vehicle for dispute(s) and constructive critisizm.
The problem can best be resolved with parties that keep the line of communication open.
Thanks for sharing guys !
It is especially difficult when tempers swell and thinking gets jilted.
Hope you guys are able to come to a mutual arrangement that is satisfactory for both!

TAKEDOWN
10-18-2008, 02:06 PM
Both parties handled this issue professionally, no threads were closed or swept under the rug in hopes the problem would disappear.

Darrin
10-18-2008, 05:44 PM
Both parties handled this issue professionally, no threads were closed or swept under the rug in hopes the problem would disappear.
I absolutely HATE that kind of crap. It's nothing but game playing. Life happens. People disagree and argue. Feelings get hurt and people get swayed by emotion and say things that they know they shouldn't.

We are all adults here. I may not agree with Brian, but I do respect him and that he has the right to his own opinions.

I also wish it had not gone this way, but it did and I don't mind that everyone can read it. There is nothing to hide. People can read all of it and make of it what they will. It's a WHOLE lot better than a bunch of whispering and rumor behind the scenes. Nobody gets a fair or accurate story that way because they often hear only one side.

It's also very important that people get to share their experiences both good and bad. That's the whole point of these forums really, isn't it?

Darrin

Dennis Reinhart
04-06-2011, 08:13 AM
Ordered new trans from darren at BC Automotive (getting ready for atlanta)
(3700 stall torq muti disk)


Darrin will take care of you and I have one in my car as well.

J-MAN
04-06-2011, 09:44 AM
Darrin will take care of you and I have one in my car as well.

Glad to hear he's still in business. Guess my multiple PM's with no response must have gotten lost in the nether regions.

RacerX
04-06-2011, 09:51 AM
??? October of 2008??? Sooooo... How's the new tranny?

Dennis Reinhart
04-06-2011, 10:03 AM
Glad to hear he's still in business. Guess my multiple PM's with no response must have gotten lost in the nether regions.

I guess your phone is broke he is busy and does not allways get here.

LANDY
04-06-2011, 11:23 AM
??? October of 2008??? Sooooo... How's the new tranny?
was thinking the same,i know that tranny has been down the track plenty times.

J-MAN
04-06-2011, 02:17 PM
I guess your phone is broke he is busy and does not allways get here.

My phone works fine, but thanks for your concern. I honestly thought he went out of business as multiple PM's over a four month period went unanswered. You do know that a notice is sent from the site to the email address of the recipient that they have a PM don't you? Not trying to create a problem, just a comment.

Dennis Reinhart
04-06-2011, 03:40 PM
My phone works fine, but thanks for your concern. I honestly thought he went out of business as multiple PM's over a four month period went unanswered. You do know that a notice is sent from the site to the email address of the recipient that they have a PM don't you? Not trying to create a problem, just a comment.


No Sir and if I came across wrong I apologize, I am on my way to Louisville and I just sent a quick response. Darrin is as busy as I am and I do not always get PM's I do answer every phone call, and with something as important as a transmission phone contact is far better than trying to discuss a high performance transmission by PM. So again I am just trying to help have a great weekend.:beer:

J-MAN
04-06-2011, 04:16 PM
No Sir and if I came across wrong I apologize, I am on my way to Louisville and I just sent a quick response. Darrin is as busy as I am and I do not always get PM's I do answer every phone call, and with something as important as a transmission phone contact is far better than trying to discuss a high performance transmission by PM. So again I am just trying to help have a great weekend.:beer:
When it comes to what parts were installed in my trans and what TC was installed I want it in print just to avoid any misunderstandings on my part. Just the way I am. Thanks for your help.

Have a safe trip!!

MarauderTJA
04-06-2011, 08:52 PM
Darrin built my transmission and it has worked flawlessly for me without "ever" a problem. I have the highest respect for him and his work and would not hesitate what-so-ever to have him built me another one.

ts-pa
04-07-2011, 08:23 PM
I have about 90k on my car since it was rebuilt with DR swap (Aug'07) and Darrin's level three transmission (Dec'07). I will admit that I'm not easy on cars either, but this DD has held up very well considering my abuse. Works almost like how it was when it was first installed. Very happy with mine! I do the dilution method of draining the trans pan and topping off every other oil change.