5.0 CARB to EFI Advice needed...

[High-C]

I am thinking about changing my carburated 1985 Mustang GT to EFI... I want to keep the stock look and thought about using the Mass-Flo EFI setup but the cost is outside of my budget. I can find used late model EFI parts and stock computers and I ran across this on EBAY:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories_Car-Truck-Parts-Accessories__FUEL-INJECTION-MUSTANG-CONTROLLER-FORD-EFI-SYSTEMS-INC_W0QQitemZ190238636053QQddn ZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQad nZCarQ20Q26Q20TruckQ20PartsQ20 Q26Q20AccessoriesQQddiZ2811QQa diZ2865QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m190238636053&_trksid=p3756.m14.l1318

Does anyone know if this computer will work in place of a stock Ford EEC? I swear that I am not completely clueless... ;) Just looking for some advice from the more experienced masses. Any ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance. - Chris

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

It's a piggy back computer. Meaning it is not the computer itself. If you are asking these questions, that is not looking good for an EFI swap.

[Breadfan]

Why not shop around for a parts car or used EFI setup?

You can get a MAF based EFI for a 5.0 from a 89-93 5.0L Mustang. You should be able to get all the parts you need to convert such as wiring harness, intake manifolds, injectors, rails, intake tube, throttle body, MAF, sensors, computer, etc.

Also you may need to do a fuel pump swap there may be some fuel system changes from carb'ed to EFI.

The good news is this is a popular conversion so you should be able to find plenty of resources online to guide you.

Bear in mind 86-88 EFI setups were speed density not MAF so there are some minor differences.

Are you still in N. VA part time?

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I did my Camaro based on a GM TPI setup, but I also used an aftermarket intake and some speed parts for the EFI stuff. Some of it is junkyard too. It took a lot of custom tuning to get it to run well with a heavily modified engine. The stock setups will run "okay" with a stock ECU with no tuning, but you will leave a ton of power on the table unless you are willing to invest in the tools to log w/ a wideband O2, and program it yourself. You can get the tune very far off much easier with EFI than you can with a carb. There are only a few things you can directly adjust w/ a carb. With a factory EFI, it has sooooooo many parameters that when you start guessing, it can get hairy pretty fast.

Like Ford, GM used speed density some years and MAF other years too. The MAF setups will be more friendly with a modified combo and a bad tune, than speed density will. Speed density measures MAP pressure whereas MAF actually measures the amount of air going into the engine, so speed density will get pretty far off pretty quickly as you start substituting non stock engine parts.

[Breadfan]

Do you have this book yet, if not I recommend it, it's not just a fun read but a very handy guide when dealing with Fox's throughout 79 - 93, it'll help in part ID'ing and conversion too by being a good solid guide from year to year.

http://www.amazon.com/Official-Ford-Mustang-5-0-Performance/dp/0837602106/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1_rsrsrs0

[High-C]

It's a piggy back computer. Meaning it is not the computer itself. If you are asking these questions, that is not looking good for an EFI swap.

That's what I thought but I was just checking to make sure that it was not a stand alone unit. FYI... Everything looks fine for anything that I want to do, including an EFI swap... I was just asking advice from anyone who may have done something similar to the same type of vehicle. Thanks for the friendly encouragement.

[High-C]

Are you still in N. VA part time?

Yup, Still around... We should get the Mustangs out for a cruise some day soon. It's getting an 8.8 with 3.73's next week. I know all of the parts that I need for the stock setup, it is similar to what we did on the 73 Bronco. I probably just need to shell out the cash for something different. You can't really piece together what I am trying to accomplish I guess... 4bbl Throttle Body on a FEI converted carb style intake manifold... Just like the Mass-Flo setup. There's no hurry, I'm just planning / thinking ahead and the car runs fine as is.

[High-C]

Do you have this book yet, if not I recommend it, it's not just a fun read but a very handy guide when dealing with Fox's throughout 79 - 93, it'll help in part ID'ing and conversion too by being a good solid guide from year to year.

http://www.amazon.com/Official-Ford-Mustang-5-0-Performance/dp/0837602106/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1_rsrsrs0

That looks like a good read... I have this on the way as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___FORD-302-351-FUEL-INJECTION-CONVERSION-INSTRUCTIONS_W0QQitemZ28024674 9372QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20Access oriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItem? hash=item280246749372&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318

[Breadfan]

Yeah I'd be up for that, hopefully when it's not 95 out my AC in my 1990 doesn't work - it's there, but has a leak, too late in the summer to bother fixing it this year! I'm gonna need a clutch soon too, apparently Ford's OEM clutch starts to get a bit weak after 205,000 miles... *sigh*

Sounds like you want EFI while retaining the underhood look, right? Sounds like you want muliport EFI with a round air cleaner...I'm not sure if Ford had anything like that OEM. I do know 85 auto's were CFI but that's like thorttle body injection, probably better cold start and driveability but otherwise not sure it'd be worth all the work...

I do know Dodge used 4bbl throttle body manifolds with round air cleaners on top but still had multi port injection, just don't think Ford did anything like this OEM so aftermarket may be it for SBF.

[Breadfan]

That looks like a good read... I have this on the way as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___FORD-302-351-FUEL-INJECTION-CONVERSION-INSTRUCTIONS_W0QQitemZ28024674 9372QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20Access oriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItem? hash=item280246749372&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318

That looks like a good read!

I'd like to get an older 4-eye, like an 82, I would eithe put in a hot motor with a carb or convert to later model EFI.

[High-C]

Yeah I'd be up for that, hopefully when it's not 95 out my AC in my 1990 doesn't work - it's there, but has a leak, too late in the summer to bother fixing it this year!

Mine hasn't worked for years... I may have the parts that you need though. I think I'm just gonna delete the a/c anyways and I have a brand new condenser & pump etc... We should talk about it.

[Stranger in the Black Sedan]

I didn't mean to be discouraging, but having gone through a full fledged carb to factory EFI (granted, on a GM car but the systems are not dissimilar) swap before, it is not plug and play by far and not for the faint of heart. I certainly hope you plan on buying the tools to datalog and tune if the motor is at all not stock. You said "thinking about changing..." An EFI conversion is going to require total commitment to going all the way. Once you get started, it's going to be a disaster until it's totally done. If the car isn't driven much, it is probably not worth the effort. I gained massively improved cold start manners, improved throttle response, and definitely gas mileage. But the amount of time I invested tuning and logging probably exceeds how much I drive the car in general. It was definitely not at all cost or time effective. I wanted the "cool" factor of sitting in the staging lanes at the 1/4 mile, having a laptop plugged into my 1977 model year car, with a display reading out my engine sensors. It didn't seem like the EFI swap would cost all that much with a lot of re used stock parts, but after adding up all the missing parts and aftermarket add ons I found necessary along the way, it was not at all an inexpensive project. Just recounting experience from a "been there done that" scenario. I probably would not do it again for a weekend warrior car that does not get driven much. When EFI is dialed in well though it is awesome.

[larryo340]

Instead of factory you could always go the aftermarket route like this Accel DFI set-up up on a friends '57 Chevy. I'm sure there must be a smaller set up available. You could keep the 4BBL intake, just add the injector bungs.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/larryo340/SIZY5fW3mlI/AAAAAAAAEaA/1iK5bnzcnOM/100_1554.JPG?imgmax=576


http://lh4.ggpht.com/larryo340/SIZY5rpz1KI/AAAAAAAAEaI/tvmZyWV8z1o/100_1609.JPG?imgmax=576

[JACook]

Not sure why you're wanting to change to EFI. The original factory carb on your
(and my) '85 GT is one of the best street carbs anyone has ever made, ever. Apart
from a good rebuild, using Genuine Holley parts, there are only a handful of tweaks
required to correct a couple lean spots, and it's golden.

Whatever you decide you want to do, I would suggest heading over to the Four
Eyed Pride site, and doing some searches. Lotta guys there that have covered
this ground before on '79-'85s. http://vb.foureyedpride.com

I'll probably tell you over there not to do it too... ;)

[Joe Walsh]

Holley used to make the 'Projection' unit which was a fuel injection system that looked like a 4 barrel carb and mounted on any standard intake manifold.
I think that thay changed the name to the 'Commander' fuel injection system.
It is not as good as a multi-port EFI system, but it fits under the OEM air cleaner and looks really close to a stock 4 bbl set-up.
I was looking at this to upgrade the cold start, drivability, and fuel mileage for my 85 GT.

[larryo340]

Holley used to make the 'Projection' unit which was a fuel injection system that looked like a 4 barrel carb and mounted on any standard intake manifold.
I think that thay changed the name to the 'Commander' fuel injection system.
It is not as good as a multi-port EFI system, but it fits under the OEM air cleaner and looks really close to a stock 4 bbl set-up.
I was looking at this to upgrade the cold start, drivability, and fuel mileage for my 85 GT.

I put the Holley Projection on my '85 Bronco, biggest pain was putting in a return line to the fuel tank.
It had alot more low end torque, but the carb was faster on highway.